Islam Propraganda. Heads or Tails?

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by ddt

Funny that neither Virus, nor you, comment in any way or form on the evident fact that the US broke the law.

I am fully aware that your sole underlying purpose is to make me say the U.S. broke the law, when you know quite well that the Soviets, through their Sandinista and Cuban proxies, were deeply involved in undermining the sovereignty of neighboring countries by exporting revolution.

Even if I were hypothetically willing to jump through your hoops like a good doggie, I am aware that international law is not enforced as rigidly and dogmatically as you would selectively like it to be - particularly when the primary enforcer of the law is the presumptive transgressor and the primary transgressor hasn't even been charged.

Originally Posted by ddt

I'm well aware rulings of the ICJ are rather toothless if the states involved don't have the intent to follow up, especially if the party in the wrong is the greatest superpower.

Follow up how?

Sure, it can hypothetically be done, but it just isn't worth it when the ICJ makes a bogus ruling which ignores half the facts.

Originally Posted by ddt

And I agree with your claim that the support for the Contras in the end had no significant effect. From your POV that means that makes the US' flaunting of international law even more disconcerting: it didn't even do them even any good.

Yeah, that just disconcerts me no end. I don't know how I'll ever live with it.

The zero stays put.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Toontown

I am fully aware that your sole underlying purpose is to make me say the U.S. broke the law, when you know quite well that the Soviets, through their Sandinista and Cuban proxies, were deeply involved in undermining the sovereignty of neighboring countries by exporting revolution.

Even if I were hypothetically willing to jump through your hoops like a good doggie, I am aware that international law is not enforced as rigidly and dogmatically as you would selectively like it to be - particularly when the primary enforcer of the law is the presumptive transgressor and the primary transgressor hasn't even been charged.



Follow up how?

Sure, it can hypothetically be done, but it just isn't worth it when the ICJ makes a bogus ruling which ignores half the facts.



Yeah, that just disconcerts me no end. I don't know how I'll ever live with it.

The zero stays put.

yeah something that is only allowed when your country does it, right?
the end justifies the means....

hypocritical.

[Virus]

Containment and rollback or WW3 with nukes?

Pick one.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Virus

Containment and rollback or WW3 with nukes?

Pick one.

lucky most of us are not living on your black and white planet.

[Virus]

Originally Posted by DC

lucky most of us are not living on your black and white planet.

Sorry. I forgot to add punking out like you did with the Nazis.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Virus

Sorry. I forgot to add punking out like you did with the Nazis.

I did? didnt know that, where is my Gold?

So because our banks did disgusting bussines (and some still do) i have to look the other way whenever others do disgusting things?

btw have i ever spoken supportive to such things like the things described in the article? You have spoken supportive about supporting dictators when it helped to reach your goal.

but apparently i need to stfu because my country did something really bad in the past to not get into trouble with the Nazis. while i never would actually defend dealing with the Nazi regime, i think it was a wrong move, and we should never have cooperated with Nazis to the extend we did. and we have done other bad things in that time, like sending away jews from our borders, etc. i will not defend that, it was wrong, no matter what.

[Virus]

So what is it then? Containment, rollback and arms race (Which worked. The left was against it), all-out nuclear war or punking out?

[DC]

Originally Posted by Virus

So what is it then? Containment, rollback and arms race (Which worked. Left was against it), nuclear war or punking out?

yeah the world would have ended if not the bright star of freedom and democracy had overthrown elected governments in other countries.

[Virus]

Originally Posted by DC

yeah the world would have ended if not the bright star of freedom and democracy had overthrown elected governments Soviet-backed dictatorships in other countries.

Fixed.

You don't even know what you're talking about. You didn't even know it was Soviet policy to establish as many client states as it could in South America.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Virus

Fixed.

you mean you spinned it with claims you were not able to backup, you were asked for evidence and was not able to provide any. you got any now?

[DC]

Originally Posted by Virus

Fixed.

You don't even know what you're talking about. You didn't even know it was Soviet policy to establish as many client states as it could in South America.

you mean, they did the same as the US did and does? how dare they.

[Virus]

Originally Posted by DC

you mean, they did the same as the US did and does? how dare they.

You think Soviet-backed Communist insurgents should have been allowed to set up shop wherever they want.

I don't.

Who turned out to be wrong?

[DC]

Originally Posted by Virus

Do you think Soviet-backed Communist insurgents should have been allowed to set up shop wherever they want?

i think when the people of a country elect a government, its not okey to overthrow this government alsong it does not atack other countries and does not opress its people.

got any evidence that the elected govenment in Nicaragua was a dictatorship?

[Virus]

Mass executions.

Defector Describes “Bloody,” “Corrupt” Regime.

Nicaragua’s leading human rights activist on Sandinista persecution and terror.

Inside the Sandinista regime.

Tropical Chekists: The Sandinista secret police legacy in Nicaragua.

And let's not forget their ethnic cleansing campaign against the Miskito Indians.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Virus

Mass executions.

Defector Describes “Bloody,” “Corrupt” Regime.

Nicaragua’s leading human rights activist on Sandinista persecution and terror.

Inside the Sandinista regime.

Tropical Chekists: The Sandinista secret police legacy in Nicaragua.

And let's not forget their ethnic cleansing campaign against the Miskito Indians.

and was there ever any evidence of all those accusations you postet?

[ANTPogo]

Originally Posted by Virus

Here ANT:

"We shipped weapons." Sandinistas say.

Thank you for providing a link showing there is a small kernel of fact behind your righteously indignant pearl-clutching over the sheer effrontery that one nation would dare to support insurgents fighting against the government of another nation.

Now let's get back to your argument about the US' backing of the contra guerillas in their fight against the government of Nicaragua.

How did the Sandinstas arming Communist insurgents in El Salvador force Reagan administration officials to illegally sell arms to the theocratic Islamic Republic of Iran (which the US had just supported a murderous dictator's invasion of in order to "contain" said theocratic nation), and then divert the proceeds of those illegal arms sales to the brutal contra thugs in Nicaragua?

Quote:

Didn't you know the reason America intervened in South America was to counter the Soviet's strategy of establishing client states by backing Communist insurgents.

That's odd, because your link right above states that the problem the Sandinistas ran into in both their conflict with the contras and their aid to the El Salvadoran rebels is that the Soviet Union wasn't giving them the support they needed.

Say, you don't think the threat from potential Soviet domination of other countries might have been overstated, do you?

Quote:

Didn't preacher-boy mention that during your weekly leftist indoctrination?

You misspelled "ordained priest of the Roman Catholic Church". He also wasn't a "boy" - he always looked like Santa Claus, to me.

Quote:

Maybe one day you'll realize there are two sides to every story. Mine, and the wrong one.

You don't have a "story".

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by DC

yeah something that is only allowed when your country does it, right?
the end justifies the means....

hypocritical.

If you had your way, it would certainly be allowed when the Soviets and their proxies did it. But not, quite selectively, if the U.S. did it in response to the Soviets and their proxies doing it.

Your deep respect for international law is quite selective right down the line, isn't it. You were quite vociferous in opposition when the Chapter 7 sanction was enforced on Iraq, weren't you. But you didn't let out a peep when Russia recently invaded Georgia, did you.

And here's the bad, bad news. When (YOU), in all your rigidly dogmatic selectivity, start enforcing international law, then and only then can you be the cop, judge, and jury. Until then, you're stuck with that mean old worldcop, aka USA.

So you might want to start sewing your "Lawman" suit and practicing your selective fingerpointing powers.

And this can be your theme song, with a few minor adjustments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRQJT...eature=related

And then you'll be walking down the street with your shining badge, your spurs jingling at your feet. You'll see a man a-comin, comin with a gun and...well, you'll just beat feet.

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by DC

lucky most of us are not living on your black and white planet.

Well then. What's your problem? You've got your own little technicolor world to live in, just go ahead and live in it. Frankly, my dear, we don't give a damn.

Unless you start trying to start communist insurgencies in South America. Then we're going to have a big problem.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Toontown

If you had your way, it would certainly be allowed when the Soviets and their proxies did it. But not, quite selectively, if the U.S. did it in response to the Soviets and their proxies doing it.

Your deep respect for international law is quite selective right down the line, isn't it. You were quite vociferous in opposition when the Chapter 7 sanction was enforced on Iraq, weren't you. But you didn't let out a peep when Russia recently invaded Georgia, did you.

And here's the bad, bad news. When (YOU), in all your rigidly dogmatic selectivity, start enforcing international law, then and only then can you be the cop, judge, and jury. Until then, you're stuck with that mean old worldcop, aka USA.

So you might want to start sewing your "Lawman" suit and practicing your selective fingerpointing powers.

And this can be your theme song, with a few minor adjustments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRQJT...eature=related

And then you'll be walking down the street with your shining badge, your spurs jingling at your feet. You'll see a man a-comin, comin with a gun and...well, you'll just beat feet.

Well at the time when sanctions were imposed on Iraq i was not really interested nor informed about those things, later when it turned out that mainly the people suffer under the sanctions i was no friend of the sanctions yes.

and with the Russians invading South Ossetia i was pretty unsure what to think about it, were they really protecting civilians? was it just a landgrab by russia? i was more interested what the people in South Ossetia wanted. but i did not support the invasion and even said on this forum that i think they should get out of georgia.

so your accusations are wrong.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Toontown

Well then. What's your problem? You've got your own little technicolor world to live in, just go ahead and live in it. Frankly, my dear, we don't give a damn.

Unless you start trying to start communist insurgencies in South America. Then we're going to have a big problem.

oh dear, it doesnt even need to be communist, a socialist being elected in Venezuela and Bolivia is already enough to stear up the US governments paranoia.

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by DC

oh dear, it doesnt even need to be communist, a socialist being elected in Venezuela and Bolivia is already enough to stear up the US governments paranoia.

Uh, yeah...

That must have been a nightmare you had last night. You know, the one where the US government got paranoid because a socialist got elected. You know, the one where the US bombed Switzerland.

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by DC

Well at the time when sanctions were imposed on Iraq i was not really interested nor informed about those things, later when it turned out that mainly the people suffer under the sanctions i was no friend of the sanctions yes.

So you wouldn't have enforced that particular international sanction if you had been worldcop then?

Originally Posted by DC

and with the Russians invading South Ossetia i was pretty unsure what to think about it, were they really protecting civilians? was it just a landgrab by russia? i was more interested what the people in South Ossetia wanted. but i did not support the invasion and even said on this forum that i think they should get out of georgia.

So you were walking down the street with your shining badge, your spurs jingling at your feet. You saw the Russians coming, coming with their guns and...well, you thought maybe they should go and stuff. Unless enough South Ossetians wanted them to stay and take over and stuff. Because it was all about what they and the Russians wanted. That was what was important.

Well, you've got my vote, sheriff. With a worldcop like you, rigidly and dogmatically enforcing international law with your awesome ability to point fingers of blame at the U.S., there will be peace in the valley for sure.

Originally Posted by DC

so your accusations are wrong.

Are they?

[DC]

Originally Posted by Toontown

So you wouldn't have enforced that particular international sanction if you had been worldcop then?



So you were walking down the street with your shining badge, your spurs jingling at your feet. You saw the Russians coming, coming with their guns and...well, you thought maybe they should go and stuff. Unless enough South Ossetians wanted them to stay and take over and stuff. Because it was all about what they and the Russians wanted. That was what was important.

Well, you've got my vote, sheriff. With a worldcop like you, rigidly and dogmatically enforcing international law with your awesome ability to point fingers of blame at the U.S., there will be peace in the valley for sure.



Are they?

so you see yourself as a worldcop? the ultimate judge on right and wrong?

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by DC

so you see yourself as a worldcop? the ultimate judge on right and wrong?

Clearly, ddt, Craig B., ANTPogo, and you are the ultimate judges of right and wrong. Isn't that what this whole derail was about? Passing judgement?

So get to it.

I'm just a clown on the bozo bus, waiting meekly for the three of you to finish passing judgement and then actually mete it out. Talk is cheap, you know. You have to actually carry out your judgements, in order for them to mean anything. But I'm sure you knew that. Unless you were just mentally masturbating.

[Craig B]

Originally Posted by Toontown

Clearly, ddt, Craig B., ANTPogo, and you are the ultimate judges of right and wrong. Isn't that what this whole derail was about? Passing judgement?

So get to it.

I'm just a clown on the bozo bus, waiting meekly for the three of you to finish passing judgement and then actually mete it out. Talk is cheap, you know. You have to actually carry out your judgements, in order for them to mean anything. But I'm sure you knew that. Unless you were just mentally masturbating.

I've noted your zap! pow! comic book stuff before. Then for a while we had some paperback-Western sheriff-style bite the dust you varmints material from you, and now you're talking dirty. Is there no end to your literary talents?

[DC]

Originally Posted by Toontown

Clearly, ddt, Craig B., ANTPogo, and you are the ultimate judges of right and wrong. Isn't that what this whole derail was about? Passing judgement?

So get to it.

I'm just a clown on the bozo bus, waiting meekly for the three of you to finish passing judgement and then actually mete it out. Talk is cheap, you know. You have to actually carry out your judgements, in order for them to mean anything. But I'm sure you knew that. Unless you were just mentally masturbating.

so in other words, only you and virus are in a position to pass judgement?

[Craig B]

Originally Posted by DC

so in other words, only you and virus are in a position to pass judgement?

At all events I hope they're not in a position to "carry out their judgements", to make them mean something. That would be very nasty for us all.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Craig B

At all events I hope they're not in a position to "carry out their judgements", to make them mean something. That would be very nasty for us all.

us armchair "worldcops" are no danger in RL

[Craig B]

Originally Posted by DC

us armchair "worldcops" are no danger in RL

But Toontown says

Quote:

I'm just a clown on the bozo bus, waiting meekly for the three of you to finish passing judgement and then actually mete it out. Talk is cheap, you know. You have to actually carry out your judgements, in order for them to mean anything. But I'm sure you knew that. Unless you were just mentally masturbating.

So either he comes to zap us commies, or he's merely sitting on that bozo bus engaging in self abuse.

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by DC

so in other words, only you and virus are in a position to pass judgement?

I've seen some dirty lawyering, but that takes the prize.

Uh...no, Mr. Prosecuting Attorney. Clearly, we are the defense, up against two cutthroat prosecutors and a hanging judge, in the kangaroo court of preacher-boy-informed zombie-left opinion.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Toontown

I've seen some dirty lawyering, but that takes the prize.

Uh...no, Mr. Prosecuting Attorney. Clearly, we are the defense, up against two cutthroat prosecutors and a hanging judge, in the kangaroo court of preacher-boy-informed zombie-left opinion.

maybe if you used real language instead of this nonsensical label stuff you could make a coherent argument?

[Virus]

Maybe you should go back to licking your wounds rather than provoking another round of ass whoppin'.

[Craig B]

Originally Posted by Toontown

the kangaroo court of preacher-boy-informed zombie-left opinion.

Damn! You know where we live! Now we gotta track down that bozo bus, and find that clown, before he comes to get us.

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by Craig B

At all events I hope they're not in a position to "carry out their judgements", to make them mean something. That would be very nasty for us all.

Yes, that would be a nightmare. There wouldn't be any Soviet Union any more, and...er...

And you'd all be sitting there in commie heaven, drinking free bubble-up, eating rainbow stew, and trying to keep us out.

Or something. I really don't know what you're bitching about. I guess you don't like it when commies get a dose of their own medicine. What a bitch. Commies can't even have a decent seizure anymore without some stinking Captain America starting a goddamn counterinsurgency...

...or maybe you just had a little trouble in town...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UD0c58nNCQ

[DC]

Originally Posted by Virus

Maybe you should go back to licking your wounds rather than provoking another round of ass whoppin'.

LOl kiddy, this ain't BF3 or so. no asswooping from you nor toontown, maybe in your wet dreams, but not here in reality.

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by DC

LOl kiddy, this ain't BF3 or so. no asswooping from you nor toontown, maybe in your wet dreams, but not here in reality.

Reality?? What do you know about reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9QV4TCEEXs

[DC]

Originally Posted by Toontown

Reality?? What do you know about reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9QV4TCEEXs

lol you talk about reality and show a hollywood movie..... nice reality you got there.

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by DC

lol you talk about reality and show a hollywood movie..... nice reality you got there.

Beats the crap out of yours.

If you have nothing better to do than sit around trying to make Americans feel contrite about successfully staving off Soviet world domination, then you might as well watch a movie. You could watch "Reds". That would get you all fired up.

Me, I"ve already had breakfast, kicked your butt on the internet, had a long bicycle ride along the river, and now I'm serving as your recreation director. And it's barely past mid-morning. And I'm 63.

Later, I'll practice guitar, finish reading "A Universe From Nothing", go to the library, take a quick trip to the weight room, kick some more internet argue-bot butt, ride my bicycle to the supermarket, make dinner, and maybe watch the Science channel for a while.

Meanwhile, you'll be trying to think of a clever retort. Unsuccessfully.

[Craig B]

Originally Posted by Toontown

Beats the crap out of yours.

If you have nothing better to do than sit around trying to make Americans feel contrite about successfully staving off Soviet world domination, then you might as well watch a movie. You could watch "Reds". That would get you all fired up.

Me, I"ve already had breakfast, kicked your butt on the internet, had a long bicycle ride along the river, and now I'm serving as your recreation director. And it's barely past mid-morning. And I'm 63.

Later, I'll practice guitar, finish reading "A Universe From Nothing", go to the library, take a quick trip to the weight room, kick some more internet argue-bot butt, ride my bicycle to the supermarket, make dinner, and maybe watch the Science channel for a while.

Meanwhile, you'll be trying to think of a clever retort. Unsuccessfully.

No retort, and especially not a clever retort, is required in response to such a dreary list of proposed activities. No wonder you fantasise about zapping commie plotters and making no-good Islamist varmints bite the dust. You should really try to get out more.

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by Craig B

No retort, and especially not a clever retort, is required in response to such a dreary list of proposed activities. No wonder you fantasise about zapping commie plotters and making no-good Islamist varmints bite the dust. You should really try to get out more.

While you lurk in front of your computer, waiting for your next perceived marginalization opportunity. It is good that no clever retort is, in your estimation, required. Because you do not have one.

Hey. It's an average day. Thursday. What do you want - a screenplay?