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6th December 2012, 12:19 AM | #601 |
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6th December 2012, 01:41 AM | #602 |
Now. Do it now.
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Last edited by MikeG; 6th December 2012 at 01:43 AM. Reason: changed my mind........I can't be bothered |
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6th December 2012, 04:26 AM | #603 |
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So the OPs sum total of knowledge about Carl Sagan is stuff dredged up on the internet and not based on any reading of his books, or any first hand knowledge at all about his life and work.
How bogus can you get..... |
6th December 2012, 07:41 AM | #604 |
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I hope to be more diligent and provide more specificity to bring home my message. Why you might not be a Skeptic but a very insecure individual.
I begin with the best known Skeptic of our times Carl Sagan. He advocated scientific skepticism and denounced the irrational beliefs of those who were buried in superstitions. I am basing my research on Carl Sagans biographies and using his own words to support my conclusions. Your comments are welcomed. Was Carl Sagan a Skeptic or just an insecure individual.
Quote:
Is that the only hint of his inferiority complex and insecurity in himself and the entire human race? We know he searched for Extraterrestrial intelligence through his SETI program which just celebrated its 50th Anniversary. In his own words he describes just how tiny and insignificant we are in the vastness of the cosmos. How he believes there are older and wiser civilizations out there and justifies searching for them. He also holds in contempt human intelligence and the self destructive nature of man borne out of ignorance and misguided purpose. That we might be spared our self destruction by seeking those distant planets of older and wiser civilizations. Space Engine: A Cosmic Voyage (Feat. Carl Sagan) in his own words. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU0e_...ature=youtu.be There is that possibility that Carl Sagan was truly a Skeptic and that might be true of many here. I have considered that as well and am working on my next OP. Why you might be a Skeptics and an insecure individual too. |
6th December 2012, 07:57 AM | #605 |
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6th December 2012, 07:57 AM | #606 |
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Carl Sagan definitly was
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6th December 2012, 08:03 AM | #607 |
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The Arecibo message sent by the Arecibo radio telescope in 1974
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1975Icar...26..462. The Arecibo message of November, 1974 Icarus, vol. 26, Dec. 1975, p. 462-466. On November 16, 1974, the Arecibo Observatory transmitted at 2380 MHz at an effective bandwidth of 10 Hz a message directed at the globular cluster M13. The message consists of a 1679-bit picture portraying a counting scheme, five biologically significant atoms (H, C, O, N, and P), the generic structure of the four purines and pyrimidine bases of DNA; a schematic of the DNA double helix with an order-of-magnitude estimate of the number of base pairs; a representation of a human being and his or her dimensions; a depiction of the solar system with an indication that human beings inhabit the third planet and an estimate of the human population of the earth; and finally, a schematic representation of the Arecibo Observatory and a description of its dimensions. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...essage.svg.png |
6th December 2012, 08:05 AM | #608 |
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Two things:
1. You really ought to read Dr. Sagan's own writings before you pretend to be able to analyze, or criticize, what Dr. Sagan said...that way you do not look as if you are so insecure that you have to raise up a second-hand hearsay strawman imitation of him in order to be able to pretend to smite it... 2. As a clarification, in your opinion, are there differences among "being a Skeptic", "being a skeptic", "being skeptical", and "applying skeptical reasoning to scientific thought"? Or is this another place where you will deny nuance in order to escape the actual meaning of the things you say? |
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6th December 2012, 08:06 AM | #609 |
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I relied not only on Carl Sagan's biographies but also researched what he actually said. He had several positions on UFOs and offered several explanations while making sure we all understood that only the credible evidence was lacking. Just as his SETI project was to look for ETI. It would be the evidence that would finally prove they exist. For all his billions and billions of possibilities and probabilities he still had to deliver the evidence for the billions or rational people and billions of believers (as in religious believers).
Michael Shermer cites only 55,000 skeptic subscribers for his Skeptics Magazine. Skeptic movement claims only 1 million skeptics. But there are billions of rational people and billions of believers (religious) who were not convinced Carl Sagan would find ETI and were proven right. Carl Sagan on advanced civilizations visting Earth (Carl Sagan at one point suggest they might even be HERE and hiding). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOcfCkUBsdc |
6th December 2012, 08:08 AM | #610 |
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Carl Sagan's main work and focus of his career WAS NOT the search for ETI, again you ignore this, his main focus was space exploration, ETI was jut one strand of his work and NOT the CORE one.
Ad again you ignore the fact thathe only ever saw it as a POSSIBILITY and NOT A FACT, he never stated it was proved fact during his professional life. |
6th December 2012, 08:12 AM | #611 |
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I can categorically state that my penis is tiny and insignificant in the vastness of the cosmos. Doesn't make me insecure though.
All of the above and the rest of your post is completely irrelevant though because you can't use ONE person to draw conclusions about the group they belong to. That's not me telling you you can't, it's all the forces of logic and reason. You can only continue your battle against these forces by moving further away from Right and deeper into the pit of Wrong. |
6th December 2012, 08:13 AM | #612 |
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6th December 2012, 08:18 AM | #613 |
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6th December 2012, 08:22 AM | #614 |
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6th December 2012, 08:23 AM | #615 |
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6th December 2012, 08:23 AM | #616 |
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6th December 2012, 08:27 AM | #617 |
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What makes you think that being insecure and sceptic is at most improbable? You seem annoyed to have found counterexamples preventing you to claim that it is impossible for those to coexist in the same person. What's your real point here? If "true" sceptics don't exist then evolution is a myth? The insecurity that makes you believe in a god is better than alleged Sagan's (which makes him believe in.... nothing)? Why?
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6th December 2012, 08:29 AM | #618 |
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Why don't you watch and enjoy the video. Why he constantly refers to ETI as advanced civilizations. What evidence did he have they even existed let alone they were intelligent? All his work was just based on conjectures. He was obsessed with flying saucers and aliens and attributed the same advanced technology to extraterrestrial beings.
Carl Sagan on advanced civilizations visting Earth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOcfCkUBsdc |
6th December 2012, 08:30 AM | #619 |
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6th December 2012, 08:32 AM | #620 |
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6th December 2012, 08:33 AM | #621 |
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6th December 2012, 08:35 AM | #622 |
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This broad cast was full of, IF, POSSIBLE, MAYBE, and NOT IS and ARE.
And there is NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE Aliens have visted here. You missed that too. He is speculating. not stating any facts. You obviously did not listen to what he said. Once again you have failed to misrepresent what Dr Sagan was acutally saying |
6th December 2012, 08:35 AM | #623 |
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6th December 2012, 08:36 AM | #624 |
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If this thread's just going to be talking about Sagan now, then should we ask the mods to merge them both?
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6th December 2012, 08:38 AM | #625 |
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6th December 2012, 08:41 AM | #626 |
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Yes, that only proves Carl Sagan was never sure of anything and that comes across clearly in most of his videos. If you add all the IF, POSSIBLE, MAYBE, and NOT IS and ARE. You will understand why he struggled to articulate a true position even near the conclusion of his life.
This is why people are suspicious of scientist. They have more disclaimers than actual facts in their research. |
6th December 2012, 08:41 AM | #627 |
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Quote:
'"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space," |
6th December 2012, 08:41 AM | #628 |
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6th December 2012, 08:44 AM | #629 |
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6th December 2012, 08:44 AM | #630 |
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6th December 2012, 08:45 AM | #631 |
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Carl sagan never claimed he was absoultuly certain of everything he would have been a poor scientist if he did go around labouring under that delusion.
Now cease misrepresenting him in your ill judge and totally ignornace driven assessment of him. You have stated you have not read any of his books so you do know nothing about him in real terms. |
6th December 2012, 08:45 AM | #632 |
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6th December 2012, 08:48 AM | #633 |
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I did not misrepresent what Carl Sagan said. I gave you the actual Carl Sagan video.
Here it is again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOcfCkUBsdc |
6th December 2012, 08:52 AM | #634 |
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I changed the highlighting to emphasize the relevant point: your cherry-picking of one statement of one facet of the popular impression of his work.
From his biography - as in the biography in his obituary from his final employer, Cornell University:
Originally Posted by Cornell University
justintime, you have no idea what you're talking about, the sources to which you appeal regularly contradict you, you can't even put together a coherent argument. I've read most of this thread, and I get that you don't like Carl Sagan, which is a right you have vigorously exercised. You also have a right to make a fool of yourself, and you have made liberal use of that right as well with your parade of misrepresentations, straw men, ludicrously broken analogies, cherry-picking, and nearly innumerable errors of fact. My advice to you - my parting advice, mind you, because I don't feel like indulging you again - is not to pat yourself on the back for getting attention in this thread, because, as another poster once said, people aren't laughing with you. It's the other thing. |
6th December 2012, 08:56 AM | #635 |
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I did watch the video and in at NO POINT does he state that aiens, ETI exist as proved fact.
And I recall watching that clip the first time it was broadcast on TV well before youtube was ever thoguth up. he never claimed in his professiaonl working life that they did, he only ever posited a possibility, he actually says in that clip and I have watched it, THERE IS NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE ALIENS HAVE VISITED. You have totally misunderstood what he was sying, you have no credible arguments based on anything he actually did do to back up your assertion. |
6th December 2012, 08:56 AM | #636 |
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6th December 2012, 08:59 AM | #637 |
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As I have patiently explained to you before, (although perhaps not, as I think of it, on this forum), I do not like to watch videos for information. Above and beyond the fact that people speak so much more slowly than I read, there is a personal consideration...with the deterioration of my hearing, I find it impractical to set the volume of my computer high enough to for me to hear it--and at that volume, it is disturbing to my partner while my partner is working...not to mention being fuzzy and distorted (the audio, not my partner).
So, no thank you; I will read Dr, Sagan's words instead. Perhaps you know of a location where the transcript of the video might be found? The simple act of reading any of Dr., Sagan's explanations would demonstrate that the attribution of "advanced civilization" to extra-terrestrial intelligences that it would be possible for us to detect on Earth is due to the fact that a "primitive civilization" (such as Earth's) is capable of doing very little that is, in fact, detectable, or perceptible, at intergalactic distances. We do not have "evidence" that extraterrestrial intelligences exist, which is why privately-funded organizations are looking for them. If we had hard evidence of the existence of extraterrestrial intelligences; if we knew they were there, we would not be looking for them, but trying to figure out how (and whether) to contact them. Not having read "(all) his work" (or, for that matter, according to your own report, any of his work, how do you think you know this? Further, developing and investigating conjecture is a real, and vital, part of the nature of this enterprise we call "science" (along with, for instance, skeptical thought). It has been pointed out to you, patiently and repeatedly, that Dr, Sagan's interest in debunking unsupported tales of UFO visits" and "alien abductions", even coupled with his fascination with the possibility of the existence, somewhere in the universe, of intelligent life, does not constitute an "obsession". Might I ask why you persist in the straw-man characterization? If you are of the unshakable opinion, in the face of contrary evidence, that Dr. Sagan's interest constituted an "obsession", consider phrasing it as such...an opinion. Your own opinion. |
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6th December 2012, 09:00 AM | #638 |
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6th December 2012, 09:01 AM | #639 |
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Did Sagen kick his puppy or something?
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6th December 2012, 09:02 AM | #640 |
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