School shooting: but don't mention guns! - Page 60

Noztradamus · 30th December 2012, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by zeggman

In the United States, we don't control who can own a car, only who can drive one in public and the rules of the road. The equivalent regulation would seem to be a concealed carry license or a hunting license.

What about also banning the manufacture and sale of new automatic cars?

Hungry81 · 30th December 2012, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Noztradamus

What about also banning the manufacture and sale of new automatic cars?

Wow guns are not cars. You should discuss this interesting point in a new thread. I'm all for road safety and competent driving so I think regulation of cars is important. A number of countries have been quite successful at reducing road and traffic fatalities through intelligent regulation but that's not what this thread is about.

rwguinn · 30th December 2012, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Hungry81

Wow guns are not cars. You should discuss this interesting point in a new thread. I'm all for road safety and competent driving so I think regulation of cars is important. A number of countries have been quite successful at reducing road and traffic fatalities through intelligent regulation but that's not what this thread is about.

Look-
There are a number of people who think a reasonable thing is to charge and punish firearms owners who, through no fault of their own, have their firearms stolen and used illegally.
It is therefore within the rules of logic to point out that cars/trucks/motorcycles can also be stolen and used illegally.
Hell-if I lend my best buddy my car for a few days, and he does something illegal with it, I still don't get charged and jailed.

Multivac · 2nd January 2013, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

I really doubt that interest in guns in the UK is considered strange, given it's rich history of wonderful gunmaking, which continues today.

Then you are mistaken, as gun ownership and an interest in guns are generally seen as strange in the UK.

Multivac · 2nd January 2013, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by GeeMack

Yes. Read the thread. Your comment was untrue. And it is, of course, more support for the notion that people from the UK simply do not have the ability to be honest when discussing gun issues.

Why would you make such a bizarre claim? Obviously I cannot speak for other posters, but I have expressed my views honestly.

Multivac · 2nd January 2013, 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Sorry?

None of the UK posters have been dishonest in this thread.

As far as the discussion about the NRA and gun control, the worship of the second amendment means that a lot of the US pro-gun posters seem to be unable to see that being in favour of the status quo, the NRA *is* in effect anti gun control, as well as having previously successfully lobbied to neuter several current gun-control legislation, and indeed to prevent the federal organisation tasked with researching morbidity and mortality from actually researching gun injuries and killings.

Nessie · 2nd January 2013, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Multivac

Then you are mistaken, as gun ownership and an interest in guns are generally seen as strange in the UK.

That tends to be a city view. In the countryside guns are seen as tools to deal with vermin or for hunting, where we get all our venison and game from a gun is not seen as strange at all. Indeed gun owners are by the very fact that they have a gun are amongst the most responsible, level headed and decent members of the community.

zooterkin · 2nd January 2013, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Nessie

That tends to be a city view. In the countryside guns are seen as tools to deal with vermin or for hunting, where we get all our venison and game from a gun is not seen as strange at all. Indeed gun owners are by the very fact that they have a gun are amongst the most responsible, level headed and decent members of the community.

We already had this discussion. The point still stands; most people live in cities rather than the countryside, and even among country dwellers, an interest in guns per se, rather than as a tool to do a job, is likely to be looked at askance.

P.J. Denyer · 3rd January 2013, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

We already had this discussion. The point still stands; most people live in cities rather than the countryside, and even among country dwellers, an interest in guns per se, rather than as a tool to do a job, is likely to be looked at askance.

Agreed, even the most metrocentric city dweller in the UK sees a farmer with a shotgun (for example) as someone with a task appropriate tool, most people wouldn't raise an eyebrow at sports shotguns or target target shooting, but when someone starts to talk about handguns or military style rifles, unless they're in the military of course, they start to move into Mike from 'Spaced' territory pretty quickly.

Multivac · 3rd January 2013, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

Agreed, even the most metrocentric city dweller in the UK sees a farmer with a shotgun (for example) as someone with a task appropriate tool, most people wouldn't raise an eyebrow at sports shotguns or target target shooting, but when someone starts to talk about handguns or military style rifles, unless they're in the military of course, they start to move into Mike from 'Spaced' territory pretty quickly.

Exactly.

30th December 2012, 10:41 AM	#2361
Noztradamus Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,867	Originally Posted by zeggman In the United States, we don't control who can own a car, only who can drive one in public and the rules of the road. The equivalent regulation would seem to be a concealed carry license or a hunting license. What about also banning the manufacture and sale of new automatic cars?
	__________________ The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping.

30th December 2012, 05:41 PM	#2362
Hungry81 Thinker Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 166	Originally Posted by Noztradamus What about also banning the manufacture and sale of new automatic cars? Wow guns are not cars. You should discuss this interesting point in a new thread. I'm all for road safety and competent driving so I think regulation of cars is important. A number of countries have been quite successful at reducing road and traffic fatalities through intelligent regulation but that's not what this thread is about.
Hungry81 Thinker Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 166

30th December 2012, 06:23 PM	#2363
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 8,451	Originally Posted by Hungry81 Wow guns are not cars. You should discuss this interesting point in a new thread. I'm all for road safety and competent driving so I think regulation of cars is important. A number of countries have been quite successful at reducing road and traffic fatalities through intelligent regulation but that's not what this thread is about. Look- There are a number of people who think a reasonable thing is to charge and punish firearms owners who, through no fault of their own, have their firearms stolen and used illegally. It is therefore within the rules of logic to point out that cars/trucks/motorcycles can also be stolen and used illegally. Hell-if I lend my best buddy my car for a few days, and he does something illegal with it, I still don't get charged and jailed.
	__________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275

2nd January 2013, 09:17 AM	#2367
Nessie Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: At the bottom of a dark Scottish loch. Posts: 4,863	Originally Posted by Multivac Then you are mistaken, as gun ownership and an interest in guns are generally seen as strange in the UK. That tends to be a city view. In the countryside guns are seen as tools to deal with vermin or for hunting, where we get all our venison and game from a gun is not seen as strange at all. Indeed gun owners are by the very fact that they have a gun are amongst the most responsible, level headed and decent members of the community.
	__________________ Audiophile/biker/sceptic

2nd January 2013, 10:31 AM	#2368
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 24,598	Originally Posted by Nessie That tends to be a city view. In the countryside guns are seen as tools to deal with vermin or for hunting, where we get all our venison and game from a gun is not seen as strange at all. Indeed gun owners are by the very fact that they have a gun are amongst the most responsible, level headed and decent members of the community. We already had this discussion. The point still stands; most people live in cities rather than the countryside, and even among country dwellers, an interest in guns per se, rather than as a tool to do a job, is likely to be looked at askance.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232

2nd January 2013, 03:11 AM	#2364
Multivac Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,947	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 I really doubt that interest in guns in the UK is considered strange, given it's rich history of wonderful gunmaking, which continues today. Then you are mistaken, as gun ownership and an interest in guns are generally seen as strange in the UK.

2nd January 2013, 03:18 AM	#2365
Multivac Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,947	Originally Posted by GeeMack Yes. Read the thread. Your comment was untrue. And it is, of course, more support for the notion that people from the UK simply do not have the ability to be honest when discussing gun issues. Why would you make such a bizarre claim? Obviously I cannot speak for other posters, but I have expressed my views honestly.

2nd January 2013, 03:30 AM	#2366
Multivac Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,947	Originally Posted by jimbob Sorry? None of the UK posters have been dishonest in this thread. As far as the discussion about the NRA and gun control, the worship of the second amendment means that a lot of the US pro-gun posters seem to be unable to see that being in favour of the status quo, the NRA is in effect anti gun control, as well as having previously successfully lobbied to neuter several current gun-control legislation, and indeed to prevent the federal organisation tasked with researching morbidity and mortality from actually researching gun injuries and killings.

3rd January 2013, 01:55 AM	#2369
P.J. Denyer Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,159	Originally Posted by zooterkin We already had this discussion. The point still stands; most people live in cities rather than the countryside, and even among country dwellers, an interest in guns per se, rather than as a tool to do a job, is likely to be looked at askance. Agreed, even the most metrocentric city dweller in the UK sees a farmer with a shotgun (for example) as someone with a task appropriate tool, most people wouldn't raise an eyebrow at sports shotguns or target target shooting, but when someone starts to talk about handguns or military style rifles, unless they're in the military of course, they start to move into Mike from 'Spaced' territory pretty quickly.

3rd January 2013, 03:43 AM	#2370
Multivac Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,947	Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer Agreed, even the most metrocentric city dweller in the UK sees a farmer with a shotgun (for example) as someone with a task appropriate tool, most people wouldn't raise an eyebrow at sports shotguns or target target shooting, but when someone starts to talk about handguns or military style rifles, unless they're in the military of course, they start to move into Mike from 'Spaced' territory pretty quickly. Exactly.