Cognitive dissonance: what woo do you do? - Page 2

Sledge · 12th November 2012, 03:30 AM

I believe that Michael Bay and Simon Cowell are demonic entities sent to Earth to remove all joy prior to the arrival of their dark master. Again, this may be less woo and more a plain statement of fact.

EHocking · 12th November 2012, 04:49 AM

Einstein persuades me that I have mental issues.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

I fish.

LarianLeQuella · 12th November 2012, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by MrBooglemaumau

Silly superstitions ,like some folks in a particular Asian country smoking 555 cigarettes , coz it'll bring you LUCK if you smoke 'em......

Sholdn't they be 444?

catsmate1 · 12th November 2012, 06:19 AM

I have a worry stone and playing with it seems to help me relax.

wasapi · 12th November 2012, 08:08 AM

I'm posting now so that my post count no longer shows the numbers 666.

I Ratant · 12th November 2012, 08:53 AM

Survived 15 of those.

Resume · 12th November 2012, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

Survived 15 of those.

So you think.

EHocking · 12th November 2012, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Resume

Originally Posted by I Ratant

Survived 15 of those.

So you think.

His avatar photos wouldn't suggest that he survived them unscathed...

I Ratant · 12th November 2012, 04:47 PM

To the au-contraire, Monsewer..
Here's my very first picture as a baby... If anything, I've gotten cuter!
"Jay-jay" was my nickname.

Puppycow · 12th November 2012, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by bit_pattern

For example, I tend towards belief in reincarnation, I don't think its a provable hypothesis either way but in my experience of reality (particularly certain altered states) reincarnation just makes dense to me.

It makes dense to me too.

Seriously, though, it's a possibility that has occurred to me as something that can't be automatically ruled out. Why? Because incarnation is quite evidently possible. I have been incarnated, and here I am. So if something can happen once, couldn't it happen again? There are scientific theories that our universe is not the only universe. That there exist other universes ("parallel" or otherwise). That may not have anything to do with reincarnation. So I guess, like you, that I'm agnostic on the idea.

bit_pattern · 12th November 2012, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

It makes dense to me too.

Laptop died recently, been posting from my phone

I Ratant · 12th November 2012, 06:45 PM

Incarnation occurs with a well-researched physical event.
Death is the end of that process.
What is there left to get going again with another sperm-ovum conjunction?
What remnant of the now dead goes into which of the two objects?
How?
And 50% of the incarnations in mammals result in death within a month or two, without any sign of having happened at all.
What residue from these failures gets another chance?
Why?
How?

bit_pattern · 12th November 2012, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

Incarnation occurs with a well-researched physical event.
Death is the end of that process.
What is there left to get going again with another sperm-ovum conjunction?
What remnant of the now dead goes into which of the two objects?
How?
And 50% of the incarnations in mammals result in death within a month or two, without any sign of having happened at all.
What residue from these failures gets another chance?
Why?
How?

Not really the point of the thread but thanks for your observations anyway

Vic Vega · 12th November 2012, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Resume

I spend about $50 a year on lottery tickets.

If you know that the odds of winning are ridiculously low but you decide to take the chance anyway, how is this woo?

Puppycow · 12th November 2012, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by bit_pattern

Not really the point of the thread but thanks for your observations anyway

That was probably directed at me. I fully concede that my arguments are not proof of anything. Maybe it's just duelist thinking. And yet I can't quite bring myself to completely dismiss the idea. Have you ever wondered why am I me and not someone else? Am I just the atoms that make up my brain? What if there was an identical brain somewhere else? What if they had teleporters like in Star Trek? Do those teleporters send the same atoms to the destination? Would I still be me on the other side? Would it be possible to upload your mind or consciousness into a computer or transfer it to another body? I think the answer is probably no, but sometimes I wonder.

I Ratant · 13th November 2012, 12:33 AM

It's as dissonant as flipping a coin, or wearing your lucky rubber band..
Wishing doesn't make anything so, even repetitive wishing.
Doing makes things happen. Sometimes good, sometimes not so good.
Luck comes when preparation meets opportunity.
Bad luck is being unprepared. It's not failing to have one's lucky charm with him that time.

Pixel42 · 13th November 2012, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Have you ever wondered why am I me and not someone else? Am I just the atoms that make up my brain? What if there was an identical brain somewhere else? What if they had teleporters like in Star Trek? Do those teleporters send the same atoms to the destination? Would I still be me on the other side? Would it be possible to upload your mind or consciousness into a computer or transfer it to another body? I think the answer is probably no, but sometimes I wonder.

http://www.academicearth.org/courses/death

The four lectures titled "Personal Identity" would be of particular interest to you, but I highly recommend the whole course.

P.J. Denyer · 13th November 2012, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by Astreja

(Mind you, I tend to wish for such things as getting a box set of the entire Max Headroom series.)

I have it, I now wish I had the original pilot instead of the remade version (why???)

Puppycow · 13th November 2012, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

http://www.academicearth.org/courses/death

The four lectures titled "Personal Identity" would be of particular interest to you, but I highly recommend the whole course.

Thanks for the tip. I'll check that out as soon as I'm able.

Resume · 13th November 2012, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by Vic Vega

If you know that the odds of winning are ridiculously low but you decide to take the chance anyway, how is this woo?

Wish-thinking. Cognitive dissonance.

Debaser · 13th November 2012, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by Tomtomkent

More seriously: Saluting Magpies and saying one for sorrow, two for a boy, etc. More because I find it quaint than expecting any result.

Thankyou,thankyou,thankyou,thankyou.

Someone else who actually admits to it. According to wiki saluting and yes, saying 'good morning Mr Magpie' are essentially British/Irish traditions. Can't think why, doesn't everyone else see they're pure evil..EVIL, I tells ya!

HansMustermann · 13th November 2012, 09:13 AM

I would point out that if you're aware it's baseless, it's not cognitive dissonance. If it WERE actual cognitive dissonance, it would be important for you that it resolves to being true, even if reality itself is resolved as false as a price to pay. Cognitive dissonance is genuinely uncomfortable until it resolves the way you need it to.

If you think for example that it would be nice to go to heaven (or reincarnate, or whatever), but, meh, there is no evidence and you probably won't, that's not cognitive dissonance.

If you think that heaven is absolute reality, and anyone saying otherwise is... err... lacking faith, and is reading the bible out of context, and all the other BS rationalizations, and that having spewed your rationalization it makes heaven real again, now that's cognitive dissonance. Often it's easily recognizable because some people actually rush to explicitly and unilaterally claim victory for having posted a rationalization, before even seeing what the response to it might be, Bonus points if you take anyone challenging that belief as somehow hostile or evil. (Because they push you into that mental discomfort zone.)

The corollary is that the OP question is pointless. Nobody who has an actual cognitive dissonance about something, will think it's woo in the first place. They'll think it's an absolutely correct fact.

Resume · 13th November 2012, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by HansMustermann

I would point out that if you're aware it's baseless, it's not cognitive dissonance. If it WERE actual cognitive dissonance, it would be important for you that it resolves to being true, even if reality itself is resolved as false as a price to pay. Cognitive dissonance is genuinely uncomfortable until it resolves the way you need it to.

That resolution is dependent on the rationalization.

I know my odds of winning a given lottery are extremely low; but someone has to win so give me a quick pick please.

dlorde · 13th November 2012, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Pope130

I have a high respect for hunches. When I have that vague feeling that something just isn't right I'll try to find out why.

Me too; but I'll only give them serious weight if they're in an area I have a degree of experience in. Hunches without relevant experience can be horribly wrong.

I do find I sometimes need to acknowledge the non-rational, more primitive, parts of my brain. I can get spooked in the dark, I can feel uncomfortable with things for no rational reason, so I do sometimes take action to assuage those feelings. For example, occasionally I'll look in the cupboard or behind the door to reassure the primtive brain, when simply telling myself it's perfectly safe doesn't do the job.

Oh, and when stuff happens that could be annoying, like being stuck in a traffic jam, I try to find a positive, like 'it gives me time to think', or 'patience exercise', or I'll invent something, like 'I may have missed having an accident due to this'. I tell myself it's probably lucky, and smile.

If something good happens, I tell myself I'm lucky, and smile.

It does make me feel I'm lucky (whatever that actually means ).

WingerII · 13th November 2012, 02:59 PM

I cheer for specific sports teams I have no relationship with (besides proximity perhaps) under all circumstances, and have done so for years. I find it impossible to defend this rationally.

Resume · 13th November 2012, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by WingerII

I cheer for specific sports teams I have no relationship with (besides proximity perhaps) under all circumstances, and have done so for years. I find it impossible to defend this rationally.

Yeah, this one is interesting. What did the Chicago Blackhawks (Bears, Cubs) ever do for me?

The Cubs haven't even won a championship during my lifetime.

I Ratant · 13th November 2012, 05:44 PM

I've come to wonder why the performance of steroid enhanced mutant millionaires being successful playing a game improves my life, self-worth, status in any manner.

Resume · 13th November 2012, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

I've come to wonder why the performance of steroid enhanced mutant millionaires being successful playing a game improves my life, self-worth, status in any manner.

Yeah. All that money I spent on game tickets and such I could have put into lottery tickets.

Wait . . .

Sonny2 · 13th November 2012, 06:40 PM

I DO NOT believe in Bigfoot. There is zero empirical evidence that Bigfoot exists...

Until I'm all alone camping in the woods and something whacks a tree...then I still DO NOT believe they exist, but I wonder.

I Ratant · 13th November 2012, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Resume

Yeah. All that money I spent on game tickets and such I could have put into lottery tickets.

Wait . . .

.
I haven't heard of any riots over lottery tickets.

poblob14 · 14th November 2012, 06:39 AM

Okay, you're gonna love this one . . .

I'm a trial lawyer (criminal type stuff), and I travel around to do my trials, usually staying in a local hotel. On the morning of trial, I got into the habit of watching an episode of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air (because I don't need the stress of the news, and PBS Kids doesn't do it for me). And now, I NEED to do that. TBS has it streaming now, which is good, because they don't show it in the morning any more. At a minimum, on closing argument day, I need to at least hear the theme song.

Woo? OCD? Bad taste in television and rap music? YOU DECIDE!

HansMustermann · 14th November 2012, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Resume

That resolution is dependent on the rationalization.

I know my odds of winning a given lottery are extremely low; but someone has to win so give me a quick pick please.

The exact resolution and rationalization vary, but it will be SOMETHING about which you must be right, or cognitive dissonance won't happen. If the bogus thing doesn't particularly have to be rationalized as correct, it will just get discarded or corrected in the mental model.

But yes, the exact resolution depends on exactly what is impossible to let go. It might be immortality, or it can be one's sense of being an honest person despite just having done something dishonest, or (especially for us nerds) just having to be right because basically 'only dumb people are wrong', or whatever. Or in the lottery example, it might not be that you WILL win the jackpot, but it can just as well be for example that it's statistically sane to bet on a system where it's more likely to die in a car accident going to buy the ticket than to win the jackpot.

But what I'm saying is that it's an automatic blind spot. Whatever your "woo" may be, if it's important enough that it be right, you'll see it as correct, not as woo.

It's sorta like Dunning-Kruger, if you will. Sorta. When you judge whether X is factually correct, through a mental model where it HAS to be true, it will come out judged as factually correct.

Hence what I was saying is that asking me or you what's our woo, won't really produce the real stuff.

Prometheus · 14th November 2012, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by HansMustermann

The exact resolution and rationalization vary, but it will be SOMETHING about which you must be right, or cognitive dissonance won't happen. If the bogus thing doesn't particularly have to be rationalized as correct, it will just get discarded or corrected in the mental model.

But yes, the exact resolution depends on exactly what is impossible to let go. It might be immortality, or it can be one's sense of being an honest person despite just having done something dishonest, or (especially for us nerds) just having to be right because basically 'only dumb people are wrong', or whatever. Or in the lottery example, it might not be that you WILL win the jackpot, but it can just as well be for example that it's statistically sane to bet on a system where it's more likely to die in a car accident going to buy the ticket than to win the jackpot.

But what I'm saying is that it's an automatic blind spot. Whatever your "woo" may be, if it's important enough that it be right, you'll see it as correct, not as woo.

It's sorta like Dunning-Kruger, if you will. Sorta. When you judge whether X is factually correct, through a mental model where it HAS to be true, it will come out judged as factually correct.

Hence what I was saying is that asking me or you what's our woo, won't really produce the real stuff.

No matter how many times it's explained to me otherwise, I can't shake the belief that my odds of winning a million+ jackpot aren't that bad at all. Around half the adult population of the US, around 114,000,000 people, buy at least one lottery ticket each year. Around 1600 of those win payouts in excess of a million dollars each year. So while the odds of actually hitting a particular Powerball drawing may only be 1 in 176 million, the odds of a lottery player actually becoming a jackpot winner are really just 1 in 72,000. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

EdG · 18th November 2012, 09:32 AM

This PowerBall winner in Michigan combines religion with lottery betting.

Quote:

Lawson picked his own numbers, 6-27-46-51-56 and Powerball number 21, but they are not ones that he consistently plays. He said he was "guided from above" when filling out his bet slip. Prior to claiming his prize, Lawson first tucked the ticket in a Bible, then stored it in a safety deposit box.

Sadly, God has not yet given me winning lotto numbers.

Ladewig · 19th November 2012, 08:03 AM

I believe that speaking the words "things could not possibly get worse" is a taunt that the Fates will not tolerate. I do not believe in the Fates in any other situation.

12th November 2012, 03:30 AM	#41
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	I believe that Michael Bay and Simon Cowell are demonic entities sent to Earth to remove all joy prior to the arrival of their dark master. Again, this may be less woo and more a plain statement of fact.
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

12th November 2012, 04:49 AM	#42
EHocking Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,410	Einstein persuades me that I have mental issues. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results I fish.
EHocking Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,410	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke Prayer: "a sophisticated way of pleading with thunderstorms." T.Pratchett "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite Forum Birdwatching Webpage

12th November 2012, 04:59 AM	#43
LarianLeQuella Elf Wino Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: 3rd Rock from the Sun Posts: 1,995	Originally Posted by MrBooglemaumau Silly superstitions ,like some folks in a particular Asian country smoking 555 cigarettes , coz it'll bring you LUCK if you smoke 'em...... Sholdn't they be 444?
	__________________ My crappy blog that no one should be forced to read. Ever... But I like traffic and comments, so have at it if you please. Larian LeQuella Armyn ab Treanid

12th November 2012, 06:19 AM	#44
catsmate1 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Dublin (the one in Ireland) Posts: 7,136	I have a worry stone and playing with it seems to help me relax.
	__________________ Yes I gave in and configured an avatar.

12th November 2012, 08:08 AM	#45
wasapi Master Poster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,384	I'm posting now so that my post count no longer shows the numbers 666.
wasapi Master Poster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,384	__________________ Julia

12th November 2012, 08:53 AM	#46
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Survived 15 of those.

12th November 2012, 11:40 AM	#47
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,038	Originally Posted by I Ratant Survived 15 of those. So you think.
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,038

12th November 2012, 03:40 PM	#48
EHocking Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,410	Originally Posted by Resume Originally Posted by I Ratant Survived 15 of those. So you think. His avatar photos wouldn't suggest that he survived them unscathed...
EHocking Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,410	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke Prayer: "a sophisticated way of pleading with thunderstorms." T.Pratchett "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite Forum Birdwatching Webpage

12th November 2012, 06:11 PM	#50
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,789	Originally Posted by bit_pattern For example, I tend towards belief in reincarnation, I don't think its a provable hypothesis either way but in my experience of reality (particularly certain altered states) reincarnation just makes dense to me. It makes dense to me too. Seriously, though, it's a possibility that has occurred to me as something that can't be automatically ruled out. Why? Because incarnation is quite evidently possible. I have been incarnated, and here I am. So if something can happen once, couldn't it happen again? There are scientific theories that our universe is not the only universe. That there exist other universes ("parallel" or otherwise). That may not have anything to do with reincarnation. So I guess, like you, that I'm agnostic on the idea.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

12th November 2012, 06:25 PM	#51
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	Originally Posted by Puppycow It makes dense to me too. Laptop died recently, been posting from my phone
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	__________________ "You are the epitome of the 'pigeon playing chess'. No matter how good I am at chess, you are just going to knock the pieces over, **** on the board and strut around like you've won something" "In this political climate, all of science is vulnerable to ideological attack when reality disagrees with political beliefs."

12th November 2012, 06:45 PM	#52
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Incarnation occurs with a well-researched physical event. Death is the end of that process. What is there left to get going again with another sperm-ovum conjunction? What remnant of the now dead goes into which of the two objects? How? And 50% of the incarnations in mammals result in death within a month or two, without any sign of having happened at all. What residue from these failures gets another chance? Why? How?

12th November 2012, 06:56 PM	#53
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	Originally Posted by I Ratant Incarnation occurs with a well-researched physical event. Death is the end of that process. What is there left to get going again with another sperm-ovum conjunction? What remnant of the now dead goes into which of the two objects? How? And 50% of the incarnations in mammals result in death within a month or two, without any sign of having happened at all. What residue from these failures gets another chance? Why? How? Not really the point of the thread but thanks for your observations anyway
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	__________________ "You are the epitome of the 'pigeon playing chess'. No matter how good I am at chess, you are just going to knock the pieces over, **** on the board and strut around like you've won something" "In this political climate, all of science is vulnerable to ideological attack when reality disagrees with political beliefs."

12th November 2012, 07:46 PM	#54
Vic Vega Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Cradle of Liberty Posts: 1,075	Originally Posted by Resume I spend about $50 a year on lottery tickets. If you know that the odds of winning are ridiculously low but you decide to take the chance anyway, how is this woo?
	__________________ "The sleeping and the dead Are but as pictures. 'Tis the eye of childhood That fears a painted devil." --Shakespeare - Macbeth

12th November 2012, 07:48 PM	#55
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,789	Originally Posted by bit_pattern Not really the point of the thread but thanks for your observations anyway That was probably directed at me. I fully concede that my arguments are not proof of anything. Maybe it's just duelist thinking. And yet I can't quite bring myself to completely dismiss the idea. Have you ever wondered why am I me and not someone else? Am I just the atoms that make up my brain? What if there was an identical brain somewhere else? What if they had teleporters like in Star Trek? Do those teleporters send the same atoms to the destination? Would I still be me on the other side? Would it be possible to upload your mind or consciousness into a computer or transfer it to another body? I think the answer is probably no, but sometimes I wonder.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

13th November 2012, 12:33 AM	#56
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	It's as dissonant as flipping a coin, or wearing your lucky rubber band.. Wishing doesn't make anything so, even repetitive wishing. Doing makes things happen. Sometimes good, sometimes not so good. Luck comes when preparation meets opportunity. Bad luck is being unprepared. It's not failing to have one's lucky charm with him that time.

13th November 2012, 12:47 AM	#57
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wiltshire, UK Posts: 4,241	Originally Posted by Puppycow Have you ever wondered why am I me and not someone else? Am I just the atoms that make up my brain? What if there was an identical brain somewhere else? What if they had teleporters like in Star Trek? Do those teleporters send the same atoms to the destination? Would I still be me on the other side? Would it be possible to upload your mind or consciousness into a computer or transfer it to another body? I think the answer is probably no, but sometimes I wonder. http://www.academicearth.org/courses/death The four lectures titled "Personal Identity" would be of particular interest to you, but I highly recommend the whole course.
	__________________ "The correct scientific response to anything that is not understood is always to look harder for the explanation, not give up and assume a supernatural cause". David Attenborough.

13th November 2012, 03:50 AM	#58
P.J. Denyer Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,159	Originally Posted by Astreja (Mind you, I tend to wish for such things as getting a box set of the entire Max Headroom series.) I have it, I now wish I had the original pilot instead of the remade version (why???)

13th November 2012, 04:30 AM	#59
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,789	Originally Posted by Pixel42 http://www.academicearth.org/courses/death The four lectures titled "Personal Identity" would be of particular interest to you, but I highly recommend the whole course. Thanks for the tip. I'll check that out as soon as I'm able.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

13th November 2012, 04:36 AM	#60
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,038	Originally Posted by Vic Vega If you know that the odds of winning are ridiculously low but you decide to take the chance anyway, how is this woo? Wish-thinking. Cognitive dissonance.
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,038

13th November 2012, 05:27 AM	#61
Debaser Muse Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 806	Originally Posted by Tomtomkent More seriously: Saluting Magpies and saying one for sorrow, two for a boy, etc. More because I find it quaint than expecting any result. Thankyou,thankyou,thankyou,thankyou. Someone else who actually admits to it. According to wiki saluting and yes, saying 'good morning Mr Magpie' are essentially British/Irish traditions. Can't think why, doesn't everyone else see they're pure evil..EVIL, I tells ya!

13th November 2012, 09:13 AM	#62
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,849	I would point out that if you're aware it's baseless, it's not cognitive dissonance. If it WERE actual cognitive dissonance, it would be important for you that it resolves to being true, even if reality itself is resolved as false as a price to pay. Cognitive dissonance is genuinely uncomfortable until it resolves the way you need it to. If you think for example that it would be nice to go to heaven (or reincarnate, or whatever), but, meh, there is no evidence and you probably won't, that's not cognitive dissonance. If you think that heaven is absolute reality, and anyone saying otherwise is... err... lacking faith, and is reading the bible out of context, and all the other BS rationalizations, and that having spewed your rationalization it makes heaven real again, now that's cognitive dissonance. Often it's easily recognizable because some people actually rush to explicitly and unilaterally claim victory for having posted a rationalization, before even seeing what the response to it might be, Bonus points if you take anyone challenging that belief as somehow hostile or evil. (Because they push you into that mental discomfort zone.) The corollary is that the OP question is pointless. Nobody who has an actual cognitive dissonance about something, will think it's woo in the first place. They'll think it's an absolutely correct fact.
	__________________ Which part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?

13th November 2012, 09:33 AM	#63
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,038	Originally Posted by HansMustermann I would point out that if you're aware it's baseless, it's not cognitive dissonance. If it WERE actual cognitive dissonance, it would be important for you that it resolves to being true, even if reality itself is resolved as false as a price to pay. Cognitive dissonance is genuinely uncomfortable until it resolves the way you need it to. That resolution is dependent on the rationalization. I know my odds of winning a given lottery are extremely low; but someone has to win so give me a quick pick please.
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,038

13th November 2012, 01:39 PM	#64
dlorde Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,647	Originally Posted by Pope130 I have a high respect for hunches. When I have that vague feeling that something just isn't right I'll try to find out why. Me too; but I'll only give them serious weight if they're in an area I have a degree of experience in. Hunches without relevant experience can be horribly wrong. I do find I sometimes need to acknowledge the non-rational, more primitive, parts of my brain. I can get spooked in the dark, I can feel uncomfortable with things for no rational reason, so I do sometimes take action to assuage those feelings. For example, occasionally I'll look in the cupboard or behind the door to reassure the primtive brain, when simply telling myself it's perfectly safe doesn't do the job. Oh, and when stuff happens that could be annoying, like being stuck in a traffic jam, I try to find a positive, like 'it gives me time to think', or 'patience exercise', or I'll invent something, like 'I may have missed having an accident due to this'. I tell myself it's probably lucky, and smile. If something good happens, I tell myself I'm lucky, and smile. It does make me feel I'm lucky (whatever that actually means ).
dlorde Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,647	__________________ Simple probability tells us that we should expect coincidences, and simple psychology tells us that we'll remember the ones we notice... Last edited by dlorde; 13th November 2012 at 02:46 PM.

13th November 2012, 02:59 PM	#65
WingerII Student Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ottawa Posts: 47	I cheer for specific sports teams I have no relationship with (besides proximity perhaps) under all circumstances, and have done so for years. I find it impossible to defend this rationally.

13th November 2012, 03:38 PM	#66
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,038	Originally Posted by WingerII I cheer for specific sports teams I have no relationship with (besides proximity perhaps) under all circumstances, and have done so for years. I find it impossible to defend this rationally. Yeah, this one is interesting. What did the Chicago Blackhawks (Bears, Cubs) ever do for me? The Cubs haven't even won a championship during my lifetime.
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,038

13th November 2012, 05:44 PM	#67
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	I've come to wonder why the performance of steroid enhanced mutant millionaires being successful playing a game improves my life, self-worth, status in any manner.

13th November 2012, 05:47 PM	#68
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,038	Originally Posted by I Ratant I've come to wonder why the performance of steroid enhanced mutant millionaires being successful playing a game improves my life, self-worth, status in any manner. Yeah. All that money I spent on game tickets and such I could have put into lottery tickets. Wait . . .
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,038

13th November 2012, 06:40 PM	#69
Sonny2 Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Dust on the Wind Posts: 669	I DO NOT believe in Bigfoot. There is zero empirical evidence that Bigfoot exists... Until I'm all alone camping in the woods and something whacks a tree...then I still DO NOT believe they exist, but I wonder.

13th November 2012, 08:14 PM	#70
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by Resume Yeah. All that money I spent on game tickets and such I could have put into lottery tickets. Wait . . . . I haven't heard of any riots over lottery tickets.

14th November 2012, 06:39 AM	#71
poblob14 Thinker Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 226	Okay, you're gonna love this one . . . I'm a trial lawyer (criminal type stuff), and I travel around to do my trials, usually staying in a local hotel. On the morning of trial, I got into the habit of watching an episode of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air (because I don't need the stress of the news, and PBS Kids doesn't do it for me). And now, I NEED to do that. TBS has it streaming now, which is good, because they don't show it in the morning any more. At a minimum, on closing argument day, I need to at least hear the theme song. Woo? OCD? Bad taste in television and rap music? YOU DECIDE!
poblob14 Thinker Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 226

14th November 2012, 02:18 PM	#72
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,849	Originally Posted by Resume That resolution is dependent on the rationalization. I know my odds of winning a given lottery are extremely low; but someone has to win so give me a quick pick please. The exact resolution and rationalization vary, but it will be SOMETHING about which you must be right, or cognitive dissonance won't happen. If the bogus thing doesn't particularly have to be rationalized as correct, it will just get discarded or corrected in the mental model. But yes, the exact resolution depends on exactly what is impossible to let go. It might be immortality, or it can be one's sense of being an honest person despite just having done something dishonest, or (especially for us nerds) just having to be right because basically 'only dumb people are wrong', or whatever. Or in the lottery example, it might not be that you WILL win the jackpot, but it can just as well be for example that it's statistically sane to bet on a system where it's more likely to die in a car accident going to buy the ticket than to win the jackpot. But what I'm saying is that it's an automatic blind spot. Whatever your "woo" may be, if it's important enough that it be right, you'll see it as correct, not as woo. It's sorta like Dunning-Kruger, if you will. Sorta. When you judge whether X is factually correct, through a mental model where it HAS to be true, it will come out judged as factually correct. Hence what I was saying is that asking me or you what's our woo, won't really produce the real stuff.
	__________________ Which part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?

14th November 2012, 03:44 PM	#73
Prometheus Acolyte of Víðarr Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: North of Reality Posts: 43,011	Originally Posted by HansMustermann The exact resolution and rationalization vary, but it will be SOMETHING about which you must be right, or cognitive dissonance won't happen. If the bogus thing doesn't particularly have to be rationalized as correct, it will just get discarded or corrected in the mental model. But yes, the exact resolution depends on exactly what is impossible to let go. It might be immortality, or it can be one's sense of being an honest person despite just having done something dishonest, or (especially for us nerds) just having to be right because basically 'only dumb people are wrong', or whatever. Or in the lottery example, it might not be that you WILL win the jackpot, but it can just as well be for example that it's statistically sane to bet on a system where it's more likely to die in a car accident going to buy the ticket than to win the jackpot. But what I'm saying is that it's an automatic blind spot. Whatever your "woo" may be, if it's important enough that it be right, you'll see it as correct, not as woo. It's sorta like Dunning-Kruger, if you will. Sorta. When you judge whether X is factually correct, through a mental model where it HAS to be true, it will come out judged as factually correct. Hence what I was saying is that asking me or you what's our woo, won't really produce the real stuff. No matter how many times it's explained to me otherwise, I can't shake the belief that my odds of winning a million+ jackpot aren't that bad at all. Around half the adult population of the US, around 114,000,000 people, buy at least one lottery ticket each year. Around 1600 of those win payouts in excess of a million dollars each year. So while the odds of actually hitting a particular Powerball drawing may only be 1 in 176 million, the odds of a lottery player actually becoming a jackpot winner are really just 1 in 72,000. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
	__________________ As Einstein once said, "If you can't think of something relevant to say, just make something up and attribute it to some really smart dead guy." "I find your lack of pith disturbing," - Darth Rotor .......... Don't be offended. I'm not calling you a serial killer. -- Ron Tomkins.

18th November 2012, 09:32 AM	#74
EdG Scholar Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 108	This PowerBall winner in Michigan combines religion with lottery betting. Quote: Lawson picked his own numbers, 6-27-46-51-56 and Powerball number 21, but they are not ones that he consistently plays. He said he was "guided from above" when filling out his bet slip. Prior to claiming his prize, Lawson first tucked the ticket in a Bible, then stored it in a safety deposit box. Sadly, God has not yet given me winning lotto numbers.

19th November 2012, 08:03 AM	#75
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,827	I believe that speaking the words "things could not possibly get worse" is a taunt that the Fates will not tolerate. I do not believe in the Fates in any other situation.
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.