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Old 25th March 2013, 10:18 AM   #1
Bob001
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How do roofies work?

In the lengthy thread about the Steubenville rape, there is a discussion about the possiblity that the victim was drugged. Question: How do rohypnal and ghb work? The average person in a social situation (maybe not a teen at a kegger) sips a beer or nurses a cocktail over an extended time. If you were served a standard drink with a standard dose of one of these drugs and you sipped it over, say, 30 minutes or so, would you begin to feel some effects of the drug before you imbibed the whole drink? Or are the effects delayed, so that you would be likely to swallow the whole dose before your alarms went off? In one account I saw, a woman said that she and her date had both been drugged at a party, but he was able to get them both away before it was too late. What was he experiencing? Aside from never drinking anything from a container that you didn't unseal yourself, can you recognize signs that you've been drugged before you are helpless?
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Old 25th March 2013, 10:31 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
In the lengthy thread about the Steubenville rape, there is a discussion about the possiblity that the victim was drugged. Question: How do rohypnal and ghb work? The average person in a social situation (maybe not a teen at a kegger) sips a beer or nurses a cocktail over an extended time. If you were served a standard drink with a standard dose of one of these drugs and you sipped it over, say, 30 minutes or so, would you begin to feel some effects of the drug before you imbibed the whole drink? Or are the effects delayed, so that you would be likely to swallow the whole dose before your alarms went off? In one account I saw, a woman said that she and her date had both been drugged at a party, but he was able to get them both away before it was too late. What was he experiencing? Aside from never drinking anything from a container that you didn't unseal yourself, can you recognize signs that you've been drugged before you are helpless?
First - GHB and roofies are hardly ever used at all. People who are on them, though, become more susceptible to suggestion. So, if the person who had drugged you was saying "Oh, come on, drink some more! You've got to catch up!", you'd probably do it. Hell, in bars, people do that anyway.
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Old 25th March 2013, 10:33 AM   #3
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There is a lot of uncertainty regarding the frequency with which such drugs are actually employed for the purposes of rape or assault. There have been several studies demonstrating that almost nobody (out of the sample studied) who believed they had been drugged, actually had been. So the use of "roofies" for rape may fall into the "urban legend" category.

I think what is most likely is that such drugs are used very rarely, but that because they have entered the popular consciousness, people who drink too much, too quickly, and are caught off guard by their loss of awareness, often leap to the conclusion that they have been drugged. The reality is that alcohol can just as easily cause blackouts or loss of memory, especially when many drinks are consumed in a short period of time. There have certainly been occasions in the past where I over-imbibed and could have easily convinced myself I had been drugged, if I hadn't known better. Sometimes people don't want to take responsibility for their loss of control being the result of their own behaviors, and find it more comfortable to assume that it was the work of some nefarious drink-drugger.

I realize that this is not directly addressing your question, but I thought it was relevant.

ETA: RemieV beat me to it. There seems to be the perception among many females that they are in constant danger of being drugged, and that bars are full of men waiting to slip something into their drinks. Most evidence indicates that this is far from being the case. And for a would-be date rapist, plying a woman with alcohol can have almost the same effect, while being legal.

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Old 25th March 2013, 10:42 AM   #4
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In terms of the victim in the case you referenced, based on what I saw of the photos and evidence, her behavior and state appeared entirely consistent with what I have observed in inexperienced teenagers drinking well beyond what would be considered reasonable. No need to assume drugging of any kind. When I was a teen, I saw several individuals passed out to the extent that she was, to the point that they could easily have been carried around like a sack of potatoes the way she was.
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Old 25th March 2013, 11:15 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by RemieV View Post
First - GHB and roofies are hardly ever used at all. .....
They may not be widely used, but I don't think anybody considers them urban legends, and responsible authorities warn about them. So even if the odds are low that somebody is going to slip you something at a neighbor's party or a neighborhood bar, the question is, if it does happen can you recognize it in time to respond?
http://www.womenshealth.gov/publicat...rape-drugs.cfm
http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/wo...heets/date.htm
http://www.brown.edu/Student_Service...rape_drugs.php
http://health.columbia.edu/topics/al...drugs/daterape
http://www.politicususa.com/tips-wom...lice-dept.html
http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Rohypnol.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Hydroxybutyric_acid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohypnol
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Old 25th March 2013, 11:21 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
They may not be widely used, but I don't think anybody considers them urban legends, and responsible authorities warn about them. So even if the odds are low that somebody is going to slip you something at a neighbor's party or a neighborhood bar, the question is, if it does happen can you recognize it in time to respond?
http://www.womenshealth.gov/publicat...rape-drugs.cfm
http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/wo...heets/date.htm
http://www.brown.edu/Student_Service...rape_drugs.php
http://health.columbia.edu/topics/al...drugs/daterape
http://www.politicususa.com/tips-wom...lice-dept.html
http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Rohypnol.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Hydroxybutyric_acid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohypnol
People who suffer ill effects from GHB are much more likely to have dosed themselves. From the reading I've done, it's more like having the warning on a hair dryer for that miniscule number of people who decides to use it in the shower.

Roofies and GHB got tons of play in the media, and I think that the guidelines for avoidance were brought in to quell the fear.
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Old 25th March 2013, 11:22 AM   #7
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I've been spiked with Rophenol or something very similar once.
I was on about my third drink, about 10m later I felt quite drunk and then next thing I knew I woke up on my friends floor.
Apparently I was saying that I was fine to get home because some dude was going to give me a lift as I was on his way.
Just as well my friends were there to step in!
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Old 25th March 2013, 11:30 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Primus View Post
I've been spiked with Rophenol or something very similar once.
I was on about my third drink, about 10m later I felt quite drunk and then next thing I knew I woke up on my friends floor.
Apparently I was saying that I was fine to get home because some dude was going to give me a lift as I was on his way.
Just as well my friends were there to step in!
I know one person who was POSSIBLY legitimately drugged. And that's four years into living in Vegas.

We were both at a local bar. The person I was with was a guy, and our drinks were some pink fruity thing (for him) and straight whiskey (for me).

We got up to pick out songs on the jukebox, hung out for a while, then hopped the wall and walked back to my apartment, where his car was parked. He walked me to the door, and I went in and went to bed.

He woke up the next morning, still in the car, still in the parking lot, with the key in the ignition, the headlights on, and his door still ajar. Nine hours had passed. Basically, he got in the car and went to start it and passed out before he could even close the door. This was totally disproportionate to the amount of alcohol consumed. When he woke up, he had no clue where he was, how he got there, and had very little memory of the previous night.

He wasn't acting strangely prior to that - not super drunk or anything. It's possible he had his fill before we met up, or it's possible someone drugged him.
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Old 25th March 2013, 11:39 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by RemieV View Post
People who suffer ill effects from GHB are much more likely to have dosed themselves. From the reading I've done, it's more like having the warning on a hair dryer for that miniscule number of people who decides to use it in the shower.

Roofies and GHB got tons of play in the media, and I think that the guidelines for avoidance were brought in to quell the fear.
I don't think this is really true in all scenarios. A buddy of mine managed some moderately successful night clubs back in the late 90's and early 00's. He instructed his bouncers to confiscate eye-drop bottles from people when they were entering. The customers could have the bottles back if they would apply the eye-drops to themselves. Few did so: roofie in the eye could be dangerous. Several dozen bottles were confiscated each weekend.

It was probably only about 1% of the men who came through the door, but its still a disturbing amount.

Teaching women (and men) to protect their drinks is a good idea.
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Old 25th March 2013, 12:02 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Newtons Bit View Post
I don't think this is really true in all scenarios. A buddy of mine managed some moderately successful night clubs back in the late 90's and early 00's. He instructed his bouncers to confiscate eye-drop bottles from people when they were entering. The customers could have the bottles back if they would apply the eye-drops to themselves. Few did so: roofie in the eye could be dangerous. Several dozen bottles were confiscated each weekend.

It was probably only about 1% of the men who came through the door, but its still a disturbing amount.

Teaching women (and men) to protect their drinks is a good idea.
Sure. It's a good idea. But the more likely scenario is that you're protecting it from spit from someone you offended and didn't know it.

More than just roofies and GHB can be in liquid form, and be bad to just toss in your eyes. Cocaine, LSD, PCP, Methadone to name a few. I would find it many worlds more likely that the "eyedrops" were LSD.

Additionally, people do take both roofies and GHB for fun at clubs. Even if that's what was in the bottle, it doesn't necessarily follow that it was for anyone but themselves.
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Old 25th March 2013, 07:01 PM   #11
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I've taken both multiple time recreationally , and I didn't feel prone to being raped. But I wasn't mixing it with alcohol. Onset for GHB as I recall was within 1-2 minutes, similar to alcohol. Roofies hit me in less than 15 minutes, I felt like jello. That was like 15 years ago.

But, seeing a friend take twice the dose of GHB recommended, he was a psychotic emotional mess. We drew kitten whiskers on his face after he passed out, wet with tears and snot. He was crying over the fact he was worried about driving his girlfriend home, it was completely irrational.
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Old 25th March 2013, 10:54 PM   #12
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What is the drug they give EMT's or traumatic rape survivors to erase or limit their memories so the event doesn't impact them as much.

Last edited by Caper; 25th March 2013 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 25th March 2013, 11:33 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
What is the drug they give EMT's or traumatic rape survivors to erase of limit their memories so the event doesn't impact them as much.
*blink*

What?
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Old 25th March 2013, 11:40 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by RemieV View Post
*blink*

What?
I forget what drug it is, but I remember reading an article somewhere about how a certain drug (that I'm pretty sure is also used in date rape) can actually be given right after the trauma event to help erase the event from your memory, thus the event doesn't cause you near as much trauma. I'm just wondering if anyone knows anything about that.
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Old 25th March 2013, 11:59 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
I forget what drug it is, but I remember reading an article somewhere about how a certain drug (that I'm pretty sure is also used in date rape) can actually be given right after the trauma event to help erase the event from your memory, thus the event doesn't cause you near as much trauma. I'm just wondering if anyone knows anything about that.
While there are a few drugs around that will mess up short term memory to an exent none are used as described since effects are unpredictable and it would be somewhat unethical.
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Old 26th March 2013, 02:48 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
I forget what drug it is, but I remember reading an article somewhere about how a certain drug (that I'm pretty sure is also used in date rape) can actually be given right after the trauma event to help erase the event from your memory, thus the event doesn't cause you near as much trauma. I'm just wondering if anyone knows anything about that.
A neuralyzer. (jk)
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Old 26th March 2013, 08:48 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by RemieV View Post
*blink*

What?
That's my reaction as well. Holy **** that'd be crazy.

I think you'd want those people to remember more for investigation purposes.
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Old 27th March 2013, 03:47 AM   #18
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Good morning Caper
Originally Posted by Caper View Post
I forget what drug it is, but I remember reading an article somewhere about how a certain drug (that I'm pretty sure is also used in date rape) can actually be given right after the trauma event to help erase the event from your memory, thus the event doesn't cause you near as much trauma. I'm just wondering if anyone knows anything about that.
Wow. A drug like that would sure cut down on rape and court costs of prosecution.
Victim : " I was raped! "
EMT : " Here, let me give you something to calm you down." "Feel better?"
Victim : " I feel fine. What are you doing here? Oh well I better get going, I 'm already late for work."

Caper, I seem to recall seeing something like that on TV but, not sure about in real life.
But then again an EMT was just here and my memory is a little foggy. Oh well, off to work.
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Old 27th March 2013, 08:10 AM   #19
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All I know is that they took forever to replace the roof and my mom was really angry at them.
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Old 27th March 2013, 08:51 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Halfcentaur View Post
I've taken both multiple time recreationally , and I didn't feel prone to being raped. But I wasn't mixing it with alcohol. Onset for GHB as I recall was within 1-2 minutes, similar to alcohol. Roofies hit me in less than 15 minutes, I felt like jello. That was like 15 years ago.

But, seeing a friend take twice the dose of GHB recommended, he was a psychotic emotional mess. We drew kitten whiskers on his face after he passed out, wet with tears and snot. He was crying over the fact he was worried about driving his girlfriend home, it was completely irrational.
Ya GHB was super quick - i think it being liquid helps speed its absorption... for me, just a few mins as well..

EDIT: and no, I dont think anyone could have taken advantage of me under the influence... still had my wits about me...
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Old 27th March 2013, 01:39 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by RemieV View Post
I know one person who was POSSIBLY legitimately drugged. And that's four years into living in Vegas.

We were both at a local bar. The person I was with was a guy, and our drinks were some pink fruity thing (for him) and straight whiskey (for me).

We got up to pick out songs on the jukebox, hung out for a while, then hopped the wall and walked back to my apartment, where his car was parked. He walked me to the door, and I went in and went to bed.

He woke up the next morning, still in the car, still in the parking lot, with the key in the ignition, the headlights on, and his door still ajar. Nine hours had passed. Basically, he got in the car and went to start it and passed out before he could even close the door. This was totally disproportionate to the amount of alcohol consumed. When he woke up, he had no clue where he was, how he got there, and had very little memory of the previous night.

He wasn't acting strangely prior to that - not super drunk or anything. It's possible he had his fill before we met up, or it's possible someone drugged him.
Of course it's possible he was drugged, but I don't find any particularly compelling evidence in what you've described...I find much more likely to have been caused by the alcohol possibly in combination with a moderate to severe lack of sleep over the preceding days or weeks. He may have just closed his eyes for a minute to pull himself together before driving and dozed off. The alcohol would have made him less susceptible to being woken by noise or light, and he may have just been overly tired.
What you describe is not all that far off from things I've experienced, in situations where I am certain I was not drugged.

ETA: I just remembered, a very similar thing occurred to a friend of mine. I was waiting tables at the time in a restaurant, and he came in for a meal. I served him a couple of drinks (which I had not drugged), and his food, and then he went out to the parking lot to drive home. The next morning he woke up, still in the parking lot, with no other cars left there. I had finished my shift at 11pm and hadn't noticed his car still parked there. All he'd had was the two or 3 drinks I'd served him, and a week of less sleep than was optimal.

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Old 27th March 2013, 02:01 PM   #22
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Old 28th March 2013, 01:54 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
I forget what drug it is, but I remember reading an article somewhere about how a certain drug (that I'm pretty sure is also used in date rape) can actually be given right after the trauma event to help erase the event from your memory, thus the event doesn't cause you near as much trauma. I'm just wondering if anyone knows anything about that.
Could you be thinking of propranolol?

"Experiments indicate propranolol also blocks the effect of adrenaline upon areas of the brain involved in memory formation, including the amygdala. It seems to disconnect emotion from memory. "
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/neur..._drugs_sd.html

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