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Multivac · 6th June 2012, 02:47 AM

Both of my daughters have been given diluted wine or beer, on a few special occasions, since they were old enough to express an interest in alcohol. My 19 year old, as a legal adult, drinks an occasional cider but has a generally responsible attitude to alcohol.

I believe that the main reason we have so many binge drinkers in the UK most people are not exposed to alcohol in a controlled way when they are young. The attitude is very different from the attitude towards alcohol in mainland Europe where kids are allowed small amounts of alcohol with Sunday lunch.

IMHO introducing kids to alchol in a controlled way does two things:

1) It puts them off alcohol as they won't like the taste.
2) It demystifies alcohol.

Flo · 6th June 2012, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by Multivac

Both of my daughters have been given diluted wine or beer, on a few special occasions, since they were old enough to express an interest in alcohol. My 19 year old, as a legal adult, drinks an occasional cider but has a generally responsible attitude to alcohol.

I believe that the main reason we have so many binge drinkers in the UK most people are not exposed to alcohol in a controlled way when they are young. The attitude is very different from the attitude towards alcohol in mainland Europe where kids are allowed small amounts of alcohol with Sunday lunch.

Both my brother and I have been given minute quantities of alcohol on special occasions since we were approximately 12, like most of our friends in France and Switzerland. I enjoy the occasional beer and good wine with a meal, my brother started drinking irresponsibly from age 18, and it got worse and worse. Binge drinking and alcohol related problems do exist in mainland Europe ...

Quote:

IMHO introducing kids to alchol in a controlled way does two things:

1) It puts them off alcohol as they won't like the taste.
2) It demystifies alcohol.

For some, not all, unfortunately.

davefoc · 6th June 2012, 03:13 AM

And wonderful Flo was one of the people that my daughter has shared a glass of wine with. But by the time Flo shared that wine with our daughter she was a University student in Grenoble studying abroad for a year.

Just a little update Flo: She's getting married this July and is about to graduate from UCLA with a masters in public policy (or something like that).

I hope all goes well for you. Meeting you in Geneva remains one of the high points of our European trip.

-Dave

Flo · 6th June 2012, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by davefoc

And wonderful Flo was one of the people that my daughter has shared a glass of wine with. But by the time Flo shared that wine with our daughter she was a University student in Grenoble studying abroad for a year.

Just a little update Flo: She's getting married this July and is about to graduate from UCLA with a masters in public policy (or something like that).

I hope all goes well for you. Meeting you in Geneva remains one of the high points of our European trip.

-Dave

Thanks for the update, please convey my congratulations and best wishes to her. I hope she has plans to introduce her husband to Europe and its wines some day, Vic's family and I will be only too happy to help !

Note that you're welcome too ...

Earthborn · 6th June 2012, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dragoonster

No. $150 a month isn't a big change. To poor people.

Yes, it is.

Quote:

LOL. Even in America this is not so. And so much more not so in other countries.

In the USA this may not be so, but it is in many other countries.

Quote:

Just to check/verify on your own--you should go into an ER and request a prescription for a drug that would make you not drink alcohol.

I am not talking about a drug that makes me not drink alcohol, but if such a drug exists I could very likely get it for much less than $150 a month, should I need it. It is not something the ER is for.

Quote:

And let's just say that no, you don't have "insurance", which costs money.

I don't live in the US, so my health insurance is way less than $150 a month, it is mandatory, and it covers all psychiatric drugs.

Quote:

(have you any idea of Chinese mining?)

There is plenty wrong with Chinese mining, but I am still pretty sure miners aren't allowed to get drunk on the job.

Quote:

There are no Muslims that drink alcohol, ever.

There are unfortunately plenty of Muslims who drink alcohol, but that does not change the fact that these are very poor examples with which you try to support your argument.

Toontown · 6th June 2012, 11:23 AM

18 would be my guess. If people are going to drink poisonous, brain-damaging, highly addictive chemicals, then let them get started, addicted, dead, and buried as soon as (but not before) they've had a chance to rationally think better of it.

No use dragging it out more than necessary. the doper life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone.

godless dave · 6th June 2012, 11:24 AM

This is really dependent on culture. I voted 18 because that's what I think it should be in my country.

godless dave · 6th June 2012, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Toontown

18 would be my guess. If people are going to drink poisonous, brain-damaging, highly addictive chemicals, then let them get started, addicted, dead, and buried as soon as (but not before) they've had a chance to rationally think better of it.

Alcohol, highly addictive?

Toontown · 6th June 2012, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by godless dave

Alcohol, highly addictive?

No, I was just kidding. And BBC news was just kidding too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3537387.stm

Don't worry. Be happy. Even if it takes a couple more drinks.

godless dave · 6th June 2012, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Toontown

No, I was just kidding. And BBC news was just kidding too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3537387.stm

Don't worry. Be happy. Even if it takes a couple more drinks.

That article doesn't say it's highly additive, it says some people can get addicted to it.

Cocaine is highly addictive. Nicotine is highly addictive. Alcohol is no more addictive than gambling.

Toontown · 6th June 2012, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by godless dave

That article doesn't say it's highly additive, it says some people can get addicted to it.

Cocaine is highly addictive. Nicotine is highly addictive. Alcohol is no more addictive than gambling.

Keep telling yourself that, and you'll never get addicted to alcohol, no matter how much you drink. And you'll never get addicted to gambling, no matter how much you gamble. And you'll always be able to quit, no matter how much you don't quit.

godless dave · 6th June 2012, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Toontown

Keep telling yourself that, and you'll never get addicted to alcohol, no matter how much you drink. And you'll never get addicted to gambling, no matter how much you gamble. And you'll always be able to quit, no matter how much you don't quit.

You do understand that some substances are more addictive than others, right?

Toontown · 6th June 2012, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by godless dave

You do understand that some substances are more addictive than others, right?

I don't really give a rat's ass about minor differences in addictivity.

7 yrs	13	12.15%
10 yrs	1	0.93%
12 yrs	2	1.87%
14 yrs	2	1.87%
16 yrs	19	17.76%
18 yrs	50	46.73%
21 yrs	13	12.15%
25 yrs	3	2.80%
30 yrs	1	0.93%
120 yrs	3	2.80%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

6th June 2012, 02:47 AM	#41
Multivac Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,001	Both of my daughters have been given diluted wine or beer, on a few special occasions, since they were old enough to express an interest in alcohol. My 19 year old, as a legal adult, drinks an occasional cider but has a generally responsible attitude to alcohol. I believe that the main reason we have so many binge drinkers in the UK most people are not exposed to alcohol in a controlled way when they are young. The attitude is very different from the attitude towards alcohol in mainland Europe where kids are allowed small amounts of alcohol with Sunday lunch. IMHO introducing kids to alchol in a controlled way does two things: 1) It puts them off alcohol as they won't like the taste. 2) It demystifies alcohol.
Multivac Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,001

6th June 2012, 03:04 AM	#42
Flo Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Massongy, France Posts: 2,827	Originally Posted by Multivac Both of my daughters have been given diluted wine or beer, on a few special occasions, since they were old enough to express an interest in alcohol. My 19 year old, as a legal adult, drinks an occasional cider but has a generally responsible attitude to alcohol. I believe that the main reason we have so many binge drinkers in the UK most people are not exposed to alcohol in a controlled way when they are young. The attitude is very different from the attitude towards alcohol in mainland Europe where kids are allowed small amounts of alcohol with Sunday lunch. Both my brother and I have been given minute quantities of alcohol on special occasions since we were approximately 12, like most of our friends in France and Switzerland. I enjoy the occasional beer and good wine with a meal, my brother started drinking irresponsibly from age 18, and it got worse and worse. Binge drinking and alcohol related problems do exist in mainland Europe ... Quote: IMHO introducing kids to alchol in a controlled way does two things: 1) It puts them off alcohol as they won't like the taste. 2) It demystifies alcohol. For some, not all, unfortunately.
	__________________ "Let me explain the order of things for you. There's the aristocracy, the upper class, middle class, working class, dumb animals, waiters, creeping things, head lice, people who eat packet soup, and then you." (Chef)

6th June 2012, 03:13 AM	#43
davefoc Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: orange country, california Posts: 7,333	And wonderful Flo was one of the people that my daughter has shared a glass of wine with. But by the time Flo shared that wine with our daughter she was a University student in Grenoble studying abroad for a year. Just a little update Flo: She's getting married this July and is about to graduate from UCLA with a masters in public policy (or something like that). I hope all goes well for you. Meeting you in Geneva remains one of the high points of our European trip. -Dave
	__________________ The way of truth is along the path of intellectual sincerity. -- Henry S. Pritchett Perfection is the enemy of good enough -- Russian proverb

6th June 2012, 03:18 AM	#44
Flo Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Massongy, France Posts: 2,827	Originally Posted by davefoc And wonderful Flo was one of the people that my daughter has shared a glass of wine with. But by the time Flo shared that wine with our daughter she was a University student in Grenoble studying abroad for a year. Just a little update Flo: She's getting married this July and is about to graduate from UCLA with a masters in public policy (or something like that). I hope all goes well for you. Meeting you in Geneva remains one of the high points of our European trip. -Dave Thanks for the update, please convey my congratulations and best wishes to her. I hope she has plans to introduce her husband to Europe and its wines some day, Vic's family and I will be only too happy to help ! Note that you're welcome too ...
	__________________ "Let me explain the order of things for you. There's the aristocracy, the upper class, middle class, working class, dumb animals, waiters, creeping things, head lice, people who eat packet soup, and then you." (Chef)

6th June 2012, 11:00 AM	#45
Earthborn Terrestrial Intelligence Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Terra Firma Posts: 5,675	Originally Posted by Dragoonster No. $150 a month isn't a big change. To poor people. Yes, it is. Quote: LOL. Even in America this is not so. And so much more not so in other countries. In the USA this may not be so, but it is in many other countries. Quote: Just to check/verify on your own--you should go into an ER and request a prescription for a drug that would make you not drink alcohol. I am not talking about a drug that makes me not drink alcohol, but if such a drug exists I could very likely get it for much less than $150 a month, should I need it. It is not something the ER is for. Quote: And let's just say that no, you don't have "insurance", which costs money. I don't live in the US, so my health insurance is way less than $150 a month, it is mandatory, and it covers all psychiatric drugs. Quote: (have you any idea of Chinese mining?) There is plenty wrong with Chinese mining, but I am still pretty sure miners aren't allowed to get drunk on the job. Quote: There are no Muslims that drink alcohol, ever. There are unfortunately plenty of Muslims who drink alcohol, but that does not change the fact that these are very poor examples with which you try to support your argument.
	__________________ Perhaps nothing is entirely true; and not even that! Multatuli

6th June 2012, 11:23 AM	#46
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,646	18 would be my guess. If people are going to drink poisonous, brain-damaging, highly addictive chemicals, then let them get started, addicted, dead, and buried as soon as (but not before) they've had a chance to rationally think better of it. No use dragging it out more than necessary. the doper life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone.
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,646	__________________ SEARCH NOW THE SPHERES PROBE THE UNIVERSE SEND BACK WORD WHAT FORCE SO IRRESISTIBLE AS THE WILL OF FREE MEN

6th June 2012, 11:24 AM	#47
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 6,137	This is really dependent on culture. I voted 18 because that's what I think it should be in my country.
	__________________ "If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm

6th June 2012, 11:25 AM	#48
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 6,137	Originally Posted by Toontown 18 would be my guess. If people are going to drink poisonous, brain-damaging, highly addictive chemicals, then let them get started, addicted, dead, and buried as soon as (but not before) they've had a chance to rationally think better of it. Alcohol, highly addictive?
	__________________ "If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm

6th June 2012, 12:29 PM	#49
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,646	Originally Posted by godless dave Alcohol, highly addictive? No, I was just kidding. And BBC news was just kidding too. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3537387.stm Don't worry. Be happy. Even if it takes a couple more drinks.
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,646	__________________ SEARCH NOW THE SPHERES PROBE THE UNIVERSE SEND BACK WORD WHAT FORCE SO IRRESISTIBLE AS THE WILL OF FREE MEN

6th June 2012, 12:31 PM	#50
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 6,137	Originally Posted by Toontown No, I was just kidding. And BBC news was just kidding too. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3537387.stm Don't worry. Be happy. Even if it takes a couple more drinks. That article doesn't say it's highly additive, it says some people can get addicted to it. Cocaine is highly addictive. Nicotine is highly addictive. Alcohol is no more addictive than gambling.
	__________________ "If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm

6th June 2012, 12:33 PM	#51
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,646	Originally Posted by godless dave That article doesn't say it's highly additive, it says some people can get addicted to it. Cocaine is highly addictive. Nicotine is highly addictive. Alcohol is no more addictive than gambling. Keep telling yourself that, and you'll never get addicted to alcohol, no matter how much you drink. And you'll never get addicted to gambling, no matter how much you gamble. And you'll always be able to quit, no matter how much you don't quit.
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,646	__________________ SEARCH NOW THE SPHERES PROBE THE UNIVERSE SEND BACK WORD WHAT FORCE SO IRRESISTIBLE AS THE WILL OF FREE MEN

6th June 2012, 12:37 PM	#52
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 6,137	Originally Posted by Toontown Keep telling yourself that, and you'll never get addicted to alcohol, no matter how much you drink. And you'll never get addicted to gambling, no matter how much you gamble. And you'll always be able to quit, no matter how much you don't quit. You do understand that some substances are more addictive than others, right?
	__________________ "If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm

6th June 2012, 01:18 PM	#53
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,646	Originally Posted by godless dave You do understand that some substances are more addictive than others, right? I don't really give a rat's ass about minor differences in addictivity.
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,646	__________________ SEARCH NOW THE SPHERES PROBE THE UNIVERSE SEND BACK WORD WHAT FORCE SO IRRESISTIBLE AS THE WILL OF FREE MEN