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3rd December 2012, 07:39 AM | #1 |
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Windows 8 another Vista?
It is beginnig to look like a rerun of Vista, slow take up, Compatability issues, PC manufactuers not keen.
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3rd December 2012, 11:56 AM | #2 |
The Infinitely Prolonged
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Not exactly like Vista. But, there are some similarities.
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3rd December 2012, 12:15 PM | #3 |
Illuminator
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Interesting anecdote: There's a game called "Hellgate London" that went kaput and then was resurrected by some other company. The game is pretty poorly optimized, and even high end machines tend to have issues. Users who upgrade to windows 8 report the game operating flawlessly and with high framerates even on elderly machines.
No first hand evidence yet, but I'll be upgrading to 8 in a week or so. I do some tech work, so I want some first hand experience with the OS. |
3rd December 2012, 01:11 PM | #4 |
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"Plays 5 year old out of print game flawlessly" is hardly a slogan the marketing department can use effectively.
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3rd December 2012, 02:19 PM | #5 |
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There isn't the same performance problem that Vista had. On my system at least, Windows 8 seems much more responsive than Windows 7. This is different than the XP-to-Vista update, where nice fast XP systems ended up crawling under Vista.
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3rd December 2012, 02:35 PM | #6 |
New Blood
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I actually really like 8. Definitely faster than 7, especially on lower end and/or older machines. Metro takes some getting used to, and I find I don't miss the start button much at all. Even if you do miss the start button there are plenty of shells out there that will bring it back. The only comparability issue I had was with an old tv tuner on one of my htpc's.
Don't upgrade before researching if your graphics card is compatible. Also, don't do it the weekend before a big work/school project is due since it may take a day or two to get used to the new interface. |
3rd December 2012, 10:15 PM | #7 |
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Start8, from StarDock, seems to be the best add-in for Windows 8, for those who want the Start Menu back.
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4th December 2012, 02:49 AM | #8 |
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We evalauted for corporate use in my team, Onsite IT support Unit, and did not feel that changing over from Windows 7 to 8 would be of nay real benefit at this time.
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4th December 2012, 04:22 AM | #9 |
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Won't be upgrading, Metro UI looks ugly and garish. Also heard metro programs don't have a windowed mode is that wrong? I heard you can split the screen in half instead but thats not really that handy.
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4th December 2012, 04:38 AM | #10 |
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Wake me when they fix it.
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4th December 2012, 04:42 AM | #11 |
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rumours of Windows 9 already circulating
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4th December 2012, 05:07 AM | #12 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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4th December 2012, 05:09 AM | #13 |
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4th December 2012, 10:36 AM | #14 |
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I haven't used it yet, so I'm just going on what I've read. The interface looks like it might be decent for smartphones/tablets, but looks horrible for a PC with mouse, keyboard, and one or more big displays. I don't know why they couldn't have included a "classic mode" with the (IMO quite good) interface that has been fairly consistent clear back to 95 and NT 4.0.
Apparently they did a good job with the "guts", so it's not quite another Vista, but I think they screwed up with the user interface. |
4th December 2012, 12:33 PM | #15 |
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4th December 2012, 06:20 PM | #16 |
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I've not tried it (couldn't get Virtual Box to work on the trial version) but it seems like a rather messy "portal" compromise. MS felt left out of the touch sensitive boom but awkwardly didn't separate it from the PC version. So we have a touch sensitive phone/pad friendly gateway but past that, few former PC progs built or even potentially suitable for touch.
OK for a phone or pad but completely impractical to use a 22 inch plus screen for touch anyway for any length of time. Pads are for consuming content, Pcs still best for creating content. They should have had Windows Touch 1 for phones and pads plus Windows 7 plus for Pcs as there are some changes made in Win8 that probably are an improvement like start up time or memory use. |
5th December 2012, 05:12 AM | #17 |
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5th December 2012, 05:24 AM | #18 | |||
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For crying out loud people, except for the start button being replaced with a start screen, the desktop mode is virtually EXACTLY THE DAMN SAME as Windows 7. Same taskbar, same apps, same icons, same desktop etc etc
This is why people like Sinofsky deserve to have been fired. It's the marketers who have somehow allowed the tech press to post completely ignorant BS about their products and utterly mislead the public. It's not just Windows 8 software either, same is happening with the Surface. Microsoft has completely lost control of the conversation and have utterly failed to communicate the realities of this software and hardware. As such it is another Vista, ala Project Mojave -
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5th December 2012, 05:27 AM | #19 |
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Is their mission to make PCs harder to operate so they can sell more tablets or something?
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5th December 2012, 06:57 AM | #20 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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5th December 2012, 08:43 AM | #21 |
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It's worse than that: Microsoft wants to expect Windows users to use the Modern UI instead of the Desktop for all or most new applications.
Two things are keeping that from happening too rapidly: 1. Their own designs of key applications rely on the Desktop paradigm, for now: Microsoft Office, and lots and lots of Windows utilities that they couldn't convert over in time. 2. User's resistence to the change. I will grant that, from a developer's perspective, there are a few advantages to the Modern UI: Better stateless apps being one of them. But, it's hard to sell users on an interface that is deemed too crappy for too many computer users (even if a few actually like it), based on developer's needs. Seems like an arrogant statement to me. "Our users are pointing out real flaws in our design. We must COMMUNICATE this NEW REALITY we are forcing upon them better!" One way you can tell that Android and iOS are designed better: You DON'T have too many people poking fun at how bad the UI is for either one! Microsoft could have designed a UI just as good as Android's. They deliberately chose not to. They chose the demeaning course of baby blocks. The Start8 utility from StarDock allows you to start in Desktop mode. |
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5th December 2012, 11:07 AM | #22 |
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Right, so you have to add on software to get the system to behave as users of previous versions would expect it to. I should have been clearer, but I was talking about the OS out of the box. There is no option to set it to start up in Desktop mode. You can add extra software to do all sorts of things, but then you're dealing with a third party, and no longer have a standard Windows system.
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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5th December 2012, 11:17 AM | #23 |
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5th December 2012, 11:24 AM | #24 |
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Yes, they should have allowed that option, but it's not as major an issues as you might think. The thing is it is very rare to do a cold start. Windows 8 is designed for modern PCs and they're nearly always put in a sleep or hibernate mode, not a cold boot. I have not fully restarted my Win 8 machine outside of maintenance, so I always start in desktop mode where I was.
Rubbish. Do you have any evidence at all to support that assertion?
Quote:
You however insist on implying I'm a baby for having such an opinion. |
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Benford's law of controversy - Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available |
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5th December 2012, 04:23 PM | #25 |
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5th December 2012, 05:14 PM | #26 |
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Giant, monocolor blocks look amateurish on a phone-sized screen. On a big tablet or desktop it must be truly appalling.
I'm more willing to bet they were afraid of the phone icon "desktop" wars between Apple and Samsung/Android and chose to stay out of it with the most idiotically simple rectangles imaginable. |
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5th December 2012, 05:19 PM | #27 |
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None of this will matter after the 21st anyway.
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Guns that are instantly available for use are instantly available for misuse. World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Buying conspiracy books is a voluntary tax on stupid. |
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5th December 2012, 05:28 PM | #28 |
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Classic Shell is free and I have been using it on win 7 for a long time. Very good program. I prefer the win98 type start menu to the win7 one.
http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ |
5th December 2012, 06:18 PM | #29 |
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5th December 2012, 06:47 PM | #30 |
Banned
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5th December 2012, 09:43 PM | #31 |
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Microsoft was aiming to block 3rd party utilities from starting to the desktop, at one point, too. I think they retracted because IT-oriented customers objected.
And, those times it does do a cold start, those who have not used the Modern UI in a while will be at a loss of how to get the desktop back. Certain types of customers need the consistency. How about the simple fact that it... Starts up in Modern UI mode?! Is that not enough of an indication for you? Well, there are a few more indications: As a Microsoft platform developer, I have seen a very disturbing push towards Modern UI development, above and beyond anything much else. (Of course, they did the same thing when the .NET Framework came out, but at least that was an IMPROVEMENT over how UI development was done. The difference, here, is not merely the fact that the UI is a radical departure, but that it is NOT an improvement over conventional Windows UI.) I did not mean to imply anything about you. Not everyone who uses Windows 8 is a baby. Not everyone who watches My Little Pony is a little girl. Sometimes, something can be designed for babies, but well-liked by adults, for some reason. (Though, I suppose using Win8 is not a creepy as adult men buying MLP:FIM dolls.) Given its stark design with blocks and single color logos, its insistence of hiding lots of features and settings from you at any given time, its inclination for low information density, and the walled-garden approach to RT (which does not apply to PCs); I am forced to conclude that the Modern UI was designed a little more for babies than either iOS (which is saying a LOT) and Android. Funny, how every PC maker at the time was trying to make Windows easier to use, with screens like that, and how they were generally disliked even back then. As a side note I find it curious that there are not more complaints about the awkwardness of horizontal scrolling on a mouse with only a vertical scroll wheel. Perhaps there are bigger fish to fry, or something. But, they could have had the decency to give us the option to vertical scroll the Modern UI when using a desktop PC with a mouse, you know. I'm just sayin'... |
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WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where you could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!! |
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6th December 2012, 01:59 AM | #32 |
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6th December 2012, 09:06 AM | #33 |
The Infinitely Prolonged
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This blog is calling it a Christmas Gift for Someone You Hate:
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2...ate-windows-8/ But, there was no reason to completely remove desktop features, at this time. Sure, their usefulness might fade over time. But, for now, they remain too useful for too many people. It's not like it was some sort of difficult engineering challenge to keep it on there, either. They deliberately decided to annoy lots of potential users. |
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WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where you could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!! |
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6th December 2012, 09:23 AM | #34 |
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I needed to do a clean sweep reinstall recently, and tried win8. I couldn't get it to work with my raid drive. It would just error out on start up. It would work fine if I unplugged the raid drive, and only started up from my raptor, but as soon as I plugged it in, I never could get it to start up. So I just wiped and reinstalled win 7.
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"Fixin' crap that ain't broke." |
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6th December 2012, 02:35 PM | #35 |
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Benford's law of controversy - Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available |
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6th December 2012, 04:59 PM | #36 |
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6th December 2012, 05:00 PM | #37 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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6th December 2012, 05:15 PM | #38 |
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Could be worse. MS could be pushing a 21st century version of Bob.
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6th December 2012, 05:42 PM | #39 |
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I've only just recently got my XP machine running the way I like it. At work I was forced to upgrade to Win 7, and it took about 3 months and a dozen or so 3rd party add-ons and registry hacks to make it look and feel like XP. I have a Windows phone and the metro UI drives me up the wall on that.
Just once I'd like to see Microsoft come out with a new version that keeps the previous look/feel/features by default and let's users opt in to whatever changes they want to make on our own time. |
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6th December 2012, 05:45 PM | #40 |
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Benford's law of controversy - Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available |
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