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Blue Mountain · 27th May 2012, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Wildtime

This probably explains why Roto-Rooter couldn't help me with my network problems...

Yeah. By the same token, Cisco sucks at clearing debris for your home's sewer drain. (If they did offer such a service, you'd need to hire someone with a CCNET to do the job.)

Captain_Swoop · 27th May 2012, 04:56 PM

In the UK the computer box is a 'Rooter' and the thing for working wood is a Router even thoug hthey are both the same spelling.

IF you are driving from place to place it is also planning a 'root'

clearwater · 27th May 2012, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

In Australia, you never hear anyone say "rooter". Or if they do, there are invariably sniggers. However, route as in road is almost always pronounced "root".

I remember as a kid being filled with admiration at the thought of a highway called Route 66, and coming to the conclusion that Americans had an obsession with doing eveything in a big way- and probably that the country had a great many chiropractors.
Even if it were pronounced ""root"" it would probably slip very quickly into common usage without raising a collective aussie eyebrow..after all, kids talk about their Wi without a snigger, and dongle and hard-drive go unremarked, as did 5" floppy

Hlafordlaes · 27th May 2012, 06:54 PM

Reason there are so many examples of varied pronunciation in English is the ongoing Great Vowel Shift. For those speaking more "shifted" regional dialects, the /au/ sound in "rawter" is normal, while others retain the older /u/ sound of "root." Whoever coined the term router probably spoke with a fully shifted vowel.

The wiki link describes the time of greatest or speediest change, but one can find traces of the shift still ongoing today.

Love the history of English. Studied it a long time ago (decades), but I still have a few beek* on the subject lying around.

---
*OE: books

arthwollipot · 27th May 2012, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by clearwater

Even if it were pronounced ""root"" it would probably slip very quickly into common usage without raising a collective aussie eyebrow..after all, kids talk about their Wi without a snigger, and dongle and hard-drive go unremarked, as did 5" floppy

Routers have been around at least as long as those have, and trust me, the Wii, dongles and floppies did not go unremarked.

Travis · 28th May 2012, 04:32 AM

I'm just going to say it: the word "rooter" sounds like a weird form of German porn where only the fish survives. No way could something like that be so intimately associated with the internet...........waitaminute!

Rat · 29th May 2012, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Routers have been around at least as long as those have, and trust me, the Wii, dongles and floppies did not go unremarked.

What you seem to be saying is that the problem is not that 'root' is homophonous with an Australian slang word, but that Australians are in some way more juvenile than the rest of the world. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

arthwollipot · 29th May 2012, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Rat

What you seem to be saying is that the problem is not that 'root' is homophonous with an Australian slang word, but that Australians are in some way more juvenile than the rest of the world. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

I think that may well be exactly what I'm saying.

quadraginta · 29th May 2012, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by Rat

What you seem to be saying is that the problem is not that 'root' is homophonous with an Australian slang word, but that Australians are in some way more juvenile than the rest of the world. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

"Dongle" is pretty much guaranteed to get a chuckle (or leer) from somebody in any group. Especially since its usage in a computer context seems to be becoming archaic. (A development for which I am profoundly grateful. When those damned things were the solution du jour for copy protection I loathed the very sight of them, not to mention their demon-inspired side effects. )

arthwollipot · 29th May 2012, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

"Dongle" is pretty much guaranteed to get a chuckle (or leer) from somebody in any group. Especially since its usage in a computer context seems to be becoming archaic. (A development for which I am profoundly grateful. When those damned things were the solution du jour for copy protection I loathed the very sight of them, not to mention their demon-inspired side effects. )

These days, USB wireless internet devices are being referred to as dongles.

Jomante · 29th May 2012, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

These days, USB wireless internet devices are being referred to as dongles.

That's because we computer geeks like to plug in our dongles into any port we can.

Hated having the dongle just dangling there sometimes.

Rat · 29th May 2012, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

"Dongle" is pretty much guaranteed to get a chuckle (or leer) from somebody in any group. Especially since its usage in a computer context seems to be becoming archaic. (A development for which I am profoundly grateful. When those damned things were the solution du jour for copy protection I loathed the very sight of them, not to mention their demon-inspired side effects. )

When they were still the solution du jour it wasn't a problem. But I think it was AutoCAD that used them, so we had lots, then they started using normal software licences, but we couldn't throw the dongles away because they proved the legitimacy of our upgrade paths, so we had a huge cupboard full of dongles that we had to keep. Still find one every now and then, often somewhere quite unexpected.

Sam.I.Am · 30th May 2012, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Rat

When they were still the solution du jour it wasn't a problem. But I think it was AutoCAD that used them, so we had lots, then they started using normal software licences, but we couldn't throw the dongles away because they proved the legitimacy of our upgrade paths, so we had a huge cupboard full of dongles that we had to keep. Still find one every now and then, often somewhere quite unexpected.

That's what SHE said.

quadraginta · 31st May 2012, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

These days, USB wireless internet devices are being referred to as dongles.

Something similar to that is what prompted me to comment.

I have a Bluetooth transmitter which I use with a set of Bluetooth stereo headphones to adapt non-Bluetooth devices. Looks like this.

I mentioned it in a group of about a half dozen people of varied ages and backgrounds a few weeks ago and referred to it as a dongle (without thinking, for lack of a better term.) The only one who didn't respond with a chuckle or leer was another (

) over-the-hill technogeek.

I think that so many of the current devices are coming with wireless connectivity on-board that even adapters are getting to be somewhat old school.

The gizmo that adds Bluetooth to my ancient R51 Thinkpad doesn't even rate the term "dongle". It's more of a "bump".

lionking · 31st May 2012, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

These days, USB wireless internet devices are being referred to as dongles.

And a donga, of course, is a hut in a mining community, in Australia at least.

Okay, sorry, I'm out of here.

quadraginta · 31st May 2012, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by Rat

When they were still the solution du jour it wasn't a problem. But I think it was AutoCAD that used them, so we had lots, then they started using normal software licences, but we couldn't throw the dongles away because they proved the legitimacy of our upgrade paths, so we had a huge cupboard full of dongles that we had to keep. Still find one every now and then, often somewhere quite unexpected.

It was when you had a handful of them daisy-chained out of your parallel port. And when they didn't get along with your printer software (or each other.

).

That sort of thing can get ridiculous real quick. The first one is a nuisance. The second a PITA. After that it inspires hatred for copy protection schemes in general, and dongles in particular.

ETA: It just occurred to me that even knowing what a parallel port is will soon be a mark of an over-the-hill technogeek.

arthwollipot · 31st May 2012, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

ETA: It just occurred to me that even knowing what a parallel port is will soon be a mark of an over-the-hill technogeek.

Ha! I come from the days of Centronix ports.

commandlinegamer · 1st June 2012, 02:22 AM

I like BNC connectors because they twist on with a satisfying click, but I hate having to wire them up.

quadraginta · 1st June 2012, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Ha! I come from the days of Centronix ports.

I expect we're talking about the same thing. Even the DB25 pin-out on the original IBM PC parallel port was a Centronics parallel interface connection, with the 36 pin connector on the other end of the cable to the printer. There wasn't an IEEE standard to replace Centronics until the mid-90s.

arthwollipot · 2nd June 2012, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

I expect we're talking about the same thing. Even the DB25 pin-out on the original IBM PC parallel port was a Centronics parallel interface connection, with the 36 pin connector on the other end of the cable to the printer. There wasn't an IEEE standard to replace Centronics until the mid-90s.

Yes. I'd misremembered it spelled with an x, I think. 1995 was still the era of config.sys and autoexec.bat, until Windows 95 changed everything.

Rat · 2nd June 2012, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Yes. I'd misremembered it spelled with an x, I think. 1995 was still the era of config.sys and autoexec.bat, until Windows 95 changed everything.

Those of us who played games still needed autoexec.bat and config.sys for some time after 95 came out.

Eligbak · 24th June 2012, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

These days, USB wireless internet devices are being referred to as dongles.

These days, non-wireless USB devices are referred to as sticks. And what about autoexec.bat? Too unimaginative for Aussies?

27th May 2012, 04:40 PM	#41
Blue Mountain Resident Skeptical Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg Posts: 3,657	Originally Posted by Wildtime This probably explains why Roto-Rooter couldn't help me with my network problems... Yeah. By the same token, Cisco sucks at clearing debris for your home's sewer drain. (If they did offer such a service, you'd need to hire someone with a CCNET to do the job.)
	__________________ The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum.

27th May 2012, 05:22 PM	#43
clearwater New Blood Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1	Originally Posted by arthwollipot In Australia, you never hear anyone say "rooter". Or if they do, there are invariably sniggers. However, route as in road is almost always pronounced "root". I remember as a kid being filled with admiration at the thought of a highway called Route 66, and coming to the conclusion that Americans had an obsession with doing eveything in a big way- and probably that the country had a great many chiropractors. Even if it were pronounced ""root"" it would probably slip very quickly into common usage without raising a collective aussie eyebrow..after all, kids talk about their Wi without a snigger, and dongle and hard-drive go unremarked, as did 5" floppy
clearwater New Blood Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1

27th May 2012, 06:54 PM	#44
Hlafordlaes ðe Liurning Cnicht Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Shallow end of gene pool Posts: 93	Reason there are so many examples of varied pronunciation in English is the ongoing Great Vowel Shift. For those speaking more "shifted" regional dialects, the /au/ sound in "rawter" is normal, while others retain the older /u/ sound of "root." Whoever coined the term router probably spoke with a fully shifted vowel. The wiki link describes the time of greatest or speediest change, but one can find traces of the shift still ongoing today. Love the history of English. Studied it a long time ago (decades), but I still have a few beek* on the subject lying around. --- *OE: books
	__________________ Calm down, have some dip. -George Carlin

27th May 2012, 10:14 PM	#45
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The other side of your screen Posts: 43,244	Originally Posted by clearwater Even if it were pronounced ""root"" it would probably slip very quickly into common usage without raising a collective aussie eyebrow..after all, kids talk about their Wi without a snigger, and dongle and hard-drive go unremarked, as did 5" floppy Routers have been around at least as long as those have, and trust me, the Wii, dongles and floppies did not go unremarked.
	__________________ Jadey (in RvB game thread): I just want to take a moment to commend Arth on his role as Parasitic Alien Tumor. I think he really connected with the character and there were times when I forgot that he was just acting. That's the kind of talent that you can't teach.

28th May 2012, 04:32 AM	#46
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 18,101	I'm just going to say it: the word "rooter" sounds like a weird form of German porn where only the fish survives. No way could something like that be so intimately associated with the internet...........waitaminute!
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

27th May 2012, 04:56 PM	#42
Captain_Swoop Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 3,980	In the UK the computer box is a 'Rooter' and the thing for working wood is a Router even thoug hthey are both the same spelling. IF you are driving from place to place it is also planning a 'root'

29th May 2012, 01:27 AM	#47
Rat Not bored. Never bored. Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leicester, UK Posts: 7,155	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Routers have been around at least as long as those have, and trust me, the Wii, dongles and floppies did not go unremarked. What you seem to be saying is that the problem is not that 'root' is homophonous with an Australian slang word, but that Australians are in some way more juvenile than the rest of the world. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.
	__________________ "Man muß den Menschen vor allem nach seinen Lastern beurteilen. Tugenden können vorgetäuscht sein. Laster sind echt." - Klaus Kinski UKLS 1988- Sitting on the fence throwing stones at both sides.

29th May 2012, 06:28 AM	#48
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The other side of your screen Posts: 43,244	Originally Posted by Rat What you seem to be saying is that the problem is not that 'root' is homophonous with an Australian slang word, but that Australians are in some way more juvenile than the rest of the world. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. I think that may well be exactly what I'm saying.
	__________________ Jadey (in RvB game thread): I just want to take a moment to commend Arth on his role as Parasitic Alien Tumor. I think he really connected with the character and there were times when I forgot that he was just acting. That's the kind of talent that you can't teach.

29th May 2012, 07:22 AM	#49
quadraginta What was the question? Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 7,964	Originally Posted by Rat What you seem to be saying is that the problem is not that 'root' is homophonous with an Australian slang word, but that Australians are in some way more juvenile than the rest of the world. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. "Dongle" is pretty much guaranteed to get a chuckle (or leer) from somebody in any group. Especially since its usage in a computer context seems to be becoming archaic. (A development for which I am profoundly grateful. When those damned things were the solution du jour for copy protection I loathed the very sight of them, not to mention their demon-inspired side effects. )

29th May 2012, 07:47 AM	#50
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The other side of your screen Posts: 43,244	Originally Posted by quadraginta "Dongle" is pretty much guaranteed to get a chuckle (or leer) from somebody in any group. Especially since its usage in a computer context seems to be becoming archaic. (A development for which I am profoundly grateful. When those damned things were the solution du jour for copy protection I loathed the very sight of them, not to mention their demon-inspired side effects. ) These days, USB wireless internet devices are being referred to as dongles.
	__________________ Jadey (in RvB game thread): I just want to take a moment to commend Arth on his role as Parasitic Alien Tumor. I think he really connected with the character and there were times when I forgot that he was just acting. That's the kind of talent that you can't teach.

29th May 2012, 08:12 AM	#51
Jomante Thinker Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 221	Originally Posted by arthwollipot These days, USB wireless internet devices are being referred to as dongles. That's because we computer geeks like to plug in our dongles into any port we can. Hated having the dongle just dangling there sometimes.
Jomante Thinker Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 221

29th May 2012, 10:57 AM	#52
Rat Not bored. Never bored. Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leicester, UK Posts: 7,155	Originally Posted by quadraginta "Dongle" is pretty much guaranteed to get a chuckle (or leer) from somebody in any group. Especially since its usage in a computer context seems to be becoming archaic. (A development for which I am profoundly grateful. When those damned things were the solution du jour for copy protection I loathed the very sight of them, not to mention their demon-inspired side effects. ) When they were still the solution du jour it wasn't a problem. But I think it was AutoCAD that used them, so we had lots, then they started using normal software licences, but we couldn't throw the dongles away because they proved the legitimacy of our upgrade paths, so we had a huge cupboard full of dongles that we had to keep. Still find one every now and then, often somewhere quite unexpected.
	__________________ "Man muß den Menschen vor allem nach seinen Lastern beurteilen. Tugenden können vorgetäuscht sein. Laster sind echt." - Klaus Kinski UKLS 1988- Sitting on the fence throwing stones at both sides.

30th May 2012, 11:00 PM	#53
Sam.I.Am Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hunting Moose and Squirrel Posts: 4,164	Originally Posted by Rat When they were still the solution du jour it wasn't a problem. But I think it was AutoCAD that used them, so we had lots, then they started using normal software licences, but we couldn't throw the dongles away because they proved the legitimacy of our upgrade paths, so we had a huge cupboard full of dongles that we had to keep. Still find one every now and then, often somewhere quite unexpected. That's what SHE said.
	__________________ "Swift, silent and deadly" was a part of my job description Upon hearing me say that my friend asked me "So you're a fart?"... About my avatar.

31st May 2012, 03:11 AM	#54
quadraginta What was the question? Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 7,964	Originally Posted by arthwollipot These days, USB wireless internet devices are being referred to as dongles. Something similar to that is what prompted me to comment. I have a Bluetooth transmitter which I use with a set of Bluetooth stereo headphones to adapt non-Bluetooth devices. Looks like this. I mentioned it in a group of about a half dozen people of varied ages and backgrounds a few weeks ago and referred to it as a dongle (without thinking, for lack of a better term.) The only one who didn't respond with a chuckle or leer was another () over-the-hill technogeek. I think that so many of the current devices are coming with wireless connectivity on-board that even adapters are getting to be somewhat old school. The gizmo that adds Bluetooth to my ancient R51 Thinkpad doesn't even rate the term "dongle". It's more of a "bump".

31st May 2012, 03:18 AM	#55
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,985	Originally Posted by arthwollipot These days, USB wireless internet devices are being referred to as dongles. And a donga, of course, is a hut in a mining community, in Australia at least. Okay, sorry, I'm out of here.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

31st May 2012, 03:33 AM	#56
quadraginta What was the question? Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 7,964	Originally Posted by Rat When they were still the solution du jour it wasn't a problem. But I think it was AutoCAD that used them, so we had lots, then they started using normal software licences, but we couldn't throw the dongles away because they proved the legitimacy of our upgrade paths, so we had a huge cupboard full of dongles that we had to keep. Still find one every now and then, often somewhere quite unexpected. It was when you had a handful of them daisy-chained out of your parallel port. And when they didn't get along with your printer software (or each other. ). That sort of thing can get ridiculous real quick. The first one is a nuisance. The second a PITA. After that it inspires hatred for copy protection schemes in general, and dongles in particular. ETA: It just occurred to me that even knowing what a parallel port is will soon be a mark of an over-the-hill technogeek.
	Last edited by quadraginta; 31st May 2012 at 03:42 AM.

31st May 2012, 05:59 PM	#57
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The other side of your screen Posts: 43,244	Originally Posted by quadraginta ETA: It just occurred to me that even knowing what a parallel port is will soon be a mark of an over-the-hill technogeek. Ha! I come from the days of Centronix ports.
	__________________ Jadey (in RvB game thread): I just want to take a moment to commend Arth on his role as Parasitic Alien Tumor. I think he really connected with the character and there were times when I forgot that he was just acting. That's the kind of talent that you can't teach.

1st June 2012, 02:22 AM	#58
commandlinegamer Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mazes of Menace Posts: 5,994	I like BNC connectors because they twist on with a satisfying click, but I hate having to wire them up.
	__________________ He bade me take any rug in the house.

1st June 2012, 05:42 AM	#59
quadraginta What was the question? Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 7,964	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Ha! I come from the days of Centronix ports. I expect we're talking about the same thing. Even the DB25 pin-out on the original IBM PC parallel port was a Centronics parallel interface connection, with the 36 pin connector on the other end of the cable to the printer. There wasn't an IEEE standard to replace Centronics until the mid-90s.
	Last edited by quadraginta; 1st June 2012 at 05:44 AM.

2nd June 2012, 06:41 AM	#60
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The other side of your screen Posts: 43,244	Originally Posted by quadraginta I expect we're talking about the same thing. Even the DB25 pin-out on the original IBM PC parallel port was a Centronics parallel interface connection, with the 36 pin connector on the other end of the cable to the printer. There wasn't an IEEE standard to replace Centronics until the mid-90s. Yes. I'd misremembered it spelled with an x, I think. 1995 was still the era of config.sys and autoexec.bat, until Windows 95 changed everything.
	__________________ Jadey (in RvB game thread): I just want to take a moment to commend Arth on his role as Parasitic Alien Tumor. I think he really connected with the character and there were times when I forgot that he was just acting. That's the kind of talent that you can't teach.

2nd June 2012, 09:46 AM	#61
Rat Not bored. Never bored. Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leicester, UK Posts: 7,155	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Yes. I'd misremembered it spelled with an x, I think. 1995 was still the era of config.sys and autoexec.bat, until Windows 95 changed everything. Those of us who played games still needed autoexec.bat and config.sys for some time after 95 came out.
	__________________ "Man muß den Menschen vor allem nach seinen Lastern beurteilen. Tugenden können vorgetäuscht sein. Laster sind echt." - Klaus Kinski UKLS 1988- Sitting on the fence throwing stones at both sides.

24th June 2012, 09:34 AM	#62
Eligbak Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 98	Originally Posted by arthwollipot These days, USB wireless internet devices are being referred to as dongles. These days, non-wireless USB devices are referred to as sticks. And what about autoexec.bat? Too unimaginative for Aussies?
Eligbak Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 98