Local collapse in WTC7 at ~ 5:20pm

uglypig · 7th May 2012, 01:31 AM

i711.photobucket(.)com/albums/ww114/peterene/fig_5_20.jpg

i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww114/peterene/595527698.jpg

This photo had been taken about one minute before the global collapse ensued. I shows a big cloud of dust that has spread to a considerable distance. This, along the the NW corner measurement indicates a large scale local collapse. The progression of failures was taking place during the last two minutes and has the potential to explain the rapid, almost symetrical collapse even better than the NIST simulation.

youtu. be/KELwL9DCqqw?t=7m54s

Video showing another possible local collapses in the final 30 minutes.

ozeco41 · 7th May 2012, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by uglypig

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww114/peterene/fig_5_20.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w.../595527698.jpg

This photo had been taken about one minute before the global collapse ensued. I shows a big cloud of dust that has spread to a considerable distance. This, along the the NW corner measurement indicates a large scale local collapse. The progression of failures was taking place during the last two minutes and has the potential to explain the rapid, almost symetrical collapse even better than the NIST simulation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KELwL9DCqqw?t=7m54s

Video showing another possible local collapses in the final 30 minutes.

Welcome uglypig - I am familiar with some of your postings from another forum.

I have corrected the url links in the above quote so they should now work. There has been a lot of discussion of WTC7 collapse on this forum so you may wish to be specific about what you want to say or claim.

uglypig · 7th May 2012, 02:17 AM

I think that the floor system..likely in the whole northeastern quarter of the building had been gone long before the visible onset of the collapse, or at least the area under the east penthouse.

The NIST model can't account for a lot of things (the bowing of the north wall, rapid freefall descent of the west penthouse).. I think this can.

ozeco41 · 7th May 2012, 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by uglypig

I think that the floor system..likely in the whole northeastern quarter of the building had been gone long before the visible onset of the collapse, or at least the area under the east penthouse.

The NIST model can't account for a lot of things (the bowing of the north wall, rapid freefall descent of the west penthouse).. I think this can.

Understood and thanks.

My personal interest in WTC collapses arose out of the need to understand WTC1 and WTC2 collapses and to satisfy myself that there was no CD. Both in the context of discussions with a business acquaintance in my former city of residence.

That led me to Internet forum discussions where I needed to flesh out the details of Twin towers collapse mechanisms.

Given "no CD" I had no interest in the WTC7 discussion other than the "big picture' realisation as to the main reason the truth movement latched onto WTC7 as basis for most claims. The facts were 90% visible for the twin towers so "no need for CD" relatively easily established. Not so for WTC7 so amusing to see the "truth" advocates take hold of WTC7 with their preferred tactics of discussion viz "Here is an anomaly I cannot explain - you Mr Debunker prove that it wasn't CD" - easy ground for truthers whilst the "proof' for WTC7 was not easily visible technical facts as was the case for the Twins.

Well I resist both "reverse burden of proof" and "prove a negative" especially a potentially endless series of proving negatives as the goal posts shift.

So I don't enter into a lot of the boring to me repetitive discussions. And (Back on your topic sorry for the derail

) I'm not particularly interested in WTC7 mechanism details. BUT I have objected to some nonsense on the thread "WTC7 and the girder walk-off between column 79 and 44". The main participant more comfortable on his home forum among friends who won't be as searching in argument.

Currently debate on that thread is going round in circles of evasion with my points being carefully ignored/evaded/misrepresented.

If we could only return to those days of genuine honest discussion back in the golden days of 2007-8.

Cheers

Oystein · 7th May 2012, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by uglypig

i711.photobucket(.)com/albums/ww114/peterene/fig_5_20.jpg

i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww114/peterene/595527698.jpg

This photo had been taken about one minute before the global collapse ensued. I shows a big cloud of dust that has spread to a considerable distance. This, along the the NW corner measurement indicates a large scale local collapse. The progression of failures was taking place during the last two minutes and has the potential to explain the rapid, almost symetrical collapse even better than the NIST simulation.

youtu. be/KELwL9DCqqw?t=7m54s

Video showing another possible local collapses in the final 30 minutes.

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/fig_5_20.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w.../595527698.jpg

Which dust cloud are you talking about - the one near the ground, behind the traffic lights?
And can you explain what the graph shows?

And finally, where in the video is the information you want us to take in? Do I have to watch all 10 minutes of it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KELwL9DCqqw

Thanks.

slowsmile · 7th May 2012, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Oystein

[
And finally, where in the video is the information you want us to take in? Do I have to watch all 10 minutes of it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KELwL9DCqqw

Thanks.

I think the OP is referring to the section from approx 7:29 on which appears to show a considerable volume of smoke issuing from the eastern end of the lower north face of WTC7 just prior to collapse.

ozeco41 · 7th May 2012, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Oystein

...And finally, where in the video is the information you want us to take in? Do I have to watch all 10 minutes of it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KELwL9DCqqw

Thanks.

The OP had this parameter -- "t=7m54s" - which should be where to look. I haven't tried it.

Oystein · 7th May 2012, 05:42 PM

Oh ok, thanks.

Hmm well I looked at the entire video earlier, but didn't see much of quirky dust movements that I could unequivocally associate with specific buildings and floors

Reactor drone · 7th May 2012, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by uglypig

I think that the floor system..likely in the whole northeastern quarter of the building had been gone long before the visible onset of the collapse, or at least the area under the east penthouse.

The NIST model can't account for a lot of things (the bowing of the north wall, rapid freefall descent of the west penthouse).. I think this can.

The NIST model does have a large scale internal collapse leading to the fall of the east mechanical penthouse prior to the global collapse. The internal collapse then progressed westwards. Not sure if the west penthouse ever dropped at freefall, the measurement point NIST used was on the roofline of the north face.

7th May 2012, 01:31 AM	#1
uglypig Banned Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 42	Local collapse in WTC7 at ~ 5:20pm i711.photobucket(.)com/albums/ww114/peterene/fig_5_20.jpg i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww114/peterene/595527698.jpg This photo had been taken about one minute before the global collapse ensued. I shows a big cloud of dust that has spread to a considerable distance. This, along the the NW corner measurement indicates a large scale local collapse. The progression of failures was taking place during the last two minutes and has the potential to explain the rapid, almost symetrical collapse even better than the NIST simulation. youtu. be/KELwL9DCqqw?t=7m54s Video showing another possible local collapses in the final 30 minutes.
uglypig Banned Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 42

7th May 2012, 02:17 AM	#3
uglypig Banned Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 42	I think that the floor system..likely in the whole northeastern quarter of the building had been gone long before the visible onset of the collapse, or at least the area under the east penthouse. The NIST model can't account for a lot of things (the bowing of the north wall, rapid freefall descent of the west penthouse).. I think this can.
uglypig Banned Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 42

7th May 2012, 01:50 AM	#2
ozeco41 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia Posts: 3,655	Originally Posted by uglypig http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww114/peterene/fig_5_20.jpg http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w.../595527698.jpg This photo had been taken about one minute before the global collapse ensued. I shows a big cloud of dust that has spread to a considerable distance. This, along the the NW corner measurement indicates a large scale local collapse. The progression of failures was taking place during the last two minutes and has the potential to explain the rapid, almost symetrical collapse even better than the NIST simulation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KELwL9DCqqw?t=7m54s Video showing another possible local collapses in the final 30 minutes. Welcome uglypig - I am familiar with some of your postings from another forum. I have corrected the url links in the above quote so they should now work. There has been a lot of discussion of WTC7 collapse on this forum so you may wish to be specific about what you want to say or claim.

7th May 2012, 02:45 AM	#4
ozeco41 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia Posts: 3,655	Originally Posted by uglypig I think that the floor system..likely in the whole northeastern quarter of the building had been gone long before the visible onset of the collapse, or at least the area under the east penthouse. The NIST model can't account for a lot of things (the bowing of the north wall, rapid freefall descent of the west penthouse).. I think this can. Understood and thanks. My personal interest in WTC collapses arose out of the need to understand WTC1 and WTC2 collapses and to satisfy myself that there was no CD. Both in the context of discussions with a business acquaintance in my former city of residence. That led me to Internet forum discussions where I needed to flesh out the details of Twin towers collapse mechanisms. Given "no CD" I had no interest in the WTC7 discussion other than the "big picture' realisation as to the main reason the truth movement latched onto WTC7 as basis for most claims. The facts were 90% visible for the twin towers so "no need for CD" relatively easily established. Not so for WTC7 so amusing to see the "truth" advocates take hold of WTC7 with their preferred tactics of discussion viz "Here is an anomaly I cannot explain - you Mr Debunker prove that it wasn't CD" - easy ground for truthers whilst the "proof' for WTC7 was not easily visible technical facts as was the case for the Twins. Well I resist both "reverse burden of proof" and "prove a negative" especially a potentially endless series of proving negatives as the goal posts shift. So I don't enter into a lot of the boring to me repetitive discussions. And (Back on your topic sorry for the derail ) I'm not particularly interested in WTC7 mechanism details. BUT I have objected to some nonsense on the thread "WTC7 and the girder walk-off between column 79 and 44". The main participant more comfortable on his home forum among friends who won't be as searching in argument. Currently debate on that thread is going round in circles of evasion with my points being carefully ignored/evaded/misrepresented. If we could only return to those days of genuine honest discussion back in the golden days of 2007-8. Cheers

7th May 2012, 07:54 AM	#5
Oystein Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 9,752	Originally Posted by uglypig i711.photobucket(.)com/albums/ww114/peterene/fig_5_20.jpg i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww114/peterene/595527698.jpg This photo had been taken about one minute before the global collapse ensued. I shows a big cloud of dust that has spread to a considerable distance. This, along the the NW corner measurement indicates a large scale local collapse. The progression of failures was taking place during the last two minutes and has the potential to explain the rapid, almost symetrical collapse even better than the NIST simulation. youtu. be/KELwL9DCqqw?t=7m54s Video showing another possible local collapses in the final 30 minutes. http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/fig_5_20.jpg http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w.../595527698.jpg Which dust cloud are you talking about - the one near the ground, behind the traffic lights? And can you explain what the graph shows? And finally, where in the video is the information you want us to take in? Do I have to watch all 10 minutes of it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KELwL9DCqqw Thanks.

7th May 2012, 04:25 PM	#6
slowsmile Thinker Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: NWO Bistro Posts: 214	Originally Posted by Oystein [ And finally, where in the video is the information you want us to take in? Do I have to watch all 10 minutes of it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KELwL9DCqqw Thanks. I think the OP is referring to the section from approx 7:29 on which appears to show a considerable volume of smoke issuing from the eastern end of the lower north face of WTC7 just prior to collapse.

7th May 2012, 04:35 PM	#7
ozeco41 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia Posts: 3,655	Originally Posted by Oystein ...And finally, where in the video is the information you want us to take in? Do I have to watch all 10 minutes of it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KELwL9DCqqw Thanks. The OP had this parameter -- "t=7m54s" - which should be where to look. I haven't tried it.

7th May 2012, 05:42 PM	#8
Oystein Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 9,752	Oh ok, thanks. Hmm well I looked at the entire video earlier, but didn't see much of quirky dust movements that I could unequivocally associate with specific buildings and floors

7th May 2012, 06:46 PM	#9
Reactor drone Muse Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ministry of housinge Posts: 628	Originally Posted by uglypig I think that the floor system..likely in the whole northeastern quarter of the building had been gone long before the visible onset of the collapse, or at least the area under the east penthouse. The NIST model can't account for a lot of things (the bowing of the north wall, rapid freefall descent of the west penthouse).. I think this can. The NIST model does have a large scale internal collapse leading to the fall of the east mechanical penthouse prior to the global collapse. The internal collapse then progressed westwards. Not sure if the west penthouse ever dropped at freefall, the measurement point NIST used was on the roofline of the north face.