When the US Government Worked With the Mafia

Mondial · 1st February 2013, 05:53 AM

US president Franklin Roosevelt referred to Italian leader Mussolini as a "gangster". But during world war 2 the Roosevelt administration worked hand in hand with the Mafia during the American invasion of Sicily. In contrast since it came to power in 1922 the Fascist Italian government cracked down on organised crime and shattered a lot of it's strength. So if anyone deserves to be called a gangster it would be Roosevelt as his government colluded with murderers, thieves, racketeers, extortionists, bootleggers and other assorted elements of the underworld.
http://codoh.com/library/document/2593

UTLonghorn · 1st February 2013, 05:57 AM

CODOH? Really?

dudalb · 1st February 2013, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mondial

US president Franklin Roosevelt referred to Italian leader Mussolini as a "gangster". But during world war 2 the Roosevelt administration worked hand in hand with the Mafia during the American invasion of Sicily. In contrast since it came to power in 1922 the Fascist Italian government cracked down on organised crime and shattered a lot of it's strength. So if anyone deserves to be called a gangster it would be Roosevelt as his government colluded with murderers, thieves, racketeers, extortionists, bootleggers and other assorted elements of the underworld.
http://codoh.com/library/document/2593

Mussolini also cracked down on and shattered democracy in Italy. Mussolini, BTW,was very selective about which Mafia Bosses he cracked down on. Some Mafia chiefs who were willing to support Mussolini were able to carry on Business As Usual (Extortion,Blackmail,etc) throughout the Mussolini era.

And, yes, the US did use some Mafiosi as intelligence agents and saboteurs in Sicily, but that has been greatly exaggerated. Supposedly Lucky Luciano was the contact,and as a reward got his Prison term changes to deportation after the war. In war, you don't always have the option of picking angels as your allies all the time.

IDB87 · 1st February 2013, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Mondial

US president Franklin Roosevelt referred to Italian leader Mussolini as a "gangster". But during world war 2 the Roosevelt administration worked hand in hand with the Mafia during the American invasion of Sicily. In contrast since it came to power in 1922 the Fascist Italian government cracked down on organised crime and shattered a lot of it's strength. So if anyone deserves to be called a gangster it would be Roosevelt as his government colluded with murderers, thieves, racketeers, extortionists, bootleggers and other assorted elements of the underworld.
http://codoh.com/library/document/2593

I'm not even mad.

IDB87 · 1st February 2013, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Supposedly Lucky Luciano was the contact,and as a reward got his Prison term changes to deportation after the war.

And there are very discrepant reports about how useful, or involved, Lucky actually was.

Captain_Swoop · 1st February 2013, 01:32 PM

As the saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Plus. the Mafia in Sicily were saints compared to Hitler and his Nazi henchmen.

Delvo · 1st February 2013, 04:17 PM

How did the mafia ever get established in the first place?

DC · 2nd February 2013, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by Mondial

US president Franklin Roosevelt referred to Italian leader Mussolini as a "gangster". But during world war 2 the Roosevelt administration worked hand in hand with the Mafia during the American invasion of Sicily. In contrast since it came to power in 1922 the Fascist Italian government cracked down on organised crime and shattered a lot of it's strength. So if anyone deserves to be called a gangster it would be Roosevelt as his government colluded with murderers, thieves, racketeers, extortionists, bootleggers and other assorted elements of the underworld.
http://codoh.com/library/document/2593

cooperation with murderers in order to kick genocidal asses is legit.

Bikewer · 2nd February 2013, 05:35 AM

I seem to recall a rather well-received novel on this subject back in the late 70s or so....Darned if I can remember the name.

Didaktylos · 2nd February 2013, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Delvo

How did the mafia ever get established in the first place?

Apparently it began as a resistance movement of the native Sicilians against their Norman overlords. Later its leaders became corrupted by power ...

AgeGap · 2nd February 2013, 04:08 PM

What was the alternative? If Roosevelt had aligned himself with Italian communists there is a poosibility that Italy would have ended up behind the Iron Curtain.

BStrong · 2nd February 2013, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Mondial

US president Franklin Roosevelt referred to Italian leader Mussolini as a "gangster". But during world war 2 the Roosevelt administration worked hand in hand with the Mafia during the American invasion of Sicily. In contrast since it came to power in 1922 the Fascist Italian government cracked down on organised crime and shattered a lot of it's strength. So if anyone deserves to be called a gangster it would be Roosevelt as his government colluded with murderers, thieves, racketeers, extortionists, bootleggers and other assorted elements of the underworld.
http://codoh.com/library/document/2593

Roosevelt bad, Mussolini good, then extrapolate that out to fascism good, democracy bad, does that sum it up?

Just so you know, Mussolini sent his troops into Sicily, they proceeded to latch onto every male they could get their hands on from about age 13 up, and tortured confessions out of who they could, murdered a fair number, and repeated until they ran out of suspects.

Does that turn you on, or off?

dudalb · 2nd February 2013, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by IDB87

And there are very discrepant reports about how useful, or involved, Lucky actually was.

THat is why I used the word Supposedly.

B Strongs statement on how Mussolini was very indescrimanate in his crackdown on the Mafia is well taken. He seems to have used the excuse of "Fighting the Mafia" to get rid of a number of his political opponents in Sicily. And, as I noted, a number of Mafia bosses were able to come to an agreement with the Fascist Government and continue business as usual.

Lukraak_Sisser · 2nd February 2013, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

THat is why I used the word Supposedly.

B Strongs statement on how Mussolini was very indescrimanate in his crackdown on the Mafia is well taken. He seems to have used the excuse of "Fighting the Mafia" to get rid of a number of his political opponents in Sicily. And, as I noted, a number of Mafia bosses were able to come to an agreement with the Fascist Government and continue business as usual.

Hey! quit bringing facts, political realities and recorded history into this.

1st February 2013, 05:53 AM	#1
Mondial Thinker Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 229	When the US Government Worked With the Mafia US president Franklin Roosevelt referred to Italian leader Mussolini as a "gangster". But during world war 2 the Roosevelt administration worked hand in hand with the Mafia during the American invasion of Sicily. In contrast since it came to power in 1922 the Fascist Italian government cracked down on organised crime and shattered a lot of it's strength. So if anyone deserves to be called a gangster it would be Roosevelt as his government colluded with murderers, thieves, racketeers, extortionists, bootleggers and other assorted elements of the underworld. http://codoh.com/library/document/2593
Mondial Thinker Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 229

1st February 2013, 05:57 AM	#2
UTLonghorn Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 352	CODOH? Really?
	__________________ Clifford Stern: "What is the guy so upset about? You'd think nobody was ever compared to Mussolini before."

1st February 2013, 12:23 PM	#4
IDB87 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In the Grass Posts: 3,416	Originally Posted by Mondial US president Franklin Roosevelt referred to Italian leader Mussolini as a "gangster". But during world war 2 the Roosevelt administration worked hand in hand with the Mafia during the American invasion of Sicily. In contrast since it came to power in 1922 the Fascist Italian government cracked down on organised crime and shattered a lot of it's strength. So if anyone deserves to be called a gangster it would be Roosevelt as his government colluded with murderers, thieves, racketeers, extortionists, bootleggers and other assorted elements of the underworld. http://codoh.com/library/document/2593 I'm not even mad.
	__________________ It's guaranteed I'm overreacting.

1st February 2013, 12:24 PM	#5
IDB87 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In the Grass Posts: 3,416	Originally Posted by dudalb Supposedly Lucky Luciano was the contact,and as a reward got his Prison term changes to deportation after the war. And there are very discrepant reports about how useful, or involved, Lucky actually was.
	__________________ It's guaranteed I'm overreacting. Last edited by IDB87; 1st February 2013 at 12:33 PM.

2nd February 2013, 01:52 AM	#8
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,674	Originally Posted by Mondial US president Franklin Roosevelt referred to Italian leader Mussolini as a "gangster". But during world war 2 the Roosevelt administration worked hand in hand with the Mafia during the American invasion of Sicily. In contrast since it came to power in 1922 the Fascist Italian government cracked down on organised crime and shattered a lot of it's strength. So if anyone deserves to be called a gangster it would be Roosevelt as his government colluded with murderers, thieves, racketeers, extortionists, bootleggers and other assorted elements of the underworld. http://codoh.com/library/document/2593 cooperation with murderers in order to kick genocidal asses is legit.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

1st February 2013, 10:00 AM	#3
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,837	Originally Posted by Mondial US president Franklin Roosevelt referred to Italian leader Mussolini as a "gangster". But during world war 2 the Roosevelt administration worked hand in hand with the Mafia during the American invasion of Sicily. In contrast since it came to power in 1922 the Fascist Italian government cracked down on organised crime and shattered a lot of it's strength. So if anyone deserves to be called a gangster it would be Roosevelt as his government colluded with murderers, thieves, racketeers, extortionists, bootleggers and other assorted elements of the underworld. http://codoh.com/library/document/2593 Mussolini also cracked down on and shattered democracy in Italy. Mussolini, BTW,was very selective about which Mafia Bosses he cracked down on. Some Mafia chiefs who were willing to support Mussolini were able to carry on Business As Usual (Extortion,Blackmail,etc) throughout the Mussolini era. And, yes, the US did use some Mafiosi as intelligence agents and saboteurs in Sicily, but that has been greatly exaggerated. Supposedly Lucky Luciano was the contact,and as a reward got his Prison term changes to deportation after the war. In war, you don't always have the option of picking angels as your allies all the time.

1st February 2013, 01:32 PM	#6
Captain_Swoop Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 3,931	As the saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Plus. the Mafia in Sicily were saints compared to Hitler and his Nazi henchmen.

1st February 2013, 04:17 PM	#7
Delvo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Harrisburg, Pennsylvania Posts: 3,886	How did the mafia ever get established in the first place?

2nd February 2013, 05:35 AM	#9
Bikewer Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 9,532	I seem to recall a rather well-received novel on this subject back in the late 70s or so....Darned if I can remember the name.

2nd February 2013, 01:55 PM	#10
Didaktylos Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 400	Originally Posted by Delvo How did the mafia ever get established in the first place? Apparently it began as a resistance movement of the native Sicilians against their Norman overlords. Later its leaders became corrupted by power ...
	__________________ It's untrue that blokes can't multi-task: I can avoid doing any number of things simultaneously.

2nd February 2013, 04:08 PM	#11
AgeGap Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St.Helens, UK Posts: 2,386	What was the alternative? If Roosevelt had aligned himself with Italian communists there is a poosibility that Italy would have ended up behind the Iron Curtain.

2nd February 2013, 04:52 PM	#12
BStrong Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: California Posts: 3,816	Originally Posted by Mondial US president Franklin Roosevelt referred to Italian leader Mussolini as a "gangster". But during world war 2 the Roosevelt administration worked hand in hand with the Mafia during the American invasion of Sicily. In contrast since it came to power in 1922 the Fascist Italian government cracked down on organised crime and shattered a lot of it's strength. So if anyone deserves to be called a gangster it would be Roosevelt as his government colluded with murderers, thieves, racketeers, extortionists, bootleggers and other assorted elements of the underworld. http://codoh.com/library/document/2593 Roosevelt bad, Mussolini good, then extrapolate that out to fascism good, democracy bad, does that sum it up? Just so you know, Mussolini sent his troops into Sicily, they proceeded to latch onto every male they could get their hands on from about age 13 up, and tortured confessions out of who they could, murdered a fair number, and repeated until they ran out of suspects. Does that turn you on, or off?

2nd February 2013, 08:31 PM	#13
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,837	Originally Posted by IDB87 And there are very discrepant reports about how useful, or involved, Lucky actually was. THat is why I used the word Supposedly. B Strongs statement on how Mussolini was very indescrimanate in his crackdown on the Mafia is well taken. He seems to have used the excuse of "Fighting the Mafia" to get rid of a number of his political opponents in Sicily. And, as I noted, a number of Mafia bosses were able to come to an agreement with the Fascist Government and continue business as usual.

2nd February 2013, 10:55 PM	#14
Lukraak_Sisser Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,619	Originally Posted by dudalb THat is why I used the word Supposedly. B Strongs statement on how Mussolini was very indescrimanate in his crackdown on the Mafia is well taken. He seems to have used the excuse of "Fighting the Mafia" to get rid of a number of his political opponents in Sicily. And, as I noted, a number of Mafia bosses were able to come to an agreement with the Fascist Government and continue business as usual. Hey! quit bringing facts, political realities and recorded history into this.