IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 4th December 2012, 10:31 PM   #441
AdMan
Penultimate Amazing
 
AdMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 10,293
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
I don't know how you can even make a comparison. Carl Sagan was talking about radio signal contact. I am talking about intergalactic travel. We are visions apart.

You have made some pretty idiotic statements about what you believe in this thread, and they have been related to space travel and the existence of extraterrestrial life. If you don't see the relation to your statements on Carl Sagan, then your posts are even more worthless.
__________________
As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.
- Voltaire.
AdMan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th December 2012, 10:33 PM   #442
R.A.F.
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,201
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
What is there to be ashamed of?
Misrepresenting the opinions of a dead man makes you the lowest form of troll.
R.A.F. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th December 2012, 10:37 PM   #443
justintime
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,260
Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
I think they do the scientific method in mathematics as well:

confront problem, form hypothesis of equation to solve problem, test hypothesis by completing equation, analyze results to see why the answer does or does not solve the problem.

so neener
I know they use mathematical modelling as part of the scientific method in experimental sciences (chemistry, biology and physics)
justintime is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th December 2012, 10:43 PM   #444
Mashuna
Ovis ex Machina
 
Mashuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sir Ddinbych
Posts: 7,001
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
Get another mechanic. Why pay for a total analysis of the problem when all you only want it to have your car fixed and a mechanic who knows how to fix it. I am sure a scientist can also fix your car using his scientific method. How much are you willing to pay him to get it fixed.
Yes, I agree. Like you, I also prefer to use either magic or machine psychic mechanics who just know what's wrong without having to waste time with all that pesky examination and testing. I can then also save money by paying them with magic beans.
Mashuna is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th December 2012, 10:50 PM   #445
justintime
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,260
Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
If you are trying to say that Sagan believed in alien flying saucers visiting Earth right now, then I have no "difficulity" calling you a bald faced LIAR.


Do yourself a "favor" and stop being stupid.
Why do you have to make up things? Carl Sagan was obsessed with flying saucers and aliens. Read his biography. It is well documented. Proof of his obsession. He spent 50 years looking for them. The program was called SETI.

Here is what Carl Sagan said about UFOs
Quote:
Or take UFOS, the contention that beings in spaceships from other worlds are visiting us all the time. I find that a thrilling idea. It's at least a break from the ordinary. I've spent a fair amount of time in my scientific life working on the issue of the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. Think how much effort I could save if those guys are coming here.
You can clearly see he wished they had so he could stop looking for them.
justintime is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th December 2012, 10:53 PM   #446
justintime
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,260
Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
Misrepresenting the opinions of a dead man makes you the lowest form of troll.
What if Carl Sagan misrepresented himself?
justintime is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th December 2012, 10:55 PM   #447
AdMan
Penultimate Amazing
 
AdMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 10,293
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
Why do you have to make up things? Carl Sagan was obsessed with flying saucers and aliens. Read his biography. It is well documented. Proof of his obsession. He spent 50 years looking for them. The program was called SETI.

Here is what Carl Sagan said about UFOs


You can clearly see he wished they had so he could stop looking for them.

You should do some more reading. Reposting again, since you obviously missed it.

Originally Posted by AdMan View Post

Another quote from Sagan--this time from Cosmos--showing how wrong you are (highlight added):

Quote:
In the Milky Way Galaxy there must be many planets millions of years older than Earth, and some that are billions of years older. Should we not have been visited? In all the billions of years since the origin of our planet, has there not been even once a strange craft from a distant civilization surveying our world from above, and slowly settling down to the surface to be observed by iridescent dragonflies, incurious reptiles, screeching primates or wondering humans? The idea is natural enough. It has occurred to everyone who has contemplated, even casually, the question of intelligent life in the universe. But has it happened in fact? The critical issue is the quality of the purported evidence, rigorously and skeptically scrutinized - not what sounds plausible, not the unsubstantiated testimony of one or two self-professed eyewitnesses. By this standard there are no compelling cases of extraterrestrial visitation, despite all the claims about UFOs and ancient astronauts which sometimes make it seem that our planet is awash in uninvited guests.

By the way, can you tell us more about those Mayan encounters with aliens you believe happened?
__________________
As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.
- Voltaire.
AdMan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th December 2012, 11:03 PM   #448
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive
Co-Ordinator,
Russell's Antinomy
 
Slowvehicle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: ...1888 miles from home by the shortest route without tolls...
Posts: 17,348
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
What if Carl Sagan misrepresented himself?
You have made a sensation of lying about what Dr. Sagan actually said, Rocket-Boy. What shred of evidence do you have that Dr. Sagan "misrepresented himself"? More "evidence" from the tabloids?

What is it like to exist without shame?
__________________
"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest
"The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David
"Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze
Slowvehicle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th December 2012, 11:18 PM   #449
The Man
Unbanned zombie poster
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 18,384
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
What if Carl Sagan misrepresented himself?
He's dead, I expect such a further misrepresentation, much as a further representation, can't be enacted by him other than already done.

What if you have simply misrepresented him? Perhaps you expect to take the mantle of representing him? Either way he's still just dead and all that's enacted here is still just you. Do with that what you will.
__________________
BRAINZZZZZZZZ
The Man is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th December 2012, 11:30 PM   #450
LashL
Goddess of Legaltainment™
 
LashL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 36,472
Mod WarningI have moved a bunch of posts to Abandon All Hope. Please, stop the personalization, bickering, and name-calling. Be civil, and stick to the topic of the thread - which is not other members. Also, do not import arguments from other forums. Thank you advance for your anticipated cooperation.
Responding to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By:LashL

Last edited by LashL; 4th December 2012 at 11:51 PM.
LashL is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th December 2012, 11:53 PM   #451
AdMan
Penultimate Amazing
 
AdMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 10,293
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
What if Carl Sagan misrepresented himself?

If he did, how did Carl Sagan misrepresent himself, justin?
__________________
As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.
- Voltaire.
AdMan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th December 2012, 11:53 PM   #452
justintime
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,260
Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Thats around 10.5 post per day. What a madman!

Of course, justintime started posting around 33 hours ago and is up to 59 posts as I type this. Even if he stopped now he'd have an average of 43 posts per day.
I don't generally post that much. I took on a dead thread and made something out of it.
justintime is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th December 2012, 11:57 PM   #453
AdMan
Penultimate Amazing
 
AdMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 10,293
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
I don't generally post that much. I took on a dead thread and made something out of it.
So why did you think it was worth making a big deal about someone posting less than you did?
__________________
As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.
- Voltaire.
AdMan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 12:01 AM   #454
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,302
justintime

The Mayans did not report encounters with extraterrestrials. It was the fraudster Erich von Daniken who proposed this, based on his somewhat unique and misguided interpretation of certain Mayan artefacts.

As far as Carl Sagan goes, I challenge you to find (name/link) any reference material from a reliable, scholarly source that he was obsessed with UFOs beyond his teenage and young adult years.
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!!
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 12:04 AM   #455
justintime
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,260
Originally Posted by AdMan View Post
If he did, how did Carl Sagan misrepresent himself, justin?
His biography mentions the balancing act he had to maintain between his public and private beliefs. UFOs enthusiast could not understand why he was looking for aliens everywhere but HERE.

He never said anything in the affirmative. So one could take it either way. Example. He would go into great details about UFOs but then conclude there was no evidence and therefore not believable. It is best to read his biographies and draw your own conclusions.
justintime is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 12:09 AM   #456
AdMan
Penultimate Amazing
 
AdMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 10,293
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
He never said anything in the affirmative. So one could take it either way. Example. He would go into great details about UFOs but then conclude there was no evidence and therefore not believable. It is best to read his biographies and draw your own conclusions.

Yeah, right... citation, please. Have you actually read Sagan's quotes above?

I call BS.

And I may remind everyone that justintime has no credibility. He doesn't understand interstellar travel and thinks the Mayans were visited by aliens.
__________________
As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.
- Voltaire.
AdMan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 12:33 AM   #457
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
I don't generally post that much. I took on a dead thread and made something out of it.
It's inconvenient when facts get in the way of what you'd like to believe, isn't it?
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 12:38 AM   #458
justintime
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,260
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
justintime

The Mayans did not report encounters with extraterrestrials. It was the fraudster Erich von Daniken who proposed this, based on his somewhat unique and misguided interpretation of certain Mayan artefacts.

As far as Carl Sagan goes, I challenge you to find (name/link) any reference material from a reliable, scholarly source that he was obsessed with UFOs beyond his teenage and young adult years.
Maybe you should read the link about Mayan encounters with Aliens.
http://weeklyworldnews.com/aliens/38...t-with-aliens/

How do you separate Carl Sagan fascination with aliens and flying saucers at 17 and his continued interest in looking for them for the next 50 years. That by any definition is an obsession. Whether it was alien visiting earth or aliens in some remote planet. It was aliens all the same.

If he switched his career to looking for gold instead we can say he got over his obsession. But he did not.

We are not talking about evidence of UFOs or aliens because neither have been found. We are talking about his obsession with them because he carried it throughout his life. All he ever talked about were aliens.
justintime is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 12:42 AM   #459
justintime
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,260
Originally Posted by AdMan View Post
Yeah, right... citation, please. Have you actually read Sagan's quotes above?

I call BS.

And I may remind everyone that justintime has no credibility. He doesn't understand interstellar travel and thinks the Mayans were visited by aliens.
Then you must have missed it. Someone posted a link to his quotes. I also provided links to Mayan Alien encounter claims. You can even google for both.
justintime is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 12:46 AM   #460
AdMan
Penultimate Amazing
 
AdMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 10,293
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
Maybe you should read the link about Mayan encounters with Aliens.
http://weeklyworldnews.com/aliens/38...t-with-aliens/

How do you separate Carl Sagan fascination with aliens and flying saucers at 17 and his continued interest in looking for them for the next 50 years. That by any definition is an obsession. Whether it was alien visiting earth or aliens in some remote planet. It was aliens all the same.

If he switched his career to looking for gold instead we can say he got over his obsession. But he did not.

We are not talking about evidence of UFOs or aliens because neither have been found. We are talking about his obsession with them because he carried it throughout his life. All he ever talked about were aliens.
You don't know what you are talking about and you have absolutely no credibility in this thread.

Or have you given up you belief in intergalactic rocketships and Mayans being visited by aliens?

You know virtually nothing of the universe compared to Carl Sagan. Your opinion is crap, as demonstrated in this thread.

Prove me wrong.
__________________
As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.
- Voltaire.

Last edited by AdMan; 5th December 2012 at 12:50 AM.
AdMan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 12:51 AM   #461
justintime
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,260
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It's inconvenient when facts get in the way of what you'd like to believe, isn't it?
I am sorry if the facts don't turn out the way you like it. I don't have any problems with the facts I present because I know why I present them.
justintime is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 12:54 AM   #462
AdMan
Penultimate Amazing
 
AdMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 10,293
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
I also provided links to Mayan Alien encounter claims.
Your acceptance of this nonsense shows how you are anything but skeptical. No genuine skeptic would accept this without question as you apparently have.
__________________
As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.
- Voltaire.
AdMan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 12:57 AM   #463
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 16,140
The defining characteristic of sceptics is that they look at the evidence before deciding what to (provisionally) believe. A creationist could describe himself as an evolution sceptic, but that wouldn't make him one. Likewise climate change "sceptics" are people who deny overwhelming evidence in order to continue to believe what they want to believe - the very opposite of sceptics.

Justin needs to distinguish between pseudosceptics and genuine sceptics. Some of what he says may well be true of pseudosceptics, but it certainly isn't true of real sceptics.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 12:57 AM   #464
justintime
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,260
Originally Posted by AdMan View Post
So why did you think it was worth making a big deal about someone posting less than you did?
I am aware I have posted way beyond my usual. But when one is having fun. Hey, why not?
justintime is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 01:04 AM   #465
justintime
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,260
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
The defining characteristic of sceptics is that they look at the evidence before deciding what to (provisionally) believe. A creationist could describe himself as an evolution sceptic, but that wouldn't make him one. Likewise climate change "sceptics" are people who deny overwhelming evidence in order to continue to believe what they want to believe - the very opposite of sceptics.

Justin needs to distinguish between pseudosceptics and genuine sceptics. Some of what he says may well be true of pseudosceptics, but it certainly isn't true of real sceptics.
People believe only what they want to believe and that goes for skeptics too.
justintime is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 01:06 AM   #466
AdMan
Penultimate Amazing
 
AdMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 10,293
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
I am aware I have posted way beyond my usual. But when one is having fun. Hey, why not?
Or maybe when you are making a fool of yourself?
__________________
As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.
- Voltaire.
AdMan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 01:08 AM   #467
The Man
Unbanned zombie poster
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 18,384
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
Maybe you should read the link about Mayan encounters with Aliens.
http://weeklyworldnews.com/aliens/38...t-with-aliens/
So are you claiming that Mayans did encounter "Aliens"?

Originally Posted by justintime View Post
How do you separate Carl Sagan fascination with aliens and flying saucers at 17 and his continued interest in looking for them for the next 50 years. That by any definition is an obsession. Whether it was alien visiting earth or aliens in some remote planet. It was aliens all the same.
"aliens all the same" indeed, but "flying saucers" where exactly was he looking for them "for the next 50 years"? Why do you equate the two?

Originally Posted by justintime View Post

If he switched his career to looking for gold instead we can say he got over his obsession. But he did not.
Wouldn't just spending his entire "career to looking for gold instead" be "his obsession" then?

Originally Posted by justintime View Post
We are not talking about evidence of UFOs or aliens because neither have been found. We are talking about his obsession with them because he carried it throughout his life. All he ever talked about were aliens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sa...entific_career

PhD in astronomy and astrophysics in 1960 and a thesis on the origins of life with physical chemist H. C. Urey after working in the laboratory of the geneticist H. J. Muller, surely "UFOs or aliens" must have been "All he ever talked about".
__________________
BRAINZZZZZZZZ

Last edited by The Man; 5th December 2012 at 01:37 AM. Reason: typo
The Man is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 01:11 AM   #468
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 16,140
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
People believe only what they want to believe and that goes for skeptics too.
I'd love to believe in the paranormal, an afterlife, all sorts of things, but I don't because there's no evidence for them.

Sceptics have the same human needs as everyone else but they make a conscious effort to recognise and allow for their own biases in order to find out what's really true. It's hard, and we all fail occasionally, but at least we try.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 01:30 AM   #469
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
I don't have any problems with the facts I present because I know why I present them.
You're going to start presenting facts? That'll be nice. I'll look forwards to it.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 01:36 AM   #470
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 38,373
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
Why do you have to make up things? Carl Sagan was obsessed with flying saucers and aliens. Read his biography. It is well documented. Proof of his obsession. He spent 50 years looking for them. The program was called SETI.

Here is what Carl Sagan said about UFOs

Quote:
Or take UFOS, the contention that beings in spaceships from other worlds are visiting us all the time. I find that a thrilling idea. It's at least a break from the ordinary. I've spent a fair amount of time in my scientific life working on the issue of the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. Think how much effort I could save if those guys are coming here.

You can clearly see he wished they had so he could stop looking for them.

Go to a dictionary, and look up the meaning of the word "if".
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 01:40 AM   #471
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 38,373
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
What if Carl Sagan misrepresented himself?

I think that's number 29, and 30 points.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 01:47 AM   #472
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 38,373
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
It is beginning to look as if it is you, not Sagan, who believes we have been visited by alien spacecraft.

Not true.

If you're going to claim that you don't believe that we've been visited by aliens, you really shouldn't claim that we've been visited by aliens. Especially not in the same thread.
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
Maybe you should read the link about Mayan encounters with Aliens.
http://weeklyworldnews.com/aliens/38...t-with-aliens/
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 01:58 AM   #473
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 38,373
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
I first defined the Skeptic...

The "Skeptic" you defined was a strawman.

Quote:
...and then provided cause for his fears (doubts, uncertainty and insecurity) which built the case for panic and fear. For good measure I even located the seat of fear in the Skeptic brain.

But you didn't manage to link the two because your claim about skeptics wasn't included in your source, although you pretended it was.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 02:10 AM   #474
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 38,373
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
Get another mechanic. Why pay for a total analysis of the problem when all you only want it to have your car fixed and a mechanic who knows how to fix it. I am sure a scientist can also fix your car using his scientific method. How much are you willing to pay him to get it fixed.

...and the "why are there no alternative car mechanics" analogy that people sometimes use when arguing with CAMsters fails, because there really is someone who believes in alternative car mechanics.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 02:13 AM   #475
Mashuna
Ovis ex Machina
 
Mashuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sir Ddinbych
Posts: 7,001
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
...and the "why are there no alternative car mechanics" analogy that people sometimes use when arguing with CAMsters fails, because there really is someone who believes in alternative car mechanics.
They sprinkle special herbs in my fuel tank that increases my mileage! As long as I drive at 56mph on long journeys, they work like magic.
Mashuna is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 02:30 AM   #476
StankApe
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,628
I get the impression that he thinks the scientific method can't be accomplished without lab coats, flasks,beakers and lots of colorful fluids and smoke.
StankApe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 03:18 AM   #477
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 38,373
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
1. What can be more irrational than looking for aliens without a spacecraft that could reach them.

Oh well, there goes most of astronomy.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 03:20 AM   #478
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 16,392
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
UFOs enthusiast could not understand why he was looking for aliens everywhere but HERE.
Sounds like they never read what he wrote on the subject, or were too stupid to grasp it.

Originally Posted by justintime View Post
All he ever talked about were aliens.
Sounds like you never read his work either.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 04:28 AM   #479
Acleron
Master Poster
 
Acleron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,290
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
Foster Zygote you are disappointing me.
Let us try again.

Definition of Scientist: A person having expert knowledge of one or more sciences, especially a natural or physical science.

Scientific method : Mathematical and experimental techniques employed in the natural sciences.

Natural science definition:A branch of science that deals with the physical world, e.g., physics, chemistry, geology, and biology.

Is a mechanic a scientist. I don`t think so by that definition.
Is this the application of logic that philosophers are proud to tell us achieves something or other?
Acleron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th December 2012, 04:48 AM   #480
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,302
Originally Posted by justintime View Post
Maybe you should read the link about Mayan encounters with Aliens.
http://weeklyworldnews.com/aliens/38...t-with-aliens/
I said a scholarly source (such as New Scientist, Scientific American, the American Journal of Archaeology, Nature, the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Proceedings of the Royal Society, Science; even the Christian Science Monitor); genuine, reliable and trustworthy sources that carry "peer-reviewed" articles not the unbridled speculation and fabricated pseudo-science that is prevalent in the sensationalist gutter press you have cited here.

Quote:
How do you separate Carl Sagan fascination with aliens and flying saucers at 17 and his continued interest in looking for them for the next 50 years.
I had a fascination with aliens when I was 17, and now I'm 57 and I have my computers (all 10 of them) signed up to BOINC programmes; SETI@Home, Rosetta and Einstein. I guess you would regard me as obsessed with aliens, the human genome and gravitational waves.

Quote:
That by any definition is an obsession. Whether it was alien visiting earth or aliens in some remote planet. It was aliens all the same.
No, by YOUR definition, that is obsession. I prefer to use definitions that are well understood among the remaining members of humanity

"OBSESSION: a persistent, disturbing, single-minded preoccupation with an unreasonable idea, to the exclusion of everything else"


Quote:
If he switched his career to looking for gold instead we can say he got over his obsession. But he did not.

We are not talking about evidence of UFOs or aliens because neither have been found. We are talking about his obsession with them because he carried it throughout his life.
So he carried an interest throughout his life, but that doesn't mean he was obsessed with it. You appear to be more obsessed with him, that he was with UFO's

If he had any obsession at all, it was that he was worried that we were heading down the path to self destruction. The "Pale Blue Dot" was not just a catchphrase, it had real meaning for him.

Quote:
All he ever talked about were aliens.
How little you have read of his works if that is what you think?


Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
If you're going to claim that you don't believe that we've been visited by aliens, you really shouldn't claim that we've been visited by aliens. Especially not in the same thread.
Ooohh, that exposed him somewhat cruelly.

Wait for the handwave now!!
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!!

Last edited by smartcooky; 5th December 2012 at 04:52 AM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:17 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.