When is it OK to reveal the secret?

[alfaniner]

I mentioned to a friend that I had shown my nephew how I did a certain illusion, and he was horrified.

I then realized that perhaps I didn't say it right. I had actually taught him how to do it (not just showed, as in "revealed"). And this only after a full day of letting him try to figure it out on his own. He was genuinely interested in learning how to perform it and it wasn't just a "How did you do that?" curiosity.

This got me to thinking. When is it OK to reveal the secret? I would think in this case it's OK.

Another situation is when you would do it For Sale? There is a magic store in the Disney Marketplace, and once you buy a trick the guy takes you into a secret room and shows you how to do it. Are there (magicians') ethical boundaries for this?

[rjh01]

The answer is purely a matter of opinion. I could say that magicians do tricks they should explain how it is done. This area is about the only area where secrecy is the key to how something is done. Most other jobs depend on skills that can be taught.

I am also told that many tricks can be learnt via buying the right books, though I have only seen such books for children. Have not looked too hard though.

[Garrette]

As rjh01 said, it is a matter of opinion, but not entirely so. Some effects (methods and/or gimmicks) are the intellectual property of the creator, at least for a while; revealing those methods, regardless of the circumstance, is wrong.

That doesn't apply to most effects, though, particularly if you're not a professional, so then I'd say you're within the bounds of what I would consider approprite, assuming that you took steps to ensure your nephew will not reveal the method.

Regarding the "For Sale" question, it's okay if it's legally yours to sell, but as always with my positions, there is a large gray area, one that I cannot adequately articulate.

[Stray Cat]

Originally Posted by alfaniner

Are there (magicians') ethical boundaries for this?

Magicians don't have "ethics", they have wallets.
Offer them money and they will sell you a secret.

Walk in to any magic shop and they don't check to see if you are magician before selling you all their secrets.

OK, that's cynical. For me over the years, I've developed my own tricks and effects, made my own props and learned as many 'techniques' that can be utilised to perform. When someone asks me how it did it, they get one of the standard replies; "very well apparently" or "so you couldn't see".

When is it 'ethical' to divulge the secret?... for me, it's if and when the person wanting to know can show a good understanding of the responsibility of knowing the secret and has a genuine interest in magic and not just in finding out how it's done.

I say you did the right thing.

[geni]

Its the 21st century and I have google and youtube. I would sugest the issue has long since become purely theoretical.

[Garrette]

Originally Posted by geni

Its the 21st century and I have google and youtube. I would sugest the issue has long since become purely theoretical.

Well, I suppose there's an argument for the Secret-of-the-Gaps position, but despite the internet's impressive reach, some secrets are still all but unobtainable, even for professionals.

Even ignoring that, though, there is something to be said for not making it easy. If someone asks me for a method and I refuse to divulge it, that person may well take the extra trouble of going to the internet and searching; on the other hand, he may not.

[alfaniner]

It was my search for the solution to a David Blaine illusion that directly led me to this site.

fwiw - he cheated.

[Garrette]

Originally Posted by alfaniner

It was my search for the solution to a David Blaine illusion that directly led me to this site.

fwiw - he cheated.

He 'cheated' on many things, but I assume you are referring to one of his levitations. One of the sadder parts of it is that cheating in the way he did isn't really necessary.

[marplots]

If someone really seems to have an interest, I'd show them. This is slightly (pun?) different than mere idle curiosity of the "let me see those cards" type. For those folks, their best guess is good enough and might even be correct. They get the "trick rope" or "trick cards" solution and are happy. But someone who really seems to care about the art, I have no problem showing them. After all, someone showed me once upon a time.

Now that I think about it, when magicians get together, there's usually quite a bit of "showing how it's done" going on. I don't see it as any different than one musician showing a chord progression to another, or a dancer explaining a step.

[rjh01]

Originally Posted by marplots

If someone really seems to have an interest, I'd show them. This is slightly (pun?) different than mere idle curiosity of the "let me see those cards" type. For those folks, their best guess is good enough and might even be correct. They get the "trick rope" or "trick cards" solution and are happy. But someone who really seems to care about the art, I have no problem showing them. After all, someone showed me once upon a time.

Now that I think about it, when magicians get together, there's usually quite a bit of "showing how it's done" going on. I don't see it as any different than one musician showing a chord progression to another, or a dancer explaining a step.

If a dancer explained how they did a step to a large audience then that would be OK, but if a magician did the same on one of his tricks that would not be OK to some people? I think the big difference here is that the secret to a good dancer is lots of practice. You should be able to perform a trick with only a little practice or if you knew how it was done it would seem less like magic.

[Garrette]

Originally Posted by rjh01

You should be able to perform a trick with only a little practice or if you knew how it was done it would seem less like magic.

Not really, though there are exceptions.

[marplots]

Originally Posted by rjh01

If a dancer explained how they did a step to a large audience then that would be OK, but if a magician did the same on one of his tricks that would not be OK to some people? I think the big difference here is that the secret to a good dancer is lots of practice. You should be able to perform a trick with only a little practice or if you knew how it was done it would seem less like magic.

It does happen that magicians tell secrets to large audiences. We call these lectures or seminars. It's even done online now. But a general audience? I don't think they'd find it very interesting. Would they really care about how you motivate a deck switch so that it blends seamlessly into the overall flow of a routine?

I used to think that part about secrets being the be-all and end-all as well. The more I've learned, the more I've come to see magic as very similar to other forms of entertainment and less about secrets. My best analogy comes from the world of science. I absolutely do not think science demos (superconduction, gyroscopes, and any of a hundred others) lose their entertainment value just because I am told the secret. In many cases, that makes the whole thing cooler.

We do share something with comedians though. The second time you hear a joke, it's not as funny. Same with magic tricks -- mostly.

[gnome]

I kind of think of it as like it's bad to tell spoilers to people that haven't seen a movie.

If the ending becomes popularized it ruins the movie for almost everyone. Not a hard and fast rule, but discretion is called for by default.

[16.5]

Originally Posted by gnome

I kind of think of it as like it's bad to tell spoilers to people that haven't seen a movie.

If the ending becomes popularized it ruins the movie for almost everyone. Not a hard and fast rule, but discretion is called for by default.

After I found out that Dumbledore could just walk into Mordor, it didn't wreck the movie for me at all.

[Brown]

I showed a friend's son one of my favorite card tricks, and he really wanted to know how it was done. I said something to this effect:

"Okay, I'll teach it to you. But the deal is that after I show you the trick, YOU have to perform it. Agreed?"

We ended up with him doing about half a dozen practice "performances" before I was satisfied that he understood not only the "secret" but also the performance. The most important thing in the lesson was that the performance was more important than the "secret," since the "secret" was simple, almost trivial.

[Jeff Corey]

When I was 12, I received a Mystro Magic Set. http://www.geniimagazine.com/magicpe...sto_Magic_Sets It had thumb tips, Chinese rings, stripper deck, trick coins and other gimmicks and a year later, a friend and I did a magic show for the junior high school. The only secrets I ever taught were to kids who showed curiosity about tricks I showed them. I gave them thumb tips as little gifts.
I think that teaching kids that there are mundane explanations for things that seem impossible is important. Visual illusions are good for that, too, but the explanions tend to be more complicated.

[mike3]

I'm curious about this: Given all the secrecy, how does someone learn to be a magician? It seems that if a lot can't be taught, a lot of "wheel-reinventing" is required.

[geni]

Originally Posted by mike3

I'm curious about this: Given all the secrecy, how does someone learn to be a magician? It seems that if a lot can't be taught, a lot of "wheel-reinventing" is required.

Historically a mix of libiary books, cash and personal connections.


These days google and youtube.

Historically if you had a decent stage presence you could put on a perfectly good magic show from the tricks you could find in a couple of book from your local library service. If you wanted something a bit more unusal or a complicated gimic there were and still are organisations that will offer them for a price.

Reinventing the wheel isn't a huge problem. Historicaly it has resulted in people finding new and sometimes better ways to do the same trick.

[Bob Klase]

Originally Posted by mike3

I'm curious about this: Given all the secrecy, how does someone learn to be a magician? It seems that if a lot can't be taught, a lot of "wheel-reinventing" is required.

There really isn't all that much secrecy. Most magicians share secrets freely with other magicians- and that includes pretty much anyone who they think has a serious interest in learning about magic and not just an interest in finding how that trick they saw yesterday was done.

Many magicians share secrets with anyone and everyone who will listen. Sometimes they think this makes them look smart because they can explain something that you couldn't. Most often they eventually learn that it doesn't make them look smart.

And almost all magicians learn the hard way that as soon as you explain the secret there are many people who go "oh... that's all it is?"- and ignore the time and effort put into making a simple secret appear to be magic.

[AdMan]

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

There really isn't all that much secrecy. Most magicians share secrets freely with other magicians- and that includes pretty much anyone who they think has a serious interest in learning about magic and not just an interest in finding how that trick they saw yesterday was done.

Many magicians share secrets with anyone and everyone who will listen. Sometimes they think this makes them look smart because they can explain something that you couldn't. Most often they eventually learn that it doesn't make them look smart.

And almost all magicians learn the hard way that as soon as you explain the secret there are many people who go "oh... that's all it is?"- and ignore the time and effort put into making a simple secret appear to be magic.

Couldn't agree more with everything you said, Bob. Well put.