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Abdul Alhazred · 12th August 2012, 12:25 PM

Wealth is created by labor. Yes, even in a government infrastructure program. And any wealth extracted from the rich by the government was created by labor, even if not the labor of the one who accumulated the wealth.

The difference between Adam Smith and Karl Marx about this is the morality of capitalist wealth accumulation. Not the facts of where wealth comes from.

So the government cannot extract more wealth from the economy than has been created by labor.

Both parties reject this. The only difference between Democrats and Republicans is who they say deserves the Magic Cargo.

Tsukasa Buddha · 12th August 2012, 02:34 PM

What? The labor theory of value, shared by Marx and other classical economists, is largely regarded as complete bunk today. I've only seen remnant Commies try to defend it.

theprestige · 12th August 2012, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Abdul Alhazred

Wealth is created by labor. Yes, even in a government infrastructure program. And any wealth extracted from the rich by the government was created by labor, even if not the labor of the one who accumulated the wealth.

The difference between Adam Smith and Karl Marx about this is the morality of capitalist wealth accumulation. Not the facts of where wealth comes from.

So the government cannot extract more wealth from the economy than has been created by labor.

Both parties reject this. The only difference between Democrats and Republicans is who they say deserves the Magic Cargo.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6047/6...5a36137d83.jpg

I can see what idea you're trying to express, and it's an interesting idea, probably worth discussing.

Unfortunately, you really should have researched the term "labor theory of value" before including it in your idea. As it is, you've misunderstood it so badly that your OP is not even wrong, and you kinda look like an ignorant troll.

Abdul Alhazred · 12th August 2012, 03:29 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value

Hmm.

I guess the Magic Cargo theory of value *is* the new orthodoxy and anyone who says otherwise is "ignorant".

Tsukasa Buddha · 12th August 2012, 03:42 PM

KoihimeNakamura · 12th August 2012, 06:57 PM

Not sure if serious..

theprestige · 12th August 2012, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Abdul Alhazred

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value

Hmm.

I guess the Magic Cargo theory of value *is* the new orthodoxy and anyone who says otherwise is "ignorant".

You guess wrong. The Magic Cargo theory of value is something you just made, immediately after showing stupendous ignorance about the labor theory of value.

May I suggest you stick to discussing one or the other, at least until everybody (including yourself) actually figures out what you're on about?

Dancing David · 13th August 2012, 04:32 AM

There are multiple components to value, which is a problem at times, the tulip bubble, dot com bubble, the IPO of Facebook, value is an interesting concept, but has multiple components.

take the value of new cars and diamonds, they drop as soon as you buy them, the price of scarce commodities or perceived values as in fashion runway dresses and the like.

12th August 2012, 12:25 PM	#1
Abdul Alhazred Yes, that one. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 5,508	Labor theory of value versus Magic Cargo theory of value. Wealth is created by labor. Yes, even in a government infrastructure program. And any wealth extracted from the rich by the government was created by labor, even if not the labor of the one who accumulated the wealth. The difference between Adam Smith and Karl Marx about this is the morality of capitalist wealth accumulation. Not the facts of where wealth comes from. So the government cannot extract more wealth from the economy than has been created by labor. Both parties reject this. The only difference between Democrats and Republicans is who they say deserves the Magic Cargo.
	__________________ The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation.

12th August 2012, 02:34 PM	#2
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 10,037	What? The labor theory of value, shared by Marx and other classical economists, is largely regarded as complete bunk today. I've only seen remnant Commies try to defend it.
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

12th August 2012, 03:12 PM	#3
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,905	Originally Posted by Abdul Alhazred Wealth is created by labor. Yes, even in a government infrastructure program. And any wealth extracted from the rich by the government was created by labor, even if not the labor of the one who accumulated the wealth. The difference between Adam Smith and Karl Marx about this is the morality of capitalist wealth accumulation. Not the facts of where wealth comes from. So the government cannot extract more wealth from the economy than has been created by labor. Both parties reject this. The only difference between Democrats and Republicans is who they say deserves the Magic Cargo. http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6047/6...5a36137d83.jpg I can see what idea you're trying to express, and it's an interesting idea, probably worth discussing. Unfortunately, you really should have researched the term "labor theory of value" before including it in your idea. As it is, you've misunderstood it so badly that your OP is not even wrong, and you kinda look like an ignorant troll.
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,905

12th August 2012, 03:29 PM	#4
Abdul Alhazred Yes, that one. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 5,508	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value Hmm. I guess the Magic Cargo theory of value is the new orthodoxy and anyone who says otherwise is "ignorant".
	__________________ The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation.

12th August 2012, 03:42 PM	#5
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 10,037
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

12th August 2012, 06:57 PM	#6
KoihimeNakamura Creativity Murderer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Graham, WA Posts: 6,926	Not sure if serious..
	__________________ Don't mind me.

12th August 2012, 10:14 PM	#7
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,905	Originally Posted by Abdul Alhazred http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value Hmm. I guess the Magic Cargo theory of value is the new orthodoxy and anyone who says otherwise is "ignorant". You guess wrong. The Magic Cargo theory of value is something you just made, immediately after showing stupendous ignorance about the labor theory of value. May I suggest you stick to discussing one or the other, at least until everybody (including yourself) actually figures out what you're on about?
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,905

13th August 2012, 04:32 AM	#8
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,931	There are multiple components to value, which is a problem at times, the tulip bubble, dot com bubble, the IPO of Facebook, value is an interesting concept, but has multiple components. take the value of new cars and diamonds, they drop as soon as you buy them, the price of scarce commodities or perceived values as in fashion runway dresses and the like.
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager