What personal benefits have you found in either believing, or not believing in a god? - Page 2

bruto · 4th February 2013, 08:08 AM

Though I messed with religious ideas for a long time, when I got to the point, I realized that most of it comes down to an observation I made when I was about twelve: my penis is connected only at one end.

Merton · 4th February 2013, 10:09 AM

While I don't know if I'd say I ever believed in a god--when I was old enough to decide these kinds of things, I was more of an inquisitive "agnostic"--I think the biggest benefit of not believing is the congruent understanding of how the universe works. When there is no god to create Earth, mankind, the cosmos, or morality, you can investigate whence they've come and arrive at explanations that can withstand a modicum of scrutiny. I think the knowledge attained even makes me a more confident person, which is rather helpful for someone as shy as I.

Gawdzilla · 4th February 2013, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by bruto

Though I messed with religious ideas for a long time, when I got to the point, I realized that most of it comes down to an observation I made when I was about twelve: my penis is connected only at one end.

Nominated.

MikeAparicio · 5th February 2013, 12:15 PM

If you are talking of a dictator god, punishing and censoring, cruel and unfair, capricious and demanding, anthropomorphic and bearded, sky flying and cloud riding... then I feel very happy NOT believing, but...
If you are talking of Supreme Intelligence, Endless Power, Absolute Justice, Infinite Creativity, Omnipresence, Ever Expanding Love, Unlimited Wisdom and Beautiful Simplicity then I rejoice in Knowing Him more than "believing"...

tsig · 5th February 2013, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by MikeAparicio

If you are talking of a dictator god, punishing and censoring, cruel and unfair, capricious and demanding, anthropomorphic and bearded, sky flying and cloud riding... then I feel very happy NOT believing, but...
If you are talking of Supreme Intelligence, Endless Power, Absolute Justice, Infinite Creativity, Omnipresence, Ever Expanding Love, Unlimited Wisdom and Beautiful Simplicity then I rejoice in Knowing Him more than "believing"...

If this world is his creation then Loving and Wisdom seem to have been left out.

How do you know he's a him?

dafydd · 5th February 2013, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by tsig

If this world is his creation then Loving and Wisdom seem to have been left out.

How do you know he's a him?

Must be the long white beard, that's a dead giveaway.

MikeAparicio · 5th February 2013, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by tsig

If this world is his creation then Loving and Wisdom seem to have been left out.

How do you know he's a him?

Well! You are touching precisely the Mystery of God!

Love and Wisdom certainly are NOT in your world.
You just decided. God will always please you upon what you deeply think.
If God does not exist, for you, how could you expect Wisdom and Love to be in YOUR world?

He or she? or it? The same.
God can be all three at the same time.
Another mystery closed for narrow angle minds and small hearts!

dafydd · 5th February 2013, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by MikeAparicio

Love and Wisdom certainly are NOT in your world.

They're not in god's world either, judging by the Old Testament and the number of children in the world today with cancer.

RandFan · 5th February 2013, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by MikeAparicio

Well! You are touching precisely the Mystery of God!

Theist apologetics: If you can't explain something then god.

bruto · 5th February 2013, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by MikeAparicio

Well! You are touching precisely the Mystery of God!

Love and Wisdom certainly are NOT in your world.
You just decided. God will always please you upon what you deeply think.
If God does not exist, for you, how could you expect Wisdom and Love to be in YOUR world?

He or she? or it? The same.
God can be all three at the same time.
Another mystery closed for narrow angle minds and small hearts!

It seems love and wisdom are much harder to display than to assert.

tsig · 5th February 2013, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by MikeAparicio

Well! You are touching precisely the Mystery of God!

Love and Wisdom certainly are NOT in your world.
You just decided. God will always please you upon what you deeply think.
If God does not exist, for you, how could you expect Wisdom and Love to be in YOUR world?

He or she? or it? The same.
God can be all three at the same time.
Another mystery closed for narrow angle minds and small hearts!

God won't give Wisdom unless we believe in It?

That last sentence hilited, is that an example of god's Love?

If so I'll pass on a Love that stoops so low.

tsig · 5th February 2013, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

It seems love and wisdom are much harder to display than to assert.

Odd how Love looks a lot like snark and insults. This one didn't take long to go the low road.

dafydd · 6th February 2013, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by RandFan

Theist apologetics: If you can't explain something then god.

The only mystery about the Christian god is why anybody would believe in and admire such an evil bugger.

CriticalSock · 6th February 2013, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by RandFan

Bottom line, I'm free from external forces. I do not suffer guilt from doing things my religion deemed sinful but harmed no one. I do not suffer from cognitive dissonance.

I don't think anyone is free from external forces. They're real forces not supernatural though.

Originally Posted by Bikewer

the host stuck to the roof of my mouth

I've been to parties where that's happened.

Personally the benefits for me when I believed in God was that I fitted in with my social group. And because I was brought up in a minority religion (Jehovahs Witnesses) with a culture of "Otherness", I indulged myself in feeling good because I was in the "special" group and not a dirty "worldy" outsider. I also got to meet a lot of young women too. There wasn't any sex but there was a lot of choice of marriage partners. Not getting invited to parties in a 100 mile radius of where I live was a major shock for me when I left.

The benefits of not believing in God any more aren't that huge. Intellectual honesty, guilt free internet surfing, that sort of thing. But as has already been said, it's not a cost benefit scenario. Once I no longer believed it was not possible to pretend to believe to get the benefits.

Oh! Watching science \ nature programs on TV and being able to be openly fascinated by explanations of evolution or a world that hasn't undergone a global flood. That's a big benefit.

Cainkane1 · 6th February 2013, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by deaman

I am not seeking rebuttal, or critique, on other people's beliefs. I am seeking your own personal experience in believing, or not believing in a god(s).

Thank you.

By not believing in god or the supernatural I am no longer disappointed when I pray and not a thing happens.

RandFan · 6th February 2013, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by CriticalSock

I don't think anyone is free from external forces. They're real forces not supernatural though.

Fair cop. Poor wording on my part. You are correct. Thank you.

RandFan · 6th February 2013, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Dinwar

Also, I can't believe you're stupid enough to think Ayn Rand is popular here.

As a Rand fan let me say you are correct. Though I should also note that I'm not an Objectivist and I think her philosophy less than rigorous.

Belz... · 12th February 2013, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by deaman

I am not seeking rebuttal, or critique, on other people's beliefs. I am seeking your own personal experience in believing, or not believing in a god(s).

Thank you.

The benefits of not believing ? Reality.

4th February 2013, 08:08 AM	#41
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 11,181	Though I messed with religious ideas for a long time, when I got to the point, I realized that most of it comes down to an observation I made when I was about twelve: my penis is connected only at one end.
	__________________ "Sir, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding.(Samuel Johnson) The gods are less for their love of praise....(Wendell Berry)

4th February 2013, 10:09 AM	#42
Merton Muse Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Montana, USA Posts: 576	While I don't know if I'd say I ever believed in a god--when I was old enough to decide these kinds of things, I was more of an inquisitive "agnostic"--I think the biggest benefit of not believing is the congruent understanding of how the universe works. When there is no god to create Earth, mankind, the cosmos, or morality, you can investigate whence they've come and arrive at explanations that can withstand a modicum of scrutiny. I think the knowledge attained even makes me a more confident person, which is rather helpful for someone as shy as I.
	__________________ "My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." - Thomas Paine "We are convinced that liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; and that socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality." - Mikhail Bakunin

4th February 2013, 10:36 AM	#43
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,363	Originally Posted by bruto Though I messed with religious ideas for a long time, when I got to the point, I realized that most of it comes down to an observation I made when I was about twelve: my penis is connected only at one end. Nominated.
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

5th February 2013, 12:15 PM	#44
MikeAparicio Guest Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 304	Depends on your notion of God If you are talking of a dictator god, punishing and censoring, cruel and unfair, capricious and demanding, anthropomorphic and bearded, sky flying and cloud riding... then I feel very happy NOT believing, but... If you are talking of Supreme Intelligence, Endless Power, Absolute Justice, Infinite Creativity, Omnipresence, Ever Expanding Love, Unlimited Wisdom and Beautiful Simplicity then I rejoice in Knowing Him more than "believing"...
MikeAparicio Guest Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 304	Last edited by MikeAparicio; 5th February 2013 at 12:18 PM. Reason: typo

5th February 2013, 02:14 PM	#46
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,444	Originally Posted by tsig If this world is his creation then Loving and Wisdom seem to have been left out. How do you know he's a him? Must be the long white beard, that's a dead giveaway.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

5th February 2013, 02:07 PM	#45
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 26,688	Originally Posted by MikeAparicio If you are talking of a dictator god, punishing and censoring, cruel and unfair, capricious and demanding, anthropomorphic and bearded, sky flying and cloud riding... then I feel very happy NOT believing, but... If you are talking of Supreme Intelligence, Endless Power, Absolute Justice, Infinite Creativity, Omnipresence, Ever Expanding Love, Unlimited Wisdom and Beautiful Simplicity then I rejoice in Knowing Him more than "believing"... If this world is his creation then Loving and Wisdom seem to have been left out. How do you know he's a him?

5th February 2013, 04:08 PM	#47
MikeAparicio Guest Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 304	Originally Posted by tsig If this world is his creation then Loving and Wisdom seem to have been left out. How do you know he's a him? Well! You are touching precisely the Mystery of God! Love and Wisdom certainly are NOT in your world. You just decided. God will always please you upon what you deeply think. If God does not exist, for you, how could you expect Wisdom and Love to be in YOUR world? He or she? or it? The same. God can be all three at the same time. Another mystery closed for narrow angle minds and small hearts!
MikeAparicio Guest Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 304

5th February 2013, 04:52 PM	#48
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,444	Originally Posted by MikeAparicio Love and Wisdom certainly are NOT in your world. They're not in god's world either, judging by the Old Testament and the number of children in the world today with cancer.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

5th February 2013, 05:57 PM	#49
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,128	Originally Posted by MikeAparicio Well! You are touching precisely the Mystery of God! Theist apologetics: If you can't explain something then god.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

5th February 2013, 08:55 PM	#50
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 11,181	Originally Posted by MikeAparicio Well! You are touching precisely the Mystery of God! Love and Wisdom certainly are NOT in your world. You just decided. God will always please you upon what you deeply think. If God does not exist, for you, how could you expect Wisdom and Love to be in YOUR world? He or she? or it? The same. God can be all three at the same time. Another mystery closed for narrow angle minds and small hearts! It seems love and wisdom are much harder to display than to assert.
	__________________ "Sir, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding.(Samuel Johnson) The gods are less for their love of praise....(Wendell Berry)

5th February 2013, 11:51 PM	#51
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 26,688	Originally Posted by MikeAparicio Well! You are touching precisely the Mystery of God! Love and Wisdom certainly are NOT in your world. You just decided. God will always please you upon what you deeply think. If God does not exist, for you, how could you expect Wisdom and Love to be in YOUR world? He or she? or it? The same. God can be all three at the same time. Another mystery closed for narrow angle minds and small hearts! God won't give Wisdom unless we believe in It? That last sentence hilited, is that an example of god's Love? If so I'll pass on a Love that stoops so low.

5th February 2013, 11:53 PM	#52
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 26,688	Originally Posted by bruto It seems love and wisdom are much harder to display than to assert. Odd how Love looks a lot like snark and insults. This one didn't take long to go the low road.

6th February 2013, 02:07 AM	#53
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,444	Originally Posted by RandFan Theist apologetics: If you can't explain something then god. The only mystery about the Christian god is why anybody would believe in and admire such an evil bugger.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

6th February 2013, 03:33 AM	#54
CriticalSock Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: In a little costwold stone cottage. Posts: 1,993	Originally Posted by RandFan Bottom line, I'm free from external forces. I do not suffer guilt from doing things my religion deemed sinful but harmed no one. I do not suffer from cognitive dissonance. I don't think anyone is free from external forces. They're real forces not supernatural though. Originally Posted by Bikewer the host stuck to the roof of my mouth I've been to parties where that's happened. Personally the benefits for me when I believed in God was that I fitted in with my social group. And because I was brought up in a minority religion (Jehovahs Witnesses) with a culture of "Otherness", I indulged myself in feeling good because I was in the "special" group and not a dirty "worldy" outsider. I also got to meet a lot of young women too. There wasn't any sex but there was a lot of choice of marriage partners. Not getting invited to parties in a 100 mile radius of where I live was a major shock for me when I left. The benefits of not believing in God any more aren't that huge. Intellectual honesty, guilt free internet surfing, that sort of thing. But as has already been said, it's not a cost benefit scenario. Once I no longer believed it was not possible to pretend to believe to get the benefits. Oh! Watching science \ nature programs on TV and being able to be openly fascinated by explanations of evolution or a world that hasn't undergone a global flood. That's a big benefit.

6th February 2013, 04:54 PM	#55
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,191	Originally Posted by deaman I am not seeking rebuttal, or critique, on other people's beliefs. I am seeking your own personal experience in believing, or not believing in a god(s). Thank you. By not believing in god or the supernatural I am no longer disappointed when I pray and not a thing happens.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

6th February 2013, 05:37 PM	#56
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,128	Originally Posted by CriticalSock I don't think anyone is free from external forces. They're real forces not supernatural though. Fair cop. Poor wording on my part. You are correct. Thank you.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

6th February 2013, 05:40 PM	#57
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,128	Originally Posted by Dinwar Also, I can't believe you're stupid enough to think Ayn Rand is popular here. As a Rand fan let me say you are correct. Though I should also note that I'm not an Objectivist and I think her philosophy less than rigorous.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

12th February 2013, 08:30 AM	#58
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,446	Originally Posted by deaman I am not seeking rebuttal, or critique, on other people's beliefs. I am seeking your own personal experience in believing, or not believing in a god(s). Thank you. The benefits of not believing ? Reality.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za: "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey "Physical evidence must be observed and interpreted by witnesses which makes it subjective and subject to mistakes and to fraud." - Robert Prey