Why are some eBooks so expensive?

Brian-M · 14th June 2012, 06:09 AM

I recently bought myself an eBook reader. An Elonex eBook reader on discount for only (AU)$49 at Dick Smith's Electronics. With electronic paper display and thin enough that I'm using a modified DVD case to keep it in, I think it was a pretty good buy.

There's plenty of places to (legally) get free eBooks. Project Gutenberg, Baen Free Library, ManyBooks.net, etc.

But when I went to look for a non-free eBook, specifically "And Another Thing" by Eoin Colfer, I find prices like this...

Formats Amazon Price New from Used from
Kindle Edition $9.27 -- --
Hardcover, Bargain Price $10.40 $2.71 $2.01
Paperback $14.99 $4.49 $0.52
Audio, CD, Audiobook $14.14 $5.98 $7.98
Unknown Binding -- -- --

http://www.amazon.com/Another-Thing-.../dp/B002WGC8PU

Amazon is charging almost as much for the eBook as it does for the hardcover.

Trying again...

ISBN: 9780241959527
Published : 27 May 2010
Publisher : Michael Joseph

Other formats for And Another Thing ...:
» Paperback : £8.99
» Paperback : £6.99
» Audio CD : £19.99
» ePub eBook: eBook : £7.00
» Downloadable Audio: Audiobook : £12.98

http://www.penguin.co.uk/nf/Book/Boo...959527,00.html

That's £6.99 for paperback, £7.00 for eBook.
From Penguin, the eBook costs more than the paperback.

Since publishing an eBooks is so much cheaper than publishing a physical book (just royalties, publisher's cut and website costs, without any of the messy business of printing, binding and transporting physical copies), why is this not reflected in the price?

Trying again for "Making Money" by Terry Pratchett, the Amazon price for the Kindle version is £4.94, while the paperback is £5.59. That's only a piddling £0.63 difference. (These are apparently discounted prices. According to the top of the page, the list prices are £7.16 for the Kindle version and £7.99 for the paperback version.)

(I don't know why Google keeps directing me to UK sites either.)

ETA:

Looking for "Making Money" again, Kobo Books doesn't sell it internationally, so I can't buy it from them, while fictionwise.com was selling it for $11.99, but they're not selling it anymore. If I was actually looking to buy an electronic copy (I bought a physical copy years ago), I'd be a mite annoyed.

Cuddles · 14th June 2012, 06:19 AM

Price fixing by Apple, Hachette, HarperCollins, Macmillan, Penguin and Simon & Schuster. Most of them are currently being sued multiple times by the US government and are being investigated by the European Commission, although Hachette and HarperCollins settled straight away for around $50 million.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04...es_ebook_suit/

Careyp74 · 14th June 2012, 06:37 AM

The short answer deals with distribution channels and comparative pricing. The long answer involves the invisible hand of the economy.

One might think that eBooks would reflect the low price of production, however, it doesn't take that much more to produce a hard copy. Most of the price of each is royalties, overhead in the company, and distribution.

Now, new hardcover and paperbacks will tend to lower in price as they age from comparative pricing. The used editions that are readily available will drive down that price. eBooks from Amazon don't have this effect because used editions are not transferable from reader to reader easily, and when they are, it is not done in the marketplace, but among friends.

Also, overstock of a book will lower the price so that the store does not have to warehouse them. There is no overstock of eBooks.

ETA: And what Cuddles said.

DreamingNaiad · 14th June 2012, 07:03 AM

Not sure if it is the same where you are but here there is no tax on books, but there is tax on ebooks because the EU considers them to be 'electronic services'. So even though they *are* books they don't get the exemption.

There are apparently no plans to change this.

Careyp74 · 14th June 2012, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by DreamingNaiad

Not sure if it is the same where you are but here there is no tax on books, but there is tax on ebooks because the EU considers them to be 'electronic services'. So even though they *are* books they don't get the exemption.

There are apparently no plans to change this.

I think the taxes would come in at the end, when purchasing, and not a part of the stated price.

richardm · 14th June 2012, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Careyp74

I think the taxes would come in at the end, when purchasing, and not a part of the stated price.

Most businesses in the UK that are aimed at the public rather than other businesses will include the tax in the stated price.

The pricing of ebooks is somewhat vexing, especially when they cost more than the paper equivalent. How can that possibly be right?

DreamingNaiad · 14th June 2012, 12:35 PM

Yeah, in the UK when we are given a price that is how much something will cost. Tax is already there.

TheL8Elvis · 14th June 2012, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Cuddles

Price fixing by Apple, Hachette, HarperCollins, Macmillan, Penguin and Simon & Schuster. Most of them are currently being sued multiple times by the US government and are being investigated by the European Commission, although Hachette and HarperCollins settled straight away for around $50 million.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04...es_ebook_suit/

But not Amazon, right ?

http://ia701206.us.archive.org/6/ite...94628.54.0.pdf

Ryokan · 14th June 2012, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by richardm

Most businesses in the UK that are aimed at the public rather than other businesses will include the tax in the stated price.

You mean most businesses outside the US.

Shopping in the US can be a confusing experience for anyone from a country where the tax is already incorporated into the price of things..

Brian-M · 14th June 2012, 05:39 PM

Interesting answers. Maybe I should think about this from the other way around.

What would be a fair pricing system for eBooks?

Assuming that the author should receive 10% of the RRP of the print edition, and the publisher normally makes a net profit of around 25% of the RRP on the print edition, and lets say the vendor's fee (eg, selling it though Apple, or for bandwidth and other electronic distribution costs to sell it themselves) is 30% of the eBook price.

That would make a fair price for an eBook 50% the cost of the (undiscounted) print edition, with both the publisher and author receiving the same amount of money they'd have received if you'd paid full price for the printed version.

(Given that they'd already have edited and proofread the manuscript in order to produce the print edition, there's no overhead costs.)

Looking up the VAT situation, it seems that the VAT is dependent on the rules in the seller's country. So no matter where in the EU you were, if you bought an eBook from a seller in Switzerland you'd pay 25% VAT. But if you bought the same eBook from a seller in Luxembourg, you'd only pay 3% VAT (the lowest in the EU).

Not coincidentally, it seems that both Apple and Amazon have set up their European headquarters in Luxembourg.

ETA:

Originally Posted by Careyp74

Also, overstock of a book will lower the price so that the store does not have to warehouse them. There is no overstock of eBooks.

Another reason why eBooks should cost less than (undiscounted) printed books. Less financial risk, therefore less profit margin needed as a hedge against the occasional loss from being overstocked.

Pulvinar · 14th June 2012, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

What would be a fair pricing system for eBooks?

I don't see any (sustainable) monopoly here. If people desire the ebook version more than the print version, their price may climb higher. If no one buys them, their price drops. Sounds as fair as anything to me.

Brian-M · 14th June 2012, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Pulvinar

I don't see any (sustainable) monopoly here. If people desire the ebook version more than the print version, their price may climb higher. If no one buys them, their price drops. Sounds as fair as anything to me.

The problem is that it costs next to nothing to make an eBook available for sale. So if the price is too high and eBook sales are low, it doesn't cost the publisher anything. The customer will probably end up buying a printed copy instead. Either way, they still make a profit. It's effectively a monopoly on the author's work.

I'm thinking a better way to do things is if publishing houses didn't have electronic publishing rights for their author's works.

That way the author could also self-publish in places like Apple (which charges 30% of the eBook sale price), Amazon/Kindle (which charges 30% of the eBook sale price), Google (I don't know how much Google charges) or Lulu (which charges 20% of the eBook sale price).

That way consumers would have a choice between buying a printed book from a publishing house or an electronic book direct from the author.

The author could charge as little as $3 or $4 for electronic copies and still get paid more than they currently get from publisher released eBooks.

Babbylonian · 14th June 2012, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

The problem is that it costs next to nothing to make an eBook available for sale. So if the price is too high and eBook sales are low, it doesn't cost the publisher anything. The customer will probably end up buying a printed copy instead. Either way, they still make a profit. It's effectively a monopoly on the author's work.

I'm thinking a better way to do things is if publishing houses didn't have electronic publishing rights for their author's works.

That way the author could also self-publish in places like Apple (which charges 30% of the eBook sale price), Amazon/Kindle (which charges 30% of the eBook sale price), Google (I don't know how much Google charges) or Lulu (which charges 20% of the eBook sale price).

That way consumers would have a choice between buying a printed book from a publishing house or an electronic book direct from the author.

The author could charge as little as $3 or $4 for electronic copies and still get paid more than they currently get from publisher released eBooks.

That only works if the publishers provide no value at all to the author for e-book sales.

For example: New author X gets a hard-copy publishing deal with a company. That company proceeds not only to print the book but they also edit it (this can be critical if someone doesn't already have someone competent at least proofing) and market it with anything from bookstore advertising to radio spots to full-on video commercials. Book tours can also make a huge difference. All of this not only benefits the sales of the print version but also benefits the sales of the electronic version. It seems right and proper that the publishing company should get a cut of those electronic sales.

Stephen King's latest book doesn't really need significant publisher help to succeed - he already has the fame and money to make it work; he's probably got enough dough even to take care of his own printing and shipping costs. Joe Schmoe's new novel absolutely needs the publisher's work on his behalf and/or a bit of luck getting the "right" people to read it who will get the word out.

Cutting the publishers out of e-book sales isn't the solution. Given the current situation, the only thing that's likely to drive prices down is if consumers simply won't buy any book - new, used, or electronic - costing more than perhaps $5-7 (I can stomach paying new paperback prices).

Pulvinar · 14th June 2012, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

The problem is that it costs next to nothing to make an eBook available for sale.

Costs only figure in in setting a minimum price. The price is set (eventually) by what the market will bear. How else would you explain the price of a paper book? It's certainly more than the cost of the paper, but how much more is "fair"?

elgarak · 15th June 2012, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

That only works if the publishers provide no value at all to the author for e-book sales.

For example: New author X gets a hard-copy publishing deal with a company. That company proceeds not only to print the book but they also edit it (this can be critical if someone doesn't already have someone competent at least proofing) and market it with anything from bookstore advertising to radio spots to full-on video commercials. Book tours can also make a huge difference. All of this not only benefits the sales of the print version but also benefits the sales of the electronic version. It seems right and proper that the publishing company should get a cut of those electronic sales.

Stephen King's latest book doesn't really need significant publisher help to succeed - he already has the fame and money to make it work; he's probably got enough dough even to take care of his own printing and shipping costs. Joe Schmoe's new novel absolutely needs the publisher's work on his behalf and/or a bit of luck getting the "right" people to read it who will get the word out.

Cutting the publishers out of e-book sales isn't the solution. Given the current situation, the only thing that's likely to drive prices down is if consumers simply won't buy any book - new, used, or electronic - costing more than perhaps $5-7 (I can stomach paying new paperback prices).

I could imagine that the author pays for professional services like marketing, editing, formatting etc. if he needs it. Things that publishing companies nowadays should do (sometimes they don't, or not effectively).

The advantage being that now the primary monetary stream would be between the most important people in the system: The author and his readers. The problem of the traditional system is that it gives too much power to the publishers who should only be a service company in between the author and the readers.

JonathanMaxBerman · 15th June 2012, 04:11 AM

You can already sell you own books through the various book stores, setting a lower price and taking a larger share of the profits, so long as you don't already have a deal with a publisher. This doesn't give the same ego boost the traditional publication does and the consumer might have a harder time with this system because there is no longer an editorial layer preventing the truly unreadable from being published.

elgarak · 15th June 2012, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by JonathanMaxBerman

You can already sell you own books through the various book stores, setting a lower price and taking a larger share of the profits, so long as you don't already have a deal with a publisher. This doesn't give the same ego boost the traditional publication does and the consumer might have a harder time with this system because there is no longer an editorial layer preventing the truly unreadable from being published.

Self-published books are always unreadable?

That's a statement I know is wrong.

Of course there's a lot of junk. Then again, I'm not sure that going through a publisher greatly reduces the percentage of junk.

Aidoneus · 15th June 2012, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

The problem is that it costs next to nothing to make an eBook available for sale.

This isn't necessarily true; printing costs account for such a tiny percentage of a physical book's costs that an ebook isn't really saving the publisher all that much money. An ebook still needs to be commissioned, edited, designed, publicised, and royalties still need to be payed to the author, and that forms the bulk of the cost of any book- electronic or otherwise.

Brian-M · 15th June 2012, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Aidoneus

This isn't necessarily true; printing costs account for such a tiny percentage of a physical book's costs that an ebook isn't really saving the publisher all that much money. An ebook still needs to be commissioned, edited, designed, publicised, and royalties still need to be payed to the author, and that forms the bulk of the cost of any book- electronic or otherwise.

Publishers often sell books to major chain stores for half the RRP. Right there, we have 50% of the cost of the book going to the bookstore. If you're downloading the book directly from the publisher, this cost no longer applies.

Even if we assume that the cost of printing, binding, warehousing and delivering books is very low, it's unlikely to be lower than the cost of bandwidth and banking costs for delivering eBooks over the internet. Plus the overhead costs of maintaining the servers and code for the website selling the books would be much lower than that of maintaining printing presses.

So it'd be a safe assumption that the savings on the print copy of a book would more than make up for the costs of selling it electronically directly to the public.

In that case, a fair price for eBooks should be no more than half the RRP for printed books.

Plus there are more savings from the fact that the publisher will never be overstocked with books they can't sell at RRP, forcing them to sell these books at a discount or pulp them. With less risk of loss, they don't need as much profit margin in the RRP to hedge against these losses.

So a fair price for eBooks should be lower than 50% the RRP of printed books.

I'm assuming here that the RRP of printed books represents a fair price. And I'm not using fair price to mean free-market price, as free-market price is only really fair when there isn't a vast disparity between supply and demand. Since there is an infinite supply of any eBook (unlimited copies can be produced effectively instantly at virtually no cost per copy), the market price determined by supply and demand in a free market should be almost nothing for eBooks. However, copyright laws means that eBooks aren't being sold in a free market, as the copyright holders have monopolies on their works.

Babbylonian · 15th June 2012, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

However, copyright laws means that eBooks aren't being sold in a free market, as the copyright holders have monopolies on their works.

I can't let this pass. A free market, at least one in a capitalist society, depends on enforceable ownership of property. Copyright laws - which create that enforceable ownership for intellectual property - are an absolute requirement for books to be worth buying and selling in this age of easy reproduction.

Brian-M · 16th June 2012, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

I can't let this pass. A free market, at least one in a capitalist society, depends on enforceable ownership of property. Copyright laws - which create that enforceable ownership for intellectual property - are an absolute requirement for books to be worth buying and selling in this age of easy reproduction.

I'm not saying that copyright laws are a bad thing. Much like patent laws, they serve an important function.

Without copyright laws, new books would be in the same position as copyright expired books; so cheap to reproduce that websites give copies out for free. Authors wouldn't be able to earn a living from it.

(Not that authors can earn a living purely from the sale of eBooks yet. But one day eBooks may almost completely replace paperback novels.)

Brian-M · 16th June 2012, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Aidoneus

This isn't necessarily true; printing costs account for such a tiny percentage of a physical book's costs that an ebook isn't really saving the publisher all that much money. An ebook still needs to be commissioned, edited, designed, publicised, and royalties still need to be payed to the author, and that forms the bulk of the cost of any book- electronic or otherwise.

Thinking about this some more, I realize that I'm looking at it from the perspective of successful printed books being re-released as eBooks. This would be a pretty simple setup for the publishers. Find the copy of the printed book that exists on their computers, scan in the cover of the printed book for a frontispiece, use a conversion program like Calibre to convert it to ePub (or whatever), then post it somewhere like the Apple store. Quick, cheap and easy.

But now I'm wondering, what if there were no printed copies? What if we had eBook-only publishing companies, that produce the eBook from scratch? This sort of thing could be done by one guy in a home-office, especially if he only publishes one or two new eBooks a month. And let's say that, much like regular publishing, he only accepts books expected to sell at least 10,000 copies.

First the manuscript would need to be edited and proof-read. Checking Google, professional online editing and proof-reading services like www.scribendi.com charge around 1 to 6 cents per page. So presumably proper editing and proof-reading of a standard 100,000 page manuscript is worth around $5000.

Next he might want to commission an artist (cheaply) to create a front cover or frontispiece to give the finished product a professional appearance, and maybe have him make a few ads from the artwork too. And he might need to pay legal fees (shouldn't be too much, after the first client it'd just be using standard boilerplate). Let's say all this comes up to another $1000.

Then he can place the eBook on a website that sells them, and spend $4000 on publicizing the novel (via internet advertisements and trying to get reviews).

So all up, that's about $10,000 value for professionally publishing an eBook.
Or around $1 per copy if they expect to sell 10,000 copies.

But he'll need to make a profit, so double that to make $2 per book.

If he gives the author $1.80 royalties, about what the author would get per book if sold as a paperback, that brings the cost of an eBook to $3.80.

Add on the 30% commission that Apple and other eBook sellers charge, and that comes to almost $5 per eBook.

$5 seems a fair price for a top quality eBook to me. I think it's reasonable to say that publishing companies charging more than twice this are ripping people off, especially if editing, publicizing, ect, have already been done for the sake of producing the print copy.

(Of course, this is just armchair logic. There could be factors I haven't considered.)

casebro · 17th June 2012, 10:31 AM

They charge it because you will pay it. It's called free market.

The publishers are a built in monopoly for each book, until the author's contract expires. No real need to 'price fix' if they can sell direct either. It's their product, they set the price to the purchasers, whether wholesale or retail. The price fixing only comes into play if they tell a wholesaler what to sell it for. So why even bother with a wholesaler like Amazon?

Now, a college professor who self publishes an e-text book, then requires his students to buy it at an exorbitant price ought to be restricted form participating in the capitalist market at all. I'm talking a capital punishment for abusing the capitalist system. $5 ought to buy any e-textbook. If the prof don't like it, he can go get a job in the real world to earn the big bucks.

JWideman · 17th June 2012, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

Next he might want to commission an artist (cheaply) to create a front cover or frontispiece to give the finished product a professional appearance, and maybe have him make a few ads from the artwork too. And he might need to pay legal fees (shouldn't be too much, after the first client it'd just be using standard boilerplate). Let's say all this comes up to another $1000.

No. You don't hire an artistto design a book cover. You hire a designer.

JoeTheJuggler · 17th June 2012, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

Amazon is charging almost as much for the eBook as it does for the hardcover.

The "bargain hardcover", that is. That hardcover price (like the eBook price) is considerably lower than the paperback price.

I suspect the original hardcover price was quite a bit higher.

jasonpatterson · 17th June 2012, 12:13 PM

To try to figure out what the cost of an ebook ought to be, I'll assume that a publisher wants to get the same return on a physical and electronic copy. It's hard to find good numbers, but most of the ones I'm using come from a NY Times article about this very topic and are in general agreement with what I was able to find elsewhere. I round a bit here and there to keep the numbers nice, but nothing more than a penny or three.

Physical:
Retail sale = $25
Publisher receives 50% = $12.50
Less author's 15% royalty of $3.75 = 8.75
Less printing, storage, shipping costs of $3.25 = $5.50
Less cover design, typesetting, editing costs of $0.80 = $4.70
Less marketing costs of $1 = $3.70
The publisher receives $3.70. This is not a $3.70 profit, but $3.70 income from the sale of the book.

The printing costs would increase per book sold by the total cost associated with unsold copies since they incur this cost regardless of sales. The design and marketing costs would decrease per book sold since they are a fixed value per edition. Marketing costs would vary widely depending on the author/title, and the article I linked cites a lower value for the electronic book's marketing costs.

To get the same income from an ebook:
Publisher receives $3.70
Marketing cost of $0.80 = $4.50
Typesetting, digital conversion, editing costs of $0.50 = $5.00
Author's 25% royalty of $2.78 = $7.78
Online vendor receives 30% = $11.11

Again, marketing would vary widely and marketing and editing costs decrease as the volume of books sold increases.

It looks like ebooks should cost less than they do, from my point of view. However, I also don't know what fraction of hardcover books are actually sold for the cover price these days, or whether the publisher receives their 50% of the cover price regardless of the actual sale price of a book.

The high cost of an ebook relative to a discounted hardcover is the primary reason I haven't bought an ereader myself. I feel no draw toward gadgety stuff, and with the cost of the device itself factored in, buying actual books is more appealing to me at this point, and it certainly costs less with my rate of book purchasing. Also, if I drop a real book, it won't break, it doesn't run out of batteries, and I'm not going to have problems with planned obsolescence in 4 or 5 years.

Careyp74 · 18th June 2012, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

Another reason why eBooks should cost less than (undiscounted) printed books. Less financial risk, therefore less profit margin needed as a hedge against the occasional loss from being overstocked.

Ah, I did not think about that. Those are good points. I am leaning towards the unfair practices mentioned earlier. As a protest, I am only reading books that I get really cheap (read as FREE) from Amazon, and the library. Oh, and Project Gutenberg. I am on the 11th book in the Barsoom series now.

Brian-M · 19th June 2012, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Careyp74

Ah, I did not think about that. Those are good points. I am leaning towards the unfair practices mentioned earlier. As a protest, I am only reading books that I get really cheap (read as FREE) from Amazon, and the library. Oh, and Project Gutenberg. I am on the 11th book in the Barsoom series now.

If you're looking for FREE, I did mention a couple of sites in the OP.

http://www.baen.com/library
http://manybooks.net

Fishstick · 19th June 2012, 02:32 AM

Also, dailylit.com

Careyp74 · 19th June 2012, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

If you're looking for FREE, I did mention a couple of sites in the OP.

http://www.baen.com/library
http://manybooks.net

I like the search features of manybooks.net, but I don't see anything I already don't have access to on PG. Amazon gives access to meny recent free books, either from the top 100 free list, or searching genre and sorting by price.

Brian-M · 19th June 2012, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Careyp74

I like the search features of manybooks.net, but I don't see anything I already don't have access to on PG.

Taking a quick look, I see you're right. I must have been getting it confused with http://www.getfreeebooks.com/

roger · 19th June 2012, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

(Of course, this is just armchair logic. There could be factors I haven't considered.)

One guy in an office? Big houses have 30k books in their backlist. Only 1 in 8 books are profitable. 45% of books ( non fiction) need fact checking. You need to wade through a lot of books to find the big sellers, ans even the big houses can't predict that (unless your name is Clinton or Bush). To make a profit and sell many copies, you need advertising. To keep good writers, you need to sign contracts, promote them, keep them in the spotlight, and hand hold them when they aren't producing. You need legal teams for the inevitable lawsuits and contract negotiations.

A small amount of the total effort goes to printing, shipping, and warehousing.

kungfuhobbit · 24th June 2012, 03:48 PM

I think Goldacre recently tweeted about this issue

fuelair · 24th June 2012, 09:27 PM

Because people are buying them at those prices.

elgarak · 25th June 2012, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by fuelair

Because people are buying them at those prices.

Errrr... No.

Books are not a commodity. You don't have two offerings of functional identical products where people just buy the more expensive one because they feel to get something better.

Books are very individual products. If you're a fan of an author and want to buy his latest book, you buy it no matter what, at whatever price the publisher sets, because you will not get this particular title any other price.

The Dark Lord · 25th June 2012, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by elgarak

Errrr... No.

Books are not a commodity. You don't have two offerings of functional identical products where people just buy the more expensive one because they feel to get something better.

Books are very individual products. If you're a fan of an author and want to buy his latest book, you buy it no matter what, at whatever price the publisher sets, because you will not get this particular title any other price.

Under that logic, publishers should set prices far higher than they are.

Of course, they don't do that because far fewer people would buy the books. Instead, they price them at what the market will bear. Which is pretty much what fuelair said.

rjh01 · 25th June 2012, 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

Under that logic, publishers should set prices far higher than they are.

Of course, they don't do that because far fewer people would buy the books. Instead, they price them at what the market will bear. Which is pretty much what fuelair said.

They set them for what they think would produce the maximum profit.

Late edit. them means the price of books.

The Dark Lord · 25th June 2012, 03:06 AM

Originally Posted by rjh01

They set them for what they think would produce the maximum profit.

Yeah, exactly.

theprestige · 27th June 2012, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

They set them for what they think would produce the maximum profit.

Price them too high, and sales go down, even as the profit on each individual sale goes up.

If sales go down, you get stuck with a lot more unsold inventory. Carrying inventory is a cost. As inventory goes up, costs go up, and profits go down. Raise prices high enough, and increased inventory costs negate increased profits.

Reduce production to reduce inventory, and you start losing the economies of scale, which can also eat into your profits.

ETA: Which suggests that publishers will price ebooks pretty high, since low sales don't actually result in high inventories.

14th June 2012, 06:19 AM	#2
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,564	Price fixing by Apple, Hachette, HarperCollins, Macmillan, Penguin and Simon & Schuster. Most of them are currently being sued multiple times by the US government and are being investigated by the European Commission, although Hachette and HarperCollins settled straight away for around $50 million. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04...es_ebook_suit/
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

14th June 2012, 08:33 AM	#6
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Originally Posted by Careyp74 I think the taxes would come in at the end, when purchasing, and not a part of the stated price. Most businesses in the UK that are aimed at the public rather than other businesses will include the tax in the stated price. The pricing of ebooks is somewhat vexing, especially when they cost more than the paper equivalent. How can that possibly be right?
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

14th June 2012, 03:22 PM	#8
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,513	Originally Posted by Cuddles Price fixing by Apple, Hachette, HarperCollins, Macmillan, Penguin and Simon & Schuster. Most of them are currently being sued multiple times by the US government and are being investigated by the European Commission, although Hachette and HarperCollins settled straight away for around $50 million. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04...es_ebook_suit/ But not Amazon, right ? http://ia701206.us.archive.org/6/ite...94628.54.0.pdf
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,513

14th June 2012, 05:39 PM	#10
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,229	Interesting answers. Maybe I should think about this from the other way around. What would be a fair pricing system for eBooks? Assuming that the author should receive 10% of the RRP of the print edition, and the publisher normally makes a net profit of around 25% of the RRP on the print edition, and lets say the vendor's fee (eg, selling it though Apple, or for bandwidth and other electronic distribution costs to sell it themselves) is 30% of the eBook price. That would make a fair price for an eBook 50% the cost of the (undiscounted) print edition, with both the publisher and author receiving the same amount of money they'd have received if you'd paid full price for the printed version. (Given that they'd already have edited and proofread the manuscript in order to produce the print edition, there's no overhead costs.) Looking up the VAT situation, it seems that the VAT is dependent on the rules in the seller's country. So no matter where in the EU you were, if you bought an eBook from a seller in Switzerland you'd pay 25% VAT. But if you bought the same eBook from a seller in Luxembourg, you'd only pay 3% VAT (the lowest in the EU). Not coincidentally, it seems that both Apple and Amazon have set up their European headquarters in Luxembourg. ETA: Originally Posted by Careyp74 Also, overstock of a book will lower the price so that the store does not have to warehouse them. There is no overstock of eBooks. Another reason why eBooks should cost less than (undiscounted) printed books. Less financial risk, therefore less profit margin needed as a hedge against the occasional loss from being overstocked.
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim Last edited by Brian-M; 14th June 2012 at 05:52 PM.

14th June 2012, 06:06 PM	#11
Pulvinar Muse Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 815	Originally Posted by Brian-M What would be a fair pricing system for eBooks? I don't see any (sustainable) monopoly here. If people desire the ebook version more than the print version, their price may climb higher. If no one buys them, their price drops. Sounds as fair as anything to me.
Pulvinar Muse Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 815

14th June 2012, 06:37 AM	#3
Careyp74 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Trevose, PA Posts: 3,407	The short answer deals with distribution channels and comparative pricing. The long answer involves the invisible hand of the economy. One might think that eBooks would reflect the low price of production, however, it doesn't take that much more to produce a hard copy. Most of the price of each is royalties, overhead in the company, and distribution. Now, new hardcover and paperbacks will tend to lower in price as they age from comparative pricing. The used editions that are readily available will drive down that price. eBooks from Amazon don't have this effect because used editions are not transferable from reader to reader easily, and when they are, it is not done in the marketplace, but among friends. Also, overstock of a book will lower the price so that the store does not have to warehouse them. There is no overstock of eBooks. ETA: And what Cuddles said.

14th June 2012, 07:03 AM	#4
DreamingNaiad Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The forgotten sweet abyss Posts: 465	Not sure if it is the same where you are but here there is no tax on books, but there is tax on ebooks because the EU considers them to be 'electronic services'. So even though they are books they don't get the exemption. There are apparently no plans to change this.

14th June 2012, 07:15 AM	#5
Careyp74 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Trevose, PA Posts: 3,407	Originally Posted by DreamingNaiad Not sure if it is the same where you are but here there is no tax on books, but there is tax on ebooks because the EU considers them to be 'electronic services'. So even though they are books they don't get the exemption. There are apparently no plans to change this. I think the taxes would come in at the end, when purchasing, and not a part of the stated price.

14th June 2012, 12:35 PM	#7
DreamingNaiad Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The forgotten sweet abyss Posts: 465	Yeah, in the UK when we are given a price that is how much something will cost. Tax is already there.

14th June 2012, 05:06 PM	#9
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 8,167	Originally Posted by richardm Most businesses in the UK that are aimed at the public rather than other businesses will include the tax in the stated price. You mean most businesses outside the US. Shopping in the US can be a confusing experience for anyone from a country where the tax is already incorporated into the price of things..

14th June 2012, 07:26 PM	#12
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,229	Originally Posted by Pulvinar I don't see any (sustainable) monopoly here. If people desire the ebook version more than the print version, their price may climb higher. If no one buys them, their price drops. Sounds as fair as anything to me. The problem is that it costs next to nothing to make an eBook available for sale. So if the price is too high and eBook sales are low, it doesn't cost the publisher anything. The customer will probably end up buying a printed copy instead. Either way, they still make a profit. It's effectively a monopoly on the author's work. I'm thinking a better way to do things is if publishing houses didn't have electronic publishing rights for their author's works. That way the author could also self-publish in places like Apple (which charges 30% of the eBook sale price), Amazon/Kindle (which charges 30% of the eBook sale price), Google (I don't know how much Google charges) or Lulu (which charges 20% of the eBook sale price). That way consumers would have a choice between buying a printed book from a publishing house or an electronic book direct from the author. The author could charge as little as $3 or $4 for electronic copies and still get paid more than they currently get from publisher released eBooks.
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim

14th June 2012, 07:46 PM	#13
Babbylonian Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lake Oswego, OR Posts: 4,459	Originally Posted by Brian-M The problem is that it costs next to nothing to make an eBook available for sale. So if the price is too high and eBook sales are low, it doesn't cost the publisher anything. The customer will probably end up buying a printed copy instead. Either way, they still make a profit. It's effectively a monopoly on the author's work. I'm thinking a better way to do things is if publishing houses didn't have electronic publishing rights for their author's works. That way the author could also self-publish in places like Apple (which charges 30% of the eBook sale price), Amazon/Kindle (which charges 30% of the eBook sale price), Google (I don't know how much Google charges) or Lulu (which charges 20% of the eBook sale price). That way consumers would have a choice between buying a printed book from a publishing house or an electronic book direct from the author. The author could charge as little as $3 or $4 for electronic copies and still get paid more than they currently get from publisher released eBooks. That only works if the publishers provide no value at all to the author for e-book sales. For example: New author X gets a hard-copy publishing deal with a company. That company proceeds not only to print the book but they also edit it (this can be critical if someone doesn't already have someone competent at least proofing) and market it with anything from bookstore advertising to radio spots to full-on video commercials. Book tours can also make a huge difference. All of this not only benefits the sales of the print version but also benefits the sales of the electronic version. It seems right and proper that the publishing company should get a cut of those electronic sales. Stephen King's latest book doesn't really need significant publisher help to succeed - he already has the fame and money to make it work; he's probably got enough dough even to take care of his own printing and shipping costs. Joe Schmoe's new novel absolutely needs the publisher's work on his behalf and/or a bit of luck getting the "right" people to read it who will get the word out. Cutting the publishers out of e-book sales isn't the solution. Given the current situation, the only thing that's likely to drive prices down is if consumers simply won't buy any book - new, used, or electronic - costing more than perhaps $5-7 (I can stomach paying new paperback prices).
	__________________ Where am I going to find a piece of metal? Here...in space...at this hour? Last edited by Babbylonian; 14th June 2012 at 07:47 PM.

14th June 2012, 08:02 PM	#14
Pulvinar Muse Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 815	Originally Posted by Brian-M The problem is that it costs next to nothing to make an eBook available for sale. Costs only figure in in setting a minimum price. The price is set (eventually) by what the market will bear. How else would you explain the price of a paper book? It's certainly more than the cost of the paper, but how much more is "fair"?
Pulvinar Muse Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 815

15th June 2012, 02:31 AM	#15
elgarak Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: No matter where I go, there I am Posts: 1,858	Originally Posted by Babbylonian That only works if the publishers provide no value at all to the author for e-book sales. For example: New author X gets a hard-copy publishing deal with a company. That company proceeds not only to print the book but they also edit it (this can be critical if someone doesn't already have someone competent at least proofing) and market it with anything from bookstore advertising to radio spots to full-on video commercials. Book tours can also make a huge difference. All of this not only benefits the sales of the print version but also benefits the sales of the electronic version. It seems right and proper that the publishing company should get a cut of those electronic sales. Stephen King's latest book doesn't really need significant publisher help to succeed - he already has the fame and money to make it work; he's probably got enough dough even to take care of his own printing and shipping costs. Joe Schmoe's new novel absolutely needs the publisher's work on his behalf and/or a bit of luck getting the "right" people to read it who will get the word out. Cutting the publishers out of e-book sales isn't the solution. Given the current situation, the only thing that's likely to drive prices down is if consumers simply won't buy any book - new, used, or electronic - costing more than perhaps $5-7 (I can stomach paying new paperback prices). I could imagine that the author pays for professional services like marketing, editing, formatting etc. if he needs it. Things that publishing companies nowadays should do (sometimes they don't, or not effectively). The advantage being that now the primary monetary stream would be between the most important people in the system: The author and his readers. The problem of the traditional system is that it gives too much power to the publishers who should only be a service company in between the author and the readers.

15th June 2012, 04:11 AM	#16
JonathanMaxBerman Student Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 33	You can already sell you own books through the various book stores, setting a lower price and taking a larger share of the profits, so long as you don't already have a deal with a publisher. This doesn't give the same ego boost the traditional publication does and the consumer might have a harder time with this system because there is no longer an editorial layer preventing the truly unreadable from being published.
JonathanMaxBerman Student Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 33

15th June 2012, 04:38 AM	#17
elgarak Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: No matter where I go, there I am Posts: 1,858	Originally Posted by JonathanMaxBerman You can already sell you own books through the various book stores, setting a lower price and taking a larger share of the profits, so long as you don't already have a deal with a publisher. This doesn't give the same ego boost the traditional publication does and the consumer might have a harder time with this system because there is no longer an editorial layer preventing the truly unreadable from being published. Self-published books are always unreadable? That's a statement I know is wrong. Of course there's a lot of junk. Then again, I'm not sure that going through a publisher greatly reduces the percentage of junk.

15th June 2012, 08:10 AM	#18
Aidoneus Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 161	Originally Posted by Brian-M The problem is that it costs next to nothing to make an eBook available for sale. This isn't necessarily true; printing costs account for such a tiny percentage of a physical book's costs that an ebook isn't really saving the publisher all that much money. An ebook still needs to be commissioned, edited, designed, publicised, and royalties still need to be payed to the author, and that forms the bulk of the cost of any book- electronic or otherwise.

15th June 2012, 07:10 PM	#19
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,229	Originally Posted by Aidoneus This isn't necessarily true; printing costs account for such a tiny percentage of a physical book's costs that an ebook isn't really saving the publisher all that much money. An ebook still needs to be commissioned, edited, designed, publicised, and royalties still need to be payed to the author, and that forms the bulk of the cost of any book- electronic or otherwise. Publishers often sell books to major chain stores for half the RRP. Right there, we have 50% of the cost of the book going to the bookstore. If you're downloading the book directly from the publisher, this cost no longer applies. Even if we assume that the cost of printing, binding, warehousing and delivering books is very low, it's unlikely to be lower than the cost of bandwidth and banking costs for delivering eBooks over the internet. Plus the overhead costs of maintaining the servers and code for the website selling the books would be much lower than that of maintaining printing presses. So it'd be a safe assumption that the savings on the print copy of a book would more than make up for the costs of selling it electronically directly to the public. In that case, a fair price for eBooks should be no more than half the RRP for printed books. Plus there are more savings from the fact that the publisher will never be overstocked with books they can't sell at RRP, forcing them to sell these books at a discount or pulp them. With less risk of loss, they don't need as much profit margin in the RRP to hedge against these losses. So a fair price for eBooks should be lower than 50% the RRP of printed books. I'm assuming here that the RRP of printed books represents a fair price. And I'm not using fair price to mean free-market price, as free-market price is only really fair when there isn't a vast disparity between supply and demand. Since there is an infinite supply of any eBook (unlimited copies can be produced effectively instantly at virtually no cost per copy), the market price determined by supply and demand in a free market should be almost nothing for eBooks. However, copyright laws means that eBooks aren't being sold in a free market, as the copyright holders have monopolies on their works.
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim

15th June 2012, 09:31 PM	#20
Babbylonian Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lake Oswego, OR Posts: 4,459	Originally Posted by Brian-M However, copyright laws means that eBooks aren't being sold in a free market, as the copyright holders have monopolies on their works. I can't let this pass. A free market, at least one in a capitalist society, depends on enforceable ownership of property. Copyright laws - which create that enforceable ownership for intellectual property - are an absolute requirement for books to be worth buying and selling in this age of easy reproduction.
	__________________ Where am I going to find a piece of metal? Here...in space...at this hour?

16th June 2012, 12:09 AM	#21
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,229	Originally Posted by Babbylonian I can't let this pass. A free market, at least one in a capitalist society, depends on enforceable ownership of property. Copyright laws - which create that enforceable ownership for intellectual property - are an absolute requirement for books to be worth buying and selling in this age of easy reproduction. I'm not saying that copyright laws are a bad thing. Much like patent laws, they serve an important function. Without copyright laws, new books would be in the same position as copyright expired books; so cheap to reproduce that websites give copies out for free. Authors wouldn't be able to earn a living from it. (Not that authors can earn a living purely from the sale of eBooks yet. But one day eBooks may almost completely replace paperback novels.)
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim

16th June 2012, 12:44 AM	#22
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,229	Originally Posted by Aidoneus This isn't necessarily true; printing costs account for such a tiny percentage of a physical book's costs that an ebook isn't really saving the publisher all that much money. An ebook still needs to be commissioned, edited, designed, publicised, and royalties still need to be payed to the author, and that forms the bulk of the cost of any book- electronic or otherwise. Thinking about this some more, I realize that I'm looking at it from the perspective of successful printed books being re-released as eBooks. This would be a pretty simple setup for the publishers. Find the copy of the printed book that exists on their computers, scan in the cover of the printed book for a frontispiece, use a conversion program like Calibre to convert it to ePub (or whatever), then post it somewhere like the Apple store. Quick, cheap and easy. But now I'm wondering, what if there were no printed copies? What if we had eBook-only publishing companies, that produce the eBook from scratch? This sort of thing could be done by one guy in a home-office, especially if he only publishes one or two new eBooks a month. And let's say that, much like regular publishing, he only accepts books expected to sell at least 10,000 copies. First the manuscript would need to be edited and proof-read. Checking Google, professional online editing and proof-reading services like www.scribendi.com charge around 1 to 6 cents per page. So presumably proper editing and proof-reading of a standard 100,000 page manuscript is worth around $5000. Next he might want to commission an artist (cheaply) to create a front cover or frontispiece to give the finished product a professional appearance, and maybe have him make a few ads from the artwork too. And he might need to pay legal fees (shouldn't be too much, after the first client it'd just be using standard boilerplate). Let's say all this comes up to another $1000. Then he can place the eBook on a website that sells them, and spend $4000 on publicizing the novel (via internet advertisements and trying to get reviews). So all up, that's about $10,000 value for professionally publishing an eBook. Or around $1 per copy if they expect to sell 10,000 copies. But he'll need to make a profit, so double that to make $2 per book. If he gives the author $1.80 royalties, about what the author would get per book if sold as a paperback, that brings the cost of an eBook to $3.80. Add on the 30% commission that Apple and other eBook sellers charge, and that comes to almost $5 per eBook. $5 seems a fair price for a top quality eBook to me. I think it's reasonable to say that publishing companies charging more than twice this are ripping people off, especially if editing, publicizing, ect, have already been done for the sake of producing the print copy. (Of course, this is just armchair logic. There could be factors I haven't considered.)
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim Last edited by Brian-M; 16th June 2012 at 12:50 AM.

17th June 2012, 10:31 AM	#23
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	They charge it because you will pay it. It's called free market. The publishers are a built in monopoly for each book, until the author's contract expires. No real need to 'price fix' if they can sell direct either. It's their product, they set the price to the purchasers, whether wholesale or retail. The price fixing only comes into play if they tell a wholesaler what to sell it for. So why even bother with a wholesaler like Amazon? Now, a college professor who self publishes an e-text book, then requires his students to buy it at an exorbitant price ought to be restricted form participating in the capitalist market at all. I'm talking a capital punishment for abusing the capitalist system. $5 ought to buy any e-textbook. If the prof don't like it, he can go get a job in the real world to earn the big bucks.
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

17th June 2012, 11:06 AM	#24
JWideman Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,241	Originally Posted by Brian-M Next he might want to commission an artist (cheaply) to create a front cover or frontispiece to give the finished product a professional appearance, and maybe have him make a few ads from the artwork too. And he might need to pay legal fees (shouldn't be too much, after the first client it'd just be using standard boilerplate). Let's say all this comes up to another $1000. No. You don't hire an artistto design a book cover. You hire a designer.

17th June 2012, 11:25 AM	#25
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,661	Originally Posted by Brian-M Amazon is charging almost as much for the eBook as it does for the hardcover. The "bargain hardcover", that is. That hardcover price (like the eBook price) is considerably lower than the paperback price. I suspect the original hardcover price was quite a bit higher.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

17th June 2012, 12:13 PM	#26
jasonpatterson Philanthropic Misanthrope Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Space, The Final Frontier Posts: 2,180	To try to figure out what the cost of an ebook ought to be, I'll assume that a publisher wants to get the same return on a physical and electronic copy. It's hard to find good numbers, but most of the ones I'm using come from a NY Times article about this very topic and are in general agreement with what I was able to find elsewhere. I round a bit here and there to keep the numbers nice, but nothing more than a penny or three. Physical: Retail sale = $25 Publisher receives 50% = $12.50 Less author's 15% royalty of $3.75 = 8.75 Less printing, storage, shipping costs of $3.25 = $5.50 Less cover design, typesetting, editing costs of $0.80 = $4.70 Less marketing costs of $1 = $3.70 The publisher receives $3.70. This is not a $3.70 profit, but $3.70 income from the sale of the book. The printing costs would increase per book sold by the total cost associated with unsold copies since they incur this cost regardless of sales. The design and marketing costs would decrease per book sold since they are a fixed value per edition. Marketing costs would vary widely depending on the author/title, and the article I linked cites a lower value for the electronic book's marketing costs. To get the same income from an ebook: Publisher receives $3.70 Marketing cost of $0.80 = $4.50 Typesetting, digital conversion, editing costs of $0.50 = $5.00 Author's 25% royalty of $2.78 = $7.78 Online vendor receives 30% = $11.11 Again, marketing would vary widely and marketing and editing costs decrease as the volume of books sold increases. It looks like ebooks should cost less than they do, from my point of view. However, I also don't know what fraction of hardcover books are actually sold for the cover price these days, or whether the publisher receives their 50% of the cover price regardless of the actual sale price of a book. The high cost of an ebook relative to a discounted hardcover is the primary reason I haven't bought an ereader myself. I feel no draw toward gadgety stuff, and with the cost of the device itself factored in, buying actual books is more appealing to me at this point, and it certainly costs less with my rate of book purchasing. Also, if I drop a real book, it won't break, it doesn't run out of batteries, and I'm not going to have problems with planned obsolescence in 4 or 5 years.
	__________________ Sandra's seen a leprechaun, Eddie touched a troll, Laurie danced with witches once, Charlie found some goblins' gold. Donald heard a mermaid sing, Susie spied an elf, But all the magic I have known I've had to make myself. - Shel Silverstein

18th June 2012, 09:01 AM	#27
Careyp74 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Trevose, PA Posts: 3,407	Originally Posted by Brian-M Another reason why eBooks should cost less than (undiscounted) printed books. Less financial risk, therefore less profit margin needed as a hedge against the occasional loss from being overstocked. Ah, I did not think about that. Those are good points. I am leaning towards the unfair practices mentioned earlier. As a protest, I am only reading books that I get really cheap (read as FREE) from Amazon, and the library. Oh, and Project Gutenberg. I am on the 11th book in the Barsoom series now.

19th June 2012, 12:45 AM	#28
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,229	Originally Posted by Careyp74 Ah, I did not think about that. Those are good points. I am leaning towards the unfair practices mentioned earlier. As a protest, I am only reading books that I get really cheap (read as FREE) from Amazon, and the library. Oh, and Project Gutenberg. I am on the 11th book in the Barsoom series now. If you're looking for FREE, I did mention a couple of sites in the OP. http://www.baen.com/library http://manybooks.net
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim

19th June 2012, 02:32 AM	#29
Fishstick Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,301	Also, dailylit.com

19th June 2012, 04:40 AM	#30
Careyp74 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Trevose, PA Posts: 3,407	Originally Posted by Brian-M If you're looking for FREE, I did mention a couple of sites in the OP. http://www.baen.com/library http://manybooks.net I like the search features of manybooks.net, but I don't see anything I already don't have access to on PG. Amazon gives access to meny recent free books, either from the top 100 free list, or searching genre and sorting by price.

19th June 2012, 06:41 AM	#31
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,229	Originally Posted by Careyp74 I like the search features of manybooks.net, but I don't see anything I already don't have access to on PG. Taking a quick look, I see you're right. I must have been getting it confused with http://www.getfreeebooks.com/
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim

19th June 2012, 12:16 PM	#32
roger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 11,021	Originally Posted by Brian-M (Of course, this is just armchair logic. There could be factors I haven't considered.) One guy in an office? Big houses have 30k books in their backlist. Only 1 in 8 books are profitable. 45% of books ( non fiction) need fact checking. You need to wade through a lot of books to find the big sellers, ans even the big houses can't predict that (unless your name is Clinton or Bush). To make a profit and sell many copies, you need advertising. To keep good writers, you need to sign contracts, promote them, keep them in the spotlight, and hand hold them when they aren't producing. You need legal teams for the inevitable lawsuits and contract negotiations. A small amount of the total effort goes to printing, shipping, and warehousing.
	__________________ May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. - John Muir

24th June 2012, 03:48 PM	#33
kungfuhobbit Student Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 32	I think Goldacre recently tweeted about this issue
kungfuhobbit Student Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 32

24th June 2012, 09:27 PM	#34
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	Because people are buying them at those prices.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

25th June 2012, 01:09 AM	#35
elgarak Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: No matter where I go, there I am Posts: 1,858	Originally Posted by fuelair Because people are buying them at those prices. Errrr... No. Books are not a commodity. You don't have two offerings of functional identical products where people just buy the more expensive one because they feel to get something better. Books are very individual products. If you're a fan of an author and want to buy his latest book, you buy it no matter what, at whatever price the publisher sets, because you will not get this particular title any other price.

25th June 2012, 02:30 AM	#36
The Dark Lord Suspended Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,860	Originally Posted by elgarak Errrr... No. Books are not a commodity. You don't have two offerings of functional identical products where people just buy the more expensive one because they feel to get something better. Books are very individual products. If you're a fan of an author and want to buy his latest book, you buy it no matter what, at whatever price the publisher sets, because you will not get this particular title any other price. Under that logic, publishers should set prices far higher than they are. Of course, they don't do that because far fewer people would buy the books. Instead, they price them at what the market will bear. Which is pretty much what fuelair said.
The Dark Lord Suspended Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,860