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Old 9th January 2013, 07:38 AM   #1
Limbo
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Hume’s Syndrome

Hello to all my fellow supporters of secularism!

I have something here that I would like to present for your consideration and discussion.

Hume’s Syndrome: Irrational Resistance to the Paranormal

Abstract

One of the obstacles to progress in psychical research is irrational resistance to the phenomena. Among eighteenth-century Enlightenment writers, one type of resistance was evident that has persisted until present times. To illustrate, the present paper looks at David Hume’s discussion of miracles in his An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding (1748/1955).

Hume’s essay actually lays out a good case for some extraordinary events reported about the death of the Jansenist Francois de Paris—phenomena produced by the so-called ‘‘convulsionaries of St. Medard.’’ The contradiction is resolved by Hume himself, who naively reveals what motivates him to deny the overwhelming testimony he reviews: namely, his fear of validating religion.

This paper notes the same pressure to deny ‘‘miracles’’ in another eighteenth-century writer, Edward Gibbon; Gibbon, however, unlike Hume, yields to the pressure of evidence and admits one startling instance of a well-documented preternatural event. A third figure from the same century is cited, a rationalistic Promotor Fidei of the Catholic Church, Prosper Lambertini, who, ironically, may be cited as having advanced the cause of the scientific investigation of psychic phenomena.

The lesson from history is not to be seduced by stereotypes: an empiricist can deny and distort facts; a religious believer can be critical and objective.

[...]

Conclusion

History is full of surprises and contradictions: a philosopher of genius, and radical exponent of experience, is blinded by his assumptions and cashiers whole dimensions of experience. On the other hand, an embodiment of ‘‘Papism’’ is fair, rational, and objective in his treatment of the same outlaw phenomena. So much for stereotypes. Hume’s syndrome pervades all walks of life and all points of view.

Irrational repression of the paranormal—of the different, the unexpected - can become so ingrained as to become a disposition. We tend to see what we expect to see and what confirms or is consistent with our worldview. Regardless of status, education, or accomplishment, an extra effort is necessary to see the gorilla in the room with us.


Thoughts?
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Old 9th January 2013, 07:41 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
<verbositysnip>
Thoughts?
Is there evidence for the existence of the paranormal?
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Old 9th January 2013, 07:47 AM   #3
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Who's Hume? Who cares? Show me that gorilla.
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Old 9th January 2013, 07:50 AM   #4
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This is complete projection and once again nothing more than an attempt to bog people down on the defensive. It ignores why recognizing the evidence for the paranormal is always dependent upon a person's personal standards of evidence and creates a circular argument where one can always claim the evidence is there to see but your standards are just too rigid to recognize it.

It supposes everyone is just unfair to the paranormal.

Last edited by Halfcentaur; 9th January 2013 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 9th January 2013, 07:56 AM   #5
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Old 9th January 2013, 08:01 AM   #6
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He gets an awful lot out of Hume's comment about miracles being used as a foundation for religion. I guess that's why dead men make such good topics, I suppose.

Funny how the more outlandish claims for miracles (flying about the church like a bird) have subsided as visual recording devices have become more common.
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Old 9th January 2013, 11:05 AM   #7
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Hmm. I guess it's rather useless discussing Hume’s Syndrome with a community infested with it.
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"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."
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Old 9th January 2013, 11:08 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Hmm. I guess it's rather useless discussing Hume’s Syndrome with a community infested with it.
No, it's useless discussing evidence for the paranormal without any evidence for it.
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Old 9th January 2013, 11:42 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Hmm. I guess it's rather useless discussing Hume’s Syndrome with a community infested with it.


It's funny 'cos you think you're making a valid point.
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Old 9th January 2013, 11:59 AM   #10
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Paranormal

Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Is there evidence for the existence of the paranormal?
New to this forum. I want to tell of an event that was pretty convincing to me on a personal level, as to the existence of a furure life. My Mother died about 5 years ago and a few years after, I had a strange dream of her talking with me. The way it was conveyed was most peculiar. In my dream I'm doing some chores and her voice came like it were on a cell phone. So that in the dream I was putting around and we were talking. I have never dreamed in that manner before. I asked about my Grandparents and she said she sees them only occasionally and that she was pretty busy but she wanted me to know she was doing well. She said she had to coordinate with a lot of people in her work. She always loved working. Make your own conclusions but it didn't sound like she was living a life of constant religious activities but an extension of her life here.

Last edited by Fellow Traveler; 9th January 2013 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 9th January 2013, 12:00 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Hmm. I guess it's rather useless discussing Hume’s Syndrome with a community infested with it.
Do you have or know of this elusive evidence? If so I would be fascinated to see it.
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Old 9th January 2013, 12:07 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Cheesy One View Post
Do you have or know of this elusive evidence? If so I would be fascinated to see it.
He's been to the dark side of the Moon. Isn't that enough?
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Old 9th January 2013, 12:11 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
He's been to the dark side of the Moon. Isn't that enough?
Have to go check again. Last time I was over there I saw nothing of the sort.
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Old 9th January 2013, 12:14 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Fellow Traveler View Post
New to this forum. I want to tell of an event that was pretty convincing to me on a personal level, as to the existence of a furure life. My Mother died about 5 years ago and a few years after, I had a strange dream of her talking with me. The way it was conveyed was most peculiar. In my dream I'm doing some chores and her voice came like it were on a cell phone. So that in the dream I was putting around and we were talking. I have never dreamed in that manner before. I asked about my Grandparents and she said she sees them only occasionally and that she was pretty busy but she wanted me to know she was doing well. She said she had to coordinate with a lot of people in her work. She always loved working. Make your own conclusions but it didn't sound like she was living a life of constant religious activities but an extension of her life here.
I have these kinds of dreams rather a lot. I had one recently where I could hear both my deceased grandmothers talking. It was vivid and sounded exactly like them, and was almost as if they were talking through a speaker phone directly into my head. In the dream I was fascinated to be talking with them. I asked them questions about life after death, what they were doing now, etc.

When I woke up and reflected on the conversation, though, I realized at one point one of them had been recounting in detail a situation that had never happened. She had been describing her death, falling while outside walking along a trail. She asked me to tell my mother not to feel guilty for not being there. In fact she had died in a hospital after having a stroke during physical therapy.
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Old 9th January 2013, 12:19 PM   #15
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No, all you have to do is present evidence of the paranormal. How hard could that be?
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Old 9th January 2013, 12:26 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Fellow Traveler View Post
New to this forum. I want to tell of an event that was pretty convincing to me on a personal level, as to the existence of a furure life. My Mother died about 5 years ago and a few years after, I had a strange dream of her talking with me. The way it was conveyed was most peculiar. In my dream I'm doing some chores and her voice came like it were on a cell phone. So that in the dream I was putting around and we were talking. I have never dreamed in that manner before. I asked about my Grandparents and she said she sees them only occasionally and that she was pretty busy but she wanted me to know she was doing well. She said she had to coordinate with a lot of people in her work. She always loved working. Make your own conclusions but it didn't sound like she was living a life of constant religious activities but an extension of her life here.

On this forum, they expect people to ignore events that are convincing on a personal level. See, people just aren't smart enough to do their own thinking about their own experiences, and so you need to yield to the authority of the scientific mainstream and skeptic community so they can do your thinking for you.

Oh and welcome to JREF!
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"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

Last edited by Limbo; 9th January 2013 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 9th January 2013, 12:37 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
On this forum, they expect people to ignore events that are convincing on a personal level. See, people just aren't smart enough to do their own thinking about their own experiences, and so you need to yield to the authority of the scientific mainstream and skeptic community so they can do your thinking for you.

Oh and welcome to JREF!
No, we expect there to be evidence for claims.
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Old 9th January 2013, 12:38 PM   #18
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Is it really irrational to ask for proof beyond anecdote and hearsay for claims of the paranormal, knowing that people can be mistaken, uninformed, and/or dishonest?

If you make a claim, back it up. It seems fairly simple.
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Old 9th January 2013, 12:38 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
On this forum, they expect people to ignore events that are convincing on a personal level. See, people just aren't smart enough to do their own thinking about their own experiences, and so you need to yield to the authority of the scientific mainstream and skeptic community so they can do your thinking for you.

Oh and welcome to JREF!
We're smart enough not fall for the complete tosh known as mysticism. How is the goddess, still inside the mountain?
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Old 9th January 2013, 12:40 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Hecubas View Post
Is it really irrational to ask for proof beyond anecdote and hearsay for claims of the paranormal, knowing that people can be mistaken, uninformed, and/or dishonest?

If you make a claim, back it up. It seems fairly simple.
Mysticism has no evidence to back up its claims, only campfire stories. Limbo, do you really believe that you have been to the dark side of the Moon, or are you joshing?
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Old 9th January 2013, 12:55 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Fellow Traveler View Post
New to this forum. I want to tell of an event that was pretty convincing to me on a personal level, as to the existence of a furure life. My Mother died about 5 years ago and a few years after, I had a strange dream of her talking with me. The way it was conveyed was most peculiar. In my dream I'm doing some chores and her voice came like it were on a cell phone. So that in the dream I was putting around and we were talking. I have never dreamed in that manner before. I asked about my Grandparents and she said she sees them only occasionally and that she was pretty busy but she wanted me to know she was doing well. She said she had to coordinate with a lot of people in her work. She always loved working. Make your own conclusions but it didn't sound like she was living a life of constant religious activities but an extension of her life here.
Can you explain why you find a dream convincing?
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Old 9th January 2013, 01:07 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
On this forum, they expect people to ignore events that are convincing on a personal level.
Because if we gave credence to everything that convinced one person we'd believe literally every fictional story ever.

Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
See, people just aren't smart enough to do their own thinking about their own experiences, and so you need to yield to the authority of the scientific mainstream and skeptic community so they can do your thinking for you.
You need only yield to the scientific process. Make a question, form a hypothesis, make a prediction, test the prediction, analyze the results.

The paranormal is mostly stuck at stage one, as is most pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, and beliefs in magic. They even name it "Just asking questions" as if that were a benefit.
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Old 9th January 2013, 01:26 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ehcks View Post
The paranormal is mostly stuck at stage one, as is most pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, and beliefs in magic. They even name it "Just asking questions" as if that were a benefit.
Mysticism is the logical process in its infancy.
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Old 9th January 2013, 01:27 PM   #24
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OP: Define the opponent

That is all.
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Old 9th January 2013, 01:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
On this forum, they expect people to ignore events that are convincing on a personal level. See, people just aren't smart enough to do their own thinking about their own experiences, and so you need to yield to the authority of the scientific mainstream and skeptic community so they can do your thinking for you.
I like to think of it as the Mulder syndrome.
Mulder saw plenty of things which were convincing on the personal level. But, in order to convince other people, he had to have something which was convincing on another level. Even he acknowledged that on occasion.
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Old 9th January 2013, 01:34 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by FireGarden View Post
I like to think of it as the Mulder syndrome.
Mulder saw plenty of things which were convincing on the personal level. But, in order to convince other people, he had to have something which was convincing on another level. Even he acknowledged that on occasion.
The problem is he thinks everyone is an Agent Scully.
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Old 9th January 2013, 01:36 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Hmm. I guess it's rather useless discussing Hume’s Syndrome with a community infested with it.
Show us the money. Where's the beef? Where is anything besides anecdotes or poor papers that, when corrected and re-run as experiments, fail conclusively?
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Old 9th January 2013, 01:47 PM   #28
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I agree with the OP.

If there was irrational repression of the paranormal I'd be shouting it from the rooftops.

Please direct me to the paranormal. Show me the part that is being repressed. Point to the part that is being subject to repression of an irrational nature. I'm ready and waiting to assist.
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Old 9th January 2013, 02:03 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
No, all you have to do is present evidence of the paranormal. How hard could that be?
In order to see evidence of the paranormal you first have to believe in the paranormal.
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Old 9th January 2013, 02:06 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
In order to see evidence of the paranormal you first have to believe in the paranormal.
And take the occasional trip to the dark side of the Moon. Limbo seems to be avoiding telling us about his imaginary jaunts.
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Old 9th January 2013, 02:12 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
And take the occasional trip to the dark side of the Moon. Limbo seems to be avoiding telling us about his imaginary jaunts.
I thought you were joking about that. I don't suppose he supplied evidence?
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Old 9th January 2013, 02:16 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
See, people just aren't smart enough to do their own thinking about their own experiences
No, they're not.
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Old 9th January 2013, 02:28 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Cheesy One View Post
I thought you were joking about that. I don't suppose he supplied evidence?
He left the evidence on the dark side of the moon.
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Old 9th January 2013, 02:31 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
He left the evidence on the dark side of the moon.
Not a useful spot to have left it. You'd think that would be something one would want to bring back. It is as if he couldn't prove he was there.
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Old 9th January 2013, 03:04 PM   #35
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So, David Hume was 'irrational' to reject unevidenced superstition. What a meanie. Maybe he should have just suspended his disbelief and embraced the magic.

Hilarious.
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Old 9th January 2013, 03:15 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Cheesy One View Post
I thought you were joking about that. I don't suppose he supplied evidence?
No joke. In another thread he told us that he had danced on the dark side of the Moon in his astral body and also walked inside a mountain with a goddess. Something tells me that these tales are not true.
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Old 9th January 2013, 03:29 PM   #37
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I think the first sentence of the OP is a blatant lie.
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Old 9th January 2013, 06:08 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Fellow Traveler View Post
New to this forum. I want to tell of an event that was pretty convincing to me on a personal level, as to the existence of a furure life. My Mother died about 5 years ago and a few years after, I had a strange dream of her talking with me. The way it was conveyed was most peculiar. In my dream I'm doing some chores and her voice came like it were on a cell phone. So that in the dream I was putting around and we were talking. I have never dreamed in that manner before. I asked about my Grandparents and she said she sees them only occasionally and that she was pretty busy but she wanted me to know she was doing well. She said she had to coordinate with a lot of people in her work. She always loved working. Make your own conclusions but it didn't sound like she was living a life of constant religious activities but an extension of her life here.
You had a dream about your dead mother and that convinced you of a 'future life'.
Well, there's no refuting that, is there?
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Old 9th January 2013, 06:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
On this forum, they expect people to ignore events that are convincing on a personal level. See, people just aren't smart enough to do their own thinking about their own experiences, and so you need to yield to the authority of the scientific mainstream and skeptic community so they can do your thinking for you.
Of course we ignore events that are 'convincing on a personal level' (whatever that means) There is no evidence for them. it has nothing to do with authority or getting someone to think for us.
There simply is nothing to think about
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Old 9th January 2013, 06:20 PM   #40
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Authentic or just Hope?

Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Can you explain why you find a dream convincing?
>>>>>
What I mean is that I never had a conversational dream before that I recall; where I asked a question and there would be a pause and then an answer and it ran through about a dozen questions and answers. I too am skeptical of the dream but I hold out that maybe people get reincarnated into lives that build on this one.
I wish to explain also my outlook about Reincarnation. It has its drawbacks as any religion but OTOH I can see some big advantages over eternal damnation etc. Some justice too. If I am cruel to animals perhaps I will someday have such an animal's life myself. (I notice that in reports of the lives of serial killers many are vicious to animals, Low form of humanity to act that way). Still I don't think eternal damnation is fair to any person. Maybe Its just wishful thinking about the dream and all. I know if I died and went to Heaven, I could not be joyful seeing others in Hell as some Religious people say. Reincarnation is appealing on these grounds but not proof of it's reality.
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