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RandFan · 1st January 2012, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by LondonJohn

Oooooo....kayyyyyy. Thanks for the errr........ style instruction

No, no. I think you're missing my point entirely (note lack of superfluous second adverb

). My point is not about talent per se. I absolutely agree that it takes talent and application to be a consistently brilliant journalist or writer, and that in a competitive marketplace the top exponents of their trade are (by-and-large) worth the money they are paid. No: my argument is specifically that one should not equate talent linearly with equivalent admiration or recognition of some sort of social good. Some people are inordinately talented at a certain skill or profession (top magicians, for example), and they are sometimes extremely well-paid for their skill (Seigfried & Roy or David Copperfield might spring to mind). But their undoubted talent and prowess - and their consequent remuneration and public profiles - obviously don't translate into a proportionate amount of admiration (if admiration is defined here in its "social good", "philanthropy" or "benefit of mankind" sense).

Other than that, I assure you we're not far apart in much of our thinking. I am just trying to slightly temper the sometimes-verging-on-hagiographic praise being heaped upon Hitchens. Sad that he's gone, though, and will enjoy reliving his acerbic attacks on deserving targets in print and video.

Okay. I agree that we are close in our thinking. Thanks.

LondonJohn · 2nd January 2012, 03:06 AM

Originally Posted by RandFan

Okay. I agree that we are close in our thinking. Thanks.

I love the smell of pleasant resolution in the morning.

Happy New Year!

Brown · 2nd March 2012, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by Brown

We have not heard the last of Hitch. I suspect that he has written quite a bit of material that has not been published, Some of them might have been withheld for posthumous publication or because they relate to events that have not occurred. It would not surprise me, for example, if we see an obituary for Billy Graham written by Christopher Hitchens, even though Graham had the "good fortune" of outliving Hitchens. It would not surprise me to see an essay by Hitchens about the end of the Iraq occupation. It would not surprise me to see an essay, perhaps written over a very long period of time, about last-ditch efforts to convert him to some form of creed.

There will be posthumous re-issues of three of Hitch's already-published books: "The Missionary Position: Mother Theresa in Theory and Practice," "No One Left to Lie to: The Triangulations of William Jefferson Clinton," and "The Trial of Henry Kissinger." The re-issues are planned for 10 April, near what would have been Hitch's 63rd birthday (13 April).

SezMe · 24th March 2012, 09:05 PM

Hitch speaks to us from the beyond.

angrysoba · 24th March 2012, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Hitch speaks to us from the beyond.

What's the deal with this? Is it an April Fool's Day thing?

Joey McGee · 24th March 2012, 11:28 PM

We should have a seance on Friday the 13th. Since it's also his birthday, the energies will be strongest. We'll gather in and old bar after hours and bring offerings of blenched scotch whiskies and fine tobacco. If he shows up we'll have a first rate analysis of the afterlife. If he doesn't we'll all get drunk and argue about totalitarianism.

Yeah I miss having him around that much I guess.

Roadtoad · 25th March 2012, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

What's the deal with this? Is it an April Fool's Day thing?

It was likely written before he died, with an editor providing the appropriate fill-in-the-blanks for the sonorous prevarications of the "devout."

Hitch was likely right. And if that's the case, whatever peace could have been made with my father should have been made before he died. Ain't no changing what is.

Joey McGee · 25th March 2012, 07:34 PM

Word. The peace that has not been been made will have to be reflected in the next generation. In my family, at our patriarch's death, most of us realized that our net output was far below the bar set by this man. The most inspiring event in our lives was to realize that we owed our existence to his labor and that we could build upon his legacy by copying his example. That's all I can say.

And I've never heard of the word "blenched" I meant blended, but blenched is a word so autocorrect whatever. What I would have given to study under Christopher! He left behind a literary legacy though, if you follow it, it will be hard to make mistakes.

Or just to quote him

Quote:

I think what I mainly live for is contemplating the misfortunes of other people. That and vindication. Being proved repeatedly over and over again right when other people are wrong. That does a lot for me.

The second thing I live for is, if not exactly passing on my genes, taking part in activities that might allow those genes to be passed on.

cheers

Roadtoad · 26th March 2012, 11:38 AM

If Hitchens offered nothing else, this would be a great gift in and of itself.

The great fallacy we face in rational thought is the idea that we can "fix it later." I'm young, I've got a shot at fixing it "later." Or worse, "I'm a believer, there's the next life."

The reality is that we are facing our lives today, we're dealing with things now. You learn to function within a society, ethically, morally, justly to prevent the kind of nightmares that some of us face today. Part of good parenting is ensuring your children learn to treat others with respect. You don't get a pass in eternity simply because your bodily functions cease.

Eventually, we're all forgotten, or our influence fades. Mathematics shows us that even our genetic influence will be muted over successive generations, and we'll be forgotten as our genetic makeup fades from humanity. Regardless of how prolifically you breed, your place in the gene pool will be taken by others.

Hitchens will "live" on through his writing, but others will come and take his place. It will become source material for the next generation, perhaps used for research, or misused by those whom Hitchens would consider his enemies. The best we can hope for is to make clear our beliefs and intentions today, and assure others of what we meant before we leave.

If anything can be said, it's that Hitchens made the best use of the time he had while he was here. That's a profound example for anyone.

Brown · 26th March 2012, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Roadtoad

It was likely written before he died, with an editor providing the appropriate fill-in-the-blanks for the sonorous prevarications of the "devout."

Hitch was likely right. And if that's the case, whatever peace could have been made with my father should have been made before he died. Ain't no changing what is.

Actually, I don't think Hitch really wrote any of it, though I might be mistaken. There is at least one grammatical error in there that (I suspect) Hitch would not make, and apart from being pompous, the prose does not quite ring true.

Rrose Selavy · 26th March 2012, 01:03 PM

sorry ignore. wrong post,

angrysoba · 26th March 2012, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Brown

Actually, I don't think Hitch really wrote any of it, though I might be mistaken. There is at least one grammatical error in there that (I suspect) Hitch would not make, and apart from being pompous, the prose does not quite ring true.

Yeah, there's a whole section there which is supposedly in response to something a preacher tweeted after Hitchens' death. It would actually annoy me more if Hitchens had written this and then he told someone to patch up the little bits with reactions people have following his death. I mean, just how self-indulgent could one be? (Yes, yes, I know we're talking about Hitchens, but even he must have thought that would be a bit too contrived.)

The only thing I half-expect to read from Hitchens is some unpublished stuff such as obituaries for Henry Kissinger or Joseph Ratzinger which might have been filed with Slate or Vanity Fair. It's not uncommon for obituaries to come out where the writer has been deceased longer than the subject of the piece.

Brown · 27th March 2012, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Yeah, there's a whole section there which is supposedly in response to something a preacher tweeted after Hitchens' death. It would actually annoy me more if Hitchens had written this and then he told someone to patch up the little bits with reactions people have following his death. I mean, just how self-indulgent could one be? (Yes, yes, I know we're talking about Hitchens, but even he must have thought that would be a bit too contrived.)

And it is presumptuous in the extreme to purport to channel Hitchens, putting words in his mouth that are not really his. Like this guy:

Originally Posted by Christopher Hitchens, "channelled" by some guy

In my life, I have said that I would not undergo a 'deathbed conversion' to any religious creed. This, my last promise that I could possibly have kept, I kept indeed.

To those who say that I did not keep my word, I say this: A deathbed conversion is of no value whatsoever. Even if such a conversion does occur, what does it prove? It certainly does not prove the validity the faith to which the new adherent swears his brief allegiance, nor does it prove the invalidity of any competing faith to which the dying person chose not to convert. The validity of religious tenets must surely be established by their merits and their effects, not by the number of dying men who suddenly attest to them.

Such a conversion may easily be attributed to fear or a loss of mental acuity, both of which often precede death. Or it may have done as a courtesy to the family, who fear that the departing loved one will be lost in the afterlife, unless words of conversion are uttered. To the dying person, it may be like a perverse Pascal's Wager, except that the payoff is not eternal life but rather is less pointless worry by loved ones.

I suggest that a far more potent conversion is the post-death conversion. A person who has died, and who thereby may have acquired knowledge of use to those still living, may relate that knowledge so that conversion may be made to the correct faith in the proper course. In my life, I was aware of no instances in which post-death knowledge was imparted to the living. The play of Hamlet, in which such knowledge plays a pivotal role, is of course fiction.

Nevertheless, in the event I find that I was wrong, I shall make an effort to correct my error. I shall make a post-death conversion and will try to relate what I have learned. I shall do my best not to be as terrifying as the ghost of Hamlet's father.

But don't stay up late at nights just to wait for me.

Originally Posted by angrysoba

The only thing I half-expect to read from Hitchens is some unpublished stuff such as obituaries for Henry Kissinger or Joseph Ratzinger which might have been filed with Slate or Vanity Fair. It's not uncommon for obituaries to come out where the writer has been deceased longer than the subject of the piece.

I agree. I suspect Hitch may have written an obit for Billy Graham, as an antidote for the unwarranted praise that will spew forth after Graham takes his final breath.

Originally Posted by Brown

We have not heard the last of Hitch. I suspect that he has written quite a bit of material that has not been published, Some of them might have been withheld for posthumous publication or because they relate to events that have not occurred. It would not surprise me, for example, if we see an obituary for Billy Graham written by Christopher Hitchens, even though Graham had the "good fortune" of outliving Hitchens. It would not surprise me to see an essay by Hitchens about the end of the Iraq occupation. It would not surprise me to see an essay, perhaps written over a very long period of time, about last-ditch efforts to convert him to some form of creed.

zooterkin · 28th March 2012, 03:22 AM

For those in the UK, Hitch 22 is the Kindle Daily Deal today, so it's available for 99p.

(As it happens, I already have it, I bought it on the train on my return from TAM9.

)

Orphia Nay · 17th April 2012, 01:27 AM

A tribute to Christopher Hitchens, compiled by the Atheist Foundation of Australia and screened at the Global Atheist Convention in Melbourne on the weekend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR0GyYaeI-k

aviolet4u · 18th June 2012, 07:25 PM

I really miss him

The feelings are strong when I come across watching a video like this one. Is there any other speaker as witty and intelligent as he was in these religious debates??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjs9P...eature=related

Cain · 18th June 2012, 09:18 PM

Kissinger lives...

Joey McGee · 19th June 2012, 09:18 PM

Spent a great deal of time reading Hitchens on the Iraq war today. Seems most of our ilk said it was the one thing he got wrong, oh he was right on religion etc but clearly lost the plot over jihad etc... **** it, he was right.

"If the great effort to remake Iraq as a demilitarized federal and secular democracy should fail or be defeated, I shall lose sleep for the rest of my life in reproaching myself for doing too little. But at least I shall have the comfort of not having offered, so far as I can recall, any word or deed that contributed to a defeat."

Seems like, on the day the war ended, he allowed himself to sleep.

Cheers

Joey McGee · 19th June 2012, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by aviolet4u

I really miss him

The feelings are strong when I come across watching a video like this one. Is there any other speaker as witty and intelligent as he was in these religious debates??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjs9P...eature=related

There will be thousands more men and women of the same integrity of Hitchens because of his work and these videos, of that I have no doubt.

This is someone fighting for our inner freedom and integrity as human beings and succeeding, at least intellectually, in a way no one ever has. "I mean to say it infects us in our most basic integrity. It says: we can't be moral without 'big brother', without a totalitarian permission,..." lines that that stir something animal in us, but in the long term, they are rationally borne out, earning our admiration...

TheGoldcountry · 19th June 2012, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Cain

Kissinger lives...

and Hitchens is dead. Proof right there that there is no God.

ETA: or maybe it is..........

1st January 2012, 05:04 PM	#361
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,970	Originally Posted by LondonJohn Oooooo....kayyyyyy. Thanks for the errr........ style instruction No, no. I think you're missing my point entirely (note lack of superfluous second adverb ). My point is not about talent per se. I absolutely agree that it takes talent and application to be a consistently brilliant journalist or writer, and that in a competitive marketplace the top exponents of their trade are (by-and-large) worth the money they are paid. No: my argument is specifically that one should not equate talent linearly with equivalent admiration or recognition of some sort of social good. Some people are inordinately talented at a certain skill or profession (top magicians, for example), and they are sometimes extremely well-paid for their skill (Seigfried & Roy or David Copperfield might spring to mind). But their undoubted talent and prowess - and their consequent remuneration and public profiles - obviously don't translate into a proportionate amount of admiration (if admiration is defined here in its "social good", "philanthropy" or "benefit of mankind" sense). Other than that, I assure you we're not far apart in much of our thinking. I am just trying to slightly temper the sometimes-verging-on-hagiographic praise being heaped upon Hitchens. Sad that he's gone, though, and will enjoy reliving his acerbic attacks on deserving targets in print and video. Okay. I agree that we are close in our thinking. Thanks.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

2nd January 2012, 03:06 AM	#362
LondonJohn Philosopher Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 5,599	Originally Posted by RandFan Okay. I agree that we are close in our thinking. Thanks. I love the smell of pleasant resolution in the morning. Happy New Year!
LondonJohn Philosopher Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 5,599

2nd March 2012, 06:31 AM	#363
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,293	Originally Posted by Brown We have not heard the last of Hitch. I suspect that he has written quite a bit of material that has not been published, Some of them might have been withheld for posthumous publication or because they relate to events that have not occurred. It would not surprise me, for example, if we see an obituary for Billy Graham written by Christopher Hitchens, even though Graham had the "good fortune" of outliving Hitchens. It would not surprise me to see an essay by Hitchens about the end of the Iraq occupation. It would not surprise me to see an essay, perhaps written over a very long period of time, about last-ditch efforts to convert him to some form of creed. There will be posthumous re-issues of three of Hitch's already-published books: "The Missionary Position: Mother Theresa in Theory and Practice," "No One Left to Lie to: The Triangulations of William Jefferson Clinton," and "The Trial of Henry Kissinger." The re-issues are planned for 10 April, near what would have been Hitch's 63rd birthday (13 April).
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice Last edited by Brown; 2nd March 2012 at 06:32 AM.

24th March 2012, 11:28 PM	#366
Joey McGee Transcendental Naturalist Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,238	We should have a seance on Friday the 13th. Since it's also his birthday, the energies will be strongest. We'll gather in and old bar after hours and bring offerings of blenched scotch whiskies and fine tobacco. If he shows up we'll have a first rate analysis of the afterlife. If he doesn't we'll all get drunk and argue about totalitarianism. Yeah I miss having him around that much I guess.
	__________________ How do I know that this is so? By looking!

25th March 2012, 07:34 PM	#368
Joey McGee Transcendental Naturalist Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,238	Word. The peace that has not been been made will have to be reflected in the next generation. In my family, at our patriarch's death, most of us realized that our net output was far below the bar set by this man. The most inspiring event in our lives was to realize that we owed our existence to his labor and that we could build upon his legacy by copying his example. That's all I can say. And I've never heard of the word "blenched" I meant blended, but blenched is a word so autocorrect whatever. What I would have given to study under Christopher! He left behind a literary legacy though, if you follow it, it will be hard to make mistakes. Or just to quote him Quote: I think what I mainly live for is contemplating the misfortunes of other people. That and vindication. Being proved repeatedly over and over again right when other people are wrong. That does a lot for me. The second thing I live for is, if not exactly passing on my genes, taking part in activities that might allow those genes to be passed on. cheers
	__________________ How do I know that this is so? By looking!

24th March 2012, 09:05 PM	#364
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 16,651	Hitch speaks to us from the beyond.

24th March 2012, 10:01 PM	#365
angrysoba Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 8,889	Originally Posted by SezMe Hitch speaks to us from the beyond. What's the deal with this? Is it an April Fool's Day thing?

25th March 2012, 11:41 AM	#367
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,739	Originally Posted by angrysoba What's the deal with this? Is it an April Fool's Day thing? It was likely written before he died, with an editor providing the appropriate fill-in-the-blanks for the sonorous prevarications of the "devout." Hitch was likely right. And if that's the case, whatever peace could have been made with my father should have been made before he died. Ain't no changing what is.

26th March 2012, 11:38 AM	#369
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,739	If Hitchens offered nothing else, this would be a great gift in and of itself. The great fallacy we face in rational thought is the idea that we can "fix it later." I'm young, I've got a shot at fixing it "later." Or worse, "I'm a believer, there's the next life." The reality is that we are facing our lives today, we're dealing with things now. You learn to function within a society, ethically, morally, justly to prevent the kind of nightmares that some of us face today. Part of good parenting is ensuring your children learn to treat others with respect. You don't get a pass in eternity simply because your bodily functions cease. Eventually, we're all forgotten, or our influence fades. Mathematics shows us that even our genetic influence will be muted over successive generations, and we'll be forgotten as our genetic makeup fades from humanity. Regardless of how prolifically you breed, your place in the gene pool will be taken by others. Hitchens will "live" on through his writing, but others will come and take his place. It will become source material for the next generation, perhaps used for research, or misused by those whom Hitchens would consider his enemies. The best we can hope for is to make clear our beliefs and intentions today, and assure others of what we meant before we leave. If anything can be said, it's that Hitchens made the best use of the time he had while he was here. That's a profound example for anyone.

26th March 2012, 01:02 PM	#370
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,293	Originally Posted by Roadtoad It was likely written before he died, with an editor providing the appropriate fill-in-the-blanks for the sonorous prevarications of the "devout." Hitch was likely right. And if that's the case, whatever peace could have been made with my father should have been made before he died. Ain't no changing what is. Actually, I don't think Hitch really wrote any of it, though I might be mistaken. There is at least one grammatical error in there that (I suspect) Hitch would not make, and apart from being pompous, the prose does not quite ring true.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice Last edited by Brown; 26th March 2012 at 01:04 PM.

26th March 2012, 01:03 PM	#371
Rrose Selavy Stranded in Sub-Atomica Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: UK Posts: 2,955	sorry ignore. wrong post,

26th March 2012, 10:38 PM	#372
angrysoba Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 8,889	Originally Posted by Brown Actually, I don't think Hitch really wrote any of it, though I might be mistaken. There is at least one grammatical error in there that (I suspect) Hitch would not make, and apart from being pompous, the prose does not quite ring true. Yeah, there's a whole section there which is supposedly in response to something a preacher tweeted after Hitchens' death. It would actually annoy me more if Hitchens had written this and then he told someone to patch up the little bits with reactions people have following his death. I mean, just how self-indulgent could one be? (Yes, yes, I know we're talking about Hitchens, but even he must have thought that would be a bit too contrived.) The only thing I half-expect to read from Hitchens is some unpublished stuff such as obituaries for Henry Kissinger or Joseph Ratzinger which might have been filed with Slate or Vanity Fair. It's not uncommon for obituaries to come out where the writer has been deceased longer than the subject of the piece.

27th March 2012, 04:40 AM	#373
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,293	Originally Posted by angrysoba Yeah, there's a whole section there which is supposedly in response to something a preacher tweeted after Hitchens' death. It would actually annoy me more if Hitchens had written this and then he told someone to patch up the little bits with reactions people have following his death. I mean, just how self-indulgent could one be? (Yes, yes, I know we're talking about Hitchens, but even he must have thought that would be a bit too contrived.) And it is presumptuous in the extreme to purport to channel Hitchens, putting words in his mouth that are not really his. Like this guy: Originally Posted by Christopher Hitchens, "channelled" by some guy In my life, I have said that I would not undergo a 'deathbed conversion' to any religious creed. This, my last promise that I could possibly have kept, I kept indeed. To those who say that I did not keep my word, I say this: A deathbed conversion is of no value whatsoever. Even if such a conversion does occur, what does it prove? It certainly does not prove the validity the faith to which the new adherent swears his brief allegiance, nor does it prove the invalidity of any competing faith to which the dying person chose not to convert. The validity of religious tenets must surely be established by their merits and their effects, not by the number of dying men who suddenly attest to them. Such a conversion may easily be attributed to fear or a loss of mental acuity, both of which often precede death. Or it may have done as a courtesy to the family, who fear that the departing loved one will be lost in the afterlife, unless words of conversion are uttered. To the dying person, it may be like a perverse Pascal's Wager, except that the payoff is not eternal life but rather is less pointless worry by loved ones. I suggest that a far more potent conversion is the post-death conversion. A person who has died, and who thereby may have acquired knowledge of use to those still living, may relate that knowledge so that conversion may be made to the correct faith in the proper course. In my life, I was aware of no instances in which post-death knowledge was imparted to the living. The play of Hamlet, in which such knowledge plays a pivotal role, is of course fiction. Nevertheless, in the event I find that I was wrong, I shall make an effort to correct my error. I shall make a post-death conversion and will try to relate what I have learned. I shall do my best not to be as terrifying as the ghost of Hamlet's father. But don't stay up late at nights just to wait for me. Originally Posted by angrysoba The only thing I half-expect to read from Hitchens is some unpublished stuff such as obituaries for Henry Kissinger or Joseph Ratzinger which might have been filed with Slate or Vanity Fair. It's not uncommon for obituaries to come out where the writer has been deceased longer than the subject of the piece. I agree. I suspect Hitch may have written an obit for Billy Graham, as an antidote for the unwarranted praise that will spew forth after Graham takes his final breath. Originally Posted by Brown We have not heard the last of Hitch. I suspect that he has written quite a bit of material that has not been published, Some of them might have been withheld for posthumous publication or because they relate to events that have not occurred. It would not surprise me, for example, if we see an obituary for Billy Graham written by Christopher Hitchens, even though Graham had the "good fortune" of outliving Hitchens. It would not surprise me to see an essay by Hitchens about the end of the Iraq occupation. It would not surprise me to see an essay, perhaps written over a very long period of time, about last-ditch efforts to convert him to some form of creed.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

28th March 2012, 03:22 AM	#374
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 25,042	For those in the UK, Hitch 22 is the Kindle Daily Deal today, so it's available for 99p. (As it happens, I already have it, I bought it on the train on my return from TAM9.)
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Last edited by zooterkin; 28th March 2012 at 03:23 AM.

17th April 2012, 01:27 AM	#375
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,821	A tribute to Christopher Hitchens, compiled by the Atheist Foundation of Australia and screened at the Global Atheist Convention in Melbourne on the weekend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR0GyYaeI-k
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

18th June 2012, 07:25 PM	#376
aviolet4u Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 372	I really miss him The feelings are strong when I come across watching a video like this one. Is there any other speaker as witty and intelligent as he was in these religious debates?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjs9P...eature=related
	Last edited by aviolet4u; 18th June 2012 at 07:26 PM.

18th June 2012, 09:18 PM	#377
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 7,011	Kissinger lives...
	__________________ *Arrested Development* is coming back! Michael (to GOB): Get rid of the Seaward. Lucille: I’ll leave when I’m good and ready.

19th June 2012, 09:18 PM	#378
Joey McGee Transcendental Naturalist Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,238	Spent a great deal of time reading Hitchens on the Iraq war today. Seems most of our ilk said it was the one thing he got wrong, oh he was right on religion etc but clearly lost the plot over jihad etc... **** it, he was right. "If the great effort to remake Iraq as a demilitarized federal and secular democracy should fail or be defeated, I shall lose sleep for the rest of my life in reproaching myself for doing too little. But at least I shall have the comfort of not having offered, so far as I can recall, any word or deed that contributed to a defeat." Seems like, on the day the war ended, he allowed himself to sleep. Cheers
	__________________ How do I know that this is so? By looking!

19th June 2012, 09:29 PM	#379
Joey McGee Transcendental Naturalist Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,238	Originally Posted by aviolet4u I really miss him The feelings are strong when I come across watching a video like this one. Is there any other speaker as witty and intelligent as he was in these religious debates?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjs9P...eature=related There will be thousands more men and women of the same integrity of Hitchens because of his work and these videos, of that I have no doubt. This is someone fighting for our inner freedom and integrity as human beings and succeeding, at least intellectually, in a way no one ever has. "I mean to say it infects us in our most basic integrity. It says: we can't be moral without 'big brother', without a totalitarian permission,..." lines that that stir something animal in us, but in the long term, they are rationally borne out, earning our admiration...
	__________________ How do I know that this is so? By looking!

19th June 2012, 10:52 PM	#380
TheGoldcountry Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1,550	Originally Posted by Cain Kissinger lives... and Hitchens is dead. Proof right there that there is no God. ETA: or maybe it is..........
	__________________ Not exactly, I'm talking about something I don't know about, if its there then it is what I am talking about and thats not nothing. -punshhh I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten