Jellyfish-like aliens exist.

Puppycow · 6th July 2012, 04:31 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ens-exist.html

I think I recall seeing these on Cosmos.

Puppycow · 6th July 2012, 04:39 AM

Did The Telegraph just make a serious scientist into a crank by twisting her words and/or taking them out of context?

Careyp74 · 6th July 2012, 05:30 AM

That is a good catch. For many like me who were unaware of her work, this article could give them the impression that she is nuts. Looking deeper, I see that she is giving an alternative to the green alien idea, because of her work with silicon. I am interested to see her ebook when it comes out.

steve s · 6th July 2012, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I think I recall seeing these on Cosmos.

Yep. Skip ahead to 0:53:13.

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MG1962 · 6th July 2012, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ens-exist.html

I think I recall seeing these on Cosmos.

The idea has been around since the 60's. Gas giants may have jellyfish like organisms living in the upper atmosphere. Nothing all that startling, and well within the realms of possibility.

Vortigern99 · 6th July 2012, 10:23 AM

The headline does not match the contents of the article. Nowhere does she say they exist.

Careyp74 · 6th July 2012, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Vortigern99

The headline does not match the contents of the article. Nowhere does she say they exist.

There's that attempt at sensationalism again. As one other poster pointed out in another thread, perhaps the writer doesn't decide what the headlines are. The body of the story could go either way, with sentences like "she also believes as many as four intelligent extraterrestrial civilisations could exist in our galaxy, the Milky Way. But they are so far away it is unlikely we will ever meet them."

Dinwar · 6th July 2012, 10:47 AM

A potentially interesting article ruined by sensationalism. Sad. Speculation about what non-Earth-like life could look like is always interesting; however, it seems we have to keep reminding publishers of that word "speculation".

Halfcentaur · 6th July 2012, 11:05 AM

It's starting to seem like media outlets are purposefully posting scientific articles which make science look uncertain and fallible.

Careyp74 · 6th July 2012, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Halfcentaur

It's starting to seem like media outlets are purposefully posting scientific articles which make science look uncertain and fallible.

Well I don't see what the purpose of.....

OMG, it is all clear to me now. How long do you think they will keep this up before phase II, where they start referring to all these articles and convince the public to change the curriculum to creationism?

kalen · 6th July 2012, 11:56 AM

I, for one, welcome our new squishy overlords...

Halfcentaur · 6th July 2012, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Careyp74

Well I don't see what the purpose of.....

OMG, it is all clear to me now. How long do you think they will keep this up before phase II, where they start referring to all these articles and convince the public to change the curriculum to creationism?

The purpose is to get more people to click the links to their articles.

Careyp74 · 6th July 2012, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Halfcentaur

The purpose is to get more people to click the links to their articles.

That is the purpose to sensationalism in general.

baron · 6th July 2012, 12:44 PM

What a ridiculous headline. If jellyfish-like aliens do exist I'll bet they can write a better article than that.

It's interesting to speculate on whether different forms of life exist but I'm also interested in whether different... and this is the problem, there's no word for it... different material arrangements exist.

What I mean is, we can examine as much dust and rock and gas as we like and I think I'm right in saying there is not yet any defined path between this non-life and what we call life. We can take life as a starting point and make some guesses about how it arose from non-life, but if we start with non-life and put the concept of life out of our minds there's no way we could predict it. This being so, why couldn't there be something else? Nothing remotely woo or spooky, just another aspect of matter that's as different from a rock and a human as the human is from the rock. Maybe dark matter is a case in point, who knows?

Halfcentaur · 6th July 2012, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Careyp74

That is the purpose to sensationalism in general.

Yeah, so? Currently its popular as sensationalism to imply that science is wishy washy. It's a recent addition to subjects that are currently employed in sensationalist tactics.

Puppycow · 6th July 2012, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by baron

It's interesting to speculate on whether different forms of life exist but I'm also interested in whether different... and this is the problem, there's no word for it... different material arrangements exist.

Sure, it's an interesting idea, but highly speculative. Is a silicon-based replicator even possible? We've never seen one, despite the presence of plenty of silicon on Earth.

Mojo · 7th July 2012, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Sure, it's an interesting idea, but highly speculative. Is a silicon-based replicator even possible? We've never seen one, despite the presence of plenty of silicon on Earth.

I suspect that once on type of replicator got going, it would outcompete (or at least fatally disturb) the early stages of another type.

I think that a bigger problem for silicon-based life is that while silicon may have the same valency as carbon, it doesn't have the same capacity for stable double bonds, so the range of potential molecular structures available is far more limited.

luchog · 9th July 2012, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Mojo

I think that a bigger problem for silicon-based life is that while silicon may have the same valency as carbon, it doesn't have the same capacity for stable double bonds, so the range of potential molecular structures available is far more limited.

There are a few other problems with silicon as well. The most promising alternative to carbon that I've read so far is a boron-ammonia system in a high-pressure/low temperature environment. Some hurdles there as well, but nearly as many as for silicon-based chemistry.

RenaissanceBiker · 10th July 2012, 06:46 AM

Why are the bouyancy bags hanging below the creature?

AvalonXQ · 10th July 2012, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by baron

What a ridiculous headline. If jellyfish-like aliens do exist I'll bet they can write a better article than that.

New headline:

"Jellyfish aliens found to be superior writers."

6th July 2012, 04:31 AM	#1
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,702	Jellyfish-like aliens exist. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ens-exist.html I think I recall seeing these on Cosmos.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

6th July 2012, 04:39 AM	#2
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,702	Did The Telegraph just make a serious scientist into a crank by twisting her words and/or taking them out of context?
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

6th July 2012, 10:23 AM	#6
Vortigern99 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 5,010	The headline does not match the contents of the article. Nowhere does she say they exist.
	__________________ "I'm 'willing to admit' any fact that can be shown to be evidential and certain." -- Vortigern99 / Noah D. Henson "One thing we've learned (and the Internet confirms this) is that humans will screw just about anything." -- Theagenes

6th July 2012, 10:47 AM	#8
Dinwar Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,896	A potentially interesting article ruined by sensationalism. Sad. Speculation about what non-Earth-like life could look like is always interesting; however, it seems we have to keep reminding publishers of that word "speculation".
Dinwar Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,896	__________________ GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment. Ein krieg ohne feinde.

6th July 2012, 11:05 AM	#9
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,935	It's starting to seem like media outlets are purposefully posting scientific articles which make science look uncertain and fallible.
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,935

6th July 2012, 05:30 AM	#3
Careyp74 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Trevose, PA Posts: 3,407	That is a good catch. For many like me who were unaware of her work, this article could give them the impression that she is nuts. Looking deeper, I see that she is giving an alternative to the green alien idea, because of her work with silicon. I am interested to see her ebook when it comes out.

6th July 2012, 10:21 AM	#5
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	Originally Posted by Puppycow http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ens-exist.html I think I recall seeing these on Cosmos. The idea has been around since the 60's. Gas giants may have jellyfish like organisms living in the upper atmosphere. Nothing all that startling, and well within the realms of possibility.

6th July 2012, 10:35 AM	#7
Careyp74 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Trevose, PA Posts: 3,407	Originally Posted by Vortigern99 The headline does not match the contents of the article. Nowhere does she say they exist. There's that attempt at sensationalism again. As one other poster pointed out in another thread, perhaps the writer doesn't decide what the headlines are. The body of the story could go either way, with sentences like "she also believes as many as four intelligent extraterrestrial civilisations could exist in our galaxy, the Milky Way. But they are so far away it is unlikely we will ever meet them."

6th July 2012, 11:16 AM	#10
Careyp74 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Trevose, PA Posts: 3,407	Originally Posted by Halfcentaur It's starting to seem like media outlets are purposefully posting scientific articles which make science look uncertain and fallible. Well I don't see what the purpose of..... OMG, it is all clear to me now. How long do you think they will keep this up before phase II, where they start referring to all these articles and convince the public to change the curriculum to creationism?

6th July 2012, 11:56 AM	#11
kalen Your Daddy Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Classified Posts: 933	I, for one, welcome our new squishy overlords...
	__________________ No way! Yahweh!

6th July 2012, 12:10 PM	#12
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,935	Originally Posted by Careyp74 Well I don't see what the purpose of..... OMG, it is all clear to me now. How long do you think they will keep this up before phase II, where they start referring to all these articles and convince the public to change the curriculum to creationism? The purpose is to get more people to click the links to their articles.
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,935

6th July 2012, 12:37 PM	#13
Careyp74 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Trevose, PA Posts: 3,407	Originally Posted by Halfcentaur The purpose is to get more people to click the links to their articles. That is the purpose to sensationalism in general.

6th July 2012, 12:44 PM	#14
baron Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Hill Posts: 1,910	What a ridiculous headline. If jellyfish-like aliens do exist I'll bet they can write a better article than that. It's interesting to speculate on whether different forms of life exist but I'm also interested in whether different... and this is the problem, there's no word for it... different material arrangements exist. What I mean is, we can examine as much dust and rock and gas as we like and I think I'm right in saying there is not yet any defined path between this non-life and what we call life. We can take life as a starting point and make some guesses about how it arose from non-life, but if we start with non-life and put the concept of life out of our minds there's no way we could predict it. This being so, why couldn't there be something else? Nothing remotely woo or spooky, just another aspect of matter that's as different from a rock and a human as the human is from the rock. Maybe dark matter is a case in point, who knows?
	__________________

6th July 2012, 02:26 PM	#15
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,935	Originally Posted by Careyp74 That is the purpose to sensationalism in general. Yeah, so? Currently its popular as sensationalism to imply that science is wishy washy. It's a recent addition to subjects that are currently employed in sensationalist tactics.
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,935

6th July 2012, 11:14 PM	#16
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,702	Originally Posted by baron It's interesting to speculate on whether different forms of life exist but I'm also interested in whether different... and this is the problem, there's no word for it... different material arrangements exist. Sure, it's an interesting idea, but highly speculative. Is a silicon-based replicator even possible? We've never seen one, despite the presence of plenty of silicon on Earth.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

7th July 2012, 01:23 AM	#17
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 22,066	Originally Posted by Puppycow Sure, it's an interesting idea, but highly speculative. Is a silicon-based replicator even possible? We've never seen one, despite the presence of plenty of silicon on Earth. I suspect that once on type of replicator got going, it would outcompete (or at least fatally disturb) the early stages of another type. I think that a bigger problem for silicon-based life is that while silicon may have the same valency as carbon, it doesn't have the same capacity for stable double bonds, so the range of potential molecular structures available is far more limited.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky Last edited by Mojo; 7th July 2012 at 01:24 AM.

9th July 2012, 12:42 PM	#18
luchog Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Emerald City Posts: 7,957	Originally Posted by Mojo I think that a bigger problem for silicon-based life is that while silicon may have the same valency as carbon, it doesn't have the same capacity for stable double bonds, so the range of potential molecular structures available is far more limited. There are a few other problems with silicon as well. The most promising alternative to carbon that I've read so far is a boron-ammonia system in a high-pressure/low temperature environment. Some hurdles there as well, but nearly as many as for silicon-based chemistry.
	__________________ "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams "The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf "Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon

10th July 2012, 06:46 AM	#19
RenaissanceBiker Eats shoots and leaves. Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 6,793	Why are the bouyancy bags hanging below the creature?
	__________________ "Truth does not contradict truth." - St. Augustine "Faith often contradicts faith. Therefore faith is not an indication of truth." - RenaissanceBiker

10th July 2012, 07:10 AM	#20
AvalonXQ Guest Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 11,853	Originally Posted by baron What a ridiculous headline. If jellyfish-like aliens do exist I'll bet they can write a better article than that. New headline: "Jellyfish aliens found to be superior writers."
AvalonXQ Guest Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 11,853