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Tags judy wood , morgan reynolds , space beams

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Old 8th November 2006, 06:55 PM   #361
Blackwell
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Originally Posted by The_Fire View Post
Isn't playing Paredolia fun? Seriously, TS: Get a grip......
No kidding. But just imagine if Erik Beckjord were to get ahold of TS's photos. So many Bigfoots, so little time.

http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoottribephotos/
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Last edited by Blackwell; 8th November 2006 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 8th November 2006, 06:58 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Blown to kingdom come by explosives, then massive holes drilled into the debris w/ a star wars beam weapon...

This is comedy gold!
Errr... I think I lost track of PooperScooper321's claims. The towers were both nuked with a hydrogen bomb, causing pyroclastic clouds, and destroyed by the Star Wars beam of obliterating destruction, pulverizing the towers, and after that, the Star Wars beam of obliterating destruction punched some holes in WTC 5 and 6? And the latter was done because of...?
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Old 8th November 2006, 07:15 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
And the latter was done because of...?
Because we can! Bwahahahaha!
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Old 8th November 2006, 07:26 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe View Post
easy, the laser blasted the building in a back and forth pattern to maximize damage, lol
Which explanation has the added benefit of completely contradicting the totally random arrangement of dots he showed us. I like it.
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Old 8th November 2006, 07:29 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
Errr... I think I lost track of PooperScooper321's claims. The towers were both nuked with a hydrogen bomb, causing pyroclastic clouds, and destroyed by the Star Wars beam of obliterating destruction, pulverizing the towers, and after that, the Star Wars beam of obliterating destruction punched some holes in WTC 5 and 6? And the latter was done because of...?
Field testing. They figured, "Hey, we're blowing the heck out of everything anyways, let's see what the Death Ray O' Doom can do! I bet ya it could draw a giant Mr. Bill being eaten by PacMan!"
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Old 8th November 2006, 07:29 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by Blackwell View Post
No kidding. But just imagine if Erik Beckjord were to get ahold of TS's photos. So many Bigfoots, so little time.

http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoottribephotos/
Oh my God... how is that guy not institutionalized?



I see bigfoot... don't you?
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Old 8th November 2006, 07:33 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by Dazed View Post
Oh my God... how is that guy not institutionalized?

http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoottribephotos/peterga.jpg

I see bigfoot... don't you?
I see Bigfoot with a target on his chest. Why is this guy advocating shooting poor little BigFoot?
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Old 8th November 2006, 07:41 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
I see Bigfoot with a target on his chest. Why is this guy advocating shooting poor little BigFoot?
I'm not sure, but I just made a big discovery.

Applying Erik Beckjord's advanced image processing algorhythms to this photo, we can reveal some startling secrets.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bigfoot.JPG (52.9 KB, 7 views)

Last edited by Dazed; 8th November 2006 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 8th November 2006, 07:45 PM   #369
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TS's enormous GIFs (not to be confused with TS's enormous guff) made me wonder: could it be some kind of laser machine gun? In space? The "blasts" seem to cover a wide area and in video games the machine gun is always the least accurate weapon, which is basically concrete proof.

So: a laser machine gun, fired from space, blasted enormous holes straight through the Twin Twers, causing their collapse.

I have to say, back on 9/11/01 I never imagined I would be reading something like that.
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Old 8th November 2006, 07:55 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by Dazed View Post
I see bigfoot... don't you?
I see the silhouette of a man's torso, with his arms in front of him (to the left in the photo) and a baseball bat over his shoulder. It looks like the MLB logo. OMG - this is all coming together now. In a Simpsons episode, I saw that MLB was spying on everyone from - wait for it - satellites! I bet they had energy beam weapons!
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Old 8th November 2006, 08:11 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by TruthSeeker1234 View Post
Yes, I have missed a few. I only placed dots where I saw round boundry conditions that matched the diameter. Yes, isn't it strange how everywhere there is a darker area, (indicating a greater depth of penetration), there are these matching diameters.
Nice how you've cut out the REST of my sentence to make it seem like I'm agreeing with you, liar.
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Old 8th November 2006, 11:52 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Seriously, does anyone have a diagram of the beam structure for this building?
That's exactly what it is. Falling debris punches holes in the roof except where the support beams are located. The fact that TS can't see this is pretty sad.

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Old 9th November 2006, 02:09 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by Housefly
So: a laser machine gun, fired from space, blasted enormous holes straight through the Twin Twers, causing their collapse.
Oh, come on. It's obvious this was a laser buckshot and we've all seen how accurate Cheney's aim is. No wonder there were half-destroyed police cars a mile away.

Originally Posted by Horatius
Seriously, does anyone have a diagram of the beam structure for this building?
I do have WTC5, no 4 or 6, though. It fits the holes quite well, but not perfectly, probably due to the distortion in the original photo or inaccurate flor plan. The floor plan was taken from FEMA's report, well, actually, from here (fig. 4-1).
When overlaying it, I had to distort it, to make it fit a bit better. The ammount of distortion used was about 5%.
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Old 9th November 2006, 05:21 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by celestrin View Post
I do have WTC5, no 4 or 6, though. It fits the holes quite well, but not perfectly, probably due to the distortion in the original photo or inaccurate flor plan. The floor plan was taken from FEMA's report, well, actually, from here (fig. 4-1).
When overlaying it, I had to distort it, to make it fit a bit better. The ammount of distortion used was about 5%.
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7...tackoe6.th.jpg
Damn I'm good....From that linked article:

Quote:
The floor plates cantilevered out 15 feet from the exterior column lines on all sides. To support this cantilever and provide the basic lateral resistance for the structure, a pair of W27 wide-flange beams were provided at each column line. These doubled wide-flange beams extended between the two outermost column lines, forming a moment-resisting frame, and cantilevered past the outer columns
Based on your overlay, these "pair of W27 wide-flange beams" are pretty much right where I placed the lines in my version. That's pretty conclusive, I think.
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Old 9th November 2006, 07:20 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Based on your overlay, these "pair of W27 wide-flange beams" are pretty much right where I placed the lines in my version. That's pretty conclusive, I think.
OMG, FEMA admit there were (star wars) "beams" used in the construction of WTC 4, 5, and 6 someone tell Dylan quick, this is huge!


Last edited by Spins; 9th November 2006 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 9th November 2006, 07:55 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by Dazed View Post
Oh my God... how is that guy not institutionalized?

http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoottribephotos/peterga.jpg

I see bigfoot... don't you?
Holy smokes, it's JIMMY HOFFA!!
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Old 9th November 2006, 09:25 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Dazed View Post
I'm not sure, but I just made a big discovery.

Applying Erik Beckjord's advanced image processing algorhythms to this photo, we can reveal some startling secrets.
Wow, ravers are goths. Let's just kill them all.
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Old 9th November 2006, 09:27 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
I see Bigfoot with a target on his chest. Why is this guy advocating shooting poor little BigFoot?
More hot news on bigfoot!

http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/videos/8
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Old 9th November 2006, 12:41 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by CurtC View Post
I see the silhouette of a man's torso, with his arms in front of him (to the left in the photo) and a baseball bat over his shoulder. It looks like the MLB logo. OMG - this is all coming together now. In a Simpsons episode, I saw that MLB was spying on everyone from - wait for it - satellites! I bet they had energy beam weapons!

. . . and the MLB pitcher that died in a plane crash recently was about to blow the lid off of the whole dirty deal.

It all makes frightening sense, now.
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Old 9th November 2006, 03:47 PM   #380
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Well, it looks like TS1234 hasn't posted in this thread since last night.

Dare I hope we finally convinced him that at least one of his pet theories is wrong? Dare I hope he would admit it if we had?

Anyone want to place bets?
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Old 9th November 2006, 04:17 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Dare I hope we finally convinced him that at least one of his pet theories is wrong? Dare I hope he would admit it if we had?
Someone who quotes himself twice in his sig will never admit to being wrong.
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Old 9th November 2006, 04:51 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Dazed View Post
I'm not sure, but I just made a big discovery.

Applying Erik Beckjord's advanced image processing algorhythms to this photo, we can reveal some startling secrets.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

god damn it, thats so [rule8]ing funny.
You should have titled your post with 'please dont be drinking coffee at this moment'
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Old 9th November 2006, 04:52 PM   #383
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hahaha this whole thread is comic genius. Star wars beam weapons. hahaha!!
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Old 9th November 2006, 04:58 PM   #384
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We've made progress on this thread as well. We've gone from denying that there are many round holes of similar diameter, to admitting it and seeking explanations. This is good.

Thank you for the beam diagram of WTC5. Those would be very useful for all of the WTC buildings.
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Old 9th November 2006, 05:10 PM   #385
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"We"?
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Old 10th November 2006, 02:08 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by TruthSeeker1234 View Post
Thank you for the beam diagram of WTC5. Those would be very useful for all of the WTC buildings.
Why does this read like "We'll try to milk this as far as it would go, as long as we can find anything that remotely agrees with our preconcieved conclusions. Heck, it doesn't even have to agree, just as long as it doesn't disagree with us."
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Old 10th November 2006, 04:02 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by TruthSeeker1234 View Post
We've made progress on this thread as well. We've gone from denying that there are many round holes of similar diameter, to admitting it and seeking explanations. This is good.

Thank you for the beam diagram of WTC5. Those would be very useful for all of the WTC buildings.
Dude. Nobody is 'seeking explanations' for this fantasy. If you hadn't noticed, they are ridiculing your theory because it is full of crap, and demonstrably so. You know, having a little fun at your expense.

I know, it's not nice, but sometimes when the theories are REALLY out there it's hard not to.
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Old 10th November 2006, 04:16 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by TruthSeeker1234 View Post
We've made progress on this thread as well. We've gone from denying that there are many round holes of similar diameter, to admitting it and seeking explanations. This is good.
My advice to you is to not include the rest of us in your dreams. You're gonna be disappointed.

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Old 10th November 2006, 04:21 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by TruthSeeker1234 View Post
We've made progress on this thread as well. We've gone from denying that there are many round holes of similar diameter, to admitting it and seeking explanations. This is good.

Thank you for the beam diagram of WTC5. Those would be very useful for all of the WTC buildings.
I somehow think we have differing views on the term " we've made progress"

If starting the silliest thread ever and making inane and laughable comments within it is progress, then yes you have made progress.
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Old 10th November 2006, 05:48 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by TruthSeeker1234 View Post
We've made progress on this thread as well. We've gone from denying that there are many round holes of similar diameter, to admitting it and seeking explanations. This is good.
Have we ?

The most I've said is this :

Originally Posted by Belz... verbatim
Now, I'd agree that it's kinda funny how those round-ish shapes seem all over the place, but to jump to the conclusion that there's a "beam weapon" involved, without evidence, and contra the fact that beams weapons are FOCUSED into a narrow beam, is ridiculous.
Unfortunately I also said "round-ISH".
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Old 10th November 2006, 08:53 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by celestrin View Post
Why does this read like "We'll try to milk this as far as it would go, as long as we can find anything that remotely agrees with our preconcieved conclusions. Heck, it doesn't even have to agree, just as long as it doesn't disagree with us."
I'd add one more level: "In fact, even if it really, really does disagree with 'us,' but I can put my fingers in my ears and pretend not to understand how badly it cripples my contention, I'll try to use it."
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Old 10th November 2006, 09:08 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by TruthSeeker1234 View Post
We've made progress on this thread as well. We've gone from denying that there are many round holes of similar diameter, to admitting it and seeking explanations. This is good.

Thank you for the beam diagram of WTC5. Those would be very useful for all of the WTC buildings.
"We"? I hope that's an ardwarck in your pocket you're talking about, BS, because if you are making allowances on my part, you aren't making yourself any favours........
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Old 10th November 2006, 12:25 PM   #393
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More Fun With Beam Weapons

Originally Posted by TruthSeeker1234 View Post
We've made progress on this thread as well. We've gone from denying that there are many round holes of similar diameter, to admitting it and seeking explanations. This is good.

Thank you for the beam diagram of WTC5. Those would be very useful for all of the WTC buildings.
A mathematician will be quick to point out that any arbitrary surface can be described by a collection of "circles" ("balls," we used to call them) of arbitrary diameter. Unless you can find a single size that fits perfectly, which you can't, you've proven nothing that geometrists haven't known for centuries.

Anyway -- seems we're still thinking about those pesky beam weapons, despite having shown you much less sinister mechanisms that provide the same "round holes," and are in fact completely consistent with the expected building performance. We've also shown you how your Star Wars weapon actually doesn't fit the "evidence" that you (and only you) see.

Still, elsewhere, you've insisted that we treat this as a valid hypothesis. It must be tested, you say.

The test is simple: Do beam weapons of this magnitude exist? No.

Still doubting, eh?

In that case, class, pull up a chair. Today we're going to design our own WTC Killing Beam Weapon of Doom to see just what one would look like. While the beam emitter itself could plausibly be a "black" project, something the Governmint doesn't want us to see, it would be dependent on much more mundane technologies -- launch vehicles, power systems, that kind of thing -- and still restrained by the laws of physics. While we may not know anything about the weapon itself, we can figure out the rest.

So suppose an unsmiling man in a grey suit delivers a magical beam weapon to us, and insists we make it functional. All we know are its requirements. Some of these we can divine from what we saw on Sept. 11th.

1. Orbit

The beam weapon must fire from almost directly above its target, and must do so unseen. If it fired at an angle, the beam -- allegedly capable of destroying the WTC towers -- would have cut through at an angle, leaving a quite interesting damage path, one that was not seen on TV. Likewise, TV cameras did not capture any blimps or dirigibles or large aircraft hovering high above the Towers. Thus, we assume the beam system was orbital.

There are basically two choices for an orbital system: LEO (Low Earth Orbit) and GEO (Geosynchronous) or similar orbits. Both of these orbits have problems.

Recall that not one tower was destroyed, but two. The South Tower fell at 9:59 AM, and the North Tower fell at 10:28. In LEO, the orbital period is a function of altitude, and the spacecraft orbits faster as it gets lower. However, the minimum usable orbit is about 90 minutes long. If the two different firings suggested happened on successive orbits, i.e. 29 minutes apart, the spacecraft altitude would have been below sea level. This is impossible.

If the two firings occurred on the same orbit, we now require a much, much higher orbit. A true GEO orbit won't work either, since you only remain geostationary above the equator, otherwise the spacecraft will appear to oscillate north and south while retaining the same longitude. We need a firing angle that is just about straight down and stays that way for 30 minutes, or 1/48th of an orbit. A GEO track would move by a minimum of 7.5% of peak latitude, or over 1.6o of latitude, which may be unacceptable. So we would need to be much, much higher than GEO.

The high-orbit situation is also impractical for two military reasons. First, high orbits require much larger rockets. Second, it severely limits your options, since it could take hours, days, or even forever to orient this beam on a particular target.

The only practical solution, then, is to have two beam weapon satellites. We will assume these are orbiting in the cheapest orbit possible, i.e. LEO.

2. Beam Energy

The beam must be capable of delivering a WTC-finishing blow in roughly 10 seconds. How much energy are we talking about?

To make this exercise remotely plausible, we will consider a firing energy much lower than the tower destruction itself. For sake of argument, suppose the beam delivers 6.0 x 109 Joules of energy -- a number chosen because it is twice that of the aircraft impact kinetic energy, as calculated in Greening (pg. 10). This is an arbitrary choice but clearly a beam energy higher than the impacts is needed, since the impacts alone finished off neither structure.

We further assume that the beam weapon is 50% efficient, an "ideal" figure (cutting-edge lasers built for efficiency are typically around 16% efficient). This means a total of 1.2 x 1010 Joules of energy must be supplied by the spacecraft, over a period of 10 seconds, or 1.2 x 109 Watts of power. That is the design requirement of our black-box beam weapon.

It should be pointed out that we have neglected many efficiency-robbing problems to arrive at this figure -- attenuation by the atmosphere, for instance, and beam absorption or reflection by the target are both major concerns. In practice I would not be surprised to see an effective beam efficiency as low as 5% under ideal conditions.

3. Energy Storage

As this power figure is roughly equivalent to the output of a commercial nuclear power plant, it is clear that our WKBWD satellite cannot provide this continuously, but must store the energy. This poses a big problem.

The most obvious solution is battery power. The highest energy density rechargeable batteries currently envisioned (and these have not been qualified for space) can supply about 1 MJ / kg of battery mass. To supply the 1.2 x 1010 Joules we require, this means 12,000 kg of battery.

But this figure cannot be trusted. Recall that we require a full discharge in only ten seconds. Batteries don't like this. They heat up, which increases their internal resistance and robs power, and chemical pathways become blocked, making much of its storage unavailable. Given this requirement, our battery size would need to be much larger -- Lithium ion batteries over 20 second peak load are limited to a mere 1500 W/kg. Since our beam requires 1.2 x 109 Watts, we would actually need 8,000 tons of battery.

So batteries are out. What about capacitors? If we assume a spacecraft bus voltage of 1000 Volts (which is unacceptably high for space applications, as arcing would probably destroy our satellite), to reach our total energy requirement, E = 0.5 C V2, thus capacitance C = 24,000 Farads. This can be done with, say, ten tons of capacitors, however the leakage will be much higher -- rather than charging batteries over periods of weeks, the capacitors will require a much more rapid charge cycle, and any weight saved in the capacitors themselves will be lost to solar arrays and thermal management.

The very last possibility is the extreme explosive compression flux generator, basically a one-shot motor that uses explosives to push a magnet and a coil. This is similarly "black" and exciting to Conspiracy Theorists, but not practical here either. While this little gadget can crank out a reported 1012 Watts, it only does so for a few microseconds. To sustain our ten-second beam, we would need about a million small copies of this, and they would have to somehow be shielded from each other. Alternatively, if we convinced the beam weapon designers to change their beam, so that it fired one extremely rapid pulse, we would only need a few thousand of these.

In either case, the beam weapon would have to handle several million Amps of current, and somehow convert this into a useful, collimated beam. If anybody has any ideas how to do this, let me know. The best I can think of is a microwave waveguide -- but the biggest of these is Arecibo, it's four orders of magnitude weaker than we'd need, and it would clearly be seen orbiting the Earth!

We also have a another stealth problem. If we generate a 1.2 x 1010 Joule energy pulse, that means we're setting off much more than 1.2 x 1010 Joules worth of explosives, or 3 tons TNT equivalent, in orbit. This can be done, provided we don't mind creating a flash in the upper atmosphere that would be clearly visible to the naked eye in full daylight, and provided we don't mind alerting the early warning systems of every nuclear-armed government in the process.

4. Launch Considerations

Each of our proposed solutions above requires a satellite that masses over 10 tons for energy storage or generation above. Since the thermal control, solar generation, attitude control, and payload are also assumed to be significant, we may assume the power storage is reasonably close to a standard satellite MEL (Mass Equipment List) breakdown, and is thus around 10-25% of the total satellite mass. We thus estimate our spacecraft minimum mass is around 40 tons.

This exceeds the launch capability of any current launch vehicle -- almost double that of the Shuttle -- although Saturn V could do it.

Needless to say, this also isn't a good consideration for stealth.

Any other launch would require on-orbit assembly, and a rather complicated one at that. The extremely high-power storage and supply would have to be bridged. Pointing on the beam weapon would be critical, requiring utmost precision.

Lastly, this would mean that our astronauts are also members of the conspiracy.

5. Conclusion

Orbital beam weapons, even if the beam technology itself was sound, are not practical as tools of overt domination or covert destruction of land-based targets. There is simply no way to generate the power required to destroy hardened structures, let alone destroy them so thoroughly as to remove evidence of the beam weapon's use. In legitimate studies, beam weapons have only been considered in cases where a much lower power (1 MW or less) can achieve a useful result, such as damaging fragile sensors or puncturing thin-walled critical structures, e.g. the booster of an ICBM.

The fundamental roadblock is the ability to put power on the ground. As we saw above, the only credible approach is to use expendables, viz. explosives. In this case, the orbiting beam weapon offers no advantages over simply putting those same explosives on target. The difficulty and cost associated with the orbiting platform, coupled with the nonexistence of high performance beam emitters to begin with, makes this a complete non-starter.

-----

Thank you all for your attention. There's a sign-up sheet for my two-week Mad Scientist Camp circulating somewhere near the back.

Last edited by R.Mackey; 10th November 2006 at 12:30 PM. Reason: Minor error in GEO orbital mechanics
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Old 10th November 2006, 12:42 PM   #394
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i still think TR-3B is the only way to go, lol

at an altitude of 120,000 feet is practically in orbit
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Old 10th November 2006, 12:47 PM   #395
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R.Mackey, remind me to buy you a beer if we ever meet. I think we'd get along great. Oh, and Nominated! My first, I'm so proud!
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Old 10th November 2006, 01:08 PM   #396
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A beer ? I wanna buy him a CAR!
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Old 10th November 2006, 01:13 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
Pointing on the beam weapon would be critical, requiring utmost precision.
R.Mackey mentions in passing how critical aiming the weapon would be. A quick calculation shows, for an orbit of only 100 miles, the towers would subtend an angle of only 80 arcseconds, or about 0.02 degrees. This would require aiming as good as a typical rifleman, which could be maintained over the entire firing time, twice. Any higher orbit makes the problem even worse.

Any vibration during firing would tend to draw you off target, and so any device able to overcome the problems listed by Mackey must also do it with an absolute minimum of vibration, or some sort of real-time active beam control.
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Old 10th November 2006, 01:15 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
A beer ? I wanna buy him a CAR!
A car with a Beam Weapon of Doom in it!
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Old 10th November 2006, 04:51 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
Likewise, TV cameras did not capture any blimps or dirigibles or large aircraft hovering high above the Towers. Thus, we assume the beam system was orbital.
But what abouit sharks w/ beams attached to their heads? Didn't think about that one, did ya smart guy?
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Old 10th November 2006, 07:56 PM   #400
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R. Mackey:

Beam weapons from space are not feasible for another reason, as well.

You can make a weapon just as deadly at a much lower cost and weight. A simple kinetic energy weapon from orbit could be devastating. Imaging a 5 ton aerodynamic ceramic slug, with a sensor package and guidance fins, dropped (and thus accelerating) from a high orbit. A propulsion system to slow it down is all you need for it to fall.

Laser? Bah, keep 'em

Just for some math:

GEO is around 42,000km. We'll assume a 5,000kg slug. Given our distance, we can calculate how long it would take for it to hit the ground (assuming no initial "push" downward and disregarding air resistence...which would only affect the very last 100km or so). The equation is t = SQRT(2*h/g), where h is the height and g is gravitic acceleration. With g=9.8m/s2 and h=42,000,000m, we can come up with about 20,200s (I rounded down).

Now, we can figure how fast it'd be going when it hits. Velocity = g*t, so we get 197,960 m/s. A pretty good clip.

We know that KE=1/2 mv2, so we can figure the energy here. We come up with 97,970,404,000,000 J...about 900 times the energy Mackey was working with for the laser beam.
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