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bit_pattern · 2nd July 2012, 02:15 AM

An interesting article that I thought would interest a few people, certainly anyone who has read Diamond's 'Guns, Germs and Steel'

Quote:

Might the destiny of nations be controlled by the underlying shape of their geography?

This is the subject of a recent study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The authors – political scientists David Laitin, Joachim Moortgat and Amanda Robinson – calculated the area, size and longitude-to-latitude ratio of every country on Earth.

They then plotted results against the number of indigenous languages spoken. Their aim was to see whether the size and orientation of a country could explain their levels of cultural diversity.

The Don · 2nd July 2012, 04:52 AM

Unfortunately I do not have access to that site - it requires a subscription however.....

I am worried when there are studies like this because they don't make predictions, merely try to find similarities between already successful countries. It's a bit like drawing the target once you've already shot at the side of the barn.

bit_pattern · 3rd July 2012, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Unfortunately I do not have access to that site - it requires a subscription however.....

I am worried when there are studies like this because they don't make predictions, merely try to find similarities between already successful countries. It's a bit like drawing the target once you've already shot at the side of the barn.

Oh, my bad. I forgot the link to the article that quote in the OP comes from

http://theconversation.edu.au/does-t...r-destiny-7732

It's a discussion about the paper cited in the quote.

theprestige · 3rd July 2012, 09:42 AM

Wouldn't the size and orientation of a country correlate more closely with geopolitical trends?

It's not like a bunch of random political boundaries were drawn by space aliens, who then populated each of them with a random assortment of people, and waited to see which ones developed what levels of "cultural diversity".

I'd expect that Yemen's historical cultural diversity influenced its size and orientation, not the other way around.

I'd expect that coastlines, mountain ranges, river valleys, and resource concentrations have had a far greater impact on cultural diversity in the Balkans, than where some despot drew the lines of "Yugoslavia" in the 1900s.

Humes fork · 3rd July 2012, 01:57 PM

To an extent, yes.

Icelandic is much closer to Old Norse than is Swedish, Norwegian or Danish. Iceland is also much more culturally conservative. Go figure.

It is even more true of cities. The reason that Constantinople (now Istanbul) became such a rich city is because it was at the crossroads of continents and trade.

The Nile might explain why Egypt rather than say Libya created a flourishing ancient culture that with its ups and downs lasted for millennia.

2nd July 2012, 02:15 AM	#1
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	Does the shape of countries shape their destiny? An interesting article that I thought would interest a few people, certainly anyone who has read Diamond's 'Guns, Germs and Steel' Quote: Might the destiny of nations be controlled by the underlying shape of their geography? This is the subject of a recent study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The authors – political scientists David Laitin, Joachim Moortgat and Amanda Robinson – calculated the area, size and longitude-to-latitude ratio of every country on Earth. They then plotted results against the number of indigenous languages spoken. Their aim was to see whether the size and orientation of a country could explain their levels of cultural diversity.
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	__________________ "You are the epitome of the 'pigeon playing chess'. No matter how good I am at chess, you are just going to knock the pieces over, **** on the board and strut around like you've won something" "In this political climate, all of science is vulnerable to ideological attack when reality disagrees with political beliefs."

3rd July 2012, 03:01 AM	#3
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	Originally Posted by The Don Unfortunately I do not have access to that site - it requires a subscription however..... I am worried when there are studies like this because they don't make predictions, merely try to find similarities between already successful countries. It's a bit like drawing the target once you've already shot at the side of the barn. Oh, my bad. I forgot the link to the article that quote in the OP comes from http://theconversation.edu.au/does-t...r-destiny-7732 It's a discussion about the paper cited in the quote.
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	__________________ "You are the epitome of the 'pigeon playing chess'. No matter how good I am at chess, you are just going to knock the pieces over, **** on the board and strut around like you've won something" "In this political climate, all of science is vulnerable to ideological attack when reality disagrees with political beliefs."

3rd July 2012, 09:42 AM	#4
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,905	Wouldn't the size and orientation of a country correlate more closely with geopolitical trends? It's not like a bunch of random political boundaries were drawn by space aliens, who then populated each of them with a random assortment of people, and waited to see which ones developed what levels of "cultural diversity". I'd expect that Yemen's historical cultural diversity influenced its size and orientation, not the other way around. I'd expect that coastlines, mountain ranges, river valleys, and resource concentrations have had a far greater impact on cultural diversity in the Balkans, than where some despot drew the lines of "Yugoslavia" in the 1900s.
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,905

3rd July 2012, 01:57 PM	#5
Humes fork Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,479	To an extent, yes. Icelandic is much closer to Old Norse than is Swedish, Norwegian or Danish. Iceland is also much more culturally conservative. Go figure. It is even more true of cities. The reason that Constantinople (now Istanbul) became such a rich city is because it was at the crossroads of continents and trade. The Nile might explain why Egypt rather than say Libya created a flourishing ancient culture that with its ups and downs lasted for millennia.
	__________________ "Faith is the surrender of the mind; it’s the surrender of reason, it’s the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other mammals. It’s our need to believe, and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. Of all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated." - Christopher Hitchens

2nd July 2012, 04:52 AM	#2
The Don Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cymru Posts: 8,579	Unfortunately I do not have access to that site - it requires a subscription however..... I am worried when there are studies like this because they don't make predictions, merely try to find similarities between already successful countries. It's a bit like drawing the target once you've already shot at the side of the barn.