Shell game scam

Matty1973 · 3rd February 2013, 12:41 PM

I saw some guys doing the shell game scam today. Did it right in front of me and I couldn't see how he did it. I can see how he would place it under the new box but can't see how he got it from under the original one.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

thaiboxerken · 3rd February 2013, 12:53 PM

Oh, he's cheating for sure. I'd tell you how, but that would violate magician's code. If you want to know how it's done, you can get DVD's or books on how. I like the shell game, but I never use it to swindle money from people.

Garrette · 3rd February 2013, 02:11 PM

TBK is right. It is a trick, and not a particularly hard one. Furthermore, it is nearly impossible to catch out the scammer. It is like Three Card Monte that way. Regardless if you know the method, you cannot tell when an expert makes "the move."

marplots · 4th February 2013, 07:36 AM

Garrett, he actually shows the "secret move" by mistake at 1:50 when he shows where the ball is.

I like the comments the guy filming makes at the end..."They're all together..."

On a brighter note, is that a carpet sample or maybe a car floor mat? Great surface to work on and the rubber backing probably gives it durability for street use.

Not a fan of working on the ground though -- too much leg and knee work. Imagine an hour or two of squatting or kneeling on the hard pavement. Yikes.

Matty1973 · 4th February 2013, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Garrette

TBK is right. It is a trick, and not a particularly hard one. Furthermore, it is nearly impossible to catch out the scammer. It is like Three Card Monte that way. Regardless if you know the method, you cannot tell when an expert makes "the move."

I think I see what you mean. From looking at the video some more, once I have chosen a match box he then makes the move.

Brown · 4th February 2013, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Garrette

TBK is right. It is a trick, and not a particularly hard one. Furthermore, it is nearly impossible to catch out the scammer. It is like Three Card Monte that way. Regardless if you know the method, you cannot tell when an expert makes "the move."

For the umpteenth time, I echo what Garrette said. I learned this trick at TAM2 ... well, not actually AT TAM2, but at a magicians' convention that was being held at one of the other nearby hotels, with some really big names there ... but what I'm trying to say is that I learned it from a pro.

And, as is the case with a lot of tricks, the secret is ridiculously simple, and if you know what to look for, you can follow what's going on.

THIS performer was VERY easy to follow. He was far from being an expert. The experts, the really good performers, are much harder to catch. Even if you see them pushing the shells around and trying to misdirect you by pointing this way and that, you can't be sure when they've done the dirty work.

One of the better performers would even let the sucker turn over the shell himself, to see whether the pea was there. The sucker was always wrong, of course, and the performer would simply push forward a different shell and say the pea was really there, and usually it was (and if it wasn't there, it would be found under the remaining shell ... thus disproving that sucker's suspicion that there was no pea under any shell).

Garrette · 4th February 2013, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by marplots

Garrett, he actually shows the "secret move" by mistake at 1:50 when he shows where the ball is.

I like the comments the guy filming makes at the end..."They're all together..."

On a brighter note, is that a carpet sample or maybe a car floor mat? Great surface to work on and the rubber backing probably gives it durability for street use.

Not a fan of working on the ground though -- too much leg and knee work. Imagine an hour or two of squatting or kneeling on the hard pavement. Yikes.

The move at 1:50 is not the key move; that came much earlier. My point, though, is that both moves are indistinguishable from him not making the move, so that eve an expert cannot tell if he is switching the ball's location or merely looking as if he is, caveated, of course, with Brown's observation that I am referring to professional performers.

Matty1973 · 4th February 2013, 01:51 PM

I found this news report from last summer of some people getting arrested for doing the same scam on a bridge nearby to where I saw it. I've taken some picture grabs from the video and the news report. They look quite similar to me.

thaiboxerken · 4th February 2013, 02:32 PM

Scum like that should be jailed. Using conjurer tricks to swindle people is wrong.

marplots · 5th February 2013, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by Garrette

The move at 1:50 is not the key move; that came much earlier. My point, though, is that both moves are indistinguishable from him not making the move, so that eve an expert cannot tell if he is switching the ball's location or merely looking as if he is, caveated, of course, with Brown's observation that I am referring to professional performers.

Sure it is. He means to flip the box over to show the pea, but instead slides it and the pea pops out. Maybe "secret property" is a better description than "secret move."

Brown · 5th February 2013, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by marplots

Sure it is. He means to flip the box over to show the pea, but instead slides it and the pea pops out. Maybe "secret property" is a better description than "secret move."

Hmm. Yes and no. In a sense, none of the props needs to have any special properties. For example, it is not necessary that a shell seem to be solid, yet have a secret soft flap or trap door ...

Indeed, all of the props are capable of withstanding examination from a spectator. The spectator would see that each prop is exactly what it seems to be. Smart performers generally don't let spectators examine all of the props at once, however, lest one of the secrets of the overall effect be inadvertently exposed. In that sense, it could be said that the props, working in concert, have a sort of secret property.

marplots · 5th February 2013, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by Brown

Hmm. Yes and no. In a sense, none of the props needs to have any special properties. For example, it is not necessary that a shell seem to be solid, yet have a secret soft flap or trap door ...

Indeed, all of the props are capable of withstanding examination from a spectator. The spectator would see that each prop is exactly what it seems to be. Smart performers generally don't let spectators examine all of the props at once, however, lest one of the secrets of the overall effect be inadvertently exposed. In that sense, it could be said that the props, working in concert, have a sort of secret property.

Yes, that is what I meant and why the mat was of interest to me as well.

This is my favorite on the subject: http://www.chefanton.com/scoundrelsstore/shell_game.htm

(No commercial interest on my part, I just really like the instruction in this one.)

thaiboxerken · 5th February 2013, 08:20 AM

I use a standard mat myself. But I do lots of card tricks too.

Brown · 5th February 2013, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by marplots

Yes, that is what I meant and why the mat was of interest to me as well.

This is my favorite on the subject: http://www.chefanton.com/scoundrelsstore/shell_game.htm

(No commercial interest on my part, I just really like the instruction in this one.)

It looks like Bob Sheets is one of the instructors. I watched Bob Sheets do his routine once, and his was the most entertaining to watch. He could fool you without making you feel like you were a fool (unless you were a "wise guy," in which case he could humiliate you). One of the techniques I've borrowed from Bob, not just for the shell game but for other effects, is:

marplots · 5th February 2013, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

I use a standard mat myself. But I do lots of card tricks too.

You mean the standard close-up pad right? How do you transport it without it getting all bent up, folded and so on? Mine have sponge rubber backings and absorb anything spilled on them -- also a bugger to clean. That's why I thought the "car mat" style in that video might be better, especially for busking.

thaiboxerken · 5th February 2013, 08:48 AM

I roll up the mat so it's not creased. I've machined washed it and it's like new afterwards. I ordered it at Hank's magic factory.

fuelair · 5th February 2013, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Scum like that should be jailed. Using conjurer tricks to swindle people is wrong.

True, so true. But I would not shoot them because they do not endanger me (I don't gamble - or take unnecessary chances!)!

thaiboxerken · 5th February 2013, 09:09 AM

I might be inclined to ruin the guy's tricks if I came across. I'd demand to change the implements so that they make it very hard to do "the move."

Skeptical Greg · 5th February 2013, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Matty1973

I saw some guys doing the shell game scam today. Did it right in front of me and I couldn't see how he did it. I can see how he would place it under the new box but can't see how he got it from under the original one.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The video is private..

thaiboxerken · 5th February 2013, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

The video is private..

No, you just have to look under the correct link to see it. You have three choices.....

Skeptical Greg · 5th February 2013, 04:44 PM

Is this a trick ?

thaiboxerken · 5th February 2013, 04:52 PM

The video was not private when originally posted. I don't know why the OP would make it private now.

marplots · 5th February 2013, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

Is this a trick ?

Oh no. No trick.

It's a little game of hinky poo, two for me and one for you. Flash yo money, drop a twenny, dere ain't nothin' here that's funny.

Five 'ill get ya ten and a ten will get a Jackson, use your eyes my friend and let's create some action!

Watch the pea, watch the pea. One for you and two for me.

Garrette · 6th February 2013, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by marplots

Oh no. No trick.

It's a little game of hinky poo, two for me and one for you. Flash yo money, drop a twenny, dere ain't nothin' here that's funny.

Five 'ill get ya ten and a ten will get a Jackson, use your eyes my friend and let's create some action!

Watch the pea, watch the pea. One for you and two for me.

3rd February 2013, 12:53 PM	#2
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,985	Oh, he's cheating for sure. I'd tell you how, but that would violate magician's code. If you want to know how it's done, you can get DVD's or books on how. I like the shell game, but I never use it to swindle money from people.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

3rd February 2013, 02:11 PM	#3
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,555	TBK is right. It is a trick, and not a particularly hard one. Furthermore, it is nearly impossible to catch out the scammer. It is like Three Card Monte that way. Regardless if you know the method, you cannot tell when an expert makes "the move."
	__________________ My kids still love me.

4th February 2013, 07:36 AM	#4
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,412	Garrett, he actually shows the "secret move" by mistake at 1:50 when he shows where the ball is. I like the comments the guy filming makes at the end..."They're all together..." On a brighter note, is that a carpet sample or maybe a car floor mat? Great surface to work on and the rubber backing probably gives it durability for street use. Not a fan of working on the ground though -- too much leg and knee work. Imagine an hour or two of squatting or kneeling on the hard pavement. Yikes.
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,412

4th February 2013, 11:25 AM	#6
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,170	Originally Posted by Garrette TBK is right. It is a trick, and not a particularly hard one. Furthermore, it is nearly impossible to catch out the scammer. It is like Three Card Monte that way. Regardless if you know the method, you cannot tell when an expert makes "the move." For the umpteenth time, I echo what Garrette said. I learned this trick at TAM2 ... well, not actually AT TAM2, but at a magicians' convention that was being held at one of the other nearby hotels, with some really big names there ... but what I'm trying to say is that I learned it from a pro. And, as is the case with a lot of tricks, the secret is ridiculously simple, and if you know what to look for, you can follow what's going on. THIS performer was VERY easy to follow. He was far from being an expert. The experts, the really good performers, are much harder to catch. Even if you see them pushing the shells around and trying to misdirect you by pointing this way and that, you can't be sure when they've done the dirty work. One of the better performers would even let the sucker turn over the shell himself, to see whether the pea was there. The sucker was always wrong, of course, and the performer would simply push forward a different shell and say the pea was really there, and usually it was (and if it wasn't there, it would be found under the remaining shell ... thus disproving that sucker's suspicion that there was no pea under any shell).
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

4th February 2013, 12:43 PM	#7
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,555	Originally Posted by marplots Garrett, he actually shows the "secret move" by mistake at 1:50 when he shows where the ball is. I like the comments the guy filming makes at the end..."They're all together..." On a brighter note, is that a carpet sample or maybe a car floor mat? Great surface to work on and the rubber backing probably gives it durability for street use. Not a fan of working on the ground though -- too much leg and knee work. Imagine an hour or two of squatting or kneeling on the hard pavement. Yikes. The move at 1:50 is not the key move; that came much earlier. My point, though, is that both moves are indistinguishable from him not making the move, so that eve an expert cannot tell if he is switching the ball's location or merely looking as if he is, caveated, of course, with Brown's observation that I am referring to professional performers.
	__________________ My kids still love me.

4th February 2013, 10:33 AM	#5
Matty1973 Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: London Posts: 253	Originally Posted by Garrette TBK is right. It is a trick, and not a particularly hard one. Furthermore, it is nearly impossible to catch out the scammer. It is like Three Card Monte that way. Regardless if you know the method, you cannot tell when an expert makes "the move." I think I see what you mean. From looking at the video some more, once I have chosen a match box he then makes the move.

4th February 2013, 02:32 PM	#9
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,985	Scum like that should be jailed. Using conjurer tricks to swindle people is wrong.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

5th February 2013, 05:58 AM	#10
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,412	Originally Posted by Garrette The move at 1:50 is not the key move; that came much earlier. My point, though, is that both moves are indistinguishable from him not making the move, so that eve an expert cannot tell if he is switching the ball's location or merely looking as if he is, caveated, of course, with Brown's observation that I am referring to professional performers. Sure it is. He means to flip the box over to show the pea, but instead slides it and the pea pops out. Maybe "secret property" is a better description than "secret move."
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,412

5th February 2013, 06:25 AM	#11
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,170	Originally Posted by marplots Sure it is. He means to flip the box over to show the pea, but instead slides it and the pea pops out. Maybe "secret property" is a better description than "secret move." Hmm. Yes and no. In a sense, none of the props needs to have any special properties. For example, it is not necessary that a shell seem to be solid, yet have a secret soft flap or trap door ... Indeed, all of the props are capable of withstanding examination from a spectator. The spectator would see that each prop is exactly what it seems to be. Smart performers generally don't let spectators examine all of the props at once, however, lest one of the secrets of the overall effect be inadvertently exposed. In that sense, it could be said that the props, working in concert, have a sort of secret property.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

5th February 2013, 06:35 AM	#12
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,412	Originally Posted by Brown Hmm. Yes and no. In a sense, none of the props needs to have any special properties. For example, it is not necessary that a shell seem to be solid, yet have a secret soft flap or trap door ... Indeed, all of the props are capable of withstanding examination from a spectator. The spectator would see that each prop is exactly what it seems to be. Smart performers generally don't let spectators examine all of the props at once, however, lest one of the secrets of the overall effect be inadvertently exposed. In that sense, it could be said that the props, working in concert, have a sort of secret property. Yes, that is what I meant and why the mat was of interest to me as well. This is my favorite on the subject: http://www.chefanton.com/scoundrelsstore/shell_game.htm (No commercial interest on my part, I just really like the instruction in this one.)
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,412

5th February 2013, 08:20 AM	#13
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,985	I use a standard mat myself. But I do lots of card tricks too.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

5th February 2013, 08:26 AM	#14
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,170	Originally Posted by marplots Yes, that is what I meant and why the mat was of interest to me as well. This is my favorite on the subject: http://www.chefanton.com/scoundrelsstore/shell_game.htm (No commercial interest on my part, I just really like the instruction in this one.) It looks like Bob Sheets is one of the instructors. I watched Bob Sheets do his routine once, and his was the most entertaining to watch. He could fool you without making you feel like you were a fool (unless you were a "wise guy," in which case he could humiliate you). One of the techniques I've borrowed from Bob, not just for the shell game but for other effects, is: When showing the spectators that I haven't done anything sneaky, THAT'S when I do something sneaky.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

5th February 2013, 08:29 AM	#15
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,412	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken I use a standard mat myself. But I do lots of card tricks too. You mean the standard close-up pad right? How do you transport it without it getting all bent up, folded and so on? Mine have sponge rubber backings and absorb anything spilled on them -- also a bugger to clean. That's why I thought the "car mat" style in that video might be better, especially for busking.
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,412

5th February 2013, 08:48 AM	#16
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,985	I roll up the mat so it's not creased. I've machined washed it and it's like new afterwards. I ordered it at Hank's magic factory.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

5th February 2013, 09:06 AM	#17
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken Scum like that should be jailed. Using conjurer tricks to swindle people is wrong. True, so true. But I would not shoot them because they do not endanger me (I don't gamble - or take unnecessary chances!)!
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

5th February 2013, 09:09 AM	#18
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,985	I might be inclined to ruin the guy's tricks if I came across. I'd demand to change the implements so that they make it very hard to do "the move."
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

5th February 2013, 04:42 PM	#20
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,985	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg The video is private.. No, you just have to look under the correct link to see it. You have three choices.....
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

5th February 2013, 04:44 PM	#21
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past 'Resume Speed' Posts: 12,873	Is this a trick ?
	__________________ " Somewhere between Jesus dying on the cross, and a giant bunny hiding eggs,there seems to be a gap in information. " Stan - Southpark Prove your computer is not a wimp ! Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232

5th February 2013, 04:52 PM	#22
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,985	The video was not private when originally posted. I don't know why the OP would make it private now.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

5th February 2013, 04:53 PM	#23
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,412	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg Is this a trick ? Oh no. No trick. It's a little game of hinky poo, two for me and one for you. Flash yo money, drop a twenny, dere ain't nothin' here that's funny. Five 'ill get ya ten and a ten will get a Jackson, use your eyes my friend and let's create some action! Watch the pea, watch the pea. One for you and two for me.
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,412

6th February 2013, 03:07 AM	#24
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,555	Originally Posted by marplots Oh no. No trick. It's a little game of hinky poo, two for me and one for you. Flash yo money, drop a twenny, dere ain't nothin' here that's funny. Five 'ill get ya ten and a ten will get a Jackson, use your eyes my friend and let's create some action! Watch the pea, watch the pea. One for you and two for me.
	__________________ My kids still love me.