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Ranb · 14th September 2012, 04:29 PM

Mini-guns are no substitute for the host country securing the area around the embassies. The US seems to be very hesitant to use deadly force to protect their embassies. I can not recall when US embassy security actually repelled rioters by force when needed.

Ranb

Kid Eager · 14th September 2012, 04:30 PM

Ahhh.... there's nothing quite like waking up in the morning to another false dichotomy poll, created solely so that the creator can fee smug and superior about his/here/its worldview.

I'm sorry, my choice is not available on the poll.

Jekyll's Guest · 14th September 2012, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

I gotsta get me mo sleep

Poor Shemp, never gets the lovin'.

Ausmerican · 14th September 2012, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

Should Western embassies worldwide be armed with miniguns?
Yes, good idea, people should protect themselves.
No, doing so might actually harm peaceful protestors by accident; or cause an acceleration of tensions; or defies your peacenik and/or pacifist principals (or whatever).

Protesters storm German embassy in Sudan
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19605646

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I AGREE

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I AGREE

Quick question Bill. Now that we have decided that all embassies should be protected with miniguns; you were intending that to apply to all foreign embassies on United States soil as well, right?

Travis · 14th September 2012, 07:02 PM

If Ed209 is good enough for Detroit I say we deploy them to the embassies.

applecorped · 14th September 2012, 08:22 PM

Tanks would be better. And mini-nukes.

trustbutverify · 14th September 2012, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Ranb

Mini-guns are no substitute for the host country securing the area around the embassies. The US seems to be very hesitant to use deadly force to protect their embassies. I can not recall when US embassy security actually repelled rioters by force when needed.

Ranb

It can complicate the situation when the host government has little or no desire to protect the embassy, or is even responsible for the attack itself.

Laeke · 14th September 2012, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Consulates usually do not have the level of security you have in an embassy,since a Consulate is a "branch office" of an embassy. It is usually just a few clerks and an Admin Officer to handle things like Visa Applications, exceptions from tariffs and imports fees,etc. There is usually nothing high profile there.

That's my understanding as well.
I'm unsure of kind of set up has been established in Libya (Embassy in Tripoli?), but the I wouldn't be surprised a less than ideal building would have been chosen security wise, and not only because they forgot the mini-guns...

MG1962 · 14th September 2012, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

I am not.

You seem to be unable to differentiate between fact and supposition. You seem to rely on imagination instead of inquiry.

Once the walls have been broken and the embassy ground is invaded, it is no different than an invasion of one country by people from another and all is fair game.

Thank you for proving my point in such an outstanding way

Virus · 15th September 2012, 01:17 AM

I think anyone who tries to storm a Western embassy should be shot.

funk de fino · 15th September 2012, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by Virus

I think anyone who tries to storm a Western embassy should be shot.

What about Eastern Embassiess?

angrysoba · 15th September 2012, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

I gotsta get me mo sleep

I vote for that!

Ziggurat · 15th September 2012, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by funk de fino

What about Eastern Embassiess?

Obviously Eastern embassies should not have miniguns. They should have teams of ninjas.

Robrob · 15th September 2012, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

Should Western embassies worldwide be armed with miniguns?
Yes, good idea, people should protect themselves.
No, doing so might actually harm peaceful protestors by accident; or cause an acceleration of tensions; or defies your peacenik and/or pacifist principals (or whatever).

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

I am not.

You seem to be unable to differentiate between fact and supposition. You seem to rely on imagination instead of inquiry.

Once the walls have been broken and the embassy ground is invaded, it is no different than an invasion of one country by people from another and all is fair game.

Interesting you are so supportive of foreign embassies being permitted mini-guns inside the United States.

Originally Posted by Virus

I think anyone who tries to storm a Western embassy should be shot.

And anyone who tries to storm a non-Western embassy?

Wolrab · 15th September 2012, 03:33 PM

Snopes? They are left wing tools!*

*except when they are right wing tools...or centrist tools..

Ziggurat · 15th September 2012, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Wolrab

Snopes? They are left wing tools!*

Robrob · 15th September 2012, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Wolrab

Snopes? They are left wing tools!*

*except when they are right wing tools...or centrist tools..

I have heard people actually make the argument you shouldn't listen to Snopes because, "they don't do any research, they just use Google."

... and who didn't use Google to fact check before emailing everyone in their address book?

Soapy Sam · 16th September 2012, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by IDB87

Why don't they just expand the Marine Security Guard to include detachments in hotspots like Libya and Egypt and Tunisia? I don't think we need them in places like Florida.

I seem to recall Florida was more of a threat to America's idea of democracy than any bunch of torch-and-pitchfork toting peasants.

Embassy staff know they are taking a chance. It's not a job for sissies.

Undesired Walrus · 16th September 2012, 10:19 AM

Oh Bill, I've missed you.

funk de fino · 16th September 2012, 10:50 AM

This has got to be close to the worst poll ever seen here?

How about a poll on it?

Crossbow · 19th September 2012, 06:49 AM

Perhaps some of you all have not heard of diplomatic reciprocity.

So to explain, if Western countries were to install mini-guns in its various embassies throughout the world, then these countries would also be granting permission for non-Western countries to install mini-guns in their various embassies throughout the world.

So a better question is:

Should All Of The Embassies (Western, Eastern, Northern, Southern, etc.) In The World Be Armed With Mini-Guns?

richardm · 19th September 2012, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Crossbow

Should All Of The Embassies (Western, Eastern, Northern, Southern, etc.) In The World Be Armed With Mini-Guns?

I say the answer is a resounding "Yes!" and so do my fellow General Electric shareholders.

Yes, good idea, people should protect themselves.	7	25.93%
No, doing so might harm protestors; or cause an acceleration of tensions; or defies your pacifist principals (or whatever).	20	74.07%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

14th September 2012, 04:30 PM	#42
Kid Eager Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 3,567	Ahhh.... there's nothing quite like waking up in the morning to another false dichotomy poll, created solely so that the creator can fee smug and superior about his/here/its worldview. I'm sorry, my choice is not available on the poll.
	__________________ What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it....

14th September 2012, 07:02 PM	#45
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 18,105	If Ed209 is good enough for Detroit I say we deploy them to the embassies.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

14th September 2012, 08:22 PM	#46
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,834	Tanks would be better. And mini-nukes.
	__________________ All You Need Is Love.

14th September 2012, 10:50 PM	#48
Laeke Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: France Posts: 443	Originally Posted by dudalb Consulates usually do not have the level of security you have in an embassy,since a Consulate is a "branch office" of an embassy. It is usually just a few clerks and an Admin Officer to handle things like Visa Applications, exceptions from tariffs and imports fees,etc. There is usually nothing high profile there. That's my understanding as well. I'm unsure of kind of set up has been established in Libya (Embassy in Tripoli?), but the I wouldn't be surprised a less than ideal building would have been chosen security wise, and not only because they forgot the mini-guns...
	__________________ "The idea of justice is not a result of the social pact, as some pretended ; on the contrary, it is the very foundation of society" Prince Adam Jerzy Czartoryski, Essay on diplomacy

14th September 2012, 04:29 PM	#41
Ranb Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA USA Posts: 4,207	Mini-guns are no substitute for the host country securing the area around the embassies. The US seems to be very hesitant to use deadly force to protect their embassies. I can not recall when US embassy security actually repelled rioters by force when needed. Ranb

14th September 2012, 05:28 PM	#43
Jekyll's Guest Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,948	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson I gotsta get me mo sleep Poor Shemp, never gets the lovin'.

14th September 2012, 08:26 PM	#47
trustbutverify Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,193	Originally Posted by Ranb Mini-guns are no substitute for the host country securing the area around the embassies. The US seems to be very hesitant to use deadly force to protect their embassies. I can not recall when US embassy security actually repelled rioters by force when needed. Ranb It can complicate the situation when the host government has little or no desire to protect the embassy, or is even responsible for the attack itself.

14th September 2012, 10:51 PM	#49
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson I am not. You seem to be unable to differentiate between fact and supposition. You seem to rely on imagination instead of inquiry. Once the walls have been broken and the embassy ground is invaded, it is no different than an invasion of one country by people from another and all is fair game. Thank you for proving my point in such an outstanding way

15th September 2012, 01:17 AM	#50
Virus Master Templar Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 6,279	I think anyone who tries to storm a Western embassy should be shot.
	__________________ "The folks who proclaim their sensitivity, nuanced thinking, therapeutic concern for the tender sensibilities of others, and open-mindedness have always been the most vicious, bigoted, narrow-minded, crude, dogmatic, conformist people on the planet." - Victor Davis Hanson.

15th September 2012, 01:25 AM	#51
funk de fino Dreaming of unicorns Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alba Posts: 10,813	Originally Posted by Virus I think anyone who tries to storm a Western embassy should be shot. What about Eastern Embassiess?
	__________________ Stundie - Avoided like the plaque, its a scottish turn of phrase. Christopher 7 - There is no need to contact them for conformation. That is just a denial tactic

15th September 2012, 08:43 AM	#52
angrysoba Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 8,887	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson I gotsta get me mo sleep I vote for that!

15th September 2012, 08:46 AM	#53
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,285	Originally Posted by funk de fino What about Eastern Embassiess? Obviously Eastern embassies should not have miniguns. They should have teams of ninjas.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

15th September 2012, 10:49 AM	#54
Robrob Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,660	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson Should Western embassies worldwide be armed with miniguns? Yes, good idea, people should protect themselves. No, doing so might actually harm peaceful protestors by accident; or cause an acceleration of tensions; or defies your peacenik and/or pacifist principals (or whatever). Originally Posted by Bill Thompson I am not. You seem to be unable to differentiate between fact and supposition. You seem to rely on imagination instead of inquiry. Once the walls have been broken and the embassy ground is invaded, it is no different than an invasion of one country by people from another and all is fair game. Interesting you are so supportive of foreign embassies being permitted mini-guns inside the United States. Originally Posted by Virus I think anyone who tries to storm a Western embassy should be shot. And anyone who tries to storm a non-Western embassy?
Robrob Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,660

15th September 2012, 03:33 PM	#55
Wolrab Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The Beautiful Finger Lakes Posts: 1,716	Snopes? They are left wing tools!* *except when they are right wing tools...or centrist tools..
	__________________ "Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov

15th September 2012, 07:46 PM	#56
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,285	Originally Posted by Wolrab Snopes? They are left wing tools!*
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

15th September 2012, 08:34 PM	#57
Robrob Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,660	Originally Posted by Wolrab Snopes? They are left wing tools!* *except when they are right wing tools...or centrist tools.. I have heard people actually make the argument you shouldn't listen to Snopes because, "they don't do any research, they just use Google." ... and who didn't use Google to fact check before emailing everyone in their address book?
Robrob Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,660

16th September 2012, 09:54 AM	#58
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,928	Originally Posted by IDB87 Why don't they just expand the Marine Security Guard to include detachments in hotspots like Libya and Egypt and Tunisia? I don't think we need them in places like Florida. I seem to recall Florida was more of a threat to America's idea of democracy than any bunch of torch-and-pitchfork toting peasants. Embassy staff know they are taking a chance. It's not a job for sissies.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,928

16th September 2012, 10:19 AM	#59
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 10,904	Oh Bill, I've missed you.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, 1945

16th September 2012, 10:50 AM	#60
funk de fino Dreaming of unicorns Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alba Posts: 10,813	This has got to be close to the worst poll ever seen here? How about a poll on it?
	__________________ Stundie - Avoided like the plaque, its a scottish turn of phrase. Christopher 7 - There is no need to contact them for conformation. That is just a denial tactic

19th September 2012, 06:49 AM	#61
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,349	Perhaps some of you all have not heard of diplomatic reciprocity. So to explain, if Western countries were to install mini-guns in its various embassies throughout the world, then these countries would also be granting permission for non-Western countries to install mini-guns in their various embassies throughout the world. So a better question is: Should All Of The Embassies (Western, Eastern, Northern, Southern, etc.) In The World Be Armed With Mini-Guns?
	__________________ A man's best friend is his dogma.

19th September 2012, 08:54 AM	#62
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Originally Posted by Crossbow Should All Of The Embassies (Western, Eastern, Northern, Southern, etc.) In The World Be Armed With Mini-Guns? I say the answer is a resounding "Yes!" and so do my fellow General Electric shareholders.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.