Rosetta Stone Language Software - Page 2

Doghouse Reilly · 15th June 2012, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Bloodtoes

Very interesting. I've watched a few of his videos so far and it's given me much to consider. The guy seems like he's ready to explode at any moment though.

The formality of the comments on his channel is a bit disconcerting.

Yes, he's certainly an unusual fellow. Brilliant though, in my opinion. One of the most important insights I gained from him was how to use his "shadowing" technique while using dual-language text, side by side. It's amazing how the text of the previously unknown language begins to become saturated with meaning as you continue.

You mentioned you were learning German, correct? PM me if you're interested in some high quality dual language (side by side) german text with accompanying audio.

Allecher · 16th June 2012, 06:02 PM

I have been quite impressed with the free language classes on Deutsche Welle's website. They have a placement test available for folks like me who have learned a few things in previous attempts. Then when you get more confident you can easily switch to reading the news headlines in German.

crimresearch · 16th June 2012, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly

Exactly what I meant when I said it's boring. A good program should not bore you before you have managed to master the material.

Or a good student shouldn't get bored and blame the material...

Eudaemonic Plague · 18th June 2012, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Allecher

I have been quite impressed with the free language classes on Deutsche Welle's website. They have a placement test available for folks like me who have learned a few things in previous attempts. Then when you get more confident you can easily switch to reading the news headlines in German.

I took that placement test yesterday, and was surprised at how well I did. I took a German class about forty years ago, but got kicked out of class fairly early, after refusing to accept detention for being harassed by another student (great school, eh?). I think this ought to be a useful site.

Bloodtoes · 19th June 2012, 01:51 PM

Great suggestions in this thread, thanks! I've done some more digging on the pros/cons of Rosetta Stone and combined with my own experience I think I'll stick with it, but add in some other sources with a tighter focus on grammar and the other areas in which RS lacks. It is a good program though and I'm not finding it boring at all.

Originally Posted by Allecher

I have been quite impressed with the free language classes on Deutsche Welle's website. They have a placement test available for folks like me who have learned a few things in previous attempts. Then when you get more confident you can easily switch to reading the news headlines in German.

Learning a language from a company based in the country where that language is spoken. What a novel concept! I'll definitely be making use of this website as well. Cheers.

Hershele Ostropoler · 23rd June 2012, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Cleon

Memorizing vocabulary has always been my weak point in learning languages, so this is very helpful for me.

I suspect that's more common than the converse, because grammar is a system and vocabulary isn't, but I may just think that because it's true for me.

(There's also an issue of perception, that not knowing vocabulary hinders communication more than not knowing grammar, so you can half-ass grammar at first)

Originally Posted by crimresearch

Those who just sat down a few hours every week and did the exercises until they had completed the whole package were also the students who were doing well in their coursework

Seems to me the causation is the other way, at least partly. The students who are sufficiently motivated, driven, etc. to sit down and do it are going to do better than those who are more like me. "If you slack off, you won't get anywhere" is independent of the method.

crimresearch · 26th June 2012, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Hershele Ostropoler

I suspect that's more common than the converse, because grammar is a system and vocabulary isn't, but I may just think that because it's true for me.

(There's also an issue of perception, that not knowing vocabulary hinders communication more than not knowing grammar, so you can half-ass grammar at first)

Seems to me the causation is the other way, at least partly. The students who are sufficiently motivated, driven, etc. to sit down and do it are going to do better than those who are more like me. "If you slack off, you won't get anywhere" is independent of the method.

The students who took a better approach, got better results in both RS and the ESL course, and they tended to be the same students.
I don't understand what your objection is.

Hershele Ostropoler · 27th June 2012, 02:06 PM

It looks like you're saying that industrious students who stuck it out with RS did better than lazy students who didn't. In which case I don't think the different outcomes is automatically testimony to the efficacy of RS.

cosmicaug · 27th June 2012, 02:58 PM

http ://goo.gl/QQOb

Does anyone here have any experience with Benny Lewis referred to above?

If that violates spamming policies, just notify me and remove the post. I'm not that familiar with him and I was just wondering if anyone else was.

P.S. I'm not direct linking because it is not allowed due to my low post count.

crimresearch · 27th June 2012, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Hershele Ostropoler

It looks like you're saying that industrious students who stuck it out with RS did better than lazy students who didn't. In which case I don't think the different outcomes is automatically testimony to the efficacy of RS.

I meant that there was an overlap of students who found RS too 'boring', and also found the writing lab boring, grammar boring, tutoring bring, office hours boring, pronunciation boring, the library boring, the 'speak English outside of class' policy boring...
And their found their exams, grades, and TOEFL scores 'unfair'.

There was also an overlap among students who showed good progress through the program, and into college, with those going ahead and using RS and the rest.

It wasn't the software or the course material as much as the attitudes and scholarship of each student... iMO.
\

Which going back to the OP, makes it hard for me to evaluate RS for other folks... when it 'worked', it worked in conjunction with a variety of factors, likewise when it 'didn't work'.

katy_did · 17th July 2012, 12:06 PM

Has anyone else tried Duolingo for language learning? It's promoted as the 'free alternative' to Rosetta Stone, and has the lofty aim of translating the web at the same time as teaching people languages. I've been using it for a few months now and I love it. What I particularly like is that the site makes it very easy to learn several different languages at the same time - I'm currently refreshing my high school French and (very rusty) German, and have started learning Spanish as well. I was worried that learning the three would scramble my brain, but in fact it's just made me more adept at switching between them.

My only experience with Rosetta Stone was a $30 Japanese introductory version, which I didn't really get on with and didn't seem to suit my learning style, though I'm sure the full version is much better. I'm curious to know what people who've tried Rosetta Stone think of Duolingo, given that it's marketed as an alternative to RS.

Bloodtoes · 17th July 2012, 12:31 PM

Thanks for the link! I will definitely check it out and let you know how it compares.

I'm pretty much certain that I'll be switching to Spanish as a focus though I think I'll keep my German RS around since German is pretty hilarious and fun, just impractical. I live in LA and don't speak Spanish. It's almost like living in Montréal and not speaking French. Not quite, but close. At least I will have no shortage of people to practice the language with, which is hugely important.

Startz · 24th July 2012, 08:21 AM

I liked Rosetta Stone for German, but now i'm thinking of brushing up (!) on my Swahili. Apparently, Rosetta Stone's Swahili is out of date. Any suggestions on alternatives?

MaGZ · 24th July 2012, 06:46 PM

As I first noticed this thread a Rosetta Stone commercial came on TV.

Robrob · 24th July 2012, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

As I first noticed this thread a Rosetta Stone commercial came on TV.

CONSPIRACY!

GeneMachine · 26th July 2012, 04:46 AM

Finally delurking after a long time, since language learning is on of my hobbies.

Rosetta Stone can be fun to play around with, but in my opinion, it is nothing more than a glorified flashcard system with pictures and without a proper spaced repetition system.

I find their claims regarding natural language acquisition quite dubious - secondary language acquisition does not work like primary language acquisition by an infant. Even so, primary language acquisition is not particularly efficient, requiring thousands to tenthousands of hours of structured input.

Since someone above mentioned Alexander Arguelles, I'd like to point those with a deeper interest in language learning to the forums at "How To Learn Any Language" - they contain lots of information and thoughtful discussion on various available resources and learning strategies for self-learners. I'm not associated with them in any way.

BenBurch · 26th July 2012, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by GeneMachine

Finally delurking after a long time, since language learning is on of my hobbies.

Rosetta Stone can be fun to play around with, but in my opinion, it is nothing more than a glorified flashcard system with pictures and without a proper spaced repetition system.

I find their claims regarding natural language acquisition quite dubious - secondary language acquisition does not work like primary language acquisition by an infant. Even so, primary language acquisition is not particularly efficient, requiring thousands to tenthousands of hours of structured input.

Since someone above mentioned Alexander Arguelles, I'd like to point those with a deeper interest in language learning to the forums at "How To Learn Any Language" - they contain lots of information and thoughtful discussion on various available resources and learning strategies for self-learners. I'm not associated with them in any way.

Welcome to JREF!

So, then I have a question for you if that would be OK?

I knew German as a toddler up to about age three when my folks stopped speaking it around the house to improve my English.

I really want my German back. I listen to spoken German and some of it makes sense, still, but I have a very hard time with the meanings and the vocabulary is just not there.

What would make most sense as a way to proceed?

Thanks!

GeneMachine · 26th July 2012, 01:33 PM

Thanks for the welcome!

This is actually an interesting problem - one that I never heard anything about, to be honest. I can only give you some general pointers. As usual, a lot comes down to personal preference and learning style.

Most important for me is lots of input - if you still understand some parts, that should be good for you, too. Get simple books, audio books, songs. Listen to it, read it, don't worry if you do not understand everything. This works quite well to reactivate buried stuff, at least for me. Particularly useful - get the same book in print and audio. Read, listen, reread short parts. Perhaps use it together with an English translation, depending on your level.

As for vocabulary - I haven't found anything better than simple cramming, preferentially using an electronic flashcard program with a decent spaced repetition algorithm. Anki is very good and free, although someone unintuitive to use.

I don't worry too much about active production in the beginning. Understanding comes before speaking.

Regarding more formal learning material, I am particularly fond of the Assimil courses. They cover lots of ground in short lectures and are quite cheap. The German radio station "Deutsche Welle" offers a course free course online called "Deutsch - Warum nicht?". I heard lots of good things about it, but can't comment on it myself. Haven't felt the necessity to try it as a native German speaker

That being said, if you need any particular point of our wonderfully weird grammar explained, feel free to send me a message.

Hope that helped a bit!

BenBurch · 26th July 2012, 01:47 PM

Thank you! I'll let you know in a few months how that works out.

Tsukasa Buddha · 26th July 2012, 02:19 PM

Rosetta Stone's benefit and weakness is its structure. It has lessons all set up that you go through and get feedback on.

But you can't sit down and cram a vocab list. It also gives you the "gist" of what some words mean via pictures, but exactly.

男の人は水を飲んでいます。

What tense is that? The man is drinking water? The man drinks the water? Does Japanese have the same tenses? I don't know.

Also, for kanji it definitely isn't enough to by. If you have unfamiliar characters in your language, you should study up beforehand.

Blue Bubble · 27th July 2012, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Welcome to JREF!

So, then I have a question for you if that would be OK?

I knew German as a toddler up to about age three when my folks stopped speaking it around the house to improve my English.

I really want my German back. I listen to spoken German and some of it makes sense, still, but I have a very hard time with the meanings and the vocabulary is just not there.

What would make most sense as a way to proceed?

Thanks!

Ben, I emigrated to Germany in 1978 and lived there for 17 years. Apart from getting myself a German girlfriend (and thus learning, ahem, "important" words *cough* *cough* ...), I found a good method for learning the language was basically to re-live a childhood as fast as possible. After all, isn't that where children pick up their native language ?

I got real value from watching kids' television shows, like Sesamstraße, die Biene Maja, Pippi Langstrumpf, Eins Zwei oder Drei ... and many more that I probably have forgotten now.

Besides, it was *fun*

carlitos · 27th July 2012, 07:37 AM

I am enjoying German on duolingo so far (thanks katy_did!) and I can also vouch for the Deutsche Welle podcast "Deutsch - Warum nicht?" It's on the podcast section of the iTunes store.

BenBurch · 27th July 2012, 09:50 AM

Thank you, guys!

Hershele Ostropoler · 29th July 2012, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Blue Bubble

Ben, I emigrated to Germany in 1978 and lived there for 17 years. Apart from getting myself a German girlfriend (and thus learning, ahem, "important" words *cough* *cough* ...), I found a good method for learning the language was basically to re-live a childhood as fast as possible. After all, isn't that where children pick up their native language ?

I got real value from watching kids' television shows, like Sesamstraße, die Biene Maja, Pippi Langstrumpf, Eins Zwei oder Drei ... and many more that I probably have forgotten now.

Besides, it was *fun*

I'm focused on Lithuanian right now. I think my current girlfriend would object to the first method, but I'm interested in the second, though if possible without having to move to Lithuania. Though I doubt you could get TV shows on the Internet in 1978.

Bob001 · 30th July 2012, 08:16 PM

The New York Times has published a list with short descriptions of 10 language learning programs, and several others are mentioned in the comments section. Some are available on-line. Anybody have any experiences with these?
http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/07/29...pagewanted=all

crimresearch · 30th July 2012, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bob001

The New York Times has published a list with short descriptions of 10 language learning programs, and several others are mentioned in the comments section. Some are available on-line. Anybody have any experiences with these?
http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/07/29...pagewanted=all

I've found Pimsleur to be useless for me, and I've found Transparent Language to be great, although I didn't pay anywhere near $150 for it on Amazon...

And I've only seen Rosetta Stone in an intensive academic 2nd language program, as a very small component.

cosmicaug · 1st August 2012, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by crimresearch

I've found Pimsleur to be useless for me, and I've found Transparent Language to be great, although I didn't pay anywhere near $150 for it on Amazon...

For simple vocabulary learning, Byki (which is also from Transparent Language) is pretty good. I doubt that it is any better than Anki, though. However, the greater flexibility of Anki comes at a price of greater complexity. The relative simplicity of Byki, thus, is an asset and could make it the better choice for many people.

Byki does have a free version but I think the ability of creating your own lists, which is not included in the free version (not to mention the more extensive collection of lists included with pay versions) is a great asset so if one went this route to vocabulary building it would probably make sense to pay for the Deluxe version. However, there might be plenty of free vocabulary lists out there, depending on your target language of interest, so you probably could get along perfectly well with the free version in many cases.

cosmicaug · 1st August 2012, 06:20 PM

I have not tried this yet but it looks interesting:
http://www.fluentin3months.com/learning-with-texts/

I'm not sure how it works as a local install but it looks like he's hosting an install at his site for free use. Registration is required, though. I might give it a try at some later time.

16th June 2012, 06:02 PM	#42
Allecher Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 385	I have been quite impressed with the free language classes on Deutsche Welle's website. They have a placement test available for folks like me who have learned a few things in previous attempts. Then when you get more confident you can easily switch to reading the news headlines in German.
	__________________ "When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion." -Abraham Lincoln, 16th president of the U.S. (1809-1865)

16th June 2012, 06:30 PM	#43
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly Exactly what I meant when I said it's boring. A good program should not bore you before you have managed to master the material. Or a good student shouldn't get bored and blame the material...
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

19th June 2012, 01:51 PM	#45
Bloodtoes Muse Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 519	Great suggestions in this thread, thanks! I've done some more digging on the pros/cons of Rosetta Stone and combined with my own experience I think I'll stick with it, but add in some other sources with a tighter focus on grammar and the other areas in which RS lacks. It is a good program though and I'm not finding it boring at all. Originally Posted by Allecher I have been quite impressed with the free language classes on Deutsche Welle's website. They have a placement test available for folks like me who have learned a few things in previous attempts. Then when you get more confident you can easily switch to reading the news headlines in German. Learning a language from a company based in the country where that language is spoken. What a novel concept! I'll definitely be making use of this website as well. Cheers.
	__________________ I got nothin.

26th June 2012, 09:28 PM	#47
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Originally Posted by Hershele Ostropoler I suspect that's more common than the converse, because grammar is a system and vocabulary isn't, but I may just think that because it's true for me. (There's also an issue of perception, that not knowing vocabulary hinders communication more than not knowing grammar, so you can half-ass grammar at first) Seems to me the causation is the other way, at least partly. The students who are sufficiently motivated, driven, etc. to sit down and do it are going to do better than those who are more like me. "If you slack off, you won't get anywhere" is independent of the method. The students who took a better approach, got better results in both RS and the ESL course, and they tended to be the same students. I don't understand what your objection is.
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

27th June 2012, 04:41 PM	#50
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Originally Posted by Hershele Ostropoler It looks like you're saying that industrious students who stuck it out with RS did better than lazy students who didn't. In which case I don't think the different outcomes is automatically testimony to the efficacy of RS. I meant that there was an overlap of students who found RS too 'boring', and also found the writing lab boring, grammar boring, tutoring bring, office hours boring, pronunciation boring, the library boring, the 'speak English outside of class' policy boring... And their found their exams, grades, and TOEFL scores 'unfair'. There was also an overlap among students who showed good progress through the program, and into college, with those going ahead and using RS and the rest. It wasn't the software or the course material as much as the attitudes and scholarship of each student... iMO. \ Which going back to the OP, makes it hard for me to evaluate RS for other folks... when it 'worked', it worked in conjunction with a variety of factors, likewise when it 'didn't work'.
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

15th June 2012, 10:52 PM	#41
Doghouse Reilly Adrift on an uncharted sea Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 485	Originally Posted by Bloodtoes Very interesting. I've watched a few of his videos so far and it's given me much to consider. The guy seems like he's ready to explode at any moment though. The formality of the comments on his channel is a bit disconcerting. Yes, he's certainly an unusual fellow. Brilliant though, in my opinion. One of the most important insights I gained from him was how to use his "shadowing" technique while using dual-language text, side by side. It's amazing how the text of the previously unknown language begins to become saturated with meaning as you continue. You mentioned you were learning German, correct? PM me if you're interested in some high quality dual language (side by side) german text with accompanying audio.

18th June 2012, 05:00 AM	#44
Eudaemonic Plague Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Champaign, Illinois Posts: 137	Originally Posted by Allecher I have been quite impressed with the free language classes on Deutsche Welle's website. They have a placement test available for folks like me who have learned a few things in previous attempts. Then when you get more confident you can easily switch to reading the news headlines in German. I took that placement test yesterday, and was surprised at how well I did. I took a German class about forty years ago, but got kicked out of class fairly early, after refusing to accept detention for being harassed by another student (great school, eh?). I think this ought to be a useful site.

23rd June 2012, 08:03 PM	#46
Hershele Ostropoler Scholar Join Date: May 2010 Location: BK,NY,US Posts: 70	Originally Posted by Cleon Memorizing vocabulary has always been my weak point in learning languages, so this is very helpful for me. I suspect that's more common than the converse, because grammar is a system and vocabulary isn't, but I may just think that because it's true for me. (There's also an issue of perception, that not knowing vocabulary hinders communication more than not knowing grammar, so you can half-ass grammar at first) Originally Posted by crimresearch Those who just sat down a few hours every week and did the exercises until they had completed the whole package were also the students who were doing well in their coursework Seems to me the causation is the other way, at least partly. The students who are sufficiently motivated, driven, etc. to sit down and do it are going to do better than those who are more like me. "If you slack off, you won't get anywhere" is independent of the method.

27th June 2012, 02:06 PM	#48
Hershele Ostropoler Scholar Join Date: May 2010 Location: BK,NY,US Posts: 70	It looks like you're saying that industrious students who stuck it out with RS did better than lazy students who didn't. In which case I don't think the different outcomes is automatically testimony to the efficacy of RS.

27th June 2012, 02:58 PM	#49
cosmicaug Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 344	http ://goo.gl/QQOb Does anyone here have any experience with Benny Lewis referred to above? If that violates spamming policies, just notify me and remove the post. I'm not that familiar with him and I was just wondering if anyone else was. P.S. I'm not direct linking because it is not allowed due to my low post count.

17th July 2012, 12:06 PM	#51
katy_did Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,579	Has anyone else tried Duolingo for language learning? It's promoted as the 'free alternative' to Rosetta Stone, and has the lofty aim of translating the web at the same time as teaching people languages. I've been using it for a few months now and I love it. What I particularly like is that the site makes it very easy to learn several different languages at the same time - I'm currently refreshing my high school French and (very rusty) German, and have started learning Spanish as well. I was worried that learning the three would scramble my brain, but in fact it's just made me more adept at switching between them. My only experience with Rosetta Stone was a $30 Japanese introductory version, which I didn't really get on with and didn't seem to suit my learning style, though I'm sure the full version is much better. I'm curious to know what people who've tried Rosetta Stone think of Duolingo, given that it's marketed as an alternative to RS.
	__________________ _{"All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil, to crazy Ahab, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Moby Dick".}

17th July 2012, 12:31 PM	#52
Bloodtoes Muse Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 519	Thanks for the link! I will definitely check it out and let you know how it compares. I'm pretty much certain that I'll be switching to Spanish as a focus though I think I'll keep my German RS around since German is pretty hilarious and fun, just impractical. I live in LA and don't speak Spanish. It's almost like living in Montréal and not speaking French. Not quite, but close. At least I will have no shortage of people to practice the language with, which is hugely important.
	__________________ I got nothin. Last edited by Bloodtoes; 17th July 2012 at 12:44 PM.

24th July 2012, 08:21 AM	#53
Startz Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 388	I liked Rosetta Stone for German, but now i'm thinking of brushing up (!) on my Swahili. Apparently, Rosetta Stone's Swahili is out of date. Any suggestions on alternatives?

24th July 2012, 06:46 PM	#54
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	As I first noticed this thread a Rosetta Stone commercial came on TV.
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319

24th July 2012, 08:04 PM	#55
Robrob Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,660	Originally Posted by MaGZ As I first noticed this thread a Rosetta Stone commercial came on TV. CONSPIRACY!
Robrob Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,660

26th July 2012, 04:46 AM	#56
GeneMachine Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Bavaria Posts: 332	Finally delurking after a long time, since language learning is on of my hobbies. Rosetta Stone can be fun to play around with, but in my opinion, it is nothing more than a glorified flashcard system with pictures and without a proper spaced repetition system. I find their claims regarding natural language acquisition quite dubious - secondary language acquisition does not work like primary language acquisition by an infant. Even so, primary language acquisition is not particularly efficient, requiring thousands to tenthousands of hours of structured input. Since someone above mentioned Alexander Arguelles, I'd like to point those with a deeper interest in language learning to the forums at "How To Learn Any Language" - they contain lots of information and thoughtful discussion on various available resources and learning strategies for self-learners. I'm not associated with them in any way.

26th July 2012, 10:25 AM	#57
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,095	Originally Posted by GeneMachine Finally delurking after a long time, since language learning is on of my hobbies. Rosetta Stone can be fun to play around with, but in my opinion, it is nothing more than a glorified flashcard system with pictures and without a proper spaced repetition system. I find their claims regarding natural language acquisition quite dubious - secondary language acquisition does not work like primary language acquisition by an infant. Even so, primary language acquisition is not particularly efficient, requiring thousands to tenthousands of hours of structured input. Since someone above mentioned Alexander Arguelles, I'd like to point those with a deeper interest in language learning to the forums at "How To Learn Any Language" - they contain lots of information and thoughtful discussion on various available resources and learning strategies for self-learners. I'm not associated with them in any way. Welcome to JREF! So, then I have a question for you if that would be OK? I knew German as a toddler up to about age three when my folks stopped speaking it around the house to improve my English. I really want my German back. I listen to spoken German and some of it makes sense, still, but I have a very hard time with the meanings and the vocabulary is just not there. What would make most sense as a way to proceed? Thanks!
	__________________ Are you IN? Join the IN crowd now!

26th July 2012, 01:33 PM	#58
GeneMachine Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Bavaria Posts: 332	Thanks for the welcome! This is actually an interesting problem - one that I never heard anything about, to be honest. I can only give you some general pointers. As usual, a lot comes down to personal preference and learning style. Most important for me is lots of input - if you still understand some parts, that should be good for you, too. Get simple books, audio books, songs. Listen to it, read it, don't worry if you do not understand everything. This works quite well to reactivate buried stuff, at least for me. Particularly useful - get the same book in print and audio. Read, listen, reread short parts. Perhaps use it together with an English translation, depending on your level. As for vocabulary - I haven't found anything better than simple cramming, preferentially using an electronic flashcard program with a decent spaced repetition algorithm. Anki is very good and free, although someone unintuitive to use. I don't worry too much about active production in the beginning. Understanding comes before speaking. Regarding more formal learning material, I am particularly fond of the Assimil courses. They cover lots of ground in short lectures and are quite cheap. The German radio station "Deutsche Welle" offers a course free course online called "Deutsch - Warum nicht?". I heard lots of good things about it, but can't comment on it myself. Haven't felt the necessity to try it as a native German speaker That being said, if you need any particular point of our wonderfully weird grammar explained, feel free to send me a message. Hope that helped a bit!

26th July 2012, 01:47 PM	#59
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,095	Thank you! I'll let you know in a few months how that works out.
	__________________ Are you IN? Join the IN crowd now!

26th July 2012, 02:19 PM	#60
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 9,892	Rosetta Stone's benefit and weakness is its structure. It has lessons all set up that you go through and get feedback on. But you can't sit down and cram a vocab list. It also gives you the "gist" of what some words mean via pictures, but exactly. 男の人は水を飲んでいます。 What tense is that? The man is drinking water? The man drinks the water? Does Japanese have the same tenses? I don't know. Also, for kanji it definitely isn't enough to by. If you have unfamiliar characters in your language, you should study up beforehand.
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

27th July 2012, 03:55 AM	#61
Blue Bubble Sharper than a thorn Join Date: May 2005 Location: Duxford, Cambridgeshire, UK Posts: 2,221	Originally Posted by BenBurch Welcome to JREF! So, then I have a question for you if that would be OK? I knew German as a toddler up to about age three when my folks stopped speaking it around the house to improve my English. I really want my German back. I listen to spoken German and some of it makes sense, still, but I have a very hard time with the meanings and the vocabulary is just not there. What would make most sense as a way to proceed? Thanks! Ben, I emigrated to Germany in 1978 and lived there for 17 years. Apart from getting myself a German girlfriend (and thus learning, ahem, "important" words cough cough ...), I found a good method for learning the language was basically to re-live a childhood as fast as possible. After all, isn't that where children pick up their native language ? I got real value from watching kids' television shows, like Sesamstraße, die Biene Maja, Pippi Langstrumpf, Eins Zwei oder Drei ... and many more that I probably have forgotten now. Besides, it was fun

27th July 2012, 07:37 AM	#62
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 11,474	I am enjoying German on duolingo so far (thanks katy_did!) and I can also vouch for the Deutsche Welle podcast "Deutsch - Warum nicht?" It's on the podcast section of the iTunes store.

27th July 2012, 09:50 AM	#63
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,095	Thank you, guys!
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29th July 2012, 07:17 PM	#64
Hershele Ostropoler Scholar Join Date: May 2010 Location: BK,NY,US Posts: 70	Originally Posted by Blue Bubble Ben, I emigrated to Germany in 1978 and lived there for 17 years. Apart from getting myself a German girlfriend (and thus learning, ahem, "important" words cough cough ...), I found a good method for learning the language was basically to re-live a childhood as fast as possible. After all, isn't that where children pick up their native language ? I got real value from watching kids' television shows, like Sesamstraße, die Biene Maja, Pippi Langstrumpf, Eins Zwei oder Drei ... and many more that I probably have forgotten now. Besides, it was fun I'm focused on Lithuanian right now. I think my current girlfriend would object to the first method, but I'm interested in the second, though if possible without having to move to Lithuania. Though I doubt you could get TV shows on the Internet in 1978.
	__________________ Realiza su sueño "Thank heaven for little girls" --Humbert Humbert

30th July 2012, 08:16 PM	#65
Bob001 Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 881	The New York Times has published a list with short descriptions of 10 language learning programs, and several others are mentioned in the comments section. Some are available on-line. Anybody have any experiences with these? http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/07/29...pagewanted=all
Bob001 Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 881

30th July 2012, 09:55 PM	#66
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Originally Posted by Bob001 The New York Times has published a list with short descriptions of 10 language learning programs, and several others are mentioned in the comments section. Some are available on-line. Anybody have any experiences with these? http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/07/29...pagewanted=all I've found Pimsleur to be useless for me, and I've found Transparent Language to be great, although I didn't pay anywhere near $150 for it on Amazon... And I've only seen Rosetta Stone in an intensive academic 2nd language program, as a very small component.
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

1st August 2012, 01:38 PM	#67
cosmicaug Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 344	Originally Posted by crimresearch I've found Pimsleur to be useless for me, and I've found Transparent Language to be great, although I didn't pay anywhere near $150 for it on Amazon... For simple vocabulary learning, Byki (which is also from Transparent Language) is pretty good. I doubt that it is any better than Anki, though. However, the greater flexibility of Anki comes at a price of greater complexity. The relative simplicity of Byki, thus, is an asset and could make it the better choice for many people. Byki does have a free version but I think the ability of creating your own lists, which is not included in the free version (not to mention the more extensive collection of lists included with pay versions) is a great asset so if one went this route to vocabulary building it would probably make sense to pay for the Deluxe version. However, there might be plenty of free vocabulary lists out there, depending on your target language of interest, so you probably could get along perfectly well with the free version in many cases.

1st August 2012, 06:20 PM	#68
cosmicaug Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 344	I have not tried this yet but it looks interesting: http://www.fluentin3months.com/learning-with-texts/ I'm not sure how it works as a local install but it looks like he's hosting an install at his site for free use. Registration is required, though. I might give it a try at some later time.