|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
9th January 2013, 07:38 AM | #1 |
Jedi Consular
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,077
|
Hume’s Syndrome
Hello to all my fellow supporters of secularism!
I have something here that I would like to present for your consideration and discussion. Hume’s Syndrome: Irrational Resistance to the Paranormal Abstract One of the obstacles to progress in psychical research is irrational resistance to the phenomena. Among eighteenth-century Enlightenment writers, one type of resistance was evident that has persisted until present times. To illustrate, the present paper looks at David Hume’s discussion of miracles in his An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding (1748/1955). Hume’s essay actually lays out a good case for some extraordinary events reported about the death of the Jansenist Francois de Paris—phenomena produced by the so-called ‘‘convulsionaries of St. Medard.’’ The contradiction is resolved by Hume himself, who naively reveals what motivates him to deny the overwhelming testimony he reviews: namely, his fear of validating religion. This paper notes the same pressure to deny ‘‘miracles’’ in another eighteenth-century writer, Edward Gibbon; Gibbon, however, unlike Hume, yields to the pressure of evidence and admits one startling instance of a well-documented preternatural event. A third figure from the same century is cited, a rationalistic Promotor Fidei of the Catholic Church, Prosper Lambertini, who, ironically, may be cited as having advanced the cause of the scientific investigation of psychic phenomena. The lesson from history is not to be seduced by stereotypes: an empiricist can deny and distort facts; a religious believer can be critical and objective. [...] Conclusion History is full of surprises and contradictions: a philosopher of genius, and radical exponent of experience, is blinded by his assumptions and cashiers whole dimensions of experience. On the other hand, an embodiment of ‘‘Papism’’ is fair, rational, and objective in his treatment of the same outlaw phenomena. So much for stereotypes. Hume’s syndrome pervades all walks of life and all points of view. Irrational repression of the paranormal—of the different, the unexpected - can become so ingrained as to become a disposition. We tend to see what we expect to see and what confirms or is consistent with our worldview. Regardless of status, education, or accomplishment, an extra effort is necessary to see the gorilla in the room with us. Thoughts? |
__________________
"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo. "Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief." |
|
9th January 2013, 07:41 AM | #2 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,844
|
|
9th January 2013, 07:47 AM | #3 |
Muse
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 742
|
Who's Hume? Who cares? Show me that gorilla.
|
9th January 2013, 07:50 AM | #4 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,620
|
This is complete projection and once again nothing more than an attempt to bog people down on the defensive. It ignores why recognizing the evidence for the paranormal is always dependent upon a person's personal standards of evidence and creates a circular argument where one can always claim the evidence is there to see but your standards are just too rigid to recognize it.
It supposes everyone is just unfair to the paranormal. |
9th January 2013, 07:56 AM | #5 |
Muse
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 734
|
BS
|
9th January 2013, 08:01 AM | #6 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,139
|
He gets an awful lot out of Hume's comment about miracles being used as a foundation for religion. I guess that's why dead men make such good topics, I suppose.
Funny how the more outlandish claims for miracles (flying about the church like a bird) have subsided as visual recording devices have become more common. |
9th January 2013, 11:05 AM | #7 |
Jedi Consular
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,077
|
Hmm. I guess it's rather useless discussing Hume’s Syndrome with a community infested with it.
|
__________________
"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo. "Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief." |
|
9th January 2013, 11:08 AM | #8 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,844
|
|
9th January 2013, 11:42 AM | #9 |
Ovis ex Machina
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sir Ddinbych
Posts: 7,001
|
|
9th January 2013, 11:59 AM | #10 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,566
|
Paranormal
New to this forum. I want to tell of an event that was pretty convincing to me on a personal level, as to the existence of a furure life. My Mother died about 5 years ago and a few years after, I had a strange dream of her talking with me. The way it was conveyed was most peculiar. In my dream I'm doing some chores and her voice came like it were on a cell phone. So that in the dream I was putting around and we were talking. I have never dreamed in that manner before. I asked about my Grandparents and she said she sees them only occasionally and that she was pretty busy but she wanted me to know she was doing well. She said she had to coordinate with a lot of people in her work. She always loved working. Make your own conclusions but it didn't sound like she was living a life of constant religious activities but an extension of her life here.
|
9th January 2013, 12:00 PM | #11 |
Scholar
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 81
|
|
9th January 2013, 12:07 PM | #12 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
|
|
9th January 2013, 12:11 PM | #13 |
Scholar
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 81
|
|
9th January 2013, 12:14 PM | #14 |
RSL Acolyte
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,982
|
I have these kinds of dreams rather a lot. I had one recently where I could hear both my deceased grandmothers talking. It was vivid and sounded exactly like them, and was almost as if they were talking through a speaker phone directly into my head. In the dream I was fascinated to be talking with them. I asked them questions about life after death, what they were doing now, etc.
When I woke up and reflected on the conversation, though, I realized at one point one of them had been recounting in detail a situation that had never happened. She had been describing her death, falling while outside walking along a trail. She asked me to tell my mother not to feel guilty for not being there. In fact she had died in a hospital after having a stroke during physical therapy. |
__________________
www.stopsylvia.com |
|
9th January 2013, 12:19 PM | #15 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,710
|
No, all you have to do is present evidence of the paranormal. How hard could that be?
|
9th January 2013, 12:26 PM | #16 |
Jedi Consular
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,077
|
On this forum, they expect people to ignore events that are convincing on a personal level. See, people just aren't smart enough to do their own thinking about their own experiences, and so you need to yield to the authority of the scientific mainstream and skeptic community so they can do your thinking for you. Oh and welcome to JREF! |
__________________
"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo. "Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief." |
|
9th January 2013, 12:37 PM | #17 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,710
|
|
9th January 2013, 12:38 PM | #18 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 304
|
Is it really irrational to ask for proof beyond anecdote and hearsay for claims of the paranormal, knowing that people can be mistaken, uninformed, and/or dishonest?
If you make a claim, back it up. It seems fairly simple. |
9th January 2013, 12:38 PM | #19 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
|
|
9th January 2013, 12:40 PM | #20 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
|
|
9th January 2013, 12:55 PM | #21 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,844
|
|
9th January 2013, 01:07 PM | #22 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
|
Because if we gave credence to everything that convinced one person we'd believe literally every fictional story ever.
You need only yield to the scientific process. Make a question, form a hypothesis, make a prediction, test the prediction, analyze the results. The paranormal is mostly stuck at stage one, as is most pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, and beliefs in magic. They even name it "Just asking questions" as if that were a benefit. |
__________________
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor |
|
9th January 2013, 01:26 PM | #23 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
|
|
9th January 2013, 01:27 PM | #24 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,382
|
OP: Define the opponent
That is all. |
9th January 2013, 01:31 PM | #25 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,047
|
I like to think of it as the Mulder syndrome.
Mulder saw plenty of things which were convincing on the personal level. But, in order to convince other people, he had to have something which was convincing on another level. Even he acknowledged that on occasion. |
__________________
When Americans talk about freedom, it’s our secular code word for salvation. There’s no salvation outside the church; there’s no freedom outside the American way of life. -- James Carroll B'tselem Tony Karon's blog |
|
9th January 2013, 01:34 PM | #26 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
|
The problem is he thinks everyone is an Agent Scully.
|
__________________
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor |
|
9th January 2013, 01:36 PM | #27 |
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,814
|
|
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? |
|
9th January 2013, 01:47 PM | #28 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,296
|
I agree with the OP.
If there was irrational repression of the paranormal I'd be shouting it from the rooftops. Please direct me to the paranormal. Show me the part that is being repressed. Point to the part that is being subject to repression of an irrational nature. I'm ready and waiting to assist. |
__________________
What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it.... |
|
9th January 2013, 02:03 PM | #29 |
a carbon based life-form
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
|
|
9th January 2013, 02:06 PM | #30 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
|
|
9th January 2013, 02:12 PM | #31 |
Scholar
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 81
|
|
9th January 2013, 02:16 PM | #32 |
deus ex machina
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,981
|
|
__________________
The phrase deus ex machina (literally "god out of a machine") describes an unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot... |
|
9th January 2013, 02:28 PM | #33 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,844
|
|
9th January 2013, 02:31 PM | #34 |
Scholar
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 81
|
|
9th January 2013, 03:04 PM | #35 |
Safely Ignored
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 16,392
|
So, David Hume was 'irrational' to reject unevidenced superstition. What a meanie. Maybe he should have just suspended his disbelief and embraced the magic.
Hilarious. |
9th January 2013, 03:15 PM | #36 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
|
|
9th January 2013, 03:29 PM | #37 |
If Charlie Parker Was a Gunslinger, There'd Be a Whole Lot of Dead Copycats
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,326
|
I think the first sentence of the OP is a blatant lie.
|
__________________
Creativity is more than just being different. Anybody can plan weird; that's easy. What's hard is to be as simple as Bach. Making the simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. - Charles Mingus |
|
9th January 2013, 06:08 PM | #38 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,175
|
|
9th January 2013, 06:11 PM | #39 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,175
|
|
9th January 2013, 06:20 PM | #40 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,566
|
Authentic or just Hope?
>>>>>
What I mean is that I never had a conversational dream before that I recall; where I asked a question and there would be a pause and then an answer and it ran through about a dozen questions and answers. I too am skeptical of the dream but I hold out that maybe people get reincarnated into lives that build on this one. I wish to explain also my outlook about Reincarnation. It has its drawbacks as any religion but OTOH I can see some big advantages over eternal damnation etc. Some justice too. If I am cruel to animals perhaps I will someday have such an animal's life myself. (I notice that in reports of the lives of serial killers many are vicious to animals, Low form of humanity to act that way). Still I don't think eternal damnation is fair to any person. Maybe Its just wishful thinking about the dream and all. I know if I died and went to Heaven, I could not be joyful seeing others in Hell as some Religious people say. Reincarnation is appealing on these grounds but not proof of it's reality. |
Thread Tools | |
|
|