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JoeTheJuggler · 21st February 2013, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by monty1

Arpaio is an evil freak Joe but in general I have to say that his kind of plan is the solution in the short term. The primary objective is to stop the slaughter of children.

So I only speak in favour of it in general terms.

And you can only support it with flawed reasoning, as I've shown.

The fact that no gun policy will eliminate the problem of gun violence does not argue at all in support of Arpaio's plan. It is most definitely no proof that the plan is "necessary" as you have claimed--even if you want to change it to "necessary in the short term".

Travis · 21st February 2013, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by monty1

No they don't. Travis looks like he's of Russian descent. I'm assuming that's him in the avatar. Good looking lad! I just wish he would apply himself and come out with something longer than his oneliners.

Thank you. Actually I am a combination of Belgian and Danish.

And I don't always do one liners. I've won a Language Award or two in my day.

Originally Posted by carlitos

Google didn't help me there.

monty1, these weird tangents aren't helping your argument. Just FYI.

Oh don't worry...

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

I believe that's my cue to point out once again that I'm not even American, that I agree with Monty on a handful of issues, and that I find the High Priest of Poe to be alternately sad and amusing.

...I am in more for the amusement at this point.

monty1 · 22nd February 2013, 11:20 AM

Travis, I think I almost have it now. It's Mark with the degree and it's you with the language awards. If it proves to be so then I owe you an apology for mistaken identity.

monty1 · 22nd February 2013, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

And you can only support it with flawed reasoning, as I've shown.

The fact that no gun policy will eliminate the problem of gun violence does not argue at all in support of Arpaio's plan. It is most definitely no proof that the plan is "necessary" as you have claimed--even if you want to change it to "necessary in the short term".

I watch the news and I see that Arpaio's plan and generally the plan the NRA came out with first is being implemented all over your country. Parents of school children can't be blamed if it's a kneejerk reaction because they have too much at stake.

So accept it on that basis alone. Whether it will work or not can be debated but I suspect it will have at least some positive effect. As for being worth the cost that is going to break a lot of schools, who knows?

However, it must be seen as only a temporary solution. The trouble is, Americans don't want to face the issue headon and so it threatens to be the permanent fix for a sick society.

Border Reiver · 22nd February 2013, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by monty1

I watch the news and I see that Arpaio's plan and generally the plan the NRA came out with first is being implemented all over your country. Parents of school children can't be blamed if it's a kneejerk reaction because they have too much at stake.

So accept it on that basis alone. Whether it will work or not can be debated but I suspect it will have at least some positive effect. As for being worth the cost that is going to break a lot of schools, who knows?

However, it must be seen as only a temporary solution. The trouble is, Americans don't want to face the issue headon and so it threatens to be the permanent fix for a sick society.

The idea that improperly vetted "guards" are being taught to shoot so that the schools of Maricopa County can be guarded from the road should cause no end of concern to parents, teachers, people who don't live in the same country, etc.

If (and it is a huge if) there is a demonstrable threat requiring that schools be guarded, then let it be done by properly vetted and trained guards, not by a volunteers of variable quality. Since elementary school shootings are rather rare the need to protect against them is low, and the idea of putting unqualified guards with firearms into a school should be seen as as big of a "must do something now" reaction as "ban all guns".

Travis · 22nd February 2013, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by monty1

Travis, I think I almost have it now. It's Mark with the degree and it's you with the language awards. If it proves to be so then I owe you an apology for mistaken identity.

Well that works for me.

TubbaBlubba · 23rd February 2013, 08:00 AM

Has this been posted yet?

7 super powers Steven Seagal actually believes he has

monty1 · 23rd February 2013, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Border Reiver

The idea that improperly vetted "guards" are being taught to shoot so that the schools of Maricopa County can be guarded from the road should cause no end of concern to parents, teachers, people who don't live in the same country, etc.

There are a lot of gun issues that 'are' causing concern to parents in the land of the gun, and of course others who care enough to even discuss it here. There is little possibility that they are going to be able to put proper armed guards around all their schools because they're already literally bandrupt. Both literally and morally. But in any case, parents are choosing to go with the best they can afford and that happens to be Arpaio's goon squad too. So it's not so much 'what' they should do as it is what they are doing in desperation. Don't ignore the feelings of the parents who are now desperate to protect their children in an environment that 'they' consider unsafe. And further, I sense you are supporting such a system that has gone bad and I suggest you reconsider your support of said depravity amd rot.

Quote:

If (and it is a huge if) there is a demonstrable threat requiring that schools be guarded, then let it be done by properly vetted and trained guards, not by a volunteers of variable quality. Since elementary school shootings are rather rare the need to protect against them is low, and the idea of putting unqualified guards with firearms into a school should be seen as as big of a "must do something now" reaction as "ban all guns".

Then you decide for yourself what level of protection the children need in their schools. But first tell them that you think the need to protect their children is 'low' in your opinion.

Look pal, I'm not really advocating they do anything such as bending to kneejerk reactions such as the NRA and Arpaio have advocated. I'm saying that it's what they have started to do as a temporary measure. I advocate taking action on more permanent fixes for their problem but they don't really want to do that.

The only difference between them and us is in their heads and that's what needs to be fixed.

Mudcat · 23rd February 2013, 09:39 AM

I remember when I first found out about Steven Seagal and his 'reality television' program... I bet y'all could imagine my initial reaction but my thirst thoughts ran along the lines of "There's no way this overweight, aging, washed up actor can be really doing this, these busts must be staged" and "Damn, I glad I no longer watch television if this is all they have left."

I'm still half expecting the anoucement of Chuck Noris, Texas Ranger.

I blame Survivor.

monty1 · 23rd February 2013, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Mudcat

I remember when I first found out about Steven Seagal and his 'reality television' program... I bet y'all could imagine my initial reaction but my thirst thoughts ran along the lines of "There's no way this overweight, aging, washed up actor can be really doing this, these busts must be staged" and "Damn, I glad I no longer watch television if this is all they have left."

I'm still half expecting the anoucement of Chuck Noris, Texas Ranger.

I blame Survivor.

Those who support Nugent and Seagal probably see no problem at all with them. Anyone who is willing to stand up and support their hate and racist agenda will have to do until they find better.

They at least had a pretty face in the one who was a witch but then she went and started frothing at the mouth telling us she wasn't one. What's a bagger to do?

Prometheus · 23rd February 2013, 08:54 PM

My town has 5 schools, and it's median income and mean property tax revenue are about average for the state. For at least the past 10 years, ever since I've been living here, the school board has paid for a uniformed police detail to be stationed at each of those schools during all times when children are present. This has been completely uncontroversial. The same officer who is assigned to my daughter's school also has the job of taking kids on tours of the police department during school vacations. All the kids know him by name and love having him around the school. Seems to me like a slightly better system than crazy Joe's plan.

thaiboxerken · 24th February 2013, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba

Has this been posted yet?

7 super powers Steven Seagal actually believes he has

Have you heard the story about Steven Seagal and Gene Lebelle? I've heard it from a witness of the account. Apparently, Steven doesn't know when to STFU.

TubbaBlubba · 24th February 2013, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Have you heard the story about Steven Seagal and Gene Lebelle? I've heard it from a witness of the account. Apparently, Steven doesn't know when to STFU.

Pft! Everyone knows Steven used his Aikido force field to make himself impervious to the choke. However, he used his Aikido Mind Reprogramming technique on everyone afterward, to save Gene the humiliation of having failed to put on a simple choke hold.

Eddie Dane · 25th February 2013, 01:10 AM

Side issue: If my entire career hinged on me being a reasonably convincing action star, I'd spend four hours a day at the gym and have roughly the same diet as Mick Jagger.

Why does Seagal look like is the bus boy at the Hear Attack Grill?

thaiboxerken · 27th February 2013, 08:25 AM

Because he already made his fortune and is now just having fun pretending he's the action star he portrayed in his earlier movies.

21st February 2013, 01:46 PM	#161
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 27,166	Originally Posted by monty1 Arpaio is an evil freak Joe but in general I have to say that his kind of plan is the solution in the short term. The primary objective is to stop the slaughter of children. So I only speak in favour of it in general terms. And you can only support it with flawed reasoning, as I've shown. The fact that no gun policy will eliminate the problem of gun violence does not argue at all in support of Arpaio's plan. It is most definitely no proof that the plan is "necessary" as you have claimed--even if you want to change it to "necessary in the short term".
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

21st February 2013, 03:42 PM	#162
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 18,101	Originally Posted by monty1 No they don't. Travis looks like he's of Russian descent. I'm assuming that's him in the avatar. Good looking lad! I just wish he would apply himself and come out with something longer than his oneliners. Thank you. Actually I am a combination of Belgian and Danish. And I don't always do one liners. I've won a Language Award or two in my day. Originally Posted by carlitos Google didn't help me there. monty1, these weird tangents aren't helping your argument. Just FYI. Oh don't worry... Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan I believe that's my cue to point out once again that I'm not even American, that I agree with Monty on a handful of issues, and that I find the High Priest of Poe to be alternately sad and amusing. ...I am in more for the amusement at this point.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

22nd February 2013, 11:20 AM	#163
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836	Travis, I think I almost have it now. It's Mark with the degree and it's you with the language awards. If it proves to be so then I owe you an apology for mistaken identity.
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836

22nd February 2013, 11:27 AM	#164
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler And you can only support it with flawed reasoning, as I've shown. The fact that no gun policy will eliminate the problem of gun violence does not argue at all in support of Arpaio's plan. It is most definitely no proof that the plan is "necessary" as you have claimed--even if you want to change it to "necessary in the short term". I watch the news and I see that Arpaio's plan and generally the plan the NRA came out with first is being implemented all over your country. Parents of school children can't be blamed if it's a kneejerk reaction because they have too much at stake. So accept it on that basis alone. Whether it will work or not can be debated but I suspect it will have at least some positive effect. As for being worth the cost that is going to break a lot of schools, who knows? However, it must be seen as only a temporary solution. The trouble is, Americans don't want to face the issue headon and so it threatens to be the permanent fix for a sick society.
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836

22nd February 2013, 02:13 PM	#165
Border Reiver Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 2,251	Originally Posted by monty1 I watch the news and I see that Arpaio's plan and generally the plan the NRA came out with first is being implemented all over your country. Parents of school children can't be blamed if it's a kneejerk reaction because they have too much at stake. So accept it on that basis alone. Whether it will work or not can be debated but I suspect it will have at least some positive effect. As for being worth the cost that is going to break a lot of schools, who knows? However, it must be seen as only a temporary solution. The trouble is, Americans don't want to face the issue headon and so it threatens to be the permanent fix for a sick society. The idea that improperly vetted "guards" are being taught to shoot so that the schools of Maricopa County can be guarded from the road should cause no end of concern to parents, teachers, people who don't live in the same country, etc. If (and it is a huge if) there is a demonstrable threat requiring that schools be guarded, then let it be done by properly vetted and trained guards, not by a volunteers of variable quality. Since elementary school shootings are rather rare the need to protect against them is low, and the idea of putting unqualified guards with firearms into a school should be seen as as big of a "must do something now" reaction as "ban all guns".
	__________________ Questions, comments, queries, bitches, complaints, rude gestures and/or remarks?

22nd February 2013, 02:18 PM	#166
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 18,101	Originally Posted by monty1 Travis, I think I almost have it now. It's Mark with the degree and it's you with the language awards. If it proves to be so then I owe you an apology for mistaken identity. Well that works for me.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

23rd February 2013, 08:00 AM	#167
TubbaBlubba Knave of the Dudes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Communist Kingdom of Sweden Posts: 7,477	Has this been posted yet? 7 super powers Steven Seagal actually believes he has
	__________________ Disagreement begets progress.

23rd February 2013, 09:34 AM	#168
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836	Originally Posted by Border Reiver The idea that improperly vetted "guards" are being taught to shoot so that the schools of Maricopa County can be guarded from the road should cause no end of concern to parents, teachers, people who don't live in the same country, etc. There are a lot of gun issues that 'are' causing concern to parents in the land of the gun, and of course others who care enough to even discuss it here. There is little possibility that they are going to be able to put proper armed guards around all their schools because they're already literally bandrupt. Both literally and morally. But in any case, parents are choosing to go with the best they can afford and that happens to be Arpaio's goon squad too. So it's not so much 'what' they should do as it is what they are doing in desperation. Don't ignore the feelings of the parents who are now desperate to protect their children in an environment that 'they' consider unsafe. And further, I sense you are supporting such a system that has gone bad and I suggest you reconsider your support of said depravity amd rot. Quote: If (and it is a huge if) there is a demonstrable threat requiring that schools be guarded, then let it be done by properly vetted and trained guards, not by a volunteers of variable quality. Since elementary school shootings are rather rare the need to protect against them is low, and the idea of putting unqualified guards with firearms into a school should be seen as as big of a "must do something now" reaction as "ban all guns". Then you decide for yourself what level of protection the children need in their schools. But first tell them that you think the need to protect their children is 'low' in your opinion. Look pal, I'm not really advocating they do anything such as bending to kneejerk reactions such as the NRA and Arpaio have advocated. I'm saying that it's what they have started to do as a temporary measure. I advocate taking action on more permanent fixes for their problem but they don't really want to do that. The only difference between them and us is in their heads and that's what needs to be fixed.
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836

23rd February 2013, 09:39 AM	#169
Mudcat Man of a Thousand Memes Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,767	I remember when I first found out about Steven Seagal and his 'reality television' program... I bet y'all could imagine my initial reaction but my thirst thoughts ran along the lines of "There's no way this overweight, aging, washed up actor can be really doing this, these busts must be staged" and "Damn, I glad I no longer watch television if this is all they have left." I'm still half expecting the anoucement of Chuck Noris, Texas Ranger. I blame Survivor.
	__________________ The major problem with Ocham's Razor is that while the simplest answer may be the best answer that doesn't make it the only answer or the right one. Kopji: A perfect utopia where everyone follows the rules is more like a hell than a heaven.

23rd February 2013, 09:49 AM	#170
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836	Originally Posted by Mudcat I remember when I first found out about Steven Seagal and his 'reality television' program... I bet y'all could imagine my initial reaction but my thirst thoughts ran along the lines of "There's no way this overweight, aging, washed up actor can be really doing this, these busts must be staged" and "Damn, I glad I no longer watch television if this is all they have left." I'm still half expecting the anoucement of Chuck Noris, Texas Ranger. I blame Survivor. Those who support Nugent and Seagal probably see no problem at all with them. Anyone who is willing to stand up and support their hate and racist agenda will have to do until they find better. They at least had a pretty face in the one who was a witch but then she went and started frothing at the mouth telling us she wasn't one. What's a bagger to do?
monty1 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 836

23rd February 2013, 08:54 PM	#171
Prometheus Acolyte of Víðarr Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: North of Reality Posts: 43,258	My town has 5 schools, and it's median income and mean property tax revenue are about average for the state. For at least the past 10 years, ever since I've been living here, the school board has paid for a uniformed police detail to be stationed at each of those schools during all times when children are present. This has been completely uncontroversial. The same officer who is assigned to my daughter's school also has the job of taking kids on tours of the police department during school vacations. All the kids know him by name and love having him around the school. Seems to me like a slightly better system than crazy Joe's plan.
	__________________ As Einstein once said, "If you can't think of something relevant to say, just make something up and attribute it to some really smart dead guy." "I find your lack of pith disturbing," - Darth Rotor .......... Don't be offended. I'm not calling you a serial killer. -- Ron Tomkins.

24th February 2013, 01:41 PM	#172
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 21,076	Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba Has this been posted yet? 7 super powers Steven Seagal actually believes he has Have you heard the story about Steven Seagal and Gene Lebelle? I've heard it from a witness of the account. Apparently, Steven doesn't know when to STFU.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

24th February 2013, 02:03 PM	#173
TubbaBlubba Knave of the Dudes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Communist Kingdom of Sweden Posts: 7,477	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken Have you heard the story about Steven Seagal and Gene Lebelle? I've heard it from a witness of the account. Apparently, Steven doesn't know when to STFU. Pft! Everyone knows Steven used his Aikido force field to make himself impervious to the choke. However, he used his Aikido Mind Reprogramming technique on everyone afterward, to save Gene the humiliation of having failed to put on a simple choke hold.
	__________________ Disagreement begets progress.

25th February 2013, 01:10 AM	#174
Eddie Dane Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,481	Side issue: If my entire career hinged on me being a reasonably convincing action star, I'd spend four hours a day at the gym and have roughly the same diet as Mick Jagger. Why does Seagal look like is the bus boy at the Hear Attack Grill?

27th February 2013, 08:25 AM	#175
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 21,076	Because he already made his fortune and is now just having fun pretending he's the action star he portrayed in his earlier movies.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine