No Witnesses to Planes Hitting the WTC

pomeroo · 14th October 2007, 07:42 PM

After a year of experiencing the 9/11 fantasy movement in its various guises, I still retain my initial amazement at the lengths to which some people will go to create an alternate reality. Here is a determined, if deranged, attempt to show that nobody actually saw planes hit the Towers:

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cm...=134&Itemid=60

Please note that he seriously (?) contends that there were 117 people close enough to be witnesses. What could persuade such a person that there were thousands?

The Doc · 14th October 2007, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by pomeroo

After a year of experiencing the 9/11 fantasy movement in its various guises, I still retain my initial amazement at the lengths to which some people will go to create an alternate reality. Here is a determined, if deranged, attempt to show that nobody actually saw planes hit the Towers:

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cm...=134&Itemid=60

Please note that he seriously (?) contends that there were 117 people close enough to be witnesses. What could persuade such a person that there were thousands?

This guy can't be serious...?! There were 50,000 people in the buildings themselves. Not everyone who saw the plane can be interviewed on television for Christ's sake.

The odd thing, though, is that the Pentagon no-planers will also dismiss this guy as crazy, without seeing the irony.

Quad4_72 · 14th October 2007, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by pomeroo

After a year of experiencing the 9/11 fantasy movement in its various guises, I still retain my initial amazement at the lengths to which some people will go to create an alternate reality. Here is a determined, if deranged, attempt to show that nobody actually saw planes hit the Towers:

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cm...=134&Itemid=60

Please note that he seriously (?) contends that there were 117 people close enough to be witnesses. What could persuade such a person that there were thousands?

How is a person raised up in such a way that all critical thinking and logic are just thrown out the door? Is it for attention purposes?

OldTigerCub · 14th October 2007, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by pomeroo

After a year of experiencing the 9/11 fantasy movement in its various guises, I still retain my initial amazement at the lengths to which some people will go to create an alternate reality. Here is a determined, if deranged, attempt to show that nobody actually saw planes hit the Towers:

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cm...=134&Itemid=60

Please note that he seriously (?) contends that there were 117 people close enough to be witnesses. What could persuade such a person that there were thousands?

Sheesh....This one seems to be really out there. From this quote in his publication where he cites being enlightened by Dr. Wood, it's apparent that he's a "space beamer":

Quote:

For quite some time, I was convinced that the mechanism of the destruction of WTC 1 & 2 had to be similar to controlled demolition – it was the only thing that could account for the near free-fall time of “collapse”. However, I have since been enlightened through the results of Dr Wood’s study – the overall evidence does not support the idea that controlled demolition was the primary method of destruction of the towers. In examining the witness accounts, I found quite a few where the collapse was described as possibly like the sound of an approaching plane or rocket. For example, from the account of Faisel Abed (File No: 9110071):

Quote:

You just heard this thrushing, thrushing noise like a rocket. I thought the building was under attack again. You just start seeing this smoke coming down. We just took off. We went north. We actually -- sorry, we went west. We went towards the river. All right. Then we just went towards the river and went up north a little bit behind the building. That was after the first one went down.

He describes a continuous noise rather than lots of explosions going off. Let us not confuse this part of the account with those accounts of earlier explosions before the towers came down, rather than as they were coming down. The repeated sequence of timed explosions heard during a controlled demolition is very distinctive and none of the witness accounts I studied described hearing this sort of sound as the towers collapsed.

After reading that, I need a beer....no make that 6 or 7 beers....

Alareth · 14th October 2007, 08:35 PM

Ace has relatives across the pond?

pomeroo · 14th October 2007, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Alareth

Ace has relatives across the pond?

Ace has relatives in the pond.

quixotecoyote · 14th October 2007, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by pomeroo

Ace has relatives in the pond.

He made it out?

buka001 · 14th October 2007, 11:41 PM

Do any websites carry a decent list of witness accounts to the impacts on WTC.

HAd a troofer arguing that not a single person saw a plane hit the building.

tacodaemon · 14th October 2007, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Quad4_72

How is a person raised up in such a way that all critical thinking and logic are just thrown out the door? Is it for attention purposes?

At a couple of points in that essay I thought this guy was getting pretty close to the conclusion that the WTC never existed in the first place.

tacodaemon · 15th October 2007, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by OldTigerCub

After reading that, I need a beer....no make that 6 or 7 beers....

For debunkers, the lack of any sound of demolition charges going off is a pretty clear sign that the collapses happened naturally as the structure failed. For this guy, the lack of any sound of demolition charges going off is a pretty clear sign that laser guns from outer space did it.

Plantfoam · 15th October 2007, 12:21 AM

I'm pretty sure that termites brought the buildings down. No, I didn't misspell thermite.

MikeW · 15th October 2007, 01:03 AM

Some Flight 11 witnesses here

Some Flight 175 witnesses here

They're mostly people who saw the planes, though I've also included one or two accounts from people who only heard something.

Magenta · 15th October 2007, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by pomeroo

After a year of experiencing the 9/11 fantasy movement in its various guises, I still retain my initial amazement at the lengths to which some people will go to create an alternate reality. Here is a determined, if deranged, attempt to show that nobody actually saw planes hit the Towers:

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cm...=134&Itemid=60

Please note that he seriously (?) contends that there were 117 people close enough to be witnesses. What could persuade such a person that there were thousands?

He's restricted himself to the accounts of the first responders, not all of whom were in a position to see the planes hit. He breezily dismisses the video evidence:

Quote:

Overall, I conclude the descriptions of planes given by the witnesses do not give one any more confidence than the video material, such as that presented in the September Clues series, that large planes hit the towers. With something as unique as 9/11, it was easy to “sell” people the plane stories in the midst of such a terrible tragedy.

What a muppet.

peteweaver · 15th October 2007, 03:36 AM

I've known the niece of an eyewitness since 1981/ 82... Known her since I was 3.

Her uncle (Paul Berriff) saw flight 175 crash into WTC2 with his own eyes. He was injured in the attack. He's also a film maker, though I doubt that truther's would be interested in his factual documentary about the firefighters, which does not promote conspiracy theories, but simply tells their story...

pomeroo · 15th October 2007, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by peteweaver

I've known the niece of an eyewitness since 1981/ 82... Known her since I was 3.

Her uncle (Paul Berriff) saw flight 175 crash into WTC2 with his own eyes. He was injured in the attack. He's also a film maker, though I doubt that truther's would be interested in his factual documentary about the firefighters, which does not promote conspiracy theories, but simply tells their story...

See Morgan Reynolds's challenge to JREFers in the thread "Morgan Reynolds Responds to Greening." This no-plane nonsense is his baby.

apacherose105 · 15th October 2007, 10:08 AM

Misinformation agents..... 99.99% of people who question the official story will tell you that this is misinformation also. This should be a no brainer.

BenBurch · 15th October 2007, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by peteweaver

... He's also a film maker, though I doubt that truther's would be interested in his factual documentary about the firefighters, which does not promote conspiracy theories, but simply tells their story...

Pete? What is the name of this film? I would love to see it. Thanks!

Bell · 15th October 2007, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Pete? What is the name of this film? I would love to see it. Thanks!

I did a quick search on Google:

http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcas...762573,00.html

Wow...

WilliamSeger · 15th October 2007, 12:08 PM

There were no witnesses, because all the witnesses who saw the plane are lying.

There is no evidence of a plane at all, because all that evidence was faked.

This would be simple to prove except all the real evidence has been covered-up, and why would there be a cover-up if there wasn't a conspiracy?

Q.E.D.

T.A.M. · 15th October 2007, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by WilliamSeger

There were no witnesses, because all the witnesses who saw the plane are lying.

There is no evidence of a plane at all, because all that evidence was faked.

This would be simple to prove except all the real evidence has been covered-up, and why would there be a cover-up if there wasn't a conspiracy?

Q.E.D.

I originally had 4 headbanging icons here, then when I realized who posted, I realized the sarcasm...lol

TAM

uk_dave · 15th October 2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

You just heard this thrushing, thrushing noise like a rocket. I thought the building was under attack again. You just start seeing this smoke coming down. We just took off. We went north. We actually -- sorry, we went west. We went towards the river. All right. Then we just went towards the river and went up north a little bit behind the building. That was after the first one went down.

It was a yeast infection? Case solved.

BigAl · 16th October 2007, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by buka001

Do any websites carry a decent list of witness accounts to the impacts on WTC.

This book has lots of stories of people in the buildings.
102 Minutes by Dwyer & Flynn

nicepants · 16th October 2007, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by The Doc

This guy can't be serious...?! There were 50,000 people in the buildings themselves. Not everyone who saw the plane can be interviewed on television for Christ's sake.

The odd thing, though, is that the Pentagon no-planers will also dismiss this guy as crazy, without seeing the irony.

Dylan got particularly upset when Killtown relayed that sentiment during an on-air debate.

It was funny to hear one CTer telling another CTer that he's "got to back his statements up with fact". I got 2000% of my Recommended Daily Irony during that show.

MIKILLINI · 16th October 2007, 03:32 PM

I think that if you took those who believe there were no planes and those who believe the planes were remote-controlled and put them in the same room, both sides wouldn't come to any logical realization, except, maybe, each respective side would believe they are more right than the other.

firecoins · 16th October 2007, 07:36 PM

I know people who saw at least one of the two planes hit the towers.

Some of the videotape of 175 hitting was that of normal people with videocameras.

Tens of thousands of people saw the plane in person. They are all in on it.

MIKILLINI · 16th October 2007, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by firecoins

I know people who saw at least one of the two planes hit the towers.

Some of the videotape of 175 hitting was that of normal people with videocameras.

Tens of thousands of people saw the plane in person. They are all in on it.

Which means they are all guilty, as charged, of witnessing an actual event.

[Truther logic] Isn't there a law against that? [truther logic]

apacherose105 · 22nd October 2007, 09:37 AM

I'm a truther. I don't know anyone else that believes this no-plane *l****. I think it's misinformation.

Arus808 · 22nd October 2007, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by apacherose105

I'm a truther. I don't know anyone else that believes this no-plane ********. I think it's misinformation.

Unfortunately, it is not misinformation. it is the belief of several of your respected members of the 911 denial movement.

uk_dave · 22nd October 2007, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by apacherose105

I'm a truther. I don't know anyone else that believes this no-plane ********. I think it's misinformation.

Welcome to the forum.

Why must it be mis(dis?)information? Can't some people in the 'truth' movement be mentally unwell?

SpaceMonkeyZero · 22nd October 2007, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by apacherose105

I'm a truther. I don't know anyone else that believes this no-plane *****. I think it's misinformation.

So does that mean you believe in remote controlled planes?

Or that the "hijackers" were US Black Ops on a suicide mission?

Or that rather than just shred evidence of knowing about the plot months before 9/11, perform a CD of WTC 7, where this evidence just so happened to be kept?

Which is it?

Let me guess what you will say: "I don't know, but I sure don't believe the OCT"

Gravy · 22nd October 2007, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by apacherose105

I'm a truther. I don't know anyone else that believes this no-plane *****. I think it's misinformation.

Welcome to the forums, apacherose.

Don't forget that, as mentioned above, there are many truthers (although their numbers seem to be dwindling) who don't think a plane hit the Pentagon or crashed in Pennsylvania. They are every bit as kooky as the WTC no-planers.

Please cut out the "misinformation" paranoia, and face the fact that some people are just stupid or cruel or delusional or all of the above.

CHF · 22nd October 2007, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by apacherose105

I'm a truther. I don't know anyone else that believes this no-plane *****. I think it's misinformation.

Judy Wood, Uncle Fetzer, Morgan Reynolds and Killtown were all respected members of your movement at one time or another.

So what's the lesson here? Don't team up with lunatics and then act surprised when they say loony things.

pomeroo · 22nd October 2007, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Welcome to the forums, apacherose.

Don't forget that, as mentioned above, there are many truthers (although their numbers seem to be dwindling) who don't think a plane hit the Pentagon or crashed in Pennsylvania. They are every bit as kooky as the WTC no-planers.

Please cut out the "misinformation" paranoia, and face the fact that some people are just stupid or cruel or delusional or all of the above.

Deleted

pomeroo · 22nd October 2007, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by apacherose105

I'm a truther. I don't know anyone else that believes this no-plane *****. I think it's misinformation.

No, what you are has nothing to do with truth. You are a fantasist, and you inhabit a realm outside reason and logic. Please try to understand, however, that there are no "disinfo agents." It's just loons disagreeing with other loons.

The Pig · 22nd October 2007, 10:38 AM

Quote:

A number of witnesses reported that they didn’t realize that the second impact was that of a plane – many of them “found out later”. This is in direct contradiction to those who reported to seeing plane parts, engine parts and landing gear.

I don't see the contadiction here - some see something, others don't.

dudalb · 22nd October 2007, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by pomeroo

No, what you are has nothing to do with truth. You are a fantasist, and you inhabit a realm outside reason and logic. Please try to understand, however, that there are no "disinfo agents." It's just loons disagreeing with other loons.

If every Truther spouting kooky ideas is a Government disinfo agent,then about 90% of the Truth Movement are working For the Government.

Marquis de Carabas · 22nd October 2007, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

If every Truther spouting kooky ideas is a Government disinfo agent,then about 90% of the Truth Movement are working For the Government.

And now you finally understand exactly how deep this conspiracy goes. By my count, it involves 6,626,284,768 people.

DavidJames · 22nd October 2007, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Marquis de Carabas

And now you finally understand exactly how deep this conspiracy goes. By my count, it involves 6,626,284,768 people.

Are you counting apacherose105, clearly, coming here trying to discredit parts of the CT movement proves they are also disinofo.

Marquis de Carabas · 22nd October 2007, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Are you counting apacherose105, clearly, coming here trying to discredit parts of the CT movement proves they are also disinofo.

I am counting every human being except myself.

It really hurts being left out, btw.

Mangoose · 22nd October 2007, 11:07 AM

Anyone notice that the site has a response to this thread?

Originally Posted by ChecktheEvidence

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=95998

pomeroo After a year of experiencing the 9/11 fantasy movement in its various guises, I still retain my initial amazement at the lengths to which some people will go to create an alternate reality. Here is a determined, if deranged, attempt to show that nobody actually saw planes hit the Towers:

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cm...=134&Itemid=60

Please note that he seriously (?) contends that there were 117 people close enough to be witnesses. What could persuade such a person that there were thousands?

Is this study above really "deranged"? The anonymous (as usual) person making this post takes the figure out of context and does not explain how the figure was determined. Nor does he discuss the quoted witness sample size of 291. A "deranged MS-Access Query"? Hmmm

Quad4_72 : How is a person raised up in such a way that all critical thinking and logic are just thrown out the door? Is it for attention purposes?

Never mind how I was raised (a little about which can be found if you poke round here) - what about the actual evidence? Critical thinking? Shouldn't it be based on criticising the evidence?

buka001 : Do any websites carry a decent list of witness accounts to the impacts on WTC.

HAd a troofer arguing that not a single person saw a plane hit the building.

This friendly critical thinker clearly didn't reach the table at the bottom, which contains a link to the report - which contains a table of witness account portions in the appendix - and a link to a zip file with all the accounts. If you want to find the truth, you actually have to work to dig it out, not just expect someone else to summarise it for you.

I hope that Mr James Randi is proud of the quality of friendly critical thinkers his forum attracts. For me, it's very educational - I hope that it is educational for others too!

14th October 2007, 07:42 PM	#1
pomeroo Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In a Little Cafe Just the Other Side of the Border Posts: 7,090	No Witnesses to Planes Hitting the WTC After a year of experiencing the 9/11 fantasy movement in its various guises, I still retain my initial amazement at the lengths to which some people will go to create an alternate reality. Here is a determined, if deranged, attempt to show that nobody actually saw planes hit the Towers: http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cm...=134&Itemid=60 Please note that he seriously (?) contends that there were 117 people close enough to be witnesses. What could persuade such a person that there were thousands?
	Last edited by pomeroo; 14th October 2007 at 07:48 PM.

14th October 2007, 08:02 PM	#2
The Doc Curing Stupidity Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,154	Originally Posted by pomeroo After a year of experiencing the 9/11 fantasy movement in its various guises, I still retain my initial amazement at the lengths to which some people will go to create an alternate reality. Here is a determined, if deranged, attempt to show that nobody actually saw planes hit the Towers: http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cm...=134&Itemid=60 Please note that he seriously (?) contends that there were 117 people close enough to be witnesses. What could persuade such a person that there were thousands? This guy can't be serious...?! There were 50,000 people in the buildings themselves. Not everyone who saw the plane can be interviewed on television for Christ's sake. The odd thing, though, is that the Pentagon no-planers will also dismiss this guy as crazy, without seeing the irony.
	__________________ Author - 9/11 Mysteries Viewer's Guide http://www.911mysteriesguide.com Creator - "Screw 9/11 Mysteries" http://video.google.com.au/videoplay...24912447824934

14th October 2007, 08:07 PM	#3
Quad4_72 AI-EE-YAH! Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,088	Originally Posted by pomeroo After a year of experiencing the 9/11 fantasy movement in its various guises, I still retain my initial amazement at the lengths to which some people will go to create an alternate reality. Here is a determined, if deranged, attempt to show that nobody actually saw planes hit the Towers: http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cm...=134&Itemid=60 Please note that he seriously (?) contends that there were 117 people close enough to be witnesses. What could persuade such a person that there were thousands? How is a person raised up in such a way that all critical thinking and logic are just thrown out the door? Is it for attention purposes?
Quad4_72 AI-EE-YAH! Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,088	__________________ Just say NO to twoofers

14th October 2007, 08:19 PM	#4
OldTigerCub Striped Shapeshifting Reptoid Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Steeler Nation, Pa. Posts: 1,621	Originally Posted by pomeroo After a year of experiencing the 9/11 fantasy movement in its various guises, I still retain my initial amazement at the lengths to which some people will go to create an alternate reality. Here is a determined, if deranged, attempt to show that nobody actually saw planes hit the Towers: http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cm...=134&Itemid=60 Please note that he seriously (?) contends that there were 117 people close enough to be witnesses. What could persuade such a person that there were thousands? Sheesh....This one seems to be really out there. From this quote in his publication where he cites being enlightened by Dr. Wood, it's apparent that he's a "space beamer": Quote: For quite some time, I was convinced that the mechanism of the destruction of WTC 1 & 2 had to be similar to controlled demolition – it was the only thing that could account for the near free-fall time of “collapse”. However, I have since been enlightened through the results of Dr Wood’s study – the overall evidence does not support the idea that controlled demolition was the primary method of destruction of the towers. In examining the witness accounts, I found quite a few where the collapse was described as possibly like the sound of an approaching plane or rocket. For example, from the account of Faisel Abed (File No: 9110071): Quote: You just heard this thrushing, thrushing noise like a rocket. I thought the building was under attack again. You just start seeing this smoke coming down. We just took off. We went north. We actually -- sorry, we went west. We went towards the river. All right. Then we just went towards the river and went up north a little bit behind the building. That was after the first one went down. He describes a continuous noise rather than lots of explosions going off. Let us not confuse this part of the account with those accounts of earlier explosions before the towers came down, rather than as they were coming down. The repeated sequence of timed explosions heard during a controlled demolition is very distinctive and none of the witness accounts I studied described hearing this sort of sound as the towers collapsed. After reading that, I need a beer....no make that 6 or 7 beers....
	__________________ "Nuts!" - General Anthony C. McAuliffe

14th October 2007, 08:35 PM	#5
Alareth Sarcasm Distribution System Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mississippi Posts: 4,387	Ace has relatives across the pond?
	__________________ Stellar Visions \| Stop Sylvia Browne \| Alareth Does Art! Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak "Hi mjd[1982]. Don't worry about breaking any news to us, you're really in very little danger of ever doing that." - Stellafane

14th October 2007, 11:17 PM	#6
pomeroo Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In a Little Cafe Just the Other Side of the Border Posts: 7,090	Originally Posted by Alareth Ace has relatives across the pond? Ace has relatives in the pond.

14th October 2007, 11:22 PM	#7
quixotecoyote Howling to glory I go Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 8,050	Originally Posted by pomeroo Ace has relatives in the pond. He made it out?
	__________________ If people needed video games to live, a national single payer plan to fund those purchases would be a great idea. Thank you for the avatar xkcd.

14th October 2007, 11:41 PM	#8
buka001 Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sunny South Africa Posts: 192	Do any websites carry a decent list of witness accounts to the impacts on WTC. HAd a troofer arguing that not a single person saw a plane hit the building.
	__________________ Only the dead have seen the end of war!

14th October 2007, 11:58 PM	#9
tacodaemon Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: DC Posts: 571	Originally Posted by Quad4_72 How is a person raised up in such a way that all critical thinking and logic are just thrown out the door? Is it for attention purposes? At a couple of points in that essay I thought this guy was getting pretty close to the conclusion that the WTC never existed in the first place.
	__________________ "Killtown, your brain is like the four headed, man-eating haddock fish beast of Aberdeen." - Fr Ted @ LCF

15th October 2007, 12:02 AM	#10
tacodaemon Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: DC Posts: 571	Originally Posted by OldTigerCub After reading that, I need a beer....no make that 6 or 7 beers.... For debunkers, the lack of any sound of demolition charges going off is a pretty clear sign that the collapses happened naturally as the structure failed. For this guy, the lack of any sound of demolition charges going off is a pretty clear sign that laser guns from outer space did it.
	__________________ "Killtown, your brain is like the four headed, man-eating haddock fish beast of Aberdeen." - Fr Ted @ LCF

15th October 2007, 12:21 AM	#11
Plantfoam Thinker Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 219	I'm pretty sure that termites brought the buildings down. No, I didn't misspell thermite.

15th October 2007, 01:03 AM	#12
MikeW Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,693	Some Flight 11 witnesses here Some Flight 175 witnesses here They're mostly people who saw the planes, though I've also included one or two accounts from people who only heard something.
MikeW Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,693

15th October 2007, 02:17 AM	#13
Magenta Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 948	Originally Posted by pomeroo After a year of experiencing the 9/11 fantasy movement in its various guises, I still retain my initial amazement at the lengths to which some people will go to create an alternate reality. Here is a determined, if deranged, attempt to show that nobody actually saw planes hit the Towers: http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cm...=134&Itemid=60 Please note that he seriously (?) contends that there were 117 people close enough to be witnesses. What could persuade such a person that there were thousands? He's restricted himself to the accounts of the first responders, not all of whom were in a position to see the planes hit. He breezily dismisses the video evidence: Quote: Overall, I conclude the descriptions of planes given by the witnesses do not give one any more confidence than the video material, such as that presented in the September Clues series, that large planes hit the towers. With something as unique as 9/11, it was easy to “sell” people the plane stories in the midst of such a terrible tragedy. What a muppet.

15th October 2007, 03:36 AM	#14
peteweaver Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1,000	I've known the niece of an eyewitness since 1981/ 82... Known her since I was 3. Her uncle (Paul Berriff) saw flight 175 crash into WTC2 with his own eyes. He was injured in the attack. He's also a film maker, though I doubt that truther's would be interested in his factual documentary about the firefighters, which does not promote conspiracy theories, but simply tells their story...

15th October 2007, 04:18 AM	#15
pomeroo Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In a Little Cafe Just the Other Side of the Border Posts: 7,090	Originally Posted by peteweaver I've known the niece of an eyewitness since 1981/ 82... Known her since I was 3. Her uncle (Paul Berriff) saw flight 175 crash into WTC2 with his own eyes. He was injured in the attack. He's also a film maker, though I doubt that truther's would be interested in his factual documentary about the firefighters, which does not promote conspiracy theories, but simply tells their story... See Morgan Reynolds's challenge to JREFers in the thread "Morgan Reynolds Responds to Greening." This no-plane nonsense is his baby.

15th October 2007, 10:08 AM	#16
apacherose105 Student Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 34	Misinformation agents..... 99.99% of people who question the official story will tell you that this is misinformation also. This should be a no brainer.
apacherose105 Student Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 34

15th October 2007, 10:20 AM	#17
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 16,307	Originally Posted by peteweaver ... He's also a film maker, though I doubt that truther's would be interested in his factual documentary about the firefighters, which does not promote conspiracy theories, but simply tells their story... Pete? What is the name of this film? I would love to see it. Thanks!
	__________________ You are very model of a modern climate "truther" shill, You've information oceanic, atmospheric, and whimsical, You know the dates of freezups, and you deny the temps historical, From Svalbard to Point Barrow, deny them categorical, You're passingly acquainted, too, with matters mathematical, You misunderstand equations, both the simple and quadratical, About climatic integration You're teeming with a lot o' news, With many cheerful facts at odds with better-informed views.

15th October 2007, 10:33 AM	#18
Bell beautiful freak Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 9,448	Originally Posted by BenBurch Pete? What is the name of this film? I would love to see it. Thanks! I did a quick search on Google: http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcas...762573,00.html Wow...
	__________________ I♥NY You gotta love cops. "Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th; malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists, themselves, away from the guilty." (President George W. Bush)

15th October 2007, 12:08 PM	#19
WilliamSeger Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 256	There were no witnesses, because all the witnesses who saw the plane are lying. There is no evidence of a plane at all, because all that evidence was faked. This would be simple to prove except all the real evidence has been covered-up, and why would there be a cover-up if there wasn't a conspiracy? Q.E.D.

15th October 2007, 12:22 PM	#20
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 18,976	Originally Posted by WilliamSeger There were no witnesses, because all the witnesses who saw the plane are lying. There is no evidence of a plane at all, because all that evidence was faked. This would be simple to prove except all the real evidence has been covered-up, and why would there be a cover-up if there wasn't a conspiracy? Q.E.D. I originally had 4 headbanging icons here, then when I realized who posted, I realized the sarcasm...lol TAM
	__________________ "Angry Young Man!" - The truth movement in a phrase, by O&A "His fists in the air, his head in the sand" - Angry Young Man, Billy Joel An English Professor that knew 9/11 from the Truth Movement quotes would conclude that hyperbole, simile, and metaphor caused the towers to collapse. - BigAl

15th October 2007, 02:17 PM	#21
uk_dave Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,081	Quote: You just heard this thrushing, thrushing noise like a rocket. I thought the building was under attack again. You just start seeing this smoke coming down. We just took off. We went north. We actually -- sorry, we went west. We went towards the river. All right. Then we just went towards the river and went up north a little bit behind the building. That was after the first one went down. It was a yeast infection? Case solved.
uk_dave Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,081

16th October 2007, 08:36 AM	#22
BigAl Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,574	Originally Posted by buka001 Do any websites carry a decent list of witness accounts to the impacts on WTC. This book has lots of stories of people in the buildings. 102 Minutes by Dwyer & Flynn
BigAl Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,574

16th October 2007, 08:38 AM	#23
nicepants Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,703	Originally Posted by The Doc This guy can't be serious...?! There were 50,000 people in the buildings themselves. Not everyone who saw the plane can be interviewed on television for Christ's sake. The odd thing, though, is that the Pentagon no-planers will also dismiss this guy as crazy, without seeing the irony. Dylan got particularly upset when Killtown relayed that sentiment during an on-air debate. It was funny to hear one CTer telling another CTer that he's "got to back his statements up with fact". I got 2000% of my Recommended Daily Irony during that show.
	__________________ Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen -Einstein #4 on the CIT Enemies List

16th October 2007, 03:32 PM	#24
MIKILLINI Incromulent Logic Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Illini State Posts: 1,959	I think that if you took those who believe there were no planes and those who believe the planes were remote-controlled and put them in the same room, both sides wouldn't come to any logical realization, except, maybe, each respective side would believe they are more right than the other.
	__________________ Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense. The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo Sylvia Browne is not a medium, she's a mediocre.

16th October 2007, 07:36 PM	#25
firecoins Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nyack, NY Posts: 3,126	I know people who saw at least one of the two planes hit the towers. Some of the videotape of 175 hitting was that of normal people with videocameras. Tens of thousands of people saw the plane in person. They are all in on it.
	__________________ NY Paramedic, skeptic, 9/11/01 Reality-ist. I am both right wing nut and left wing lunatic. Deal with it.

16th October 2007, 09:41 PM	#26
MIKILLINI Incromulent Logic Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Illini State Posts: 1,959	Originally Posted by firecoins I know people who saw at least one of the two planes hit the towers. Some of the videotape of 175 hitting was that of normal people with videocameras. Tens of thousands of people saw the plane in person. They are all in on it. Which means they are all guilty, as charged, of witnessing an actual event. [Truther logic] Isn't there a law against that? [truther logic]
	__________________ Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense. The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo Sylvia Browne is not a medium, she's a mediocre.

22nd October 2007, 09:37 AM	#27
apacherose105 Student Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 34	I'm a truther. I don't know anyone else that believes this no-plane l***. I think it's misinformation.
apacherose105 Student Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 34	Last edited by chillzero; 22nd October 2007 at 12:08 PM. Reason: Edited masked profanity to meet forum standards

22nd October 2007, 09:40 AM	#28
Arus808 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,340	Originally Posted by apacherose105 I'm a truther. I don't know anyone else that believes this no-plane ********. I think it's misinformation. Unfortunately, it is not misinformation. it is the belief of several of your respected members of the 911 denial movement.
Arus808 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,340	__________________ Back home with a new sunburn...I look like a tomato. “Life may begin at 30, but it doesn’t get real interesting until about 150.” “Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.”

22nd October 2007, 09:41 AM	#29
uk_dave Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,081	Originally Posted by apacherose105 I'm a truther. I don't know anyone else that believes this no-plane ********. I think it's misinformation. Welcome to the forum. Why must it be mis(dis?)information? Can't some people in the 'truth' movement be mentally unwell?
uk_dave Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,081

22nd October 2007, 09:53 AM	#30
SpaceMonkeyZero Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: hi Barb!!!!! Posts: 1,287	Originally Posted by apacherose105 I'm a truther. I don't know anyone else that believes this no-plane *****. I think it's misinformation. So does that mean you believe in remote controlled planes? Or that the "hijackers" were US Black Ops on a suicide mission? Or that rather than just shred evidence of knowing about the plot months before 9/11, perform a CD of WTC 7, where this evidence just so happened to be kept? Which is it? Let me guess what you will say: "I don't know, but I sure don't believe the OCT"
	__________________ "NOBODY expects the Truther Movement! Our chief weapon is speculation, speculation and conjecture, conjecture and speculation. Our two weapons are conjecture and speculation, and youtube videos. Our three weapons are conjecture, speculation, and youtube videos, and an almost fanatical devotion to the "Truth". Our four. No. Amongst our weapons. Amongst our weaponry, are such elements as conjecture, speculation." Last edited by chillzero; 22nd October 2007 at 12:08 PM. Reason: quoted post was edited

22nd October 2007, 10:04 AM	#31
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,064	Originally Posted by apacherose105 I'm a truther. I don't know anyone else that believes this no-plane *****. I think it's misinformation. Welcome to the forums, apacherose. Don't forget that, as mentioned above, there are many truthers (although their numbers seem to be dwindling) who don't think a plane hit the Pentagon or crashed in Pennsylvania. They are every bit as kooky as the WTC no-planers. Please cut out the "misinformation" paranoia, and face the fact that some people are just stupid or cruel or delusional or all of the above.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links Last edited by chillzero; 22nd October 2007 at 12:09 PM. Reason: quoted post was edited

22nd October 2007, 10:18 AM	#32
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,817	Originally Posted by apacherose105 I'm a truther. I don't know anyone else that believes this no-plane ***. I think it's misinformation. Judy Wood, Uncle Fetzer, Morgan Reynolds and Killtown were all respected members of your movement at one time or another. So what's the lesson here? Don't team up with lunatics and then act surprised when they say loony things.**
	Last edited by chillzero; 22nd October 2007 at 12:10 PM. Reason: quoted post was edited

22nd October 2007, 10:20 AM	#33
pomeroo Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In a Little Cafe Just the Other Side of the Border Posts: 7,090	Originally Posted by Gravy Welcome to the forums, apacherose. Don't forget that, as mentioned above, there are many truthers (although their numbers seem to be dwindling) who don't think a plane hit the Pentagon or crashed in Pennsylvania. They are every bit as kooky as the WTC no-planers. Please cut out the "misinformation" paranoia, and face the fact that some people are just stupid or cruel or delusional or all of the above. Deleted
	Last edited by pomeroo; 22nd October 2007 at 10:22 AM. Reason: I replied to the wrong post

22nd October 2007, 10:24 AM	#34
pomeroo Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In a Little Cafe Just the Other Side of the Border Posts: 7,090	Originally Posted by apacherose105 I'm a truther. I don't know anyone else that believes this no-plane *****. I think it's misinformation. No, what you are has nothing to do with truth. You are a fantasist, and you inhabit a realm outside reason and logic. Please try to understand, however, that there are no "disinfo agents." It's just loons disagreeing with other loons.
	Last edited by chillzero; 22nd October 2007 at 12:11 PM. Reason: quoted post was edited

22nd October 2007, 10:38 AM	#35
The Pig Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 145	Quote: A number of witnesses reported that they didn’t realize that the second impact was that of a plane – many of them “found out later”. This is in direct contradiction to those who reported to seeing plane parts, engine parts and landing gear. I don't see the contadiction here - some see something, others don't.
The Pig Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 145	__________________ "Gentlemen, welcome to Robot Club. The first rule of Robot Club is, you do not talk about about Robot Club. The second rule of Robot Club is, YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT RO... wait, I got that wrong... The second rule is, no smoking." - Spaced