Telepathy? - Page 2

AdMan · 7th June 2012, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson 75

Doesn't the faster-than-the-speed-of-light barrier only apply to objects with mass?

I'm no physicist, but I believe that Special Relativity says C is the maximum speed at which information can travel.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can explain further or how quantum entanglement fits in...

Brian-M · 7th June 2012, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson 75

Doesn't the faster-than-the-speed-of-light barrier only apply to objects with mass?

No. Light has no rest mass, but you don't see light going faster than light.

Originally Posted by AdMan

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can explain further or how quantum entanglement fits in...

I'm not particularly knowledgeable in physics, but I'm pretty sure you can't actually use quantum entanglement to transmit information.

(And even if you could, how would you get the other entangled particle into the brain of a alien hundreds of light years away?)

jadebox · 8th June 2012, 08:34 AM

[deleted]

666 · 13th October 2012, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by jadebox

[deleted]

I knew you were going to do that.

LarianLeQuella · 15th October 2012, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by Johnny Brant

(PS how do i get an avatar, i want to display my famous "hooded monk" avatar that's renowned throughout internetland)

So famous that I have no idea what you are talking about... Anyone else know about this renowned hooded monk?

Musibrique · 24th October 2012, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Johnny Brant

Is telepathy magic or simply an undeveloped ability that we all have?

The problem with this question is that magic is a very subjective term. Magic is very ambiguous and what we define as magic is nothing but our perception of the universe. For example, if the technologies we have today magically existed in the 17 or 18 century, we would think that those technologies work by magic because we think it is impossible for such thing to happen. However, this is nothing but our ignorance. Our modern day knowledge tells us that these technologies don't work by magic, but via electromagnetic fields, etc.

To answer your question, I would have to say that maybe somewhere in the future telepathy may be considered normal (If it exists)

davefoc · 25th October 2012, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Musibrique

The problem with this question is that magic is a very subjective term. Magic is very ambiguous and what we define as magic is nothing but our perception of the universe. For example, if the technologies we have today magically existed in the 17 or 18 century, we would think that those technologies work by magic because we think it is impossible for such thing to happen. However, this is nothing but our ignorance. Our modern day knowledge tells us that these technologies don't work by magic, but via electromagnetic fields, etc.

To answer your question, I would have to say that maybe somewhere in the future telepathy may be considered normal (If it exists)

I'm in the seriously doubting it category, but technologically assisted telepathy seems like a remote possibility. PET scans that can determine which part of the brain are firing could even now be used to implement a simple form of telepathy. Guy A does something that activates area 1 of his brain. That information is transferred to Guy B. Guy B might be said to have received a message telepathically from Guy A and this might be expanded further. Show Guy A a picture of a naked woman, transmit information about which sections of Guy A's brain are active and Guy B might be able to deduce what Guy A is looking at.

Musibrique · 26th October 2012, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by davefoc

I'm in the seriously doubting it category, but technologically assisted telepathy seems like a remote possibility. PET scans that can determine which part of the brain are firing could even now be used to implement a simple form of telepathy. Guy A does something that activates area 1 of his brain. That information is transferred to Guy B. Guy B might be said to have received a message telepathically from Guy A and this might be expanded further. Show Guy A a picture of a naked woman, transmit information about which sections of Guy A's brain are active and Guy B might be able to deduce what Guy A is looking at.

Interesting

Do you know any studies regarding about this? I would much appreciate it.

LarianLeQuella · 30th October 2012, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Musibrique

Do you know any studies regarding about this? I would much appreciate it.

You mean using something like an fMRI to transmit information from one individual to another? I am not aware of anything like that (and keep in mind, these sort of things would still be limited by technology and physics, so the speed of that transfer would still be limited by the speed of light between points).

However, here are some links to our first few baby steps in at least electronically recording information in the brain.

http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2011/09/22/brain-movies/

http://gizmodo.com/5922208/scientist...ith-your-brain

http://www.technologyreview.com/news...unctional-mri/

Not that we are carrying fMRI machines in our pockets or attached to our ballcaps...

Beerina · 30th October 2012, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by Johnny Brant

Is telepathy magic or simply an undeveloped ability that we all have?

Before suggesting a mechanism, first demonstrate the phenomenon even exists.

Elind · 24th November 2012, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Johnny Brant

Does science know that telepathy doesn't exist?

Does science know that fairies don't exist?

mike3 · 25th November 2012, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by fuelair

We are discussing them - you are just not happy with how. You want a discussion that must assume telepathy is real. There is ZERO evidence for it being real, so discussion is limited to that point.

We do not randomly discuss , for example, "what would it be like if ghosts were all around us and we could see them faintly!" because that does not lead to any intelligent thinking or bring up any new knowledge to any of us. It is more the type of question, as is the OP, that an aspiring Science Fiction author without much knowledge or skill might throw out fishing for free story ideas (which would be worth roughtly their cost).

And again, if you read some of the threads in science, you would hopefully see many good - and some bad- examples.

So how do you go about gaining the necessary knowledge and skill to ask questions that lead to "intelligent thinking and new knowledge"?

mike3 · 25th November 2012, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by fuelair

You are not going to like this, but: we do not like to say that science knows things. Scientists tend to, but.... AND science does not say "x does not exist", it says "no evidence of any kind for the existence of X has been found to exist". To non-scientists, these apparently seem to mean the same thing. They do not and scientists know the difference. With no offence, you need to learn that difference.

But when it comes to actual practical matters, they're treated as the same. We don't go around acting like telepathy might exist just because we can't say "it doesn't exist" scientifically. In other words, when it comes to informing how we should act, "no evidence of any kind for the existence of X has been found to exist" and "x does not exist" might as well be the same thing.

Elind · 25th March 2013, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Johnny Brant

Is telepathy magic or simply an undeveloped ability that we all have?

There is no magic and there is no telepathy, and I am told there are no unicorns either.

Bill Thompson 75 · 2nd April 2013, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Elind

There is no magic and there is no telepathy, and I am told there are no unicorns either.

Were you told verbally or did it seem to just pop into your mind?

dafydd · 3rd April 2013, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson 75

Were you told verbally or did it seem to just pop into your mind?

What's your guess?

Soapy Sam · 6th April 2013, 07:33 AM

My understanding of the etymology of "telepathy" is that it combines Greek roots meaning "distance" and "feeling" (often "suffering" in a medical context- hence pathology , I imagine.) Sympathy. Homoeop...well, maybe not.

Now I recall suffering on a frosty night trying to find (by naked eye) the Andromeda Nebula - and feeling rather pleased when I finally succeeded. So yes, in the interstellar (even intergalactic) context, telepathy does exist.

Shame it only works one way, but we have an actual universe, with actual galaxies.
And it's all free. Let's not be greedy.

Elind · 6th April 2013, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson 75

Doesn't the faster-than-the-speed-of-light barrier only apply to objects with mass?

Given the following from Space.com:

"Dark energy is the name given to an unexplained force that is drawing galaxies away from each other, against the pull of gravity, at an accelerated pace.
Dark energy is a bit like anti-gravity. Where gravity pulls things together at the more local level, dark energy tugs them apart on the grander scale.
Its existence isn't proven, but dark energy is many scientists' best guess to explain the confusing observation that the universe's expansion is speeding up. Experts still don't know what's driving this force, but the quest to learn more about dark energy is one of cosmologists' top priorities."

What is the difference between dark energy and telepathic energy?

Silly question, given that you don't know the answer to the first part, and have had ample evidence of the non existence of the second.

What is the difference between talking squid and unicornes? Should I expect that you don't bother to answer in this thread as in previous ones?

Elind · 6th April 2013, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson 75

Were you told verbally or did it seem to just pop into your mind?

Do you think you are being clever?

Bill Thompson 75 · 11th April 2013, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Elind

Do you think you are being clever?

I will share credit with the one (to remain anonymous) who sent the clever thought to me.

7th June 2012, 02:15 PM	#41
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,197	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson 75 Doesn't the faster-than-the-speed-of-light barrier only apply to objects with mass? I'm no physicist, but I believe that Special Relativity says C is the maximum speed at which information can travel. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can explain further or how quantum entanglement fits in...
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,197	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

7th June 2012, 10:58 PM	#42
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,289	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson 75 Doesn't the faster-than-the-speed-of-light barrier only apply to objects with mass? No. Light has no rest mass, but you don't see light going faster than light. Originally Posted by AdMan Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can explain further or how quantum entanglement fits in... I'm not particularly knowledgeable in physics, but I'm pretty sure you can't actually use quantum entanglement to transmit information. (And even if you could, how would you get the other entangled particle into the brain of a alien hundreds of light years away?)
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim Last edited by Brian-M; 7th June 2012 at 11:01 PM.

8th June 2012, 08:34 AM	#43
jadebox Muse Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Oviedo, FL Posts: 904	[deleted]
	__________________ "Everyone should own a little jade box." - Harry Nilsson Last edited by jadebox; 8th June 2012 at 08:34 AM. Reason: Never mind ...

13th October 2012, 01:51 PM	#44
666 Whingeing Pom Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Slightly to the east of Kernow. Posts: 1,329	Originally Posted by jadebox [deleted] I knew you were going to do that.
	__________________

15th October 2012, 06:27 AM	#45
LarianLeQuella Elf Wino Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: 3rd Rock from the Sun Posts: 1,995	Originally Posted by Johnny Brant (PS how do i get an avatar, i want to display my famous "hooded monk" avatar that's renowned throughout internetland) So famous that I have no idea what you are talking about... Anyone else know about this renowned hooded monk?
	__________________ My crappy blog that no one should be forced to read. Ever... But I like traffic and comments, so have at it if you please. Larian LeQuella Armyn ab Treanid

24th October 2012, 08:55 AM	#46
Musibrique Scholar Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 52	Originally Posted by Johnny Brant Is telepathy magic or simply an undeveloped ability that we all have? The problem with this question is that magic is a very subjective term. Magic is very ambiguous and what we define as magic is nothing but our perception of the universe. For example, if the technologies we have today magically existed in the 17 or 18 century, we would think that those technologies work by magic because we think it is impossible for such thing to happen. However, this is nothing but our ignorance. Our modern day knowledge tells us that these technologies don't work by magic, but via electromagnetic fields, etc. To answer your question, I would have to say that maybe somewhere in the future telepathy may be considered normal (If it exists)
Musibrique Scholar Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 52

25th October 2012, 10:54 PM	#47
davefoc Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: orange country, california Posts: 7,266	Originally Posted by Musibrique The problem with this question is that magic is a very subjective term. Magic is very ambiguous and what we define as magic is nothing but our perception of the universe. For example, if the technologies we have today magically existed in the 17 or 18 century, we would think that those technologies work by magic because we think it is impossible for such thing to happen. However, this is nothing but our ignorance. Our modern day knowledge tells us that these technologies don't work by magic, but via electromagnetic fields, etc. To answer your question, I would have to say that maybe somewhere in the future telepathy may be considered normal (If it exists) I'm in the seriously doubting it category, but technologically assisted telepathy seems like a remote possibility. PET scans that can determine which part of the brain are firing could even now be used to implement a simple form of telepathy. Guy A does something that activates area 1 of his brain. That information is transferred to Guy B. Guy B might be said to have received a message telepathically from Guy A and this might be expanded further. Show Guy A a picture of a naked woman, transmit information about which sections of Guy A's brain are active and Guy B might be able to deduce what Guy A is looking at.
	__________________ The way of truth is along the path of intellectual sincerity. -- Henry S. Pritchett Perfection is the enemy of good enough -- Russian proverb

26th October 2012, 08:59 AM	#48
Musibrique Scholar Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 52	Originally Posted by davefoc I'm in the seriously doubting it category, but technologically assisted telepathy seems like a remote possibility. PET scans that can determine which part of the brain are firing could even now be used to implement a simple form of telepathy. Guy A does something that activates area 1 of his brain. That information is transferred to Guy B. Guy B might be said to have received a message telepathically from Guy A and this might be expanded further. Show Guy A a picture of a naked woman, transmit information about which sections of Guy A's brain are active and Guy B might be able to deduce what Guy A is looking at. Interesting Do you know any studies regarding about this? I would much appreciate it.
Musibrique Scholar Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 52

30th October 2012, 08:21 AM	#49
LarianLeQuella Elf Wino Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: 3rd Rock from the Sun Posts: 1,995	Originally Posted by Musibrique Do you know any studies regarding about this? I would much appreciate it. You mean using something like an fMRI to transmit information from one individual to another? I am not aware of anything like that (and keep in mind, these sort of things would still be limited by technology and physics, so the speed of that transfer would still be limited by the speed of light between points). However, here are some links to our first few baby steps in at least electronically recording information in the brain. http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2011/09/22/brain-movies/ http://gizmodo.com/5922208/scientist...ith-your-brain http://www.technologyreview.com/news...unctional-mri/ Not that we are carrying fMRI machines in our pockets or attached to our ballcaps...
	__________________ My crappy blog that no one should be forced to read. Ever... But I like traffic and comments, so have at it if you please. Larian LeQuella Armyn ab Treanid

30th October 2012, 08:39 AM	#50
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by Johnny Brant Is telepathy magic or simply an undeveloped ability that we all have? Before suggesting a mechanism, first demonstrate the phenomenon even exists.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

24th November 2012, 09:27 PM	#51
Elind Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 6,622	Originally Posted by Johnny Brant Does science know that telepathy doesn't exist? Does science know that fairies don't exist?

25th November 2012, 07:07 PM	#52
mike3 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,948	Originally Posted by fuelair We are discussing them - you are just not happy with how. You want a discussion that must assume telepathy is real. There is ZERO evidence for it being real, so discussion is limited to that point. We do not randomly discuss , for example, "what would it be like if ghosts were all around us and we could see them faintly!" because that does not lead to any intelligent thinking or bring up any new knowledge to any of us. It is more the type of question, as is the OP, that an aspiring Science Fiction author without much knowledge or skill might throw out fishing for free story ideas (which would be worth roughtly their cost). And again, if you read some of the threads in science, you would hopefully see many good - and some bad- examples. So how do you go about gaining the necessary knowledge and skill to ask questions that lead to "intelligent thinking and new knowledge"?
mike3 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,948	__________________ “Ego is subversive and devolutionary, truly destructive and terrible; ego is the generator of privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Ego is the fire that burns within the pit of hell, devouring and cosuming everything that enters and leaving utterly nothing behind. Ego is horrible, cruel, and restraining, the darkness of the world, and the doom and bane of man.” – a reaction to that famous Bertrand Russell quote.

25th November 2012, 07:08 PM	#53
mike3 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,948	Originally Posted by fuelair You are not going to like this, but: we do not like to say that science knows things. Scientists tend to, but.... AND science does not say "x does not exist", it says "no evidence of any kind for the existence of X has been found to exist". To non-scientists, these apparently seem to mean the same thing. They do not and scientists know the difference. With no offence, you need to learn that difference. But when it comes to actual practical matters, they're treated as the same. We don't go around acting like telepathy might exist just because we can't say "it doesn't exist" scientifically. In other words, when it comes to informing how we should act, "no evidence of any kind for the existence of X has been found to exist" and "x does not exist" might as well be the same thing.
mike3 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,948	__________________ “Ego is subversive and devolutionary, truly destructive and terrible; ego is the generator of privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Ego is the fire that burns within the pit of hell, devouring and cosuming everything that enters and leaving utterly nothing behind. Ego is horrible, cruel, and restraining, the darkness of the world, and the doom and bane of man.” – a reaction to that famous Bertrand Russell quote. Last edited by mike3; 25th November 2012 at 07:10 PM.

25th March 2013, 07:32 PM	#54
Elind Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 6,622	Originally Posted by Johnny Brant Is telepathy magic or simply an undeveloped ability that we all have? There is no magic and there is no telepathy, and I am told there are no unicorns either.

2nd April 2013, 03:16 PM	#55
Bill Thompson 75 Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,420	Originally Posted by Elind There is no magic and there is no telepathy, and I am told there are no unicorns either. Were you told verbally or did it seem to just pop into your mind?

3rd April 2013, 04:18 AM	#56
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,482	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson 75 Were you told verbally or did it seem to just pop into your mind? What's your guess?
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

6th April 2013, 07:33 AM	#57
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	My understanding of the etymology of "telepathy" is that it combines Greek roots meaning "distance" and "feeling" (often "suffering" in a medical context- hence pathology , I imagine.) Sympathy. Homoeop...well, maybe not. Now I recall suffering on a frosty night trying to find (by naked eye) the Andromeda Nebula - and feeling rather pleased when I finally succeeded. So yes, in the interstellar (even intergalactic) context, telepathy does exist. Shame it only works one way, but we have an actual universe, with actual galaxies. And it's all free. Let's not be greedy.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

6th April 2013, 04:04 PM	#58
Elind Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 6,622	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson 75 Doesn't the faster-than-the-speed-of-light barrier only apply to objects with mass? Given the following from Space.com: "Dark energy is the name given to an unexplained force that is drawing galaxies away from each other, against the pull of gravity, at an accelerated pace. Dark energy is a bit like anti-gravity. Where gravity pulls things together at the more local level, dark energy tugs them apart on the grander scale. Its existence isn't proven, but dark energy is many scientists' best guess to explain the confusing observation that the universe's expansion is speeding up. Experts still don't know what's driving this force, but the quest to learn more about dark energy is one of cosmologists' top priorities." What is the difference between dark energy and telepathic energy? Silly question, given that you don't know the answer to the first part, and have had ample evidence of the non existence of the second. What is the difference between talking squid and unicornes? Should I expect that you don't bother to answer in this thread as in previous ones?

6th April 2013, 04:05 PM	#59
Elind Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 6,622	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson 75 Were you told verbally or did it seem to just pop into your mind? Do you think you are being clever?

11th April 2013, 11:22 AM	#60
Bill Thompson 75 Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,420	Originally Posted by Elind Do you think you are being clever? I will share credit with the one (to remain anonymous) who sent the clever thought to me.