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Tags D.I.D. , Dr. Phil , false memory syndrome , Judy Byington , mind control , mpd , multiple personalities , recovered memory therapy , satanic ritual abuse

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Old 21st December 2013, 02:17 PM   #2001
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Brought me close to tears.

Thank you (I think).
Thanks very much for reading.
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Old 26th January 2014, 02:19 PM   #2002
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Originally Posted by Altus View Post
Do you mean the guy who wrote the introduction to the book that this thread is largely about?

The guy who won the JREF Pigasus award with this invention? http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfa...ebeam_of_e.php
From the article: "Dr. Ross admitted that he did read comic books as a kid, but said that he did not get the idea from the X-Men: “I used to love the standard stuff: Green Lantern, The Flash, Batman, but probably I liked Atom Ant best.”

I see what his problem is: During the sixties he was reading DC Comics instead of the then-far superior Marvel line.
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Old 27th January 2014, 06:57 AM   #2003
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Originally Posted by Bitsko View Post
From the article: "Dr. Ross admitted that he did read comic books as a kid, but said that he did not get the idea from the X-Men: “I used to love the standard stuff: Green Lantern, The Flash, Batman, but probably I liked Atom Ant best.”
Atom Ant was never a "standard" comic book; the little fellow appeared almost solely as a short-lived Hanna-Barbera animated TV series, except for a couple of very brief comic book cameos with other characters. I suspect Dr. Ross is thinking of The Atom, which really was a standard comic series.

So in other words, Dr. Ross's fond recollection of reading Adam Ant comics as a child is almost certainly...a false memory.
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Old 30th January 2014, 07:30 PM   #2004
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In the news today...

The Psychiatric Times has pulled a piece on the history of the SRA panic by Richard Noll out of (I gather) fears of legal retribution from the psychiatrists it damns for promoting SRA myths and MPD.

But you can read a pdf of the article here:

http://www.garygreenbergonline.com/w...2013-12-06.pdf
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Old 30th January 2014, 07:32 PM   #2005
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Meanwhile, former Chair of the DSM-IV Task Force, Allen Frances speaks up against MPD/DID in the Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/allen-...b_4695915.html

A nice snippet:

"Having seen hundreds of patients who claimed to house multiple personalities, I have concluded that the diagnosis is always (or at least almost always) a fake, even though the patients claiming it are usually (but not always) sincere."
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Old 31st January 2014, 01:36 PM   #2006
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
The Psychiatric Times has pulled a piece on the history of the SRA panic by Richard Noll out of (I gather) fears of legal retribution from the psychiatrists it damns for promoting SRA myths and MPD.

But you can read a pdf of the article here:

http://www.garygreenbergonline.com/w...2013-12-06.pdf
Thanks for posting this, Orphia! Dr. John Nardo offers some insight on his blog about why Dr. Noll's article was pulled:

Quote:
So Dr. Noll suggests that enough time has passed, and perhaps we can do a retrospective and see what all of that was about – thus When Psychiatry Battled the Devil in the Psychiatric Times – well written and definitely fascinating. Then the article disappeared. I thought it was a glitch in my browser, but no – it was just gone. I was looking to write about it, but nothing was there to write about. Then I found out it had been pulled. It seemed they were concerned about liability. They had sent it to Dr. Kluft, and apparently he raised a stink of some kind, though it’s hard to figure out why – it’s a very matter-of-fact recounting of the story. So, the Psychiatric Times has gone back and forth several times, but the most recent report is that the article is on hold – a big sleep kind of hold. I don’t know the details, nor does Richard. But it appears that his article has disappeared just like the whole Satanic Ritual Abuse issue did twenty years ago.
Kluft was a keynote speaker at the 2013 ISSTD conference in November. He's still a huge promoter of the Satanic Ritual Abuse / Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality Disorder) narrative.

In addition to the MPD/DID piece, Allen Frances also wrote a recent article article on Satanic Ritual Abuse:

Quote:
Anyone who thinks it improbable that anything so dumb and destructive could ever happen again need only google "satanic ritual abuse." You will find a wealth of reckless and nutty how-to guides ready to lure the gullible into a new round of similar primitive thinking and witch hunts. And there is no shortage of gullible people -- a recent survey indicates that a majority of Americans still believe in demonic possession. The percentages would be even higher in many parts of the world that are even less developed than we are.

If we don't recall this disaster and learn from its lessons, we are likely to repeat it -- possibly in the near future.
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Old 6th February 2014, 04:54 PM   #2007
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wow take a look at these guys http://ritualabusefree.org/ they seem to be some of the orignal promoters of SRA and they are still around today.... and one of these promoters claim that she was an SRA victim herself!

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Old 6th February 2014, 06:01 PM   #2008
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There is, or was, a fellow named Preston Nichols who claims to have been abducted by the government as a child and subjected to ritualized sexual abuse as part of a top secret Air Force child-super-soldier time-travel project (it's complicated). The culmination of the "project" was some big experiment at a base in Montauk, New York, which went badly and all the people involved with the project were brainwashed and given new memories. Has anybody else heard about this story?

At any rate, Preston "recovered" his memories and wrote some progressively-weirder books about the project, which started off as some nominally sci-fi story about technological time travel and morphed into some metaphysical goulash with psychic powers and encounters with mythological figures and a time-travel portal powered by human orgasms. And evidently people would read these books and "feel some connection" with the events therein, would visit Preston, and after spending some time with him would likewise "recover" memories of things that happened during the project. There are parallels to be drawn between SRA and Preston's "microcult", I think.
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Old 6th February 2014, 07:01 PM   #2009
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
There is, or was, a fellow named Preston Nichols who claims to have been abducted by the government as a child and subjected to ritualized sexual abuse as part of a top secret Air Force child-super-soldier time-travel project (it's complicated). The culmination of the "project" was some big experiment at a base in Montauk, New York, which went badly and all the people involved with the project were brainwashed and given new memories. Has anybody else heard about this story?

At any rate, Preston "recovered" his memories and wrote some progressively-weirder books about the project, which started off as some nominally sci-fi story about technological time travel and morphed into some metaphysical goulash with psychic powers and encounters with mythological figures and a time-travel portal powered by human orgasms. And evidently people would read these books and "feel some connection" with the events therein, would visit Preston, and after spending some time with him would likewise "recover" memories of things that happened during the project. There are parallels to be drawn between SRA and Preston's "microcult", I think.
Yes, I heard a bit about this story. It's based on the rather avant-garde theory that human orgasms can tear open the fabric of time, and that the orgasms of teenage males are the strongest orgasms of all -- thus a bunch of teen boys all getting it off simultaneously actually allows for time travel (or something). I can't even begin to speculate on what kind of mind would conceive such a harebrained and perverted idea, but I suppose it earns a point or two for novelty. (I guess those circle jerks back in the Boy Scouts were a lot more dangerous than we ever gave them credit for.)
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Old 6th February 2014, 07:27 PM   #2010
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Has it ever occurred to you that people don't talk about ritual satanic abuse because its real? haha
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Old 6th February 2014, 07:32 PM   #2011
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Originally Posted by MNBrant View Post
Has it ever occurred to you that people don't talk about ritual satanic abuse because its real? haha
Now that you mention the possibility -- No.
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Old 6th February 2014, 07:51 PM   #2012
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People do talk about satanic ritual abuse. This thread alone has over 2000 posts and was begun over a year ago.
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Old 6th February 2014, 08:14 PM   #2013
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Originally Posted by wakawakawaka View Post
wow take a look at these guys http://ritualabusefree.org/ they seem to be some of the orignal promoters of SRA and they are still around today.... and one of these promoters claim that she was an SRA victim herself!
That there is a container ship full of crazy.

It insults the eyes and the intelligence.
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Old 7th February 2014, 04:19 PM   #2014
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Extremely thorough piece on DID/MPD, Recovered Memories and Castlewood Treatment Center by Eddy Cara:

http://www.grumblesandrumbles.com/2013/12/20/shades/

If you only read one article on skepticism this week, I hope it's this one.
It beggars belief that this could go any further.
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Old 7th February 2014, 04:57 PM   #2015
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Now that you mention the possibility -- No.
not really no since all we have is gradiose claims but no actual proof and evidence
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Old 7th February 2014, 04:58 PM   #2016
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
That there is a container ship full of crazy.

It insults the eyes and the intelligence.
do you think there is a point in trying to correct them or refute them? how do you think they will react when you show that all evidence they have of SRA fails on all fronts?
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Old 7th February 2014, 05:14 PM   #2017
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Originally Posted by wakawakawaka View Post
do you think there is a point in trying to correct them or refute them? how do you think they will react when you show that all evidence they have of SRA fails on all fronts?
I think it's wisest not to engage them directly.

"You can't reason someone out of something they weren't reasoned into."
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Old 7th February 2014, 06:29 PM   #2018
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
I think it's wisest not to engage them directly.

"You can't reason someone out of something they weren't reasoned into."
ok i see, those two from the website i showed you are some of the weirdest SRA nutters still out their, one of them still is convinced that she was a SRA victim, still could someone get rid of my post from 5:05 PM? it was an accident

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Old 8th February 2014, 09:42 AM   #2019
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
Yes, I heard a bit about this story. It's based on the rather avant-garde theory that human orgasms can tear open the fabric of time, and that the orgasms of teenage males are the strongest orgasms of all -- thus a bunch of teen boys all getting it off simultaneously actually allows for time travel (or something). I can't even begin to speculate on what kind of mind would conceive such a harebrained and perverted idea, but I suppose it earns a point or two for novelty. (I guess those circle jerks back in the Boy Scouts were a lot more dangerous than we ever gave them credit for.)
Your experiences in the Boy Scouts seem more colourful than mine.
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Old 10th February 2014, 12:32 PM   #2020
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David Shurter and Pat Goodwin have been heavily promoting their conference on Amazon, and David made this statement recently:

Quote:
Colin Ross asked to speak at the conference- and HE GOT TOLD NO.

I sort of hope Colin Ross decides to weigh in on this. Ross must really be falling on hard times if he's actually requesting to speak at such an event, and worse, being turned down.


(Shurter's comment archived here)
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Old 18th February 2014, 03:23 PM   #2021
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Just came across this
http://www.vice.com/read/ritual-abus...uary-vielseits

I don't know how widespread the belief in ritual abuse is in Germany, but I'm beyond pissed that this 'journalist' reprinted the claims made by the doctor in charge of the shelter so uncritically.
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Old 18th February 2014, 10:48 PM   #2022
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Originally Posted by The Charnel Expanse View Post
The comments are mostly skeptical.

This woman sounds like she should be on the other side of the therapist's desk.

Originally Posted by The Charnel Expanse View Post
I don't know how widespread the belief in ritual abuse is in Germany<...>
There are only 3 therapists in Germany listed in the ISST-D therapist database. Oddly this woman isn't one of them, but then, she's probably got a conspiracy theory about them, too.

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Old 19th February 2014, 11:57 AM   #2023
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
The comments are mostly skeptical.
Yeah, except the ones that aren't. I commented on the fact that Vice were repeating the woman's claims uncritically and got called
Quote:
a [expletive deleted] idiot who is complicit in hiding the abusers. you are lower than [expletive deleted].


Quote:
There are only 3 therapists in Germany listed in the ISST-D therapist database. Oddly this woman isn't one of them, but then, she's probably got a conspiracy theory about them, too.
She appears to have had 3 books published with the most recent focusing strictly on DID.
http://www.komtra.info/der-beirat.html

They're in German, though. I wonder if someone here who speaks the language could be bothered to review them.
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Old 19th February 2014, 05:00 PM   #2024
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Originally Posted by The Charnel Expanse View Post
Just came across this
http://www.vice.com/read/ritual-abus...uary-vielseits

I don't know how widespread the belief in ritual abuse is in Germany, but I'm beyond pissed that this 'journalist' reprinted the claims made by the doctor in charge of the shelter so uncritically.
Thanks for sharing this, and I see that you've incurred the wrath of the conspiracy theorists. I just don't understand how they can miss all the contradictions here?

-- "From an outsider's perspective, these are women who appear to have led seemingly normal lives—their everyday persona wouldn't have been aware of the abuse they were subjected to at night, weekends, or on school holidays."

-- "The victims are subjected to near-death situations—with the help of electric shocks, waterboarding, or other forms of torture—from an early age, and then they're "rescued" by their tormentors."

-- "They place their victims in near-death situations by extreme violence just for the sake of it."

This seems to be the standard litany for "ritual abuse survivors". They all claim to have experienced sadistic torture, "extreme violence" and "near-death situations" yet there's never anyone from their past who remembers anything being out of the ordinary; no one ever remembers any physical injuries, and they never seem to have any scars. It's horrifying that this quack psychotherapist manages to stay in business.

Of course, the therapist says: "We see fresh wounds and scars on the bodies of victims daily. We have an abundance of abuser names, crime scenes, and documented experiences. A few women here have photos and other things documenting the abuse."

Yet, they rarely go to the police, because when they have in the past: "Often an identity that is still loyal to the network will purposefully mislead officers so that police investigate, only to find that none of the claims are true."

So, their claims often turn out to be false, and this psychotherapist deals with that by no longer reporting these (alleged) violent crimes.

And then she implicates the entire community: "Clients [the same clients who give false reports to investigators!] report that people from all different walks of life and from all occupation groups are part of the networks. They range from the police to the judiciary, people in public administration, university lecturers, medical workers, psychologists, hypnotists, politicians.... Certain names come up repeatedly. In exchange with other clients and colleagues across Germany, we are able to cross-validate these names. Some are renowned, award-winning people."

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Old 19th February 2014, 06:51 PM   #2025
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Originally Posted by Dismember View Post
Thanks for sharing this, and I see that you've incurred the wrath of the conspiracy theorists. I just don't understand how they can miss all the contradictions here?

-- "From an outsider's perspective, these are women who appear to have led seemingly normal lives—their everyday persona wouldn't have been aware of the abuse they were subjected to at night, weekends, or on school holidays."

-- "The victims are subjected to near-death situations—with the help of electric shocks, waterboarding, or other forms of torture—from an early age, and then they're "rescued" by their tormentors."

-- "They place their victims in near-death situations by extreme violence just for the sake of it."

This seems to be the standard litany for "ritual abuse survivors". They all claim to have experienced sadistic torture, "extreme violence" and "near-death situations" yet there's never anyone from their past who remembers anything being out of the ordinary; no one ever remembers any physical injuries, and they never seem to have any scars. It's horrifying that this quack psychotherapist manages to stay in business.

Of course, the therapist says: "We see fresh wounds and scars on the bodies of victims daily. We have an abundance of abuser names, crime scenes, and documented experiences. A few women here have photos and other things documenting the abuse."

Yet, they rarely go to the police, because when they have in the past: "Often an identity that is still loyal to the network will purposefully mislead officers so that police investigate, only to find that none of the claims are true."

So, their claims often turn out to be false, and this psychotherapist deals with that by no longer reporting these (alleged) violent crimes.

And then she implicates the entire community: "Clients [the same clients who give false reports to investigators!] report that people from all different walks of life and from all occupation groups are part of the networks. They range from the police to the judiciary, people in public administration, university lecturers, medical workers, psychologists, hypnotists, politicians.... Certain names come up repeatedly. In exchange with other clients and colleagues across Germany, we are able to cross-validate these names. Some are renowned, award-winning people."

The similarities between the modern Satanic Abuse craze and the old Witchcraze are striking. Just like the old Witch hunters here we find that the new "Witch hunters" contend that they are dealing with a vast Satanic conspiracy with people in high places commiting unspeakable acts and conspiring at the same time to conceal them.
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Old 19th February 2014, 11:13 PM   #2026
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Quote:
"Certain names come up repeatedly. In exchange with other clients and colleagues across Germany, we are able to cross-validate these names. Some are renowned, award-winning people."
Ordinary people having paranoid delusions about famous people...?

"That's just crazy talk!"

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Old 20th February 2014, 02:56 PM   #2027
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Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
The similarities between the modern Satanic Abuse craze and the old Witchcraze are striking. Just like the old Witch hunters here we find that the new "Witch hunters" contend that they are dealing with a vast Satanic conspiracy with people in high places commiting unspeakable acts and conspiring at the same time to conceal them.
Well, I decided to do a search to see if there are any such folk in Massachusetts the home of the Witch Trials. Lo and behold:

***** ******* LICSW
Brookline, MA 02446
United States

Primary Language(s) Spoken: English
Credentials: LICSW
Discipline or Specialty: Psychotherapy,Social Work
Special Interests: Adolescence, Adulthood, EMDR, Hypnosis, Ritual Abuse

And the interesting thing is she shows up in the Internal Family Systems database as well! -the same therapy used at Castlewood, home to the latest horrific Satanic Ritual Abuse lawsuits.

First Name: *****
Last Name: *******
Certifications: Hypnotherapy, EMDR, Sensorimotor Psychotherapy
Focus: Individuals, Couples, Trauma, Dissociation, Sexuality
Insurance: Medicare, BCBS
Credentials: LICSW
City: Brookline
State: Massachusetts
Zip: 02446
Country: United States

Now what's interesting is really how questionable therapies that are used to construct abuse narratives (often in people with no memory of having been abused.) Hypnotherapy has shown up in lawsuit after lawsuit in connection to false memories (to his credit, Doctor Phil did a pretty critical show about it this week where he deconstructed a woman's abuse claims - interesting how this thread has come around since starting.) Internal Family Systems, invented by Richard Schwartz (who lives Massachuesetts now after leaving Castlewood!) during the height of the repressed memory/Satanic Ritual Abuse hysteria uses role play as its foundation (it's totally non-evidence based woo and potentially dangerous because it assumes the role play is getting at the "TRUTH" and never seeks corroboration.) These therapists who specialize in narrative making BS seem to flock to it along with EMDR . Found this thread on IFS. http://www.fdrliberated.com/forum/index.php?topic=225.0

Good comment: "What makes it [Internal Family Systems] dangerous? ... Perhaps it's treating "parts" as real...because that's irrational."

So if I got to an IFS therapist and have a part that says I was "ritually abused" looks like I'll have no problem getting taken seriously and using health insurance money to pay for my treatment. What year is this and why is a BS therapy like Internal Family Systems flourishing? (Oh, by the way, I read Richard's book and on the conceal part...it says right in the book if your part is unwilling to talk about something, that's confirmation there is often something secret going on!)
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Old 21st February 2014, 04:31 PM   #2028
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I did a little search of the ritual abuse database compliments of the *professional* association I would rather not name and found there are therapists all over the country treating "ritual abuse." The problem is, it looks like they don't list that on their web pages so how can people avoid this BS if these therapists are not being up front about their delusions? One web page caught my eye from the database entirely because of its unintentional humor:

http://www.bsnowtherapy.com/

Reading through her nicely-worded site I found she claimed she used "clinically effective and empirically based techniques." Then something caught my eye: "Intermountain Sexual Abuse Treatment Center."

Oh, yeah, this Doctor Snow:

Quote:
Dr. Snow, at this stage, claimed that the children had confessed -- just as in other prominent cases throughout the country-- that they had been initiated into Satanic cults, and compelled to worship Satan. They had apparently described rituals very similar to the horrible "Feast of the Beast" that Michelle Smith had remembered and described in her 1980 book. When the police concluded their investigation in 1987, Dr. Snow had accused fourty adults -- almost all of them active Mormons in Lehi's Eight Ward -- to be ritual child abusers and members of a secret Satanic cult. Although Snow was publically and vocally backed by the Intermountain Sexual Abuse Treatment Center and by Dr. Paul L. Whitehead, public-affairs representative for the Utah Psychiatric Association, prosecutors decided to file charges against only one individual, Alan Hadfield.
http://www.cesnur.org/2001/archive/mi_mormons.htm

Still licensed, still practicing in the exact same area, apparently with our author in her backyard here trying to profit from the horrors detailed above.

How is anyone supposed to know, given the current state of mental health, what kind of care they will get when they walk through the door of a mental health professional? Where are the boards to weed these people out? I found a therapist in NYC! (This is not limited to religious areas of the country or Christians.) You can't expect the average consumer to be able to assess these licensed professionals when they are in a vulnerable state.
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Old 21st February 2014, 04:43 PM   #2029
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Originally Posted by Altus View Post
Well, I decided to do a search to see if there are any such folk in Massachusetts the home of the Witch Trials. Lo and behold:

Don't forget that the illustrious Neil Brick, licensed, practicing Mental Health Counselor and Illuminati super-assassin,** also lives in Massachusetts. For those just tuning in, here are Brick's own words about his childhood/adolescent experience as a Satanic Ritual Abuse victim, and later as a super-solider for the Satanists/Illuminati.

On his website, 6th paragraph from the end, Brick says:
Originally Posted by Neil Brick
"The other personality was one that had little or no feeling, one that just did what it had to do and was able to shut out most or all of my feelings. This one developed after the original traumas at home in an early age, one that could clean up or make myself feel better after the abuse. In cult rituals, this one just did what needed to be done, watch for those outside the room or the place, bring the needed ritual items, or rape or kill without feeling when feeling wasn’t wanted or needed, just to finish things up without a lot of theater."

From the same lecture, end of the 17th paragraph:
Originally Posted by Neil Brick
So behind my stubbornness there is a lot of very strong anger. The anger is something I am still working on, it manifests itself when I am sitting for long periods of time, like when I am on the computer. Being restrained and watching a cursor flash while reading survivor material sometimes causes this anger to occur.

And the 21st paragraph:
Originally Posted by Neil Brick
I may walk into something or stub my toe or bang my head on something so that I can get the severe anger out by cursing loudly through a co-conscious but very angry cult or protector personality. I may curse or scream and bang things. I have worked through so much anger over the last 20 plus years, but there still seems to be so much in my mind from all the tortures and humiliations done to me.

Neil Brick: a practicing therapist with unresolved anger issues; who engages in self-harm and acts out in anger. A therapist that, in his own words, has committed rape and murder. I'm sure his clients aren't given this information, but they really should be. They should be able to decide for themselves if they're willing to be treated by a counselor who's deeply, perhaps dangerously delusional himself (or, assuming he's sane, is actually a rapist and murderer).

In another lecture, 9th paragraph, he says:
Originally Posted by Neil Brick
I have one memory of killing someone in Eastern Europe, it felt like that part of the world. He was sort of asleep and he knew this would happen, it must have been in the late 60′s by the way he looked. He was some sort of up and coming political person the CIA/Illuminati didn’t want in power. He knew it was his time though. He said (in his own language) go ahead and do it, or at least I perceived this. So I did it.

Many of you probably already know that Brick also holds conferences and online seminars for which other mental health professional can get Continuing Education Credits. It's hard not to become jaded about the entire mental health care system when a guy like Neil Brick not only stays licensed and remains in practice, but actually charges money to spread his dangerous quackery to other professionals.

** a super-assassin who stands about 5'6" and weighs all of 120 lbs
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Old 23rd February 2014, 03:29 PM   #2030
The Charnel Expanse
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Originally Posted by Dismember View Post

** a super-assassin who stands about 5'6" and weighs all of 120 lbs
Well, just to play devil's advocate, size has never been correlated with skills as an assassin. I mean, Bruce Lee was roughly the same size.
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Old 23rd February 2014, 04:54 PM   #2031
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Originally Posted by The Charnel Expanse View Post
Well, just to play devil's advocate, size has never been correlated with skills as an assassin. I mean, Bruce Lee was roughly the same size.
I suppose that's true, but if you ever see any of his youtube videos or find pictures of him online, suffice it to say, his appearance doesn't instill confidence in his story. If I remember correctly, some of his tales include hand to hand combat, which really doesn't seem plausible at all when you see him.
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Old 24th February 2014, 11:08 AM   #2032
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Originally Posted by Dismember View Post
I suppose that's true, but if you ever see any of his youtube videos or find pictures of him online, suffice it to say, his appearance doesn't instill confidence in his story.
In other words, he is the ideal assassin because his victims would never suspect them and thus will consistently be caught off guard.
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Old 27th February 2014, 05:27 AM   #2033
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
In other words, he is the ideal assassin because his victims would never suspect them and thus will consistently be caught off guard.
Judging from this guy's off the wall beliefs, his *victims* might well be his suggestible patients who come to believe this crap. That he holds a MA license in mental health and also holds conferences on mindcontrol and Satanic Ritual Abuse is disturbing.
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Old 30th March 2014, 11:12 AM   #2034
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Twenty-Two Faces update

Jenny Hill's son Robert Steffen left a comment on Amazon in response to Pat Goodwin (aka "Felicity Lee", "JustAnotherSurvivor", etc):

Originally Posted by Robert Steffen
At this point, these claims of "access" are more than just silly, they're gross and macabre.

It's one thing to claim that I, or others in my family, have been "accessed". I can live with a vague, meaningless term being thrown at me as if it were evidence of anything other than an empty imagination.

But the only one who has been "accessed" is my mom, harassed at her home over the phone by people with documented histories of harassing behavior. This only after Judy was warned to discontinue her own harassing contact.

In this case, I'm defining the word "accessed" as harassed, and I'm saying the evidence only shows it coming from one direction. If you have evidence of it coming from another, present it, or stop talking about just how "accessed" I've been.

To be clear, the people who contacted Jenny Hill are Pat Goodwin and David Shurter. I'm not saying it's an iron-clad case against her, but last June or July, Judy Byington was told to stop her harassing contact with Jenny Hill, and within a few months, two of Judy's most ardent supporters ended up with Jenny Hill's contact information and took it upon themselves to attempt a visit (which apparently fell through). Their behavior has been deplorable, and Judy and Pat still have influence over quite a few very vulnerable people.

Robert, if you're still reading this thread: I certainly understand the futility of trying to engage in any kind of ongoing discussion over there. Thank you for stopping in anyway on occasion to set the record straight.
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Old 31st March 2014, 07:07 PM   #2035
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Now that's a decidedly creepy development.
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