JREF Homepage Swift Blog Events Calendar $1 Million Paranormal Challenge The Amaz!ng Meeting Useful Links Support Us
James Randi Educational Foundation JREF Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   JREF Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
Click Here To Donate

Notices


Welcome to the JREF Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.

Reply
Old 21st April 2013, 07:19 PM   #1001
bynmdsue
Graduate Poster
 
bynmdsue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,861
Is it starting to seem like people don't understand that there already are background checks in place for the majority of transactions?
bynmdsue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st April 2013, 07:23 PM   #1002
elbe
Illuminator
 
elbe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: near a man named leroy brown
Posts: 4,622
Originally Posted by bynmdsue View Post
Is it starting to seem like people don't understand that there already are background checks in place for the majority of transactions?
I don't know, it sure seems like most people seem to get that just fine, they just aren't big fans of the gaps in the system.
__________________
"When you say 'you won't forget me' I can tell you that's untrue, cause every day since you left me I've thought less and less of you."
realityisnotadditive... blog... thingy...
elbe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2013, 06:47 PM   #1003
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 23,338
Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
In no terms, except one that you're making up. Did you not read? Everyone agreed BEFORE HAND that the vote had to be 60 to pass. For ALL of them amendments of this bill.
Everyone agreed that the votes had to have the save number of votes as a filibuster to pass. Sounds like overcoming a filibuster to me.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2013, 06:51 PM   #1004
triforcharity
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The South!
Posts: 13,973
Nope. Sorry. Go read again the link I already posted. It'll help with your continued misunderstanding
triforcharity is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th April 2013, 02:17 PM   #1005
NWO Sentryman
Proud NWO Gatekeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Quantum Gate to the NWO
Posts: 5,356
Interesting article on Gun Culture in the US: http://www.businessweek.com/articles...-does#r=lr-fst

Playing up the "moral panic" angle of no assault weapons ban somehow turning people into Horned Reapers... stay classy.
__________________
If I now say "dominoes", you won't think "pizza". Will you? - FireGarden on the Middle East
NWO Sentryman is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th April 2013, 02:58 PM   #1006
uke2se
Philosopher
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,974
Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
Interesting article on Gun Culture in the US: http://www.businessweek.com/articles...-does#r=lr-fst

Playing up the "moral panic" angle of no assault weapons ban somehow turning people into Horned Reapers... stay classy.
Good article, thanks.
uke2se is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th April 2013, 04:45 PM   #1007
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 5,586
Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
Interesting article on Gun Culture in the US: http://www.businessweek.com/articles...-does#r=lr-fst
From the article;
Quote:
Luke Chicoine, an economist at the University of Notre Dame, estimates that the expiration of the federal assault weapons ban led to at least 2,684 additional homicides in Mexico.
How did the expiration of the 1994 AWB in 2004 lead to any additional homicides? No one had their semi-auto firearm confiscated as a result of the ban, sales dramatically increased as a result of the bill passing the first vote. Sales of post-ban semi-auto rifles remained brisk during the ten years the ban was in effect. The AWB expired with a whimper as far as I can tell. The guns sold after the sunset did not get more lethal and the export controls did not change as a result of the sunset. So how did Chicoine come up with this claim?

Ranb

Last edited by Ranb; 25th April 2013 at 04:46 PM.
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th April 2013, 07:16 PM   #1008
uke2se
Philosopher
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,974
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
From the article;

How did the expiration of the 1994 AWB in 2004 lead to any additional homicides? No one had their semi-auto firearm confiscated as a result of the ban, sales dramatically increased as a result of the bill passing the first vote. Sales of post-ban semi-auto rifles remained brisk during the ten years the ban was in effect. The AWB expired with a whimper as far as I can tell. The guns sold after the sunset did not get more lethal and the export controls did not change as a result of the sunset. So how did Chicoine come up with this claim?

Ranb
http://www.econ-jobs.com/research/32...-in-Mexico.pdf
uke2se is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th April 2013, 07:37 PM   #1009
Giz
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK/US
Posts: 4,585
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
That whole study can be refuted with "correlation does not equal causation". It makes John Lott's work look statistically rigorous.
Giz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th April 2013, 05:31 AM   #1010
uke2se
Philosopher
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,974
Originally Posted by Giz View Post
That whole study can be refuted with "correlation does not equal causation". It makes John Lott's work look statistically rigorous.
I especially enjoy how you show this with evidence.
uke2se is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th April 2013, 05:42 AM   #1011
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 53,863
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I especially enjoy how you show this with evidence.
The study assumes that if a murder occurred with a weapon banned under the AWB it wouldn't have occurred at all, which is nonsense. It's like saying that if the car that ran over the pedestrian was a Toyota the accident wouldn't have happened if Toyotas were banned, when in reality it would have just been some other brand of car running them over.

Then in those other studies there's the typical nonsense such as including suicides in the gun deaths to pad the numbers, even though other equally lethal methods of suicide are readily available. And not counting a gun as having been used defensively unless it's actually been used to shoot someone.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th April 2013, 06:00 PM   #1012
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 5,586
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I did not see where the author of the report considered any causes of the higher homicide rate other than the availability of assault weapons. He fails to mention that the supply of semi-auto weapons did not decrease as the result of the AWB. An M-1a without a bayonet lug and an AR-15 without a threaded muzzle/bayonet lug is just as lethal as an assault weapon defined by the AWB of 1994. It is easy to add on the banned features of a post ban rifle if they are wanted, especially for criminals that import them over the border.

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2013, 06:49 AM   #1013
NWO Sentryman
Proud NWO Gatekeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Quantum Gate to the NWO
Posts: 5,356
What if the Obama Administration decided to push for Australia style gun laws, and argued that because the republicans were unwilling to compromise, they would now face stricter laws?
__________________
If I now say "dominoes", you won't think "pizza". Will you? - FireGarden on the Middle East
NWO Sentryman is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2013, 08:17 AM   #1014
uke2se
Philosopher
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,974
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I did not see where the author of the report considered any causes of the higher homicide rate other than the availability of assault weapons. He fails to mention that the supply of semi-auto weapons did not decrease as the result of the AWB. An M-1a without a bayonet lug and an AR-15 without a threaded muzzle/bayonet lug is just as lethal as an assault weapon defined by the AWB of 1994. It is easy to add on the banned features of a post ban rifle if they are wanted, especially for criminals that import them over the border.

Ranb
Perhaps you should write an article refuting his?
uke2se is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2013, 08:19 AM   #1015
uke2se
Philosopher
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,974
Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
What if the Obama Administration decided to push for Australia style gun laws, and argued that because the republicans were unwilling to compromise, they would now face stricter laws?
That would be funny at first, but would probably end in bloodshed.
uke2se is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2013, 08:25 AM   #1016
Giz
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK/US
Posts: 4,585
Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
What if the Obama Administration decided to push for Australia style gun laws, and argued that because the republicans were unwilling to compromise, they would now face stricter laws?
He can't get minor changes passed. What makes you think he could get major changes? (and IF he could get the major changes... I think he would already be going for them)
Giz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2013, 09:18 AM   #1017
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 5,586
Originally Posted by Giz View Post
He can't get minor changes passed. What makes you think he could get major changes? (and IF he could get the major changes... I think he would already be going for them)
Take another look at that bill. It had many changes in it. They need to go at this one by one, not all at once. Gun owners are gaining back their rights little by little at the state level. If anyone wants to make changes, then it is best that they do it slowly.

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2013, 09:18 AM   #1018
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 53,863
Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
What if the Obama Administration decided to push for Australia style gun laws, and argued that because the republicans were unwilling to compromise, they would now face stricter laws?
What on earth makes you think he could get those laws passed when he couldn't even get the background checks through Congress?
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2013, 09:43 AM   #1019
NWO Sentryman
Proud NWO Gatekeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Quantum Gate to the NWO
Posts: 5,356
Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
What on earth makes you think he could get those laws passed when he couldn't even get the background checks through Congress?
He could get out a massive Anti-gun campaign in between now and 2014, and the new congressmen could be more willing to pass such laws, or at least tax gun ownership out of existence and restrict advertising for guns the same way tobacco ads are restricted. Michael Bloomberg's campaign worked.

Given that US schools are panicking and armouring their pupils with bulletproof uniforms and backpacks, perhaps the Obama administration could find some success there.
__________________
If I now say "dominoes", you won't think "pizza". Will you? - FireGarden on the Middle East

Last edited by NWO Sentryman; 27th April 2013 at 09:44 AM.
NWO Sentryman is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2013, 10:32 AM   #1020
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 53,863
Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
He could get out a massive Anti-gun campaign in between now and 2014, and the new congressmen could be more willing to pass such laws, or at least tax gun ownership out of existence and restrict advertising for guns the same way tobacco ads are restricted. Michael Bloomberg's campaign worked will be overwhelmingly pro-gun as a result.
ftfy

Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
Given that US schools are panicking and armouring their pupils with bulletproof uniforms and backpacks, perhaps the Obama administration could find some success there.


Where are you getting this nonsense?
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2013, 10:37 AM   #1021
NWO Sentryman
Proud NWO Gatekeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Quantum Gate to the NWO
Posts: 5,356
Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Where are you getting this nonsense?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...ms-gun-control
__________________
If I now say "dominoes", you won't think "pizza". Will you? - FireGarden on the Middle East
NWO Sentryman is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2013, 10:41 AM   #1022
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 53,863
Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
The article text doesn't support the claim in the headline, let alone your hysterical claims.

I guess that's why you couldn't quote anything, correct?
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2013, 12:10 PM   #1023
Giz
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK/US
Posts: 4,585
Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
300 bullet proof backpacks bought, privately, from a potential pool of a hundred million customers. This is the equivalent of crazed doomsday peppers.

Even for the guardian, printing this as 'news' is embarrassing.
Giz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2013, 12:18 PM   #1024
Nessie
Philosopher
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: At the bottom of a dark Scottish loch.
Posts: 7,932
"However, until the U.S. sees its 13,000 annual shooting deaths as a problem meriting serious gun-ownership restrictions, nothing much will change."

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...ulture-does#p2
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2013, 03:53 PM   #1025
triforcharity
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The South!
Posts: 13,973
Expressing an opinion? Ok. I see lots of those every day. Does he cite some evidence, or something of value?
triforcharity is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

JREF Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:12 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001-2013, James Randi Educational Foundation. All Rights Reserved.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.