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Old 25th April 2005, 12:29 PM   #1
Pablo
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Yet more oxygenated water...

A friend of mine, a conference interpreter, just accepted an assignment for an employee of a certain company, who apparently will be attending some business meetings in Germany over the next few days. The job notice did not specify the exact nature of the company's product, and my friend, not wanting to lose time, placed his bid and obtained the job. It was only afterwards, while reviewing the client's information, that I mentioned the similarities between their product and all those "oxygenated waters" that have been discussed here time and time again.

Now, I am quite aware that "oxygenated water" is a fraudulent product, and that it advertises under false premises. Ethical questions aside ("is it right to work for a charlatan?" "Isn't the money I'm being paid actually money swindled from a poor sucker?"), he's having some second thoughts about the whole affair for a much more practical reason. Can he be sure that he's going to get paid for his work? On the one hand, we are dealing with a company that sells a "fraudulent" product (in that it incorrectly describes its properties and virtues). On the other hand, I can't help thinking that they are, first and foremost, a business, and that they aim to stay in business, so that their paying morale will be acceptable. Then again, it might well be one of those "take the money (and unpaid invoices) and run" stories....

So what do you think? Fraudsters trhough and through or businessmen doing their job?
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Old 25th April 2005, 03:08 PM   #2
Bruce
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FAQ's

3. How do you keep the oxygen in the water? Answer coming soon.
4. What is energization? Answer coming soon.
5. What is magnetization? Answer coming soon.

Sounds like a movie trailer.

Well, until they release details of their process, I can't tell you if there's any legitimacy to the process or not. If you find out, I can tell you.

Ever since those Oxyclean commercials were released, there has been a wave of marketing techniques claiming to use oxygen to clean things. In truth, oxyclean uses a percarbonate, or CO(-4), which oxidizes color causing molecules found in stains. That's not the same as saying the oxygen you breath is removing the color.

There may be a legitemate way of adding an oxidizing agent to water to purify it, but it's not by bubbling molecular oxygen into the water. Keep us posted.
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Old 25th April 2005, 03:29 PM   #3
geni
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The site has been around for about 3 years and has been changed repeatedly:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.femo2.com/

Their contact information appears to be consistant with their whois data.
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Old 25th April 2005, 03:39 PM   #4
AK-Dave
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce
...oxyclean uses a percarbonate, or CO(-4)...
Sorry for a slight derail, but how is percarbonate different from carbon monoxide, which, from what I remember, is also CO?
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Old 25th April 2005, 04:09 PM   #5
pgwenthold
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Quote:
Originally posted by AK-Dave
Sorry for a slight derail, but how is percarbonate different from carbon monoxide, which, from what I remember, is also CO?
I think that is supposed to be (CO4)-3

Carbonate is (CO3)-2

Percarbonate would have another oxygen
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Old 25th April 2005, 07:20 PM   #6
Bruce
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Quote:
Originally posted by AK-Dave
Sorry for a slight derail, but how is percarbonate different from carbon monoxide, which, from what I remember, is also CO?
Sorry, I was in a hurry. I meant to type (CO4)4-. It's actually a theoretical intermediate because it's never been isolated. Sodium percarbonate is made my mixing sodium carbonate Na2CO3 with hydrogen peroxide H2O2. Hydrogen peroxide is a fairly mild oxidizing agent by itself, but in the right ratio with sodium carbonate, a percarbonate intermediate is formed which has even stronger oxidizing power. It's too unstable to be isolated. When it oxidizes a colorant or odorant, the byproducts are water and carbon dioxide.

Here are a couple of links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_percarbonate
http://www.chemistrystore.com/Sodium...onate_Uses.htm

A similar combination of two weak oxidizers to make a strong intermediate is aqua regia. It's the combination of nitric acid and hydrochloric acid, which make a Cl radical. I used this mixture in graduate school to dissolve gold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_regia

Going back to water purification, such oxidizers can be used to remove unwanted color and odor from water. Historically, it's been done with small amounts of oxychlorates. They kill all the bacteria, but cause a slight chlorine taste. Recently, there has been a flood of other oxidizers, filtering methods, irradiation methods and such, but I haven't been involved in that research so I don't know if those methods are as effective as oxychlorates.

The secret in making water taste good in not in what you take out, but what you leave in. Distilled water is the purest water you can make, but it tastes terrible. What gives water it's refreshing taste is trace amounts of minerals such as sodium, calcium, iron, and potassium. I don't know what the perfect combination is, but these are the trace elements found in spring water that make it taste good.

Marketing people don't want to sit down and try to figure out all this complex chemistry. They want a hook, something that appeals to the consumer and to the investors. "Oxidation? Sounds like oxygen! You breath oxygen. Yes, that's what makes it good!" Apparantly the Femto people are in the process of coming up with some good BS for the FAQ site. How does the oxygen stay in the water? Dear oh dear. This should be good.

The danger here is that the average joe con-man can go out and approach investors with regurgitated marketing bullcrap and claim he has his own "ultra oxygenating energenizing magnetizing whatever" and show them a gastly contraption "designed to do the magic". The investors write the check for the capital while joe con-man fills the bottles out back with his garden hose.

Bottom line: If you are an investment banker, you may want to take some chemistry courses or at least hire a chemist as a consultant to investigate the process.

I charge $300/hr plus travel expenses.

PM me if you want more info or want to have a phone conversation.
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Old 27th April 2005, 01:22 AM   #7
Art Vandelay
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If you want oxygenated water, why buy this fancy stuff? Why not just drink hydrogen peroxide? Most people are so used to thinking of oxygen as the "breath of life" they don't even think about the fact that it's a poison; that's why hydrogen peroxide is used as a disinfectant. Pouring oxygen into your stomach is a bit like pouring water into your lungs.
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Old 27th April 2005, 03:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
There may be a legitemate way of adding an oxidizing agent to water to purify it, but it's not by bubbling molecular oxygen into the water.
Actually, one legitimate way to purify water is by bubbling molecular ozon into it. And I'm sure I don't have to tell you chemisists that ozon is kinda like totally the same thing as oxygen or... whatever.
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Old 27th April 2005, 03:34 AM   #9
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If only we had gills...
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Old 27th April 2005, 06:29 AM   #10
Bruce
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earthborn
Actually, one legitimate way to purify water is by bubbling molecular ozon into it. And I'm sure I don't have to tell you chemisists that ozon is kinda like totally the same thing as oxygen or... whatever.
Sure, it's like oxygen with an extra oxygen on the oxygen. That's like an extra refreshing breath of life! Not only that, but the excess will fix our precious ozone layer. Isn't science fun?
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