Moderated: Julian Assange: rapist or not?

[Wudang]

Originally Posted by Watanabe

If it is OK for you to invade a country outside the UN legality and shooting at civilians from a chopper and laughing at them soon after, we have a very different framework of morality

Morality does not equal law. Swedish law requires that they investigate crimes. This may be deduced from links previously posted and also the fact that they have a police force.

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No.
But if you do not protest when a country you have strong relationships with gives a free ride to people who kill and slaughter, then you are an hyposcrite and a coward

Relevance?

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Expecially if soon after you want to be taken seriously for the prosecution of someone in the UK for sex crimes

Well they tried prosecuting him in Sweden so he ran to the UK so that's where they have to prosecute him.

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So you really think they are looking for "justice"?

Morality and justice and law are each different things, sadly.

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But then they go after Assange so much because of a sex crime.
Are they credible?
Not much

Emphasis added. Yes it's a crime so the police and prosecution went after him because that's what the law requires.

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Sweden did not go after much immoral actions by the US Government, but it is spending a lot of energy to go after Assange, which did not do anything remotely like.
Very suspcious

It's suspicious that the Swedish police investigated and the Swedish legal system went after Assange for allegedly committing offences against Swedish citizens on Swedish soil?

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OK.
Call them sex crimes.

Because they are, as agreed by both Swedish and UK courts (at the highest level).

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Nothing remotely close to start a war that lead to 200000+ deaths
Something the US and the UK did, with the support of Japan
Outside the UN legality or on very shacky legal grounds.
Sweden did not protest much.
But then they go after Assange in the UK for sex crimes.
Suspicious

It's suspicious the police investigate crimes, again?

[Watanabe]

Originally Posted by Wudang

Morality does not equal law. Swedish law requires that they investigate crimes. This may be deduced from links previously posted and also the fact that they have a police force.

The very essence of law is (or should be) morality
Law without morality is just legalized oppression

Originally Posted by Wudang

Relevance?

I already explained

Originally Posted by Wudang

Well they tried prosecuting him in Sweden so he ran to the UK so that's where they have to prosecute him.

Why so much attention for his alleged se crimes and no attention for the illegal invasion of Iraq, which led to 200000+ people dead?

Originally Posted by Wudang

Morality and justice and law are each different things, sadly.

I agree. Law without morality is just legalized oppression

Originally Posted by Wudang

Emphasis added. Yes it's a crime so the police and prosecution went after him because that's what the law requires.

The UN Charter requires to pass through the UNSC before invading another country.
The US did not
Sweden is a member of the UN and an ally of the US
Why the Swedish Government did not condemn the US for behaving as the law requires?
And why instead they are putting somuch effort in looking after Assange?

Originally Posted by Wudang

It's suspicious that the Swedish police investigated and the Swedish legal system went after Assange for allegedly committing offences against Swedish citizens on Swedish soil?

Absolutely yes
Why so much attention for his alleged sex crimes and no attention for the illegal invasion of Iraq, which led to 200000+ people dead?

Originally Posted by Wudang

It's suspicious the police investigate crimes, again?

Yes.
If the alleged criminal is looked after with so much effort and he is responsible of one of the biggest leaks in history
And the Swedish Government had no attention for the illegal invasion of Iraq, which led to 200000+ people dead

[nathan]

Originally Posted by Watanabe

Why so much attention for his alleged se crimes and no attention for the illegal invasion of Iraq, which led to 200000+ people dead?

what? there was an invasion? The media commented on that at all?

[nathan]

Originally Posted by Watanabe

The UN Charter requires to pass through the UNSC before invading another country.
The US did not
Sweden is a member of the UN and an ally of the US
Why the Swedish Government did not condemn the US for behaving as the law requires?
And why instead they are putting somuch effort in looking after Assange?

Your original claim was the US wanted to get JA because he exposed war crimes in Iraq. Now you're claiming the Iraq invasion itself was illegal -- but that doesn't involve JA in anyway. So why is it relevant?

[TjW]

It's interesting that your opinion is that two wrongs DO make a right.

[Watanabe]

Originally Posted by nathan

Your original claim was the US wanted to get JA because he exposed war crimes in Iraq.

False

Originally Posted by nathan

Now you're claiming the Iraq invasion itself was illegal -- but that doesn't involve JA in anyway. So why is it relevant?

Read my posts to find out

[Wudang]

Originally Posted by Watanabe

The very essence of law is (or should be) morality
Law without morality is just legalized oppression

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy...xcluded_middle

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I already explained

No you said it was bad. You did not say why it was relevant to your desire to see Assange free to rape and plunder. (see above)

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Why so much attention for his alleged se crimes and no attention for the illegal invasion of Iraq, which led to 200000+ people dead?

Swedish law requires that they investigate crimes. This may be deduced from links previously posted and also the fact that they have a police force.

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I agree. Law without morality is just legalized oppression

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy...xcluded_middle

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The UN Charter requires to pass through the UNSC before invading another country.
The US did not
Sweden is a member of the UN and an ally of the US
Why the Swedish Government did not condemn the US for behaving as the law requires?
And why instead they are putting somuch effort in looking after Assange?



Absolutely yes
Why so much attention for his alleged sex crimes and no attention for the illegal invasion of Iraq, which led to 200000+ people dead?

Swedish law requires that they investigate crimes. This may be deduced from links previously posted and also the fact that they have a police force.
Thanks for repeating yourself so much. It saves me trouble.

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Yes.
If the alleged criminal is looked after with so much effort and he is responsible of one of the biggest leaks in history
And the Swedish Government had no attention for the illegal invasion of Iraq, which led to 200000+ people dead

You still have to show why
a) the Swedish legal system (not the government, the legal system) should not investigate and press charges against someone accused of crimes
b) what this has to do with the Swedish government (not the legal system) not carrying out an independent investigation for alleged crimes committed elsewhere.
Or are you arguing that once an alleged rapist flees a country, the country should drop charges and not use the EAW system devised for this kind of case? Or is that the UK is supposed to have refused to fulfil its obligations to pursue an EAW? Something it has always done. And a lot of the expense was actually in allowing him appeal after appeal so justice was not only done but seen to be done with all the legal reasoning laid out plain for anyone to read... well anyone who has actually followed the case.

[Captain_Swoop]

Watanabe, Why didn't the USA just extradite him from the UK? They have a very good extradition treaty with the UK.

[PhantomWolf]

So Watanabe, can I get a yes or no answer on this.

You think Sweden can't be trusted because it failed to condem the Iraq Invasion?

[Watanabe]

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

So Watanabe, can I get a yes or no answer on this.

You think Sweden can't be trusted because it failed to condem the Iraq Invasion?

No Governments (including the Japanese) can be trusted at face value.
Japan supported US invasion

Originally Posted by Wudang

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy...xcluded_middle

?

Originally Posted by Wudang

No you said it was bad. You did not say why it was relevant to your desire to see Assange free to rape and plunder. (see above)

False.
I never said I want to see Assange free to rape and plunder

Originally Posted by Wudang

Swedish law requires that they investigate crimes. This may be deduced from links previously posted and also the fact that they have a police force.

Exactly. I agree

Originally Posted by Wudang

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy...xcluded_middle

?

Originally Posted by Wudang

Swedish law requires that they investigate crimes. This may be deduced from links previously posted and also the fact that they have a police force.
Thanks for repeating yourself so much. It saves me trouble.

Exactly. I agree

Originally Posted by Wudang

You still have to show why
a) the Swedish legal system (not the government, the legal system) should not investigate and press charges against someone accused of crimes

This is not my claim

Originally Posted by Wudang

b) what this has to do with the Swedish government (not the legal system) not carrying out an independent investigation for alleged crimes committed elsewhere.

I was not talking about investigation

Originally Posted by Wudang

Or are you arguing that once an alleged rapist flees a country, the country should drop charges and not use the EAW system devised for this kind of case? Or is that the UK is supposed to have refused to fulfil its obligations to pursue an EAW?

No
No

[nathan]

Originally Posted by Watanabe

False

Please clarify what your original claim was then.

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Read my posts to find out

I have read your posts, and that is the conclusion I came to. If you'd like me to come to a different conclusion then please provide evidence to support whatever it is you're claiming.