Arcology - Page 4

ben m · 22nd November 2012, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by L.Y.S.

It’s not that land use in a sort of “oh we’re running out of land!” predicament, but land use in modern cities is simply inefficient.

And that's fine, because there's a lot of land.

Quote:

Things like traffic, pollution, microclimates, ... can be eliminated under this model.

"Eliminating traffic" is accomplished by any sci-fi urbanization scheme, not just by arcologies.

Pollution is not eliminated by arcologies, it's eliminated by the fact that you dreamed up magic (non-arcology-related) energy/farm/building tech before dreaming up arcologies.

Microclimates are not an ecological problem. They're a measurable phenomenon associated with cities, but so are "noise" and "availability of tacos at 2AM" and "pigeons".

Quote:

1. In this model more land is left than in most if not all other models

Let me make another analogy. Currently, when I peel a potato---this is relevant on Thanksgiving---I peel away (waste) 5%-10% of the edible potato. This is unfortunate, but I don't care because 90% of a potato is still plenty of potato. If someone invented a equally-easy peeler that wasted only 2%, I'd say, "great, I'll take one." 98% of a potato is indeed somewhat better than 90%. You are telling me to invent---at great expense, requiring a full kitchen remodel---a nanobot-powered potato-peel remover that wastes only 0.1% of the potato. "It's 100x better" you say. "No," I say, "I already have 3 kg of peeled potatos. I don't need to make that 3.3kg at the cost of a sci-fi kitchen remodel."

quarky · 22nd November 2012, 09:51 AM

Well,
At least we can agree that the 'burbs' is a bad idea.

(Especially in NJ.)

L.Y.S. · 24th November 2012, 11:40 PM

Bump,

I'm put in a valid reply soon

RecoveringYuppy · 26th November 2012, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by ben m

"Eliminating traffic" is accomplished by any sci-fi urbanization scheme, not just by arcologies.

Arcology is a pretty broad term, what other sci-fi schemes do you have in mind?

ben m · 26th November 2012, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Arcology is a pretty broad term, what other sci-fi schemes do you have in mind?

LYS seems to think that the single building aspect is really important, but he seems to be thinking of the benefits, if at all, only by comparing them to modern car-dependent modern suburbs. I'm trying to prompt him to compare it to anything that goes in the "higher density" direction without the wacky megabuilding. I don't have anything specific in mind---I want him to think about generic urbanization, and I use the word "sci-fi" to prompt him to allow his no-smog/no-cars/free-energy/cheap-construction tech to apply to things other than his megastructures.

Beelzebuddy · 26th November 2012, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by ben m

Let me make another analogy. Currently, when I peel a potato---this is relevant on Thanksgiving---I peel away (waste) 5%-10% of the edible potato. This is unfortunate, but I don't care because 90% of a potato is still plenty of potato. If someone invented a equally-easy peeler that wasted only 2%, I'd say, "great, I'll take one." 98% of a potato is indeed somewhat better than 90%. You are telling me to invent---at great expense, requiring a full kitchen remodel---a nanobot-powered potato-peel remover that wastes only 0.1% of the potato. "It's 100x better" you say. "No," I say, "I already have 3 kg of peeled potatos. I don't need to make that 3.3kg at the cost of a sci-fi kitchen remodel."

You're looking at it the wrong way. The sci-fi kitchen can also zest lemons! Trim your toenails! Remove all that unsightly skin! With just a push of a button!

22nd November 2012, 09:25 AM	#121
ben m Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,648	Originally Posted by L.Y.S. It’s not that land use in a sort of “oh we’re running out of land!” predicament, but land use in modern cities is simply inefficient. And that's fine, because there's a lot of land. Quote: Things like traffic, pollution, microclimates, ... can be eliminated under this model. "Eliminating traffic" is accomplished by any sci-fi urbanization scheme, not just by arcologies. Pollution is not eliminated by arcologies, it's eliminated by the fact that you dreamed up magic (non-arcology-related) energy/farm/building tech before dreaming up arcologies. Microclimates are not an ecological problem. They're a measurable phenomenon associated with cities, but so are "noise" and "availability of tacos at 2AM" and "pigeons". Quote: 1. In this model more land is left than in most if not all other models Let me make another analogy. Currently, when I peel a potato---this is relevant on Thanksgiving---I peel away (waste) 5%-10% of the edible potato. This is unfortunate, but I don't care because 90% of a potato is still plenty of potato. If someone invented a equally-easy peeler that wasted only 2%, I'd say, "great, I'll take one." 98% of a potato is indeed somewhat better than 90%. You are telling me to invent---at great expense, requiring a full kitchen remodel---a nanobot-powered potato-peel remover that wastes only 0.1% of the potato. "It's 100x better" you say. "No," I say, "I already have 3 kg of peeled potatos. I don't need to make that 3.3kg at the cost of a sci-fi kitchen remodel."
ben m Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,648

22nd November 2012, 09:51 AM	#122
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454	Well, At least we can agree that the 'burbs' is a bad idea. (Especially in NJ.)
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454

24th November 2012, 11:40 PM	#123
L.Y.S. Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,511	Bump, I'm put in a valid reply soon
L.Y.S. Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,511

26th November 2012, 06:09 AM	#124
RecoveringYuppy Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,851	Originally Posted by ben m "Eliminating traffic" is accomplished by any sci-fi urbanization scheme, not just by arcologies. Arcology is a pretty broad term, what other sci-fi schemes do you have in mind?
	__________________ REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

26th November 2012, 07:14 AM	#125
ben m Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,648	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Arcology is a pretty broad term, what other sci-fi schemes do you have in mind? LYS seems to think that the single building aspect is really important, but he seems to be thinking of the benefits, if at all, only by comparing them to modern car-dependent modern suburbs. I'm trying to prompt him to compare it to anything that goes in the "higher density" direction without the wacky megabuilding. I don't have anything specific in mind---I want him to think about generic urbanization, and I use the word "sci-fi" to prompt him to allow his no-smog/no-cars/free-energy/cheap-construction tech to apply to things other than his megastructures.
ben m Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,648

26th November 2012, 08:07 AM	#126
Beelzebuddy Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,715	Originally Posted by ben m Let me make another analogy. Currently, when I peel a potato---this is relevant on Thanksgiving---I peel away (waste) 5%-10% of the edible potato. This is unfortunate, but I don't care because 90% of a potato is still plenty of potato. If someone invented a equally-easy peeler that wasted only 2%, I'd say, "great, I'll take one." 98% of a potato is indeed somewhat better than 90%. You are telling me to invent---at great expense, requiring a full kitchen remodel---a nanobot-powered potato-peel remover that wastes only 0.1% of the potato. "It's 100x better" you say. "No," I say, "I already have 3 kg of peeled potatos. I don't need to make that 3.3kg at the cost of a sci-fi kitchen remodel." You're looking at it the wrong way. The sci-fi kitchen can also zest lemons! Trim your toenails! Remove all that unsightly skin! With just a push of a button!