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Safe-Keeper · 30th June 2012, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by DragonLady

I keep thinking that as I get older and less attractive to the younger set that I don't have to worry much about my personal security.

Apparently not.

Rapists don't discriminate, unfortunately. Contrary to popular belief, the rule of thumb is that your age and clothing style don't matter squat.

Originally Posted by Halfcentaur

Yeah, rape can be so awesome when people really deserve their raping! Maybe we should let people line up and take turns, maybe you'd like to try your hand at it? After all, it's a fine thing when deserved.

Seconded. As much as I hate SA, comments like this are just tastelesss, IMO.

Quote:

But where exactly does hurting folks who can't fight back come into the equation?

I suppose they just enjoy hurting people. That seems to be a recurring theme with rapists, as far as I know. It's not about the sex as much as it is about feeling you have power over another human being.

No, I don't get them either. I felt dirty just writing that

.

Caper · 30th June 2012, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by DC

no, Americans are not a race. there it is where you fail.

Where did I say Americans are a race?

DC · 1st July 2012, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Caper

Where did I say Americans are a race?

so you admit that your example was a fail?

Caper · 1st July 2012, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by DC

so you admit that your example was a fail?

No it wasn't a fail at all. What was a fail about it? People make judgements based on a persons race. That's fine.

If your black living in the south in 1950 and pickup truck with 5 whites pull up beside you as you are walking home on a dirt road near dusk.... I don't think it's a wise move to sit there and think.... ."hmmmmm maybe they're Eastern European whites"....... Or.... "hmmmmm maybe these guys are college educated, liberal Northern whites here helping out the civil rights cause"....... You don't think about those things. They could be a group of Harvard educated whites, traveling down south to help out in civil rights causes... but those odds are low. You make quick and dirty judgements to save your own skin.

Likewise... If you're walking in the woods and you encounter a bear... Your first thought shouldn't be..... "hey, maybe that's one of those friendly trained circus bears".... it could be a friendly trained circus bear.... but it's better to make quick judgements based on the information you have.

And that is my point. There is nothing wrong, in a world where you often must make quick and dirty judgment calls, to use race as a factor in those decisions.

So no... it in no way was a fail.

DC · 1st July 2012, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by Caper

No it wasn't a fail at all. What was a fail about it? People make judgements based on a persons race. That's fine.

If your black living in the south in 1950 and pickup truck with 5 whites pull up beside you as you are walking home on a dirt road near dusk.... I don't think it's a wise move to sit there and think.... ."hmmmmm maybe they're Eastern European whites"....... Or.... "hmmmmm maybe these guys are college educated, liberal Northern whites here helping out the civil rights cause"....... You don't think about those things. They could be a group of Harvard educated whites, traveling down south to help out in civil rights causes... but those odds are low. You make quick and dirty judgements to save your own skin.

Likewise... If you're walking in the woods and you encounter a bear... Your first thought shouldn't be..... "hey, maybe that's one of those friendly trained circus bears".... it could be a friendly trained circus bear.... but it's better to make quick judgements based on the information you have.

And that is my point. There is nothing wrong, in a world where you often must make quick and dirty judgment calls, to use race as a factor in those decisions.

So no... it in no way was a fail.

all decision based on race are generalisations , just asuming one is a criminal because of his skincolor is racist. You have a point back in the time where slavery and discrimination was the norm. But it does not apply today anymore. when you today have a problem with a race, you are a racist.

the only thing you can conclude from race is well, race. it gives you no further information.

and you example of Japanese during WWII was a fail, some white arrested them, other whites were their allies.

UNLoVedRebel · 1st July 2012, 01:14 AM

Aanthnaur, what if I said, "I hate swiss people, but I love Italians." Would that be racist?

DC · 1st July 2012, 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel

Aanthnaur, what if I said, "I hate swiss people, but I love Italians." Would that be racist?

nobody hates swiss people.

learner · 1st July 2012, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel

Aanthnaur, what if I said, "I hate swiss people, but I love Italians." Would that be racist?

That would be nationalistic.

Caper · 1st July 2012, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by DC

But it does not apply today anymore. when you today have a problem with a race, you are a racist.

Really? What year was it when we were suddenly racists for making decisions based on race?

Is a black person today a racist because he is driving the speed limit and perfectly fine when all of a sudden he is pulled over by a white cop and his first thought is I'm being pulled over because I'm black and the officer is white... thus assuming the white cop is a racist? Is the black guy a racist in that scenario? Maybe his taillight is out.... maybe his plates are expired, but yet his first thought maybe to attribute negative characteristics to that officer solely based on his race. Is he a racist?

Is a black father a racist if he tells his son to be careful and not look suspicious when walking in a rich white neighborhood? For his owns sons safety. Attributing negative characteristics on a whole neighborhood solely based on race. Is that father a racist?

I don't think in either example they are. Their thought process is perfectly acceptable.

The other option is that we say... yeah it is racist.... racism becomes acceptable... so I don't like that option.

DC · 1st July 2012, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by Caper

Really? What year was it when we were suddenly racists for making decisions based on race?

Is a black person today a racist because he is driving the speed limit and perfectly fine when all of a sudden he is pulled over by a white cop and his first thought is I'm being pulled over because I'm black and the officer is white... thus assuming the white cop is a racist? Is the black guy a racist in that scenario? Maybe his taillight is out.... maybe his plates are expired, but yet his first thought maybe to attribute negative characteristics to that officer solely based on his race. Is he a racist?

Is a black father a racist if he tells his son to be careful and not look suspicious when walking in a rich white neighborhood? For his owns sons safety. Attributing negative characteristics on a whole neighborhood solely based on race. Is that father a racist?

I don't think in either example they are. Their thought process is perfectly acceptable.

The other option is that we say... yeah it is racist.... racism becomes acceptable... so I don't like that option.

as i said, whenever you have a problem with a race, you are a racist.
believing the cop does this or that just because of his skin color is racist.
a cop that blieves a person must be hiding something just because of the skin color is racist.

ETA: one example of a problem with a race came to mind that would not make you a racist. When your problem is that you can't see dark skinned people at night very well.

Caper · 1st July 2012, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by DC

as i said, whenever you have a problem with a race, you are a racist.
believing the cop does this or that just because of his skin color is racist.
a cop that blieves a person must be hiding something just because of the skin color is racist.

Ok... then we are all racists. That's fine.. glad we got that settled then.

DC · 1st July 2012, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Caper

Ok... then we are all racists. That's fine.. glad we got that settled then.

are you saying you judge people based on their race? why do you asume everyone does that? i don't, they only thing skin color or race tells me is skin color or race.

Caper · 1st July 2012, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by DC

are you saying you judge people based on their race? why do you asume everyone does that? i don't, they only thing skin color or race tells me is skin color or race.

I think you are lying to yourself.

I make judgements on people based on the color of their skin all the time. It would be stupid to make that your only criteria to make judgements. But yes, all the time I make judgements about people based on their race.

DC · 1st July 2012, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Caper

I think you are lying to yourself.

I make judgements on people based on the color of their skin all the time. It would be stupid to make that your only criteria to make judgements. But yes, all the time I make judgements about people based on their race.

what kind of judgements? got some examples? race is such a useless concept, i see no use of it in my life.

Caper · 1st July 2012, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by DC

what kind of judgements? got some examples? race is such a useless concept, i see no use of it in my life.

You are bringing up a couple of different points here. Whether you or I like it or not. In the world out there "race" is a very real thing. We can point out how imperfect it is all day (putting the Mbuti pigmy tribe and Jamaican people in one category is not very useful).

As for examples... how about.

without knowing at all a single name in the Olympic 100m dash this coming Olympics, I can tell you the "race" of the person who will win it.

or

If I were speaking casually to black people, I would make judgements as to certain words I had to be careful using as to not offend. I wouldn't affectionately describe a black child as a little monkey. I have that option for describing a white child. That's fine. Racist whites have used monkey as a derogatory term for blacks. It wasn't right. I'm not about to use vocabulary to potentially offend someone. Even though if I did, I would be using it as an affectionate term. And any black person offended would be assigning me negative characteristics based solely on my race. I understand that, it does not bother me and know how to watch my vocabulary around people I could potentially offend.

I could go on.

DC · 1st July 2012, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Caper

You are bringing up a couple of different points here. Whether you or I like it or not. In the world out there "race" is a very real thing. We can point out how imperfect it is all day (putting the Mbuti pigmy tribe and Jamaican people in one category is not very useful).

As for examples... how about.

without knowing at all a single name in the Olympic 100m dash this coming Olympics, I can tell you the "race" of the person who will win it.

or

If I were speaking casually to black people, I would make judgements as to certain words I had to be careful using as to not offend. I wouldn't affectionately describe a black child as a little monkey. I have that option for describing a white child. That's fine. Racist whites have used monkey as a derogatory term for blacks. It wasn't right. I'm not about to use vocabulary to potentially offend someone. Even though if I did, I would be using it as an affectionate term. And any black person offended would be assigning me negative characteristics based solely on my race. I understand that, it does not bother me and know how to watch my vocabulary around people I could potentially offend.

I could go on.

Race is surely not very real, its a social construct mostly based on skin color. it surely is not a scinetific concept, its a social construct.

and as i said in the begining, whenever you have a problem with a race, you are a racist.
race is such a broad therm , the only thing a race has in commong in that race, is that race, wich is mostly skin color. it cannot give you any usefull information. it doesn't say anything about inteligence, education, criminality etc etc.

Caper · 2nd July 2012, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by DC

Race is surely not very real, its a social construct mostly based on skin color. it surely is not a scinetific concept, its a social construct.

and as i said in the begining, whenever you have a problem with a race, you are a racist.
race is such a broad therm , the only thing a race has in commong in that race, is that race, wich is mostly skin color. it cannot give you any usefull information. it doesn't say anything about inteligence, education, criminality etc etc.

Well... then it's all good then. Since race isn't real then being a racist can't be real either right?

DC · 2nd July 2012, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by Caper

Well... then it's all good then. Since race isn't real then being a racist can't be real either right?

race is not a scientific construct, thats what i meant with not real.
its not even properly defined what races there are, who belongs to wich race etc etc. its a social construct mainly based on skin color and is not helpfull at anything, its only use is for prejudice.

Caper · 2nd July 2012, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by DC

race is not a scientific construct, thats what i meant with not real.
its not even properly defined what races there are, who belongs to wich race etc etc.

You're right. But still, because society has some loose definition... it exists.

Originally Posted by DC

its a social construct mainly based on skin color and is not helpfull at anything, its only use is for prejudice..

What's wrong with prejudice?

DC · 2nd July 2012, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by Caper

You're right. But still, because society has some loose definition... it exists.

What's wrong with prejudice?

what is not wrong with it? prejudice based on a loosely defined inacurate construct. of what use is that pls?

Caper · 2nd July 2012, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by DC

what is not wrong with it? prejudice based on a loosely defined inacurate construct. of what use is that pls?

Well if I look up how it is defined I see it as....

Quote:

The word prejudice (or foredeeming) is most often used to refer to preconceived judgments toward people or a person because of gender, social class, age, disability, religion, sexuality, race/ethnicity, nationality or other personal characteristics.

So what's wrong with that? If you are in a medical emergency are you going to move towards, the guy dressed as a doctor..... or the guy with the McDonald's uniform? My guess is that you have preconceived judgments of both and you will move towards the guy dressed as a doctor.

If your car breaks down in the middle of the street and you need to get it off ASAP.... you see 2 people on the sidewalk... one is what appears to be a 90 year old lady.... the other appears to be a 30 yr old body builder. Who are you going to ask for help? Are you going to make no judgments against either person? Will you assume the 90 year old lady is just as capable as the 30 year old body builder? Or will you be prejudice, like most everyone and make judgments about both based on age, gender and physical appearance? I know what I would do..... I'm prejudice.

DC · 2nd July 2012, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by Caper

Well if I look up how it is defined I see it as....

So what's wrong with that? If you are in a medical emergency are you going to move towards, the guy dressed as a doctor..... or the guy with the McDonald's uniform? My guess is that you have preconceived judgments of both and you will move towards the guy dressed as a doctor.

If your car breaks down in the middle of the street and you need to get it off ASAP.... you see 2 people on the sidewalk... one is what appears to be a 90 year old lady.... the other appears to be a 30 yr old body builder. Who are you going to ask for help? Are you going to make no judgments against either person? Will you assume the 90 year old lady is just as capable as the 30 year old body builder? Or will you be prejudice, like most everyone and make judgments about both based on age, gender and physical appearance? I know what I would do..... I'm prejudice.

and where comes race in the game?

Caper · 2nd July 2012, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by DC

and where comes race in the game?

Did I mention i can guess the race of the 100m Olympic champion without knowing the name of anyone involved?

DC · 2nd July 2012, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by Caper

Did I mention i can guess the race of the 100m Olympic champion without knowing the name of anyone involved?

Spindrift · 2nd July 2012, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by Caper

Did I mention i can guess the race of the 100m Olympic champion without knowing the name of anyone involved?

In swimming or athletics?

DC · 2nd July 2012, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by Caper

Did I mention i can guess the race of the 100m Olympic champion without knowing the name of anyone involved?

but to get back where it al started, name me one problem with a race that is not racist.

aggle-rithm · 2nd July 2012, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by sadhatter

Never understood the premise of thugs attacking the weak. Seriously.

It seems a big part of thug culture ( whether we are talking about gangstas or skinheads.) is being tough. That i get, no one wants to be a pansy. So i also get the constant fights with other gangs, the cops, etc. And i can even get the crime, one doesn't care about their effect on others, nothing i would do, but in the context of what they do, i get it.

But where exactly does hurting folks who can't fight back come into the equation? From a purely pragmatic standpoint, it does not show that one has any degree of skill in causing harm, your picking the easiest target, and doing something horrible. Maybe it can show a degree of ingenuity if one is doing it in some form of inventive manner, but even then, a knocked out opponent of equal or greater stature to ones self can have all the same things done, and you had to work to get there.

It just boggles my mind, i can put aside all my moral qualms about what they do, and i still can't wrap my head around physically hurting those who are very weak.

This sort of thing is very depressing, but on reflection I realized there is a mechanism in place to protect society from people like this. There have always been and will always be young, angry people with poor impulse control who will prey on the weak...but on the bright side, these people quickly Darwin themselves out of society. Think about it--if their goal is robbery, they are much better off keeping a low profile, maybe just tying the woman up and treating her relatively kindly, than they are beating her up and raping her. A simple robbery will just make them another in a long list of offenders who will never be caught, while a violent assault such as this will GUARANTEE that the full resources of law enforcement will be brought to bear to ensure that they never hurt anyone again.

Smart criminals avoid hurting people as much as possible. Dumb ones are quickly removed from society.

Caper · 2nd July 2012, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by DC

but to get back where it al started, name me one problem with a race that is not racist.

The white race has a problem, especially fair skinned white people, with certian skin cancers that people with black skin don't have.

If you want to consider North American native tribes a race then they have problems greater problems with alcohol then other "races". This knowledge can be useful when deciding alcohol policies on Native reserves.

Caper · 2nd July 2012, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Spindrift

In swimming or athletics?

I can answer both.

fuelair · 2nd July 2012, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel

Aanthnaur, what if I said, "I hate swiss people, but I love Italians." Would that be racist?

Can't be racist. Race is Ethnology/Anthropology designated artificial division of human beings - not genetically based, simply appearance based - though many specifics of appearance in the overall identification(s). Given more recent study/findings (Vitamin D/bilirubin/specifc overall mitochondrial DNA and specfic overall(but later)DNA) we are all just humans. Race is a quaint, fading concept except among the ignorant and insecure and the slime molds that use them - and that is being nasty to real slime molds.

30th June 2012, 06:45 PM	#41
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,176	Originally Posted by DragonLady I keep thinking that as I get older and less attractive to the younger set that I don't have to worry much about my personal security. Apparently not. Rapists don't discriminate, unfortunately. Contrary to popular belief, the rule of thumb is that your age and clothing style don't matter squat. Originally Posted by Halfcentaur Yeah, rape can be so awesome when people really deserve their raping! Maybe we should let people line up and take turns, maybe you'd like to try your hand at it? After all, it's a fine thing when deserved. Seconded. As much as I hate SA, comments like this are just tastelesss, IMO. Quote: But where exactly does hurting folks who can't fight back come into the equation? I suppose they just enjoy hurting people. That seems to be a recurring theme with rapists, as far as I know. It's not about the sex as much as it is about feeling you have power over another human being. No, I don't get them either. I felt dirty just writing that.

30th June 2012, 11:35 PM	#42
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023	Originally Posted by DC no, Americans are not a race. there it is where you fail. Where did I say Americans are a race?
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023

1st July 2012, 12:07 AM	#43
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,708	Originally Posted by Caper Where did I say Americans are a race? so you admit that your example was a fail?
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

1st July 2012, 12:39 AM	#44
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023	Originally Posted by DC so you admit that your example was a fail? No it wasn't a fail at all. What was a fail about it? People make judgements based on a persons race. That's fine. If your black living in the south in 1950 and pickup truck with 5 whites pull up beside you as you are walking home on a dirt road near dusk.... I don't think it's a wise move to sit there and think.... ."hmmmmm maybe they're Eastern European whites"....... Or.... "hmmmmm maybe these guys are college educated, liberal Northern whites here helping out the civil rights cause"....... You don't think about those things. They could be a group of Harvard educated whites, traveling down south to help out in civil rights causes... but those odds are low. You make quick and dirty judgements to save your own skin. Likewise... If you're walking in the woods and you encounter a bear... Your first thought shouldn't be..... "hey, maybe that's one of those friendly trained circus bears".... it could be a friendly trained circus bear.... but it's better to make quick judgements based on the information you have. And that is my point. There is nothing wrong, in a world where you often must make quick and dirty judgment calls, to use race as a factor in those decisions. So no... it in no way was a fail.
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023

1st July 2012, 01:01 AM	#45
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,708	Originally Posted by Caper No it wasn't a fail at all. What was a fail about it? People make judgements based on a persons race. That's fine. If your black living in the south in 1950 and pickup truck with 5 whites pull up beside you as you are walking home on a dirt road near dusk.... I don't think it's a wise move to sit there and think.... ."hmmmmm maybe they're Eastern European whites"....... Or.... "hmmmmm maybe these guys are college educated, liberal Northern whites here helping out the civil rights cause"....... You don't think about those things. They could be a group of Harvard educated whites, traveling down south to help out in civil rights causes... but those odds are low. You make quick and dirty judgements to save your own skin. Likewise... If you're walking in the woods and you encounter a bear... Your first thought shouldn't be..... "hey, maybe that's one of those friendly trained circus bears".... it could be a friendly trained circus bear.... but it's better to make quick judgements based on the information you have. And that is my point. There is nothing wrong, in a world where you often must make quick and dirty judgment calls, to use race as a factor in those decisions. So no... it in no way was a fail. all decision based on race are generalisations , just asuming one is a criminal because of his skincolor is racist. You have a point back in the time where slavery and discrimination was the norm. But it does not apply today anymore. when you today have a problem with a race, you are a racist. the only thing you can conclude from race is well, race. it gives you no further information. and you example of Japanese during WWII was a fail, some white arrested them, other whites were their allies.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it Last edited by DC; 1st July 2012 at 01:02 AM.

1st July 2012, 01:14 AM	#46
UNLoVedRebel Hard Knocks Doctorate Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: School of Hard Knocks Posts: 5,515	Aanthnaur, what if I said, "I hate swiss people, but I love Italians." Would that be racist?
	__________________ "All the Officialiers here typically have rancid alien avatars or else some kind of violent military-type avatar. Once again affirming my contention that 9/11 Officialiers are the most violent, murderous, group of people in the United States. Both statistically confirmed, but also anecdotally affirmed in almost every case of active pro-Officialers." - FloydGoethe

1st July 2012, 01:28 AM	#47
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,708	Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel Aanthnaur, what if I said, "I hate swiss people, but I love Italians." Would that be racist? nobody hates swiss people.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

1st July 2012, 01:44 AM	#48
learner Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2008 Location: dorset england Posts: 1,593	Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel Aanthnaur, what if I said, "I hate swiss people, but I love Italians." Would that be racist? That would be nationalistic.
	__________________ "I would give my right arm to be ambidextrous" - My Mate Dave " How do you expect me to use my initiative if you wont tell me what to do?" - Dave again

1st July 2012, 02:06 AM	#49
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023	Originally Posted by DC But it does not apply today anymore. when you today have a problem with a race, you are a racist. Really? What year was it when we were suddenly racists for making decisions based on race? Is a black person today a racist because he is driving the speed limit and perfectly fine when all of a sudden he is pulled over by a white cop and his first thought is I'm being pulled over because I'm black and the officer is white... thus assuming the white cop is a racist? Is the black guy a racist in that scenario? Maybe his taillight is out.... maybe his plates are expired, but yet his first thought maybe to attribute negative characteristics to that officer solely based on his race. Is he a racist? Is a black father a racist if he tells his son to be careful and not look suspicious when walking in a rich white neighborhood? For his owns sons safety. Attributing negative characteristics on a whole neighborhood solely based on race. Is that father a racist? I don't think in either example they are. Their thought process is perfectly acceptable. The other option is that we say... yeah it is racist.... racism becomes acceptable... so I don't like that option.
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023

1st July 2012, 05:58 AM	#50
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,708	Originally Posted by Caper Really? What year was it when we were suddenly racists for making decisions based on race? Is a black person today a racist because he is driving the speed limit and perfectly fine when all of a sudden he is pulled over by a white cop and his first thought is I'm being pulled over because I'm black and the officer is white... thus assuming the white cop is a racist? Is the black guy a racist in that scenario? Maybe his taillight is out.... maybe his plates are expired, but yet his first thought maybe to attribute negative characteristics to that officer solely based on his race. Is he a racist? Is a black father a racist if he tells his son to be careful and not look suspicious when walking in a rich white neighborhood? For his owns sons safety. Attributing negative characteristics on a whole neighborhood solely based on race. Is that father a racist? I don't think in either example they are. Their thought process is perfectly acceptable. The other option is that we say... yeah it is racist.... racism becomes acceptable... so I don't like that option. as i said, whenever you have a problem with a race, you are a racist. believing the cop does this or that just because of his skin color is racist. a cop that blieves a person must be hiding something just because of the skin color is racist. ETA: one example of a problem with a race came to mind that would not make you a racist. When your problem is that you can't see dark skinned people at night very well.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it Last edited by DC; 1st July 2012 at 06:21 AM.

1st July 2012, 11:04 AM	#51
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023	Originally Posted by DC as i said, whenever you have a problem with a race, you are a racist. believing the cop does this or that just because of his skin color is racist. a cop that blieves a person must be hiding something just because of the skin color is racist. Ok... then we are all racists. That's fine.. glad we got that settled then.
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023

1st July 2012, 11:27 AM	#52
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,708	Originally Posted by Caper Ok... then we are all racists. That's fine.. glad we got that settled then. are you saying you judge people based on their race? why do you asume everyone does that? i don't, they only thing skin color or race tells me is skin color or race.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

1st July 2012, 04:48 PM	#53
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023	Originally Posted by DC are you saying you judge people based on their race? why do you asume everyone does that? i don't, they only thing skin color or race tells me is skin color or race. I think you are lying to yourself. I make judgements on people based on the color of their skin all the time. It would be stupid to make that your only criteria to make judgements. But yes, all the time I make judgements about people based on their race.
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023

1st July 2012, 05:19 PM	#54
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,708	Originally Posted by Caper I think you are lying to yourself. I make judgements on people based on the color of their skin all the time. It would be stupid to make that your only criteria to make judgements. But yes, all the time I make judgements about people based on their race. what kind of judgements? got some examples? race is such a useless concept, i see no use of it in my life.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

1st July 2012, 07:06 PM	#55
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023	Originally Posted by DC what kind of judgements? got some examples? race is such a useless concept, i see no use of it in my life. You are bringing up a couple of different points here. Whether you or I like it or not. In the world out there "race" is a very real thing. We can point out how imperfect it is all day (putting the Mbuti pigmy tribe and Jamaican people in one category is not very useful). As for examples... how about. without knowing at all a single name in the Olympic 100m dash this coming Olympics, I can tell you the "race" of the person who will win it. or If I were speaking casually to black people, I would make judgements as to certain words I had to be careful using as to not offend. I wouldn't affectionately describe a black child as a little monkey. I have that option for describing a white child. That's fine. Racist whites have used monkey as a derogatory term for blacks. It wasn't right. I'm not about to use vocabulary to potentially offend someone. Even though if I did, I would be using it as an affectionate term. And any black person offended would be assigning me negative characteristics based solely on my race. I understand that, it does not bother me and know how to watch my vocabulary around people I could potentially offend. I could go on.
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1st July 2012, 11:56 PM	#56
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,708	Originally Posted by Caper You are bringing up a couple of different points here. Whether you or I like it or not. In the world out there "race" is a very real thing. We can point out how imperfect it is all day (putting the Mbuti pigmy tribe and Jamaican people in one category is not very useful). As for examples... how about. without knowing at all a single name in the Olympic 100m dash this coming Olympics, I can tell you the "race" of the person who will win it. or If I were speaking casually to black people, I would make judgements as to certain words I had to be careful using as to not offend. I wouldn't affectionately describe a black child as a little monkey. I have that option for describing a white child. That's fine. Racist whites have used monkey as a derogatory term for blacks. It wasn't right. I'm not about to use vocabulary to potentially offend someone. Even though if I did, I would be using it as an affectionate term. And any black person offended would be assigning me negative characteristics based solely on my race. I understand that, it does not bother me and know how to watch my vocabulary around people I could potentially offend. I could go on. Race is surely not very real, its a social construct mostly based on skin color. it surely is not a scinetific concept, its a social construct. and as i said in the begining, whenever you have a problem with a race, you are a racist. race is such a broad therm , the only thing a race has in commong in that race, is that race, wich is mostly skin color. it cannot give you any usefull information. it doesn't say anything about inteligence, education, criminality etc etc.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

2nd July 2012, 02:34 AM	#57
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023	Originally Posted by DC Race is surely not very real, its a social construct mostly based on skin color. it surely is not a scinetific concept, its a social construct. and as i said in the begining, whenever you have a problem with a race, you are a racist. race is such a broad therm , the only thing a race has in commong in that race, is that race, wich is mostly skin color. it cannot give you any usefull information. it doesn't say anything about inteligence, education, criminality etc etc. Well... then it's all good then. Since race isn't real then being a racist can't be real either right?
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2nd July 2012, 02:49 AM	#58
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,708	Originally Posted by Caper Well... then it's all good then. Since race isn't real then being a racist can't be real either right? race is not a scientific construct, thats what i meant with not real. its not even properly defined what races there are, who belongs to wich race etc etc. its a social construct mainly based on skin color and is not helpfull at anything, its only use is for prejudice.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

2nd July 2012, 04:23 AM	#59
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023	Originally Posted by DC race is not a scientific construct, thats what i meant with not real. its not even properly defined what races there are, who belongs to wich race etc etc. You're right. But still, because society has some loose definition... it exists. Originally Posted by DC its a social construct mainly based on skin color and is not helpfull at anything, its only use is for prejudice.. What's wrong with prejudice?
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2nd July 2012, 04:29 AM	#60
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,708	Originally Posted by Caper You're right. But still, because society has some loose definition... it exists. What's wrong with prejudice? what is not wrong with it? prejudice based on a loosely defined inacurate construct. of what use is that pls?
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

2nd July 2012, 04:52 AM	#61
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023	Originally Posted by DC what is not wrong with it? prejudice based on a loosely defined inacurate construct. of what use is that pls? Well if I look up how it is defined I see it as.... Quote: The word prejudice (or foredeeming) is most often used to refer to preconceived judgments toward people or a person because of gender, social class, age, disability, religion, sexuality, race/ethnicity, nationality or other personal characteristics. So what's wrong with that? If you are in a medical emergency are you going to move towards, the guy dressed as a doctor..... or the guy with the McDonald's uniform? My guess is that you have preconceived judgments of both and you will move towards the guy dressed as a doctor. If your car breaks down in the middle of the street and you need to get it off ASAP.... you see 2 people on the sidewalk... one is what appears to be a 90 year old lady.... the other appears to be a 30 yr old body builder. Who are you going to ask for help? Are you going to make no judgments against either person? Will you assume the 90 year old lady is just as capable as the 30 year old body builder? Or will you be prejudice, like most everyone and make judgments about both based on age, gender and physical appearance? I know what I would do..... I'm prejudice.
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2nd July 2012, 05:05 AM	#62
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,708	Originally Posted by Caper Well if I look up how it is defined I see it as.... So what's wrong with that? If you are in a medical emergency are you going to move towards, the guy dressed as a doctor..... or the guy with the McDonald's uniform? My guess is that you have preconceived judgments of both and you will move towards the guy dressed as a doctor. If your car breaks down in the middle of the street and you need to get it off ASAP.... you see 2 people on the sidewalk... one is what appears to be a 90 year old lady.... the other appears to be a 30 yr old body builder. Who are you going to ask for help? Are you going to make no judgments against either person? Will you assume the 90 year old lady is just as capable as the 30 year old body builder? Or will you be prejudice, like most everyone and make judgments about both based on age, gender and physical appearance? I know what I would do..... I'm prejudice. and where comes race in the game?
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

2nd July 2012, 05:43 AM	#63
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023	Originally Posted by DC and where comes race in the game? Did I mention i can guess the race of the 100m Olympic champion without knowing the name of anyone involved?
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2nd July 2012, 05:51 AM	#64
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,708	Originally Posted by Caper Did I mention i can guess the race of the 100m Olympic champion without knowing the name of anyone involved?
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

2nd July 2012, 05:52 AM	#65
Spindrift Enturbulator Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 8,656	Originally Posted by Caper Did I mention i can guess the race of the 100m Olympic champion without knowing the name of anyone involved? In swimming or athletics?
	__________________ I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.

2nd July 2012, 05:56 AM	#66
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,708	Originally Posted by Caper Did I mention i can guess the race of the 100m Olympic champion without knowing the name of anyone involved? but to get back where it al started, name me one problem with a race that is not racist.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

2nd July 2012, 05:57 AM	#67
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,297	Originally Posted by sadhatter Never understood the premise of thugs attacking the weak. Seriously. It seems a big part of thug culture ( whether we are talking about gangstas or skinheads.) is being tough. That i get, no one wants to be a pansy. So i also get the constant fights with other gangs, the cops, etc. And i can even get the crime, one doesn't care about their effect on others, nothing i would do, but in the context of what they do, i get it. But where exactly does hurting folks who can't fight back come into the equation? From a purely pragmatic standpoint, it does not show that one has any degree of skill in causing harm, your picking the easiest target, and doing something horrible. Maybe it can show a degree of ingenuity if one is doing it in some form of inventive manner, but even then, a knocked out opponent of equal or greater stature to ones self can have all the same things done, and you had to work to get there. It just boggles my mind, i can put aside all my moral qualms about what they do, and i still can't wrap my head around physically hurting those who are very weak. This sort of thing is very depressing, but on reflection I realized there is a mechanism in place to protect society from people like this. There have always been and will always be young, angry people with poor impulse control who will prey on the weak...but on the bright side, these people quickly Darwin themselves out of society. Think about it--if their goal is robbery, they are much better off keeping a low profile, maybe just tying the woman up and treating her relatively kindly, than they are beating her up and raping her. A simple robbery will just make them another in a long list of offenders who will never be caught, while a violent assault such as this will GUARANTEE that the full resources of law enforcement will be brought to bear to ensure that they never hurt anyone again. Smart criminals avoid hurting people as much as possible. Dumb ones are quickly removed from society.
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2nd July 2012, 03:25 PM	#68
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023	Originally Posted by DC but to get back where it al started, name me one problem with a race that is not racist. The white race has a problem, especially fair skinned white people, with certian skin cancers that people with black skin don't have. If you want to consider North American native tribes a race then they have problems greater problems with alcohol then other "races". This knowledge can be useful when deciding alcohol policies on Native reserves.
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023	Last edited by Caper; 2nd July 2012 at 03:30 PM.

2nd July 2012, 03:31 PM	#69
Caper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,023	Originally Posted by Spindrift In swimming or athletics? I can answer both.
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2nd July 2012, 09:47 PM	#70
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,307	Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel Aanthnaur, what if I said, "I hate swiss people, but I love Italians." Would that be racist? Can't be racist. Race is Ethnology/Anthropology designated artificial division of human beings - not genetically based, simply appearance based - though many specifics of appearance in the overall identification(s). Given more recent study/findings (Vitamin D/bilirubin/specifc overall mitochondrial DNA and specfic overall(but later)DNA) we are all just humans. Race is a quaint, fading concept except among the ignorant and insecure and the slime molds that use them - and that is being nasty to real slime molds.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,307	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!