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6th December 2012, 12:32 PM | #681 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Every scientist I know is employed, with the exception of some who have retired or died.
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6th December 2012, 12:45 PM | #682 |
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I am basing my reply to your points.
You asked: Q: 1. What makes you think that being insecure and sceptic is at most improbable? A: I did not say it was improbable. I listed my real-life experience with insecure people and nothing from those experiences led me to any assumption they were skeptics too. They said they were just insecure people. Q: 2. You seem annoyed to have found counterexamples preventing you to claim that it is impossible for those to coexist in the same person. A: Nowhere in any of my post did I exhibit any annoyance. I only suggested the members who thought they were skeptics might just be insecure people. Q: 3. What's your real point here? A: This suggest it was you that did not understand what my post was about. Q: 4. If "true" sceptics don't exist then evolution is a myth? A: I did not suggest there were no skeptics, all I was suggesting was they might just be insecure individuals. And it is incorrect to think skeptics are a separate branch of evolution. Q: 4. The insecurity that makes you believe in a god is better than alleged Sagan's (which makes him believe in.... nothing)? There is no mention of god in my post. It is not a choice between god or Sagan's. I was merely point to Sagan's inferiority complex and insecurity and the fact he is a skeptic. You question on this post. Q: 5. Why is your own insecurity worthier than the one you attribute to sceptics? A: I never mentioned I had any insecurities. And if I had maybe I could make a comparison for you. |
6th December 2012, 12:50 PM | #683 |
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6th December 2012, 01:14 PM | #684 |
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Reading the transcripts of the question and answer sessions following his Gifford lectures at the end of The Varieties of Scientific Experience, I'm amazed that he could be every bit as articulate, his syntax every bit as perfectly formulated in spontaneous conversation as he was in his written compositions. There are certainly others who fall into that same category: Stephen J. Gould, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Feynman etcetera, but it's inspiring to behold.
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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6th December 2012, 01:18 PM | #685 |
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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6th December 2012, 01:25 PM | #686 |
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I'm reminded of the smug "Scientists think they know it all" retort too often issued by the ignorant. I reply that if scientists thought they knew everything there would be no reason to continue science. Science thrives on the three words "we don't know". As such, the scientific method is driven by the acknowledgement of one's own ignorance. Scientists, as a general rule, are bored by what they already know. When a mystery is resolved there are some high fives passed around, but then everyone quickly turns their attentions to the new "But then what the hell is that?".
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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6th December 2012, 01:26 PM | #687 |
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6th December 2012, 01:33 PM | #688 |
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I saw that as a three part series. There are plenty of contradictions to highlight in those videos.
1. Carl Sagan is not against all the good things that religion has done for mankind. He even list many commendable contributions. What he is against is the institution of religion that profits from the weakness of it believers. That is no different from his own pandering to the publics fascination with UFOs and alien encounters. He wrote a fiction book Contact. to cash in on the rave. 2. He was asked if he was not using double standards insisting on evidence before believing and yet maintaining. Just because we don't know if they are out there and there is no evidence they exist does not preclude that we should not be looking for them. 3. When asked why he rejected his friend Dr John Mack's professional opinion as a doctor and psychiatrist. Dr Mack said the strong emotions exhibited by alien abductees and witnesses of UFOs had to be taken as proof that there was something to those sightings and experiences. Dr John Mack was a doctor, a scientist. He went back to his position the lack of evidence. Carl Sagan then uses an experience he had as an example. He heard his dead fathers voice calling out Carl. He recognized the voice of his dead father and was drawn with emotions. But explained it away as a auditory hallucination without any supported evidence. Ironically using a medical explanation to explain away the incident. So what is good for the goose is not good for the gander in Carls case. 4. Carl is concerned we now live in a scientific age and old superstitions and beliefs are really a hindrance. I suppose in a world searching for a cure and solutions for cancer, AIDS, autism, climate change, global destruction etc. etc. We should take scientist like him seriously. Scientist who are looking for aliens, black holes and flights into fantasy land. Scientist like to blame their failures on the public. How can the public take scientist seriously when most of the major discovers were discovered by accident and not by design or scientific method. Some Examples. http://listverse.com/2008/02/24/top-...l-discoveries/ http://science.discovery.com/brink/t...ntions-01.html http://www.oddee.com/item_97879.aspx |
6th December 2012, 01:36 PM | #689 |
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In other words, having had it handed to you on a number of forums and having had your ignorance expounded in a most disconcerting manner, you've decided that the fault cannot lie with yourself, and therefor must reside with those who have pointed out the numerous, often egregious, errors in the claims and statements that you have presented. Rather than address the deficiencies in your knowledge, you've chosen to project the feeling that your encounters has inspired in yourself onto those who have shown you your errors.
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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6th December 2012, 01:37 PM | #690 |
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6th December 2012, 01:40 PM | #691 |
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Why don't you read Carl Sagan's books, justintime?
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"The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain. |
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6th December 2012, 01:41 PM | #692 |
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6th December 2012, 01:48 PM | #693 |
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The only insecure person in this discussion is you justintime. You who feel like since people don't accept things on face value that they aren't being rational, but rather fearful. (which is total baloney)
I think some skeptic just kicked your butt up and down the street in a debate sometime and you are still coming to grips with it. You can tell us, we will havd you a hanky and help you get through it. Cuz dude, all you are doing right now is getting your butt kicked again, just in slow motion this time.... |
6th December 2012, 01:50 PM | #694 |
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Why is "I don't know" not a true position? And why don't you read Sagan's books?
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"The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain. |
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6th December 2012, 01:58 PM | #695 |
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If you saw Carl Sagan's "Last interview" you will get the picture. Carl Sagan openly says whahever he said about religion, ghost and irrational beliefs in superstitions etc are not new. They have been around since the beginning of time. I just happen to have read them from other sources.
I enjoyed his Cosmos series but once he got into his obsession with aliens and the search for them. It just turned me off. It was just too much listening to someone talking about a remote chance of contacting aliens in distant space when there was a regular supply of whacky alien sightings right HERE on earth. You don't replace one whacky sighting with another just because they show you a formula they used to calculate the probability, which sounded like a very long story even then. I was right.. The story is still going on after 50 years. |
6th December 2012, 02:03 PM | #696 |
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Contact wasn't about UFOs.
Exactly. Very rational. 3. When asked why he rejected his friend Dr John Mack's professional opinion as a doctor and psychiatrist. Dr Mack said the strong emotions exhibited by alien abductees and witnesses of UFOs had to be taken as proof that there was something to those sightings and experiences. Dr John Mack was a doctor, a scientist. He went back to his position the lack of evidence. You know black holes are real, right? |
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6th December 2012, 02:05 PM | #697 |
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6th December 2012, 02:08 PM | #698 |
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All I saw in your last psots is your complete lack of an ability to understand and analyse Sagan did not say anything you claim he did and most major discoveries HAVE NOT BEEN accidents.
All that shows is you have little knowledge of the history of scientific discovery either. |
6th December 2012, 02:11 PM | #699 |
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Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking and Arthur C. Clarke - God, The Universe and Everything Else (1988)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKQQAv5svkk |
6th December 2012, 02:16 PM | #700 |
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"The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain. |
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6th December 2012, 02:17 PM | #701 |
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I have never lost a debate on any forum. I have been censured by moderators because of the inordinate amount of complaints made by my detractors who lack the education or rhetorical skills and would rather have the moderator assist them, which is cowardly and despicable. It is not a perfect world.
So it is of little surprise I am generating so much traffic. My posts draw strong emotions and is a better substitute than mind expanding drugs. But I always caution. If the headache persist........that is as expanded as it gets. |
6th December 2012, 02:19 PM | #702 |
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Justintime already admitted Sagan was as skeptic a couple pages ago, so I guess we could call the thread done since that was the question in the OP.
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"If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm |
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6th December 2012, 02:24 PM | #703 |
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6th December 2012, 02:24 PM | #704 |
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"The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain. |
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6th December 2012, 02:27 PM | #705 |
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6th December 2012, 02:31 PM | #706 |
Illuminator
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The black knight always triumphs!
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6th December 2012, 02:36 PM | #707 |
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How many Skeptics know that Carl Sagan also suffered from an inferiority complex.
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Is that the only hint of his inferiority complex and insecurity in himself and disdain for the entire human race? We know he searched for Extraterrestrial intelligence through his SETI program which just celebrated its 50th Anniversary. In his own words he describes just how tiny and insignificant we are in the vastness of the cosmos. How he believes there are older and wiser civilizations out there and justifies searching for them. He also holds in contempt human intelligence and the self destructive nature of man borne out of ignorance and misguided purpose. That we might be spared our self destruction by seeking those distant planets of older and wiser civilizations. Space Engine: A Cosmic Voyage (Feat. Carl Sagan) in his own words. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU0e_...ature=youtu.be Did he go beyond the definition of Skeptic? Was it scientific skepticism or his inferiority complex that made him a lonely man. Did his complex force him to over compensate for his feelings of inadequacy as is often with those suffering from an IC. Does his words and life provide us the clues? I leave that to the readers. |
6th December 2012, 02:38 PM | #708 |
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I think you've passed over a great deal of his work. I'm certain of it in fact.
Your homework assignment for this weekend is to read, cover to cover, The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark. It's a primer to your understanding of the man, skepticism, science, and a whole bunch of stuff. Go on now. |
6th December 2012, 02:57 PM | #709 |
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To read Carl Sagans works like the one you mentioned is to go back into the past Carl was lost in that was full of Ghost, Demons and irrational superstitions. Carl Sagan was concerned these irrational superstitions should be rejected so we can allow science to triumphant. That made a lot of sense till the public found out what he was doing with science. Looking for extraterrestrial intelligence.
It was noble of him to write that book The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark. to help people overcome their irrational beliefs and sacrificed himself to his own demons and obsession with aliens. Do you have something for forward thinkers like me ? |
6th December 2012, 03:06 PM | #710 |
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6th December 2012, 03:07 PM | #711 |
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THAT is the panel discussion I referred to earlier in the thread.
Great find. That is so wrong it beggars belief. Sagan actually wrote "Contact" because he wanted a portrayal of First Contact that didn't involve laser blasters and photon torpedoes. Ann Druyan is clear about what Carl wanted. They wanted to write something that would be a fictional representation of what contact would actually be like, in a manner that was within the technology of today, but would also show the tension between religion and science. Your posts started out as unlikely, and have evolved through the preposterous and outright stupid to end up actually insulting a great man who is unable to speak for himself. You make me sick!. |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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6th December 2012, 03:09 PM | #712 |
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6th December 2012, 03:10 PM | #713 |
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6th December 2012, 03:26 PM | #714 |
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No. I don't believe it any more. This is not incomprehension, illogic or stupidity. This is just trolling to get a reaction.
I'm gone. |
6th December 2012, 03:33 PM | #715 |
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@justintime
Nah, I got nothin', why don't you ask the guy with the plans for the INTERGALACTIC rockets? LOL |
6th December 2012, 03:38 PM | #716 |
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6th December 2012, 03:39 PM | #717 |
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6th December 2012, 03:54 PM | #718 |
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So saying, "I wonder if there might be other beings in the universe far, far older than us, with far greater knowledge and technology?" indicates an inferiority complex? I'd bet 10,000 internets that had he concluded that humans are probably the smartest beings in the universe, you'd accuse him of arrogance. By your logic, unless you are convinced that you are the smartest person alive today, you too must have a terrible inferiority complex. Are you the smartest person alive today?
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Our anthropomorphic conceits are exposed by the unanticipated truth of nature; that complexity is generated from the bottom up rather than from the top down. We are confronted by an incomprehensibly vast and dangerous, yet beautiful and awesome universe that was not made for us and does not care if we exist or not. We are left to explore this universe without a guide. We are utterly alone... all 6.87 billion of us. Would anyone else care to add their own thoughts?
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It's too bad you've never actually read the man you are attempting to discredit. You might learn something. But first, you'll need to bone-up on your reading comprehension.
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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6th December 2012, 04:15 PM | #719 |
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6th December 2012, 04:22 PM | #720 |
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Never lost a debate in a forum?? ...you have totally crashed in the flames of failure in the Carl Sagan thread
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