Would someone help me find out what caused this to happen

[RSLancastr]

I did not read through the entire thread, so my apologies if this has already been covered, but...

I think that a hospital stay - particularly one involving surgery - can cause a person to - consciously or subconsciously - think about their own mortality.

If so, it would be understandable if people they know who have died would be on their mind.

This could conceivably lead to dreams, daydreams and, if they are prone to such things, hallucinations regarding those dead people.

When I was in hospital following my stroke, I don't remember consciously dwelling on death and dying, but I knew that the doctors had said that my stroke was so massive they were surprised it hadn't killed me.

At one point, I thought that my speech therapist was asking me if I had any last words.

So, my mortality was on my mind.

While I don't remember dreaming or hallucinating that any dead people had come to visit me, I did from time to time wonder why Nana and Papa (my ex's parents) had not dropped in to visit me at the hospital.

Even after I recalled that they had both died a few years earlier, I would still occasionally think it strange that they had not dropped by. Then I would remember (again) that they were dead.

I don't know how well this all applies to the topic, but I just wanted to add my two cents' worth.

[Robin1]

Originally Posted by wasapi

I'll try to make this brief.

Awhile back my step-father went to the hospital for surgery. All went well, and they planned to release him in a few days, earlier then was expected.

At that point I flew down to visit him for a couple of days, and was pleased to find him cheerful and alert. They had taken him off all medication, and were giving him something like Advil.

The day was wonderful. We watched the World Series together which had been a ritual for us. I left after visiting hours, but came back early the next morning.

Again, he was sitting up eating breakfast, rosey cheeks as usual, laughing and talking. He then asked me to sit down because he had something to tell me.

A footnote: This was my step father, he had been my birth fathers best friend. When my dad died, my step father married my mom. I just want to point out that when he talked to me about my real father, he always refered to him as "Your Daddy".

And that is how it started. He told me my "daddy" had "visited" him last night after I left. He had left a message for me about how proud he was of me for how I had raised my sons by myself.

Then there were others who had come to visit. He told me about his conversations with them. What all the "visitors" had in common was they were dead.

Two days later, something went terribly wrong. So, 4 days after this conversation we had, about my daddy and others, he died.

I know there is an answer to explain this in a non-paranormal way. I'm just asking for help figuring it out.

Thank you.

Wasapi, I am so sorry about the loss of your 2 wonderful Dads.
While I am not currently involved anymore on commenting on this forum (long story) I read your thread and just couldn't stop myself.
What struck me about your original post was the beautiful, loving message that your stepfather attempted to deliver to you from your Daddy about how proud he was of you.
What struck me about the responding comments was how most everyone gave you lots of possible explanations as to what happened but did not even consider at all the possibility that what your stepdad described to you was real.
Didn't even consider it at all.
Didn't even try to weigh all the other explanations against the possibility it was real... at all.
And that makes all the difference when trying to discover what is the truth.
Because, in order to be truly open-minded you must consider ALL possibilities when trying to discern the most logical and accurate explanation.
Reports of communicating with deceased loved ones while someone is near death are common.
Question is... why is it so common?
Is it because it actually is happening or a host of other possible explanations?
With regard to your Stepdad, you said his mind was clear and coherent when speaking to him about all other topics, so to me that would indicate problems with his brain or medicine still left in his system possibly clouding his thinking were more than likely out.
Also, given the fact that you and your Stepdad shared a very special bond when it came to not believing in woo, I find it highly unlikely he would fabricate a story like that about communicating with your Daddy.
Also it would seem that your relationship to your Stepdad was such that he wouldn't feel the need to make up a story to try and tell you in a roundabout way that he himself was proud of you. He would just say it directly.
Also, the fact that he became very angry when your Mother tried to dismiss his experience as a dream , I feel shows that he really did believe what he was telling you was real. In essence, he had a revelation. So strong and so believable to him that he had to share it with you in the hopes that you would consider it. All the moreso because it came from him , a fellow non- believer ,that you loved and trusted. And remember how sharp and coherent you described him as being with everything else that you were talking about. As an aside, I am surprised your Mother who believed in lots of woo stuff, tried to so easily dismiss your stepdad's experience as a dream?!
Anyway, I just wanted to give you another "possible" explanation to consider.
I do believe all on here would agree that your Stepdad wanted you to know he believed your daddy would be proud of you, as was he, and they loved you, Wasapi.
Peace.

[Vinegar Tom]

Firstly, as most posters have already said, my condolences on losing someone who obviously meant a lot to you. And secondly, my congratulations for not automatically assuming that a statement made with total sincerity in extremely emotive circumstances was objectively true, rather than subjectively true to the person who said it. There's a very big difference, and if more people understood this, skeptical debates might be a bit less vicious (and both sides are to blame on that count).

If you want a non-mystical explanation for this story, the first thing to remember is that humans have more than five senses. No, not the spoon-bending type - senses that only apply to the interior of your own body, and are handled almost entirely by your subconscious mind. Last time I looked, there were reckoned to be about two dozen of them. That's why pregnant women, who are very vulnerable to mineral deficiencies, instinctively eat weird things - a friend of mine's mother got through an entire bath-mat, which probably indicates that she was running low on sulphur.

So it's not unreasonable to assume that many animals, including people, know when there's so much wrong with them that death is imminent. If you've ever owned a cat that died of old age, you'll know that as the end approaches, they become strangely calm, and drag themselves off to die very quietly in a secluded place. I don't for a second think that cats have religious tendencies and are making peace with their god (presumably Bubastis). This is pure Darwinian behaviour. Predators are attracted by weak or sick individuals, whereas members of your own species will very likely rally round and try to help. If you instinctively know that you're about to die and there's absolutely nothing that anyone can do, you can't help yourself, but you can help your species, and in particular members of your immediate family, by becoming strangely calm and dragging yourself off so that your dead or dying body won't attract predators or scavengers to the vicinity of your perfectly healthy relatives. And if you're too weak to move, the least you can do is to die as quietly as you possibly can, so a strange sense of calm is helpful.

Humans are of course very complex animals indeed. So a human who instinctively knew he was dying could, without being in any way senile or brain-damaged, feel so strongly that he needed to resolve certain issues in order to achieve the peace of mind necessary for a tranquil death that his brain would conjure up long-deceased people so that outstanding issues could be resolved. These apparitions would have no basis in reality, but at the same time, they would be the product of a very special situation, so this doesn't reflect on your step-father's sanity in his last days; in every other respect his grasp of reality may very probably have been as sharp as it ever was.

This would also mean that the things he said to you in his last days, and which meant so much to you, were not in any way the ramblings of a man whose dying bran wasn't working properly, hence his tendency to hallucinate. It's much more probable that a good man who had always been shy about showing his emotions instinctively knew that he was dying, and felt compelled to say things he never had before in order to die peacefully.

So your step-father was expressing himself more sincerely than he had at any other time in his life, even if he didn't consciously know why. Ultimately it doesn't matter whether a supernatural being arranged all this, or whether a basic mammalian instinct that gets a bit complicated in humans because so does everything else prompted his actions - a good man understood that things he had always worried about weren't so bad really, and then said what was in his heart to his living relatives.

By the way, attentive readers will note that death-bed visions - the juicy ones that get reported, anyway - aren't always as pleasant as this. In fact, usually not. Given that we are apparently the only animal that truly comprehends death (though some of us are still in denial - see the irrelevant responses to almost every thread on this forum), I suggest that wasapi's step-father's instinctive attempt to tie up all his loose ends owing to imminent death implies very strongly that the life he led had very little in it that anyone could possibly be ashamed of. Which of course bodes well for his next life, in the extremely unlikely even that there is one.

PS - I cannot claim to be an atheist, since absolute certainty that God (or anything else) doesn't exist would require me to be omniscient, which is a unique quality of God. Therefore... Oh dear, I seem to be tangled up in a logical loop. Could somebody pass the Occam's Razor?

[Soapy Sam]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012...nations-review

A review of Oliver Sacks' recent book "Hallucinations". You may find it interesting, Wasapi.

[truethat]

It's funny that you said that about dying alone. A friend of mine is a Chaplain Resident who sits with the dying. She was surprised to see that they if they knew they were going, they wanted to be alone rather than with everyone around them. When the families would walk out of the room to take a call or a break, the person would slip away while they were alone. Curious if anyone else here in the medical field has a similar experience.

Here's an article about it.


http://www.nia.nih.gov/health/public...n-someone-dies

[Charlie Wilkes]

Has anybody looked at this guy...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1951475.html

I don't know what to think of that. Maybe he's spinning a line. Or maybe there's something to it.

[wasapi]

Originally Posted by Robin1

Wasapi, I am so sorry about the loss of your 2 wonderful Dads.
While I am not currently involved anymore on commenting on this forum (long story) I read your thread and just couldn't stop myself. (snipped) . . .

Anyway, I just wanted to give you another "possible" explanation to consider.
I do believe all on here would agree that your Stepdad wanted you to know he believed your daddy would be proud of you, as was he, and they loved you, Wasapi.
Peace.

Thank you for your thoughtful post, Robin. And, I'm sorry about your situation and harrasment. I hope you can post here again.

[wasapi]

Originally Posted by Vinegar Tom

Firstly, as most posters have already said, my condolences on losing someone who obviously meant a lot to you. And secondly, my congratulations for not automatically assuming that a statement made with total sincerity in extremely emotive circumstances was objectively true, rather than subjectively true to the person who said it. There's a very big difference, and if more people understood this, skeptical debates might be a bit less vicious (and both sides are to blame on that count).
(snip)

Humans are of course very complex animals indeed. So a human who instinctively knew he was dying could, without being in any way senile or brain-damaged, feel so strongly that he needed to resolve certain issues in order to achieve the peace of mind necessary for a tranquil death that his brain would conjure up long-deceased people so that outstanding issues could be resolved. These apparitions would have no basis in reality, but at the same time, they would be the product of a very special situation, so this doesn't reflect on your step-father's sanity in his last days; in every other respect his grasp of reality may very probably have been as sharp as it ever was.

This would also mean that the things he said to you in his last days, and which meant so much to you, were not in any way the ramblings of a man whose dying bran wasn't working properly, hence his tendency to hallucinate. It's much more probable that a good man who had always been shy about showing his emotions instinctively knew that he was dying, and felt compelled to say things he never had before in order to die peacefully.

So your step-father was expressing himself more sincerely than he had at any other time in his life, even if he didn't consciously know why. Ultimately it doesn't matter whether a supernatural being arranged all this, or whether a basic mammalian instinct that gets a bit complicated in humans because so does everything else prompted his actions - a good man understood that things he had always worried about weren't so bad really, and then said what was in his heart to his living relatives.
(snip)

PS - I cannot claim to be an atheist, since absolute certainty that God (or anything else) doesn't exist would require me to be omniscient, which is a unique quality of God. Therefore... Oh dear, I seem to be tangled up in a logical loop. Could somebody pass the Occam's Razor?

Vinegar Tom, thank you. Really. Thank you. What a great post. Interesting and beautifully written.

And a first post. Welcome to the forum Tom. I look forward to reading you more.

[wasapi]

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012...nations-review

A review of Oliver Sacks' recent book "Hallucinations". You may find it interesting, Wasapi.

I just read the review. It does sound quite intriguing, and I want to know more.. Though I've been trying to just read fiction lately, I think that I will probably buy a copy.

Thanks!

[wasapi]

Originally Posted by truethat

It's funny that you said that about dying alone. A friend of mine is a Chaplain Resident who sits with the dying. She was surprised to see that they if they knew they were going, they wanted to be alone rather than with everyone around them. When the families would walk out of the room to take a call or a break, the person would slip away while they were alone. Curious if anyone else here in the medical field has a similar experience.

Here's an article about it.


http://www.nia.nih.gov/health/public...n-someone-dies

Yes, that is my understanding as well, having dealt with hospice. No, I'm not a nurse or anyone in the medical field, but I've worked with hospice as a care giver who stayed until the person passed. I recall her telling me how "frequently, folks wait until their alone".

The thing is, what is meant by "frequently"?

[wasapi]

Originally Posted by Charlie Wilkes

Has anybody looked at this guy...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1951475.html

I don't know what to think of that. Maybe he's spinning a line. Or maybe there's something to it.

Thanks. Interesting story.

I will read the entire account (on their links) to see what his story is about, however, just reading what was on your link, I have a good idea of what my opinion will be.

[Miss_Kitt]

Thought you might be due for another HUG, wasapi.

I haven't been able to come in lately, so here's another: :

[torifrog]

Wasapi. I will add this, FWIW - and I am VERY sorry for your loss.

I lost my mother, my father, and one of my two sisters within a 5 year period. 2 of the 3 died at home, nursed by me and my one remaining sibling. Each one was "visited" by pre-deceased people (my mother by her sister, my father by his brother, my sister by our parents) a week before they died. In each case we were unsure of exactly when they would die.

I have no explanation, and although I like to think of myself as mostly rational, these events made me start questioning things a little bit.

In any case - whether it was hallucinations or drugs or whatever .. it gave each of them comfort, and to me, that's what's important.

[wasapi]

Originally Posted by torifrog

Wasapi. I will add this, FWIW - and I am VERY sorry for your loss.

I lost my mother, my father, and one of my two sisters within a 5 year period. 2 of the 3 died at home, nursed by me and my one remaining sibling. Each one was "visited" by pre-deceased people (my mother by her sister, my father by his brother, my sister by our parents) a week before they died. In each case we were unsure of exactly when they would die.

I have no explanation, and although I like to think of myself as mostly rational, these events made me start questioning things a little bit.

In any case - whether it was hallucinations or drugs or whatever .. it gave each of them comfort, and to me, that's what's important.

Thank you, and you raise a good point. Whatever caused the 'visits', it did seem to both comfort him and made him really happy. (He was so glad to see my daddy and so pleased how well he looked.).