EYEWITNESS CHALLENGE: Are the NO PLANE witnesses better than PLANE SPOTTER witnesses? - Page 47

Clayton Moore · 24th February 2013, 06:45 PM

Vide

Originally Posted by brazenlilraisin

For your theory to work at all, something projected or created the illusion of a plane flying toward the towers. I hope you agree with this given that the image was broadcast live from several angles. If the "plane" was merely a David Copperfield-type illusion, then its timing had to be split-second precise in order to coincide with the very real explosions that occurred as the plane appeared to enter the tower.

How could "they" be sure that this classified projection technology was going to work properly? What if it appeared to be a transparent plane? What if it turned out not to be visible at all? Then you'd have a plane shaped hole made by, ahem, no plane.

Worse yet, what if the timing was indeed not precise? Imagine a big kaboom suddenly blowing a long narrow hole into the tower which a plane then flies into? Ever so much worse yet, a plane is seen flying into the tower, but then nothing happens at all. It would be immediately apparent that it was an illusion. THEN a plane-shaped hole is blasted into the side of the building.

With THOSE possibilities to consider you don't think the perpetrator would just use a real plane??

Videos were fiddled with and fed live to the public. In case you forgot the image of a plane flew into the tower and nothing did happen. Until the image of the plane disappeared into the building.

MIKILLINI · 24th February 2013, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Vide

Videos were fiddled with and fed live to the public. In case you forgot the image of a plane flew into the tower and nothing did happen. Until the image of the plane disappeared into the building.

Really Clayton? Have you got someone who confessed to fiddling with the video?

Do you know what N334AA and N612UA identify?

abaddon · 24th February 2013, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Vide

Videos were fiddled with and fed live to the public. In case you forgot the image of a plane flew into the tower and nothing did happen. Until the image of the plane disappeared into the building.

Incoherent. Try again. Also funny, since you keep on claiming to be some sort of genius, yet cannot formulate language.

AdMan · 24th February 2013, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Vide

Videos were fiddled with and fed live to the public. In case you forgot the image of a plane flew into the tower and nothing did happen. Until the image of the plane disappeared into the building.

Nonsense.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

BadBoy · 24th February 2013, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by yankee451

For me it's very difficult to remove something from video unless it's a fully digital animation, but adding CGI to real video is a snap. Well, we have 6 minutes of video before he added a jet to it, and there would be no reason for him to edit-out the jumpers which were part of the official story anyway, and it would be too difficult to do and probably quite noticable on top of it. Therefore, the video is genuine but the jet is fake. This is the lesson Simon Shack keeps missing, but IMO that's because he's in the evidence disposal business.

For you?

Did you bother to find mout how difficult it would actually be to edit out the jumpers?

Listen, can you answer one question. Why didnt they just use a real jet? Would have been much easier.

BadBoy · 24th February 2013, 09:29 PM

Im confused. are the no planers saying all the videos were faked, and all the witnesses were wrong. Or are they saying the plane was projected into the air in some way.

Go sell Crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

The Platypus · 24th February 2013, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by BadBoy

Im confused. are the no planers saying all the videos were faked, and all the witnesses were wrong. Or are they saying the plane was projected into the air in some way.

Go sell Crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

Both, there is more than one sect of 9/11 no-planer cult

ozeco41 · 24th February 2013, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by BadBoy

Im confused. are the no planers saying all the videos were faked, and all the witnesses were wrong. Or are they saying the plane was projected into the air in some way.

Originally Posted by The Platypus

Both, there is more than one sect of 9/11 no-planer cult

All true but - don't overlook - most of the postings these days are trolling - either pure and simple trolling OR trolling used to bolster the remnants of a long disproved delusion.

Clayton Moore · 24th February 2013, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by ozeco41

All true but - don't overlook - most of the postings these days are trolling - either pure and simple trolling OR trolling used to bolster the remnants of a long disproved delusion.

So why are you here? Who's the freaking troll?

Clayton Moore · 24th February 2013, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by LSSBB

Why would Al Qaeda want to have the fewest number of contingincies to deal with, in carrying out a terrorist attack?

Because Al-Qaeda didn't have anything to do with it.

ozeco41 · 24th February 2013, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

So why are you here? Who's the freaking troll?

Check your definitions of 'most' and 'troll'.

..and thank you for confirming the point I made.

AdMan · 24th February 2013, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Who's the freaking troll?

I think most of us can tell who is.

Ape of Good Hope · 25th February 2013, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

So why are you here? Who's the freaking troll?

You should be able to tell us.

After all, you're smarter than 99.78 of the people on this planet.

ETA - back on topic, several people responded to your "ghostlike image of a partial plane" post on page 41. Have you got around to reading these replies yet, and if so, can you confirm that you understand what's being explained to you with regard to video resolution?

The Platypus · 25th February 2013, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Because Al-Qaeda didn't have anything to do with it.

Al-Qaeda disagrees with you. So does just about everyone else outside of 9/11 conspiracy lunatic fringe cults.

fitzgibbon · 25th February 2013, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Vide

Videos were fiddled with and fed live to the public. In case you forgot the image of a plane flew into the tower and nothing did happen. Until the image of the plane disappeared into the building.

OK Clayton; I'll throw the same gauntlet down that yankee451 has refused to pick up so far. I'm a broadcast television professional of 30+ years in the business with camera, editing and transmission expertise: tell me precisely how you think the "videos were fiddled with and fed live to the public"?

Was this all in real time?

What 2001-era equipment was being used? (software versions would be a nice addition)

What was the workpath?

Unspecified "fiddled with" just won't cut it as an answer. Also, why don't you confer with miragememories for his input on the matter. That way you can have a TV-truther's input if you'll take it

Time to put up or shut up

Fitz

LSSBB · 25th February 2013, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Because Al-Qaeda didn't have anything to do with it.

There's no alternative explanation with any evidence, besides Al Qaeda. Or do you count alternative definitions of Symmetrical, Pull, Looks Like CD, and New Pearl Harbor as evidence? In any case, you conveniently left out the second half of my post about if 'twere the Gubmit.

NoahFence · 25th February 2013, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Vide

Videos were fiddled with and fed live to the public. In case you forgot the image of a plane flew into the tower and nothing did happen. Until the image of the plane disappeared into the building.

LOL

So nothing happened to the building until the plane hit it.

In other news, the sun didn't come out until daybreak, the pitcher didn't throw a strike until he threw a strike, and pathetic arguments didn't magically appear until you typed.

Pinch · 25th February 2013, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Vide

In case you forgot the image of a plane flew into the tower and nothing did happen. Until the image of the plane disappeared into the building.

You can always tell a Truther's grasp on reality - tenuous or otherwise - by how they believe a 90-ton airliner traveling at 730 feet per second should react when it impacts a comparatively thin lattice work of steel box beams, spandrels, aluminum cladding and glass.

Hercules Rockefeller · 25th February 2013, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope

You should be able to tell us.

After all, you're smarter than 99.78 of the people on this planet.

That's nothing. I'm smarter than 150 people on this planet.

dafydd · 25th February 2013, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope

You should be able to tell us.

After all, you're smarter than 99.78 of the people on this planet.

Only the smartest people know that ''gobbets'' of vaccine injected into the muscle of the arm end up in the alimentary tract.

jaydeehess · 25th February 2013, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

As usual in threads dealing with video, I will back fitz's call for a technical explanation of how this sipposed fakery was accomplished.
I began my carreer as an electronic tech responsible for maintenance and repair of air nav and comm, ground based equipment , then close to 20 years ago switched to tv distribution maintenance and professional video production.

Ace couldn't come up with a plausible ccount. IIRC he basically appealed to a magical secret system of cgi.

What I do know is that no no-planer has claimed to have managed to reproduce any of this fakery on a live video stream, either using insertion techniques available in 2001 or that which has become available in the past decade.

Again I will remind you and everyone else that so far there has been no instance of anyone reproducing the supposed live render cgi done on 9/11.
So how about it Clayton, are you ready to demonstrate that it can be done with last decade's technology? or with today's?

..... awaiting the "you don't know what THEY have " further appeal to magic

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

You need to take The Fewer Possible Contingencies To Deal With The Better 101. With fake planes you don't need to hit targets in a timely manner. You don't need to depend on planes not being intercepted. You don't need to depend on hijackers not being detained or getting drunk the night before.

All you need to do is rely on being able to intercept every single live TV feed in one of the most media dense cities on the planet, then rely on being able to also intercept every single private video and possible still camera in an area where the mean income allows a great many peope the ability to own video or still cameras.

Yeah fewest possible contingencies there Clayton!

Quote:

You don't need to depend on a hijacker to fly a huge passenger jet flawlessly on his maiden flight.

Lovely example of the "Texas Sharpshooter" logical fantasy, Clayton.
This was never a thing anyone needed to depend on given that even if the planes had been shot down or crashed into Central Park there would STILL be a couple of hundred dead Americans!

16.5 · 25th February 2013, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by yankee451

Father Judge. Sure, that's the topic that got me banned from ATS. Septic Overload didn't like the fact that I chose to post about Death Certificate number one at the same time he was using his "iconic" propaganda photos as his icon for the anniversary of 9/11. Kinda sick if you ask me.

What about him? Have you seen the Naudet film by the way?

Wrong.

CORed · 25th February 2013, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

All you need to do is rely on being able to ontercept every single live TV feed in one of the most media dense ciries on the planet, then rely on being able to also intercept every single private video and possible still camera in an area where the mean income allows a great many peope the ability to own video or still cameras.

Yeah fewest possible contingencies there Clayton!

This was never a thing anyone needed to depend on given that even if the planes had been shot down or crashed into Central Park there would STILL be a couple of hundred dead Americans!

Of course you also have to fake air traffic control radar, flight data recorder data, airline records, and somehow make all the passengers disappear (or create vicsims, with personal histories so detailed and complete that nobody will ever be able to prove they didn't exist). Of course, evil gubmint conspirators can do anything, because they're magic.

In the real world, once the hijackers had control of the planes, it was mission accomplished. At worst, they were going to kill the passengers. Actually hitting the buildings was a bonus, having the WTC buildings collapse was even more of a bonus. Even if the WTC towers didn't collapse, the fires would have killed several hundred people in addition to plane passengers, and rendered the WTC buildings useless.

Of course, the same logic applies to the hypothetical "false flag" government operation. There was simply no need for the convoluted plot that the "no planes" scenario requires. Even assuming that somebody in the government was evil enough to murder a few thousand American citizens to further their agenda, and arrogant/stupid enough to believe they could get away with it, simply blowing up the buildings or flying planes into them would have gotten the job done. Blowing up the buildings and flying planes into them or faking the flying of planes into them would have been the antithesis of the "minimum contingency" principle.

jaydeehess · 25th February 2013, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by CORed

Of course you also have to fake air traffic control radar, flight data recorder data, airline records, and somehow make all the passengers disappear (or create vicsims, with personal histories so detailed and complete that nobody will ever be able to prove they didn't exist). Of course, evil gubmint conspirators can do anything, because they're magic.

Indeed they are magic according to CXlayton.

Reminds me so much of Creationists. Sure it much simpler to just posit an omnipotent being that can do anything and then claim that this scenario is so much less complex than scientific explanaitions of the universe.

CORed · 25th February 2013, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by The Platypus

Both, there is more than one sect of 9/11 no-planer cult

Yes, IIRC, we have had no-planers here who believed the planes were holograms. Of course, creating a hologram visible in broad daylight from all possible angles is a task that makes editing a few hundred videos pale by comparison, but it does "explain" the eyewitnesses, without invoking "they were all bought off or intimidated".

CORed · 25th February 2013, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by The Platypus

Both, there is more than one sect of 9/11 no-planer cult

And no-planers, like most conspiracy theorists, are fully capable of believing two mutually exclusive scenarios simultaneously, as long as both are compatible with "it was an inside job".

tsig · 25th February 2013, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by CORed

Yes, IIRC, we have had no-planers here who believed the planes were holograms. Of course, creating a hologram visible in broad daylight from all possible angles is a task that makes editing a few hundred videos pale by comparison, but it does "explain" the eyewitnesses, without invoking "they were all bought off or intimidated".

Well, we'd also need the biggest outdoor sound system ever.

jaydeehess · 25th February 2013, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by CORed

Yes, IIRC, we have had no-planers here who believed the planes were holograms. Of course, creating a hologram visible in broad daylight from all possible angles is a task that makes editing a few hundred videos pale by comparison, but it does "explain" the eyewitnesses, without invoking "they were all bought off or intimidated".

You forgot "faked/didn't exist"

Foolmewunz · 25th February 2013, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller

That's nothing. I'm smarter than 150 people on this planet.

I'll see you and raise you.....

I'm smarter than 105% of the people on Prison Planet. (I'm smarter than fifty who haven't signed up yet, but intend to.)

BadBoy · 25th February 2013, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by twinstead

Until I hear from some kind of official Round Earth Society, I'm going to continue to believe the world is flat. twinstead has spoken

I've gone all the way around by plane. Its actually a cube, which you cannot possibly know unless you went off the edge. I did.

BadBoy · 25th February 2013, 10:33 PM

prove me wrong

Foolmewunz · 25th February 2013, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by BadBoy

prove me wrong

In a Jammo / Yankee 451 / Clayton thread?

You'd have to get in a long queue for the Prove Poster A, B, C, >... Z.... Has/Have Gone Over the Edge sweepstakes. We might get to you in 2017.

24th February 2013, 06:45 PM	#1841
Clayton Moore Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6,184	Vide Originally Posted by brazenlilraisin For your theory to work at all, something projected or created the illusion of a plane flying toward the towers. I hope you agree with this given that the image was broadcast live from several angles. If the "plane" was merely a David Copperfield-type illusion, then its timing had to be split-second precise in order to coincide with the very real explosions that occurred as the plane appeared to enter the tower. How could "they" be sure that this classified projection technology was going to work properly? What if it appeared to be a transparent plane? What if it turned out not to be visible at all? Then you'd have a plane shaped hole made by, ahem, no plane. Worse yet, what if the timing was indeed not precise? Imagine a big kaboom suddenly blowing a long narrow hole into the tower which a plane then flies into? Ever so much worse yet, a plane is seen flying into the tower, but then nothing happens at all. It would be immediately apparent that it was an illusion. THEN a plane-shaped hole is blasted into the side of the building. With THOSE possibilities to consider you don't think the perpetrator would just use a real plane?? Videos were fiddled with and fed live to the public. In case you forgot the image of a plane flew into the tower and nothing did happen. Until the image of the plane disappeared into the building.
	__________________ Shitat Matzliach is why the Holohoax works. The same neoconservative scum who engineered 9/11 and got the US into two wars want American troops to sacrifice their lives in Syria and Iran. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhc7M...Mc4eb2TClVRQws http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/#aevideo http://www2.ae911truth.org/actionale...rBuilding7.php

24th February 2013, 07:27 PM	#1842
MIKILLINI Incromulent Logic Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Illini State Posts: 2,884	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Vide Videos were fiddled with and fed live to the public. In case you forgot the image of a plane flew into the tower and nothing did happen. Until the image of the plane disappeared into the building. Really Clayton? Have you got someone who confessed to fiddling with the video? Do you know what N334AA and N612UA identify?
	__________________ Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense. The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo Sylvia Browne is not a medium, she's a mediocre.

24th February 2013, 07:42 PM	#1843
abaddon Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,580	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Vide Videos were fiddled with and fed live to the public. In case you forgot the image of a plane flew into the tower and nothing did happen. Until the image of the plane disappeared into the building. Incoherent. Try again. Also funny, since you keep on claiming to be some sort of genius, yet cannot formulate language.
abaddon Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,580	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?

24th February 2013, 08:00 PM	#1844
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,169	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Vide Videos were fiddled with and fed live to the public. In case you forgot the image of a plane flew into the tower and nothing did happen. Until the image of the plane disappeared into the building. Nonsense. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,169	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

24th February 2013, 09:09 PM	#1845
BadBoy Muse Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 729	Originally Posted by yankee451 For me it's very difficult to remove something from video unless it's a fully digital animation, but adding CGI to real video is a snap. Well, we have 6 minutes of video before he added a jet to it, and there would be no reason for him to edit-out the jumpers which were part of the official story anyway, and it would be too difficult to do and probably quite noticable on top of it. Therefore, the video is genuine but the jet is fake. This is the lesson Simon Shack keeps missing, but IMO that's because he's in the evidence disposal business. For you? Did you bother to find mout how difficult it would actually be to edit out the jumpers? Listen, can you answer one question. Why didnt they just use a real jet? Would have been much easier.
BadBoy Muse Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 729	__________________ Go sell crazy someplace else we're all stocked up here

24th February 2013, 09:29 PM	#1846
BadBoy Muse Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 729	Im confused. are the no planers saying all the videos were faked, and all the witnesses were wrong. Or are they saying the plane was projected into the air in some way. Go sell Crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
BadBoy Muse Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 729	__________________ Go sell crazy someplace else we're all stocked up here

24th February 2013, 09:50 PM	#1847
The Platypus Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,789	Originally Posted by BadBoy Im confused. are the no planers saying all the videos were faked, and all the witnesses were wrong. Or are they saying the plane was projected into the air in some way. Go sell Crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here. Both, there is more than one sect of 9/11 no-planer cult
	__________________ I'll go with the qualified experts, over some ranting guy on the internet that claims he has "the truth". Always beware of those that overuse, capitalize and blanket themselves in them word "truth". I may not always know the truth, but i do know when i'm being lied too.

24th February 2013, 10:26 PM	#1848
ozeco41 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia Posts: 3,655	Originally Posted by BadBoy Im confused. are the no planers saying all the videos were faked, and all the witnesses were wrong. Or are they saying the plane was projected into the air in some way. Originally Posted by The Platypus Both, there is more than one sect of 9/11 no-planer cult All true but - don't overlook - most of the postings these days are trolling - either pure and simple trolling OR trolling used to bolster the remnants of a long disproved delusion.

24th February 2013, 11:26 PM	#1849
Clayton Moore Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6,184	Originally Posted by ozeco41 All true but - don't overlook - most of the postings these days are trolling - either pure and simple trolling OR trolling used to bolster the remnants of a long disproved delusion. So why are you here? Who's the freaking troll?
	__________________ Shitat Matzliach is why the Holohoax works. The same neoconservative scum who engineered 9/11 and got the US into two wars want American troops to sacrifice their lives in Syria and Iran. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhc7M...Mc4eb2TClVRQws http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/#aevideo http://www2.ae911truth.org/actionale...rBuilding7.php

24th February 2013, 11:35 PM	#1850
Clayton Moore Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6,184	Originally Posted by LSSBB Why would Al Qaeda want to have the fewest number of contingincies to deal with, in carrying out a terrorist attack? Because Al-Qaeda didn't have anything to do with it.
	__________________ Shitat Matzliach is why the Holohoax works. The same neoconservative scum who engineered 9/11 and got the US into two wars want American troops to sacrifice their lives in Syria and Iran. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhc7M...Mc4eb2TClVRQws http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/#aevideo http://www2.ae911truth.org/actionale...rBuilding7.php

24th February 2013, 11:52 PM	#1851
ozeco41 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia Posts: 3,655	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore So why are you here? Who's the freaking troll? Check your definitions of 'most' and 'troll'. ..and thank you for confirming the point I made.

24th February 2013, 11:54 PM	#1852
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,169	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Who's the freaking troll? I think most of us can tell who is.
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,169	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

25th February 2013, 12:01 AM	#1853
Ape of Good Hope Muse Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Brizzle Posts: 664	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore So why are you here? Who's the freaking troll? You should be able to tell us. After all, you're smarter than 99.78 of the people on this planet. ETA - back on topic, several people responded to your "ghostlike image of a partial plane" post on page 41. Have you got around to reading these replies yet, and if so, can you confirm that you understand what's being explained to you with regard to video resolution?
	Last edited by Ape of Good Hope; 25th February 2013 at 12:18 AM.

25th February 2013, 12:40 AM	#1854
The Platypus Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,789	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Because Al-Qaeda didn't have anything to do with it. Al-Qaeda disagrees with you. So does just about everyone else outside of 9/11 conspiracy lunatic fringe cults.
	__________________ I'll go with the qualified experts, over some ranting guy on the internet that claims he has "the truth". Always beware of those that overuse, capitalize and blanket themselves in them word "truth". I may not always know the truth, but i do know when i'm being lied too. Last edited by The Platypus; 25th February 2013 at 12:45 AM.

25th February 2013, 03:38 AM	#1855
fitzgibbon Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Just west of the centre of the universe Posts: 2,542	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Vide Videos were fiddled with and fed live to the public. In case you forgot the image of a plane flew into the tower and nothing did happen. Until the image of the plane disappeared into the building. OK Clayton; I'll throw the same gauntlet down that yankee451 has refused to pick up so far. I'm a broadcast television professional of 30+ years in the business with camera, editing and transmission expertise: tell me precisely how you think the "videos were fiddled with and fed live to the public"? Was this all in real time? What 2001-era equipment was being used? (software versions would be a nice addition) What was the workpath? Unspecified "fiddled with" just won't cut it as an answer. Also, why don't you confer with miragememories for his input on the matter. That way you can have a TV-truther's input if you'll take it Time to put up or shut up Fitz
	__________________ "Television is a circus, a carnival, a traveling troupe of acrobats, storytellers, dancers, singers, jugglers, side-show freaks, lion tamers, and football players. We're in the boredom-killing business! So if you want the truth... Go to God!" Howard Beale, "Network"

25th February 2013, 05:14 AM	#1856
LSSBB Devilish Dictionarian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: An elusive house at Bachelor's Grove Cemetery Posts: 4,492	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Because Al-Qaeda didn't have anything to do with it. There's no alternative explanation with any evidence, besides Al Qaeda. Or do you count alternative definitions of Symmetrical, Pull, Looks Like CD, and New Pearl Harbor as evidence? In any case, you conveniently left out the second half of my post about if 'twere the Gubmit.
	__________________ "Things that never happened before happen all the time." (Scott Sagan, 1993) "Put down the Wite-Out and step away from the dictionary." (000063, 2012) "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." (John Kenneth Galbraith, 1971)

25th February 2013, 05:36 AM	#1857
NoahFence Psycho Kitty Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Patriot Nation Posts: 9,322	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Vide Videos were fiddled with and fed live to the public. In case you forgot the image of a plane flew into the tower and nothing did happen. Until the image of the plane disappeared into the building. LOL So nothing happened to the building until the plane hit it. In other news, the sun didn't come out until daybreak, the pitcher didn't throw a strike until he threw a strike, and pathetic arguments didn't magically appear until you typed.
	__________________ Our truest life is when we are in our dreams awake. -Henry David Thoreau

25th February 2013, 06:18 AM	#1858
Pinch Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 287	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Vide In case you forgot the image of a plane flew into the tower and nothing did happen. Until the image of the plane disappeared into the building. You can always tell a Truther's grasp on reality - tenuous or otherwise - by how they believe a 90-ton airliner traveling at 730 feet per second should react when it impacts a comparatively thin lattice work of steel box beams, spandrels, aluminum cladding and glass.
Pinch Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 287	__________________ "There's this thing about being so "open minded" your brain falls out". --Unknown

25th February 2013, 09:37 AM	#1859
Hercules Rockefeller Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Ponylandistan Posts: 1,383	Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope You should be able to tell us. After all, you're smarter than 99.78 of the people on this planet. That's nothing. I'm smarter than 150 people on this planet.
	__________________ Quantum physics means that anything can happen at anytime and for no reason. Also, eat plenty of oatmeal, and animals never had a war! - Deepak Chopra

25th February 2013, 10:22 AM	#1860
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,468	Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope You should be able to tell us. After all, you're smarter than 99.78 of the people on this planet. Only the smartest people know that ''gobbets'' of vaccine injected into the muscle of the arm end up in the alimentary tract.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

25th February 2013, 10:31 AM	#1861
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,810	Originally Posted by jaydeehess As usual in threads dealing with video, I will back fitz's call for a technical explanation of how this sipposed fakery was accomplished. I began my carreer as an electronic tech responsible for maintenance and repair of air nav and comm, ground based equipment , then close to 20 years ago switched to tv distribution maintenance and professional video production. Ace couldn't come up with a plausible ccount. IIRC he basically appealed to a magical secret system of cgi. What I do know is that no no-planer has claimed to have managed to reproduce any of this fakery on a live video stream, either using insertion techniques available in 2001 or that which has become available in the past decade. Again I will remind you and everyone else that so far there has been no instance of anyone reproducing the supposed live render cgi done on 9/11. So how about it Clayton, are you ready to demonstrate that it can be done with last decade's technology? or with today's? ..... awaiting the "you don't know what THEY have " further appeal to magic Originally Posted by Clayton Moore You need to take The Fewer Possible Contingencies To Deal With The Better 101. With fake planes you don't need to hit targets in a timely manner. You don't need to depend on planes not being intercepted. You don't need to depend on hijackers not being detained or getting drunk the night before. All you need to do is rely on being able to intercept every single live TV feed in one of the most media dense cities on the planet, then rely on being able to also intercept every single private video and possible still camera in an area where the mean income allows a great many peope the ability to own video or still cameras. Yeah fewest possible contingencies there Clayton! Quote: You don't need to depend on a hijacker to fly a huge passenger jet flawlessly on his maiden flight. Lovely example of the "Texas Sharpshooter" logical fantasy, Clayton. This was never a thing anyone needed to depend on given that even if the planes had been shot down or crashed into Central Park there would STILL be a couple of hundred dead Americans!
	Last edited by jaydeehess; 25th February 2013 at 11:04 AM.

25th February 2013, 11:01 AM	#1862
16.5 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,700	Originally Posted by yankee451 Father Judge. Sure, that's the topic that got me banned from ATS. Septic Overload didn't like the fact that I chose to post about Death Certificate number one at the same time he was using his "iconic" propaganda photos as his icon for the anniversary of 9/11. Kinda sick if you ask me. What about him? Have you seen the Naudet film by the way? Wrong.
16.5 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,700

25th February 2013, 11:04 AM	#1863
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,289	Originally Posted by jaydeehess All you need to do is rely on being able to ontercept every single live TV feed in one of the most media dense ciries on the planet, then rely on being able to also intercept every single private video and possible still camera in an area where the mean income allows a great many peope the ability to own video or still cameras. Yeah fewest possible contingencies there Clayton! This was never a thing anyone needed to depend on given that even if the planes had been shot down or crashed into Central Park there would STILL be a couple of hundred dead Americans! Of course you also have to fake air traffic control radar, flight data recorder data, airline records, and somehow make all the passengers disappear (or create vicsims, with personal histories so detailed and complete that nobody will ever be able to prove they didn't exist). Of course, evil gubmint conspirators can do anything, because they're magic. In the real world, once the hijackers had control of the planes, it was mission accomplished. At worst, they were going to kill the passengers. Actually hitting the buildings was a bonus, having the WTC buildings collapse was even more of a bonus. Even if the WTC towers didn't collapse, the fires would have killed several hundred people in addition to plane passengers, and rendered the WTC buildings useless. Of course, the same logic applies to the hypothetical "false flag" government operation. There was simply no need for the convoluted plot that the "no planes" scenario requires. Even assuming that somebody in the government was evil enough to murder a few thousand American citizens to further their agenda, and arrogant/stupid enough to believe they could get away with it, simply blowing up the buildings or flying planes into them would have gotten the job done. Blowing up the buildings and flying planes into them or faking the flying of planes into them would have been the antithesis of the "minimum contingency" principle.
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,289	Last edited by CORed; 25th February 2013 at 11:17 AM.

25th February 2013, 11:07 AM	#1864
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,810	Originally Posted by CORed Of course you also have to fake air traffic control radar, flight data recorder data, airline records, and somehow make all the passengers disappear (or create vicsims, with personal histories so detailed and complete that nobody will ever be able to prove they didn't exist). Of course, evil gubmint conspirators can do anything, because they're magic. Indeed they are magic according to CXlayton. Reminds me so much of Creationists. Sure it much simpler to just posit an omnipotent being that can do anything and then claim that this scenario is so much less complex than scientific explanaitions of the universe.

25th February 2013, 11:23 AM	#1865
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,289	Originally Posted by The Platypus Both, there is more than one sect of 9/11 no-planer cult Yes, IIRC, we have had no-planers here who believed the planes were holograms. Of course, creating a hologram visible in broad daylight from all possible angles is a task that makes editing a few hundred videos pale by comparison, but it does "explain" the eyewitnesses, without invoking "they were all bought off or intimidated".
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,289

25th February 2013, 11:26 AM	#1866
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,289	Originally Posted by The Platypus Both, there is more than one sect of 9/11 no-planer cult And no-planers, like most conspiracy theorists, are fully capable of believing two mutually exclusive scenarios simultaneously, as long as both are compatible with "it was an inside job".
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,289

25th February 2013, 11:28 AM	#1867
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 26,762	Originally Posted by CORed Yes, IIRC, we have had no-planers here who believed the planes were holograms. Of course, creating a hologram visible in broad daylight from all possible angles is a task that makes editing a few hundred videos pale by comparison, but it does "explain" the eyewitnesses, without invoking "they were all bought off or intimidated". Well, we'd also need the biggest outdoor sound system ever.

25th February 2013, 12:46 PM	#1868
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,810	Originally Posted by CORed Yes, IIRC, we have had no-planers here who believed the planes were holograms. Of course, creating a hologram visible in broad daylight from all possible angles is a task that makes editing a few hundred videos pale by comparison, but it does "explain" the eyewitnesses, without invoking "they were all bought off or intimidated". You forgot "faked/didn't exist"

25th February 2013, 08:21 PM	#1869
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,516	Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller That's nothing. I'm smarter than 150 people on this planet. I'll see you and raise you..... I'm smarter than 105% of the people on Prison Planet. (I'm smarter than fifty who haven't signed up yet, but intend to.)
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

25th February 2013, 10:05 PM	#1870
BadBoy Muse Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 729	Originally Posted by twinstead Until I hear from some kind of official Round Earth Society, I'm going to continue to believe the world is flat. twinstead has spoken I've gone all the way around by plane. Its actually a cube, which you cannot possibly know unless you went off the edge. I did.
BadBoy Muse Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 729	__________________ Go sell crazy someplace else we're all stocked up here

25th February 2013, 10:33 PM	#1871
BadBoy Muse Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 729	prove me wrong
BadBoy Muse Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 729	__________________ Go sell crazy someplace else we're all stocked up here

25th February 2013, 10:59 PM	#1872
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,516	Originally Posted by BadBoy prove me wrong In a Jammo / Yankee 451 / Clayton thread? You'd have to get in a long queue for the Prove Poster A, B, C, >... Z.... Has/Have Gone Over the Edge sweepstakes. We might get to you in 2017.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]