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10th January 2013, 08:38 PM | #321 |
The Infinitely Prolonged
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Which of my examples is inaccurate?
We've gone over this several times. Printer settings would be one of them. Read my past responses for the countless other examples. For desktop machines, it is easier to access them with the classic Start Menu and Start button. My examples, in my previous post, made some of this clear. I suppose that, if someone is the type of person who needs to "get used to" any operating system, then Windows 8 would be just fine. It's just another one to get used to. And, it's hard for someone like that to appreciate how objectively bad or good a UI design might be. It's like someone with hardly any sensitive tastebuds would not be able to appreciate how bad or good something tastes, even if there are objective assessments to be made in that matter. (There is a science to objectively identifying why things taste good or bad. It's not entirely subjective. Just thought I'd mention that.) Maybe that's what's going on, here. |
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11th January 2013, 04:24 AM | #322 |
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I agree with you - I've been using Windowsblinds (or an equivalent) since Windows 95 days and on Windows 7 I was using a skin that did "flatten" the 3D effects so I would have thought I'd have liked the new standard "flat" design but I really don't.
But as you imply that's obviously not a subjective matter it's yet more evidence how terrible Windows 8 is.... |
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11th January 2013, 08:01 AM | #323 |
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Whatever the reasons, they blew it with mobile big time -- the biggest failure in the company's history (Microsoft Bob notwithstanding).
Quote:
As for them being the only ones -- the only ones doing something so dumb. Taking a UI optimized for a small screen and putting it on a large screen windowless. |
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11th January 2013, 09:45 AM | #324 |
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11th January 2013, 10:19 AM | #325 |
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Eh? I said I'd been "flattening" the UI on Windows 7 before I upgraded to Windows 8.... And there is no way you will get me voluntarily downgrading to Windows 7, I like Windows 8's many improvements way too much. I still have to use Windows 7 for work and I hate having to leave Windows 8 and go back to Windows 7 - it really keeps fresh for me how improved Windows 8 is and how much more productive it is for me. |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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11th January 2013, 12:13 PM | #326 |
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I think it's the colors they chose, by default. A little on the gaudy side.
Anyway, there are some ways in which 3D effects do contribute to usability. Such as buttons "popping out" to indicate they can be "pushed in". But, of course, you don't want to overdo it. If everything is all 3D and shaded, nothing stands out, anymore. |
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11th January 2013, 12:25 PM | #327 |
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Windows 8 phone is gorgeous and the best phone OS I've used. Picked up one a couple of weeks ago for my wife and about to get one for me. Be interesting to see if it overcomes perceptions
Quote:
Assuming you're talking about MUI, it is optimized for touch (or motion) screens, not "small screens". |
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11th January 2013, 12:36 PM | #328 |
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Meh. Don't like Windows 8. Just had to buy a new printer because the old one couldn't talk to Windows 8. And, no, there was no driver available to compensate. I guess my printer is too old to be supported.
Anybody want to buy a perfectly-good Dell All-in-one printer with extra ink cartridges? Oy. |
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11th January 2013, 02:27 PM | #329 |
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11th January 2013, 02:33 PM | #330 |
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Benford's law of controversy - Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available |
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11th January 2013, 04:35 PM | #331 |
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Just came across this, it's a list of hotkeys using the Windows key, looks pretty useful.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/20128...nd-tricks.html |
11th January 2013, 09:32 PM | #332 |
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12th January 2013, 01:45 AM | #333 |
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12th January 2013, 03:18 AM | #334 |
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12th January 2013, 04:57 AM | #335 |
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12th January 2013, 05:01 AM | #336 |
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12th January 2013, 05:04 AM | #337 |
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12th January 2013, 09:27 AM | #338 |
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Believe me, I'm glad about that because one day soon I'll be required to upgrade, begrudgingly.
So here's the upgrade proposition: Win 8 ... Comes with (1) a crappy UI that hinders multi-tasking and (2) a UI that's more or less the same as Win7 but with some vexing quirks. Woo hoo, sign me up!? |
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12th January 2013, 11:18 AM | #339 |
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I'm probably misunderstanding, because you seem to be complaining that apps which are designed to work a certain way are working the way they were meant to. Metro apps aren't supposed to window in the desktop. I have tiles for desktop apps that I've put at the very right of the metro screen (right beside the "Desktop" tile that Win8 put there. ) These open up into the desktop environment, windows and all. Meanwhile, any app I have running, metro or desktop, is a hover and click away on the left side of the screen whether I'm in a metro app or the desktop, and all of the desktop apps I have running (windowed or not) are lined up in a very familiar task bar which politely slides out of sight unless I hover on it. From where I sit (the couch) it's the best of both worlds. I can fire up desktop apps from the metro start screen and have as many windows as I want with apps that are written to work that way, and switch to any metro or desktop apps I've got running from any other metro app or the desktop, all with a click or two. What's the downside? |
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12th January 2013, 12:06 PM | #340 |
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Check out the Music, Weather, Travel, and some of the other built-in apps. for examples; as well as the Start Screen, Search Screen, and All Apps screen themselves.
Some 3rd party apps are not as sparse, I suppose. At least not anymore. The built-in Maps app isn't, exactly, "sparse", as it fills the whole monitor nicely. The only problem is that the controls for manipulating it are, puzzlingly, off screen most of the time. The COULD HAVE EASILY put a lot more on screen for you to see and use. Every other mapping software I have ever used doesn't hide their controls all the time, like that. Not even mobile versions. Not even GPS systems, which sometimes have really tiny screens. You don't see the downside in having two separate places to go, to get access to running applications? One of which is almost always off-screen? If I can run Windows applications seemlessly on the Mac desktop, using Parallels or other VM software, why can't Modern UI/classic desktop apps be just as seemlessly integrated? You know, in the early days of development they WERE integrated!! I recall the first time I put together a Metro App (as it was then called), as an exercise, under Windows 7. It ran perfectly fine on the Desktop: Had its own taskbar icon and everything, too. But, Microsoft deliberately decided to push them into their own world, shortly after that. There is no technical reason why they needed to do so. |
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12th January 2013, 05:51 PM | #341 |
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The app I showed was a built in app, News.
Here's weather, I love it. -
Quote:
Quote:
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12th January 2013, 05:53 PM | #342 |
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12th January 2013, 06:00 PM | #343 |
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12th January 2013, 06:03 PM | #344 |
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A year ago I bought a house in the countryside. I suppose you'd consider a lot of the view out my office window to be wasted space ...
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Filling space just for the sake of filling space ... now that's bad design! |
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12th January 2013, 06:45 PM | #345 |
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Not particularly, no. More so since the circumstances where that might occur ... i.e. two separate applications which I need to run in simultaneous windows being unable to accomodate that in Win8 ... are relatively slim. Certainly not enough to trash the whole OS. OTOH, I never was all that enamored of having multiple different programs running simultaneously on the same screen to begin with. Too much clutter. In most cases the potential for distraction offset the inconvenience of a click or two to bring up a screen from the background. It was nice from time to time, but that's about it. The rest of the time it just wasted screen real estate. Switching with the task bar wasn't all that difficult or time consuming. |
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13th January 2013, 04:09 PM | #346 |
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I wasn't suggesting they "fill in space for the sake of it". Even though this about the apps, not the UI, perhaps I should make myself a little clearer about this, using previous versions of Windows as examples:
Windows Vista introduced a Gadget Bar. You can have the weather information you needed: Nothing more, nothing less (well, within some limits). And the REST of the desktop could be filled with whatever you wanted: Applications, etc. Windows 7 still has a Gadgets system, but it is not activated by default, is not advertised much, and it works a little differently. Windows 8: If you want to see the weather on screen, it is either in 1/4 of that screen; or taking up all (or almost all) of it. In the later case, a lot of space is wasted. In the earlier case, your access to info is limited. AND, you can't use that 1/4 screen for anything else (which is actually a UI limitation). If you like wasted space, then stick with Windows 8. I'm just pointing out the design could have been better. That's all. |
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13th January 2013, 05:16 PM | #347 |
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Right, so in the past if I wanted to see the weather, I could have a small app on my desktop with little information, and to see it I'd have to go to the trouble of minimizing or resizing my screen.
Like most people, I gave up on desktop gadgets. Now I just point my mouse in the top left corner, click on the weather icon that appears and get a fully featured weather app with much more information. Yeah, it's terrible. Btw, here's some comments from Steven Sinofsky about trends at CES 2013 - Design language. The design language in use for both hardware and software is trending towards a clarity and minimalism–turning over the screen to the app and the customer. There’s a lot less glowing and translucency. Navigation is clearer. Touch gestures are assumed on any device and often are not readily apparent (that is designers are assuming you will figure out how to touch and tap to make stuff happen). And the use of the full screen for the task at hand is clearly dominant. Rather than gain “speed” or “power” via multitasking by arranging, widgets, picture in picture, and so on, the focus is on moving quickly between task-oriented screens. From program guides to elaborate settings on advanced A/V to apps for healthcare you can see this language. There is a new definition of productivity underway that’s sure to be the topic of a future post. |
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13th January 2013, 05:48 PM | #348 |
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I didn't mean to imply gadgets were the best way to do it. Microsoft could develop something better: Perhaps a more flexible UI that can can have multiple things taking up that 1/4 screen portion, or something.
I was only referring to the usage of space. Which applies to Touch devices. This is not defending what Win8 did to the desktop/KVM users. And, it does NOT defend many of the specific issues I brought up, such as how Search is done, or the lack of persistent clock, or the "screaming children" effect of the Start screen, or its lack of clarity on what is actually clickable (things are too flat, sometimes), etc. etc. etc. I agree that new devices will require new ways of thinking about productivity. I agree with the trend. But, Windows 8 is still bad at doing that, in general. |
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31st January 2013, 12:01 AM | #349 |
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My new Windows 8 laptop arrived today... it's not as bad as I expected. Just as many have said, the familiar Windows UI, minus the start button, is underneath the idiotic phone UI.
The file structure is the same. I had to create my own shutdown button, which is ridiculous. More than anything, the metro UI reminds me of Packard Bell Navigator, from the mid-90s. http://www.guidebookgallery.org/guis/pbnav/screenshots |
31st January 2013, 12:21 AM | #350 |
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You're not the first to say that.
One little thing I don't think I mentioned, yet, were the little perks and advantages Windows 8 brought to C++ developers: They were given first-class support for .NET apps in the new development enviornment, among other things. The language was falling behind C# and VB.NET in previous versions. This doesn't help the problems with the ridiculous UI. But, I thought I would mention it. Motivation to bring more types of developers into the Modern UI has its mild advantages, for some people, it seems. |
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31st January 2013, 08:47 AM | #351 |
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Honeymoon over for early adopters.Windows 8 discount ending today.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01...counts_ending/ Report on latest MS profits.
Quote:
- http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01...mixed_quarter/ |
31st January 2013, 09:10 AM | #352 |
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<winkey>+i Will help speed up shutdown.
<winkey>+x Will give a very helpful menu <winkey>+c Will brink up the charms. Those are the shortcuts I use the most that have made me forget about the start menu. Here is a good list of more shortcuts. http://blog.laptopmag.com/15-essenti...oard-shortcuts |
31st January 2013, 11:42 AM | #353 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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31st January 2013, 12:00 PM | #354 |
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31st January 2013, 12:31 PM | #355 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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31st January 2013, 12:36 PM | #356 |
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31st January 2013, 01:30 PM | #357 |
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I think my bad phrasing has confused you, sorry.
To power off in Windows 7 required 1 mouse move, a click on the start menu and then another click on the "shutdown button". (If the default action isn't what you wanted you have to click on the arrow to open the submenu and then click on the option you want.) To power off in Windows 8 requires 1 mouse move, a click on the settings button then a click on the power button and then a click for the choice of "shutdown" mode.) The difference in Windows 8 and Windows 7 is at most one click and there is no difference if you don't want the Windows 7 default e.g. a restart. That is why I was wondering why it is necessary to have to create a new button for a Windows 8 "power off" if you didn't have one in Windows 7. Now personally as I said above I don't know why they had to add in one extra click as it doesn't seem to have simplified or added anything to "shutdown" but an additional click. But it is only one (at most) additional click. |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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31st January 2013, 01:48 PM | #358 |
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31st January 2013, 01:52 PM | #359 |
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You're right. It's not a big deal, and what I came up with is better than any version of Windows... a shortcut to a command that shuts the system down with no further prompts or input required. It's the easiest thing since DOS and the AT power supply.
"Metro" is mostly just weird and jarring. I boot into a crude, half-baked interface that is completely different from the interface I actually use, and I have to click through it. It's like trialware I can't get rid of. Overall, though, I'm relieved. Windows 8 what comes on new computers, and I needed a new computer. My impression so far is that they haven't made any significant improvements, but they haven't screwed it up as much as I was led to believe. With Microsoft, that's as good as it gets. |
5th February 2013, 03:10 PM | #360 |
Penultimate Amazing
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As of yesterday, (Feb 4 2013) Windows 8 had 2.3% of all Windows computers . (No- I have no idea how they get this figure.)
At the same stage, Windows 7 had 7.7%. (Presumably of a smaller total). It may be no Vista, but neither does it look like a runaway success. And it's hard to see how raising the price 500% is going to help. |
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