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Old 24th December 2012, 08:31 AM   #1
BenBurch
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Gun rights: Going to arm the firemen now?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-shot/1788917/

Fire spread to three homes. Sniper opened fire as soon as fire crews arrived.

Quote:
A gunman shot and killed at least two firefighters responding to a house fire at a Rochester suburb early Monday.

Two other firefighters were in guarded condition at Strong Memorial Hospital with gunshot wounds, according to a hospital spokeswoman, The Rochester Democrat and Chronicle reported.

The gunman was still at large at mid-morning. Fire Marshal Rob Boutillier said the blaze was allowed to spread to two other houses until the area is secured.

<snip>
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Old 24th December 2012, 08:35 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-shot/1788917/

Fire spread to three homes. Sniper opened fire as soon as fire crews arrived.

I haven't noticed any gun violence supporters on this forum.
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Old 24th December 2012, 08:36 AM   #3
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And I've become convinced that guns have nothing to do with all these shootings.
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Old 24th December 2012, 08:51 AM   #4
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I am curious to know if the gunman was opportunistic, or set the blaze to attract targets. However, this does not seem to be random spree killing, like some of the other recent shootings. This seems much more targeted, like the gunman had a grudge (real or perceived) with that fire department or with firemen in general.
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Old 24th December 2012, 08:53 AM   #5
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I guessed a horrible crime was committed, like some guy killing his family to save them, and shot the people who came to help just to be sure everything burned.
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Old 24th December 2012, 08:53 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by cwalner View Post
I am curious to know if the gunman was opportunistic, or set the blaze to attract targets. However, this does not seem to be random spree killing, like some of the other recent shootings. This seems much more targeted, like the gunman had a grudge (real or perceived) with that fire department or with firemen in general.
Or like in that movie The Jerk, he just hates cans?
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Old 24th December 2012, 08:55 AM   #7
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...so he burned down three people's houses over his spat with the fire department? Seems like fairly random targeting to me.
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Old 24th December 2012, 08:56 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Monketey Ghost View Post
And I've become convinced that guns have nothing to do with all these shootings.
that's a thought, sentient, malignant bullets flying around, looking to kill people.
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Old 24th December 2012, 08:59 AM   #9
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After all, guns don't kill people. People shooting loaded guns aimed at people kill people.

That's the way the saying goes, right?
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Old 24th December 2012, 09:08 AM   #10
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Merry Christmas, Delta Bravo. If you have a pause from dancing on graves you may want to notice that the trend is for first responder unions to ask for firearms.

ARMED FIREFIGHTERS? Some Firefighters Want Guns On Job

Quote:
“It is a hot topic, and I am trying to make it a hotter topic, because it is something that needs to be looked at because we cannot depend on law enforcement to protect us,” he said.
Meanwhile there are vast swaths of inner-city America - and increasingly suburban America - where first reposders are delayed - union rules do not allow them to respond without police protection.
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Old 24th December 2012, 09:17 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Cylinder View Post
Merry Christmas, Delta Bravo. If you have a pause from dancing on graves you may want to notice that the trend is for first responder unions to ask for firearms.

ARMED FIREFIGHTERS? Some Firefighters Want Guns On Job



Meanwhile there are vast swaths of inner-city America - and increasingly suburban America - where first reposders are delayed - union rules do not allow them to respond without police protection.
"Union rules"? You make it sound like it's some form of greed or red tape, when in fact you are describing fear (if this is even true) on the part of firemen that there are people with guns in places they need to work. You're actually reinforcing the contention that there's a gun problem in America.

Question: do we arm the firemen or the teachers first? Gotta prioritize!
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Old 24th December 2012, 09:17 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Monketey Ghost View Post
And I've become convinced that guns have nothing to do with all these shootings.
I'm just thankful there wasn't a swimming pool around.
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Old 24th December 2012, 09:21 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by GeeMack View Post
I haven't noticed any gun violence supporters on this forum.
Nope. Let's not let accuracy get in the way of sanctimony, though.
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Old 24th December 2012, 09:33 AM   #14
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[NRA] "We need armed guards at every house in America, in case it catches fire; that way our firefighters will be safe." [/NRA]

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Old 24th December 2012, 10:19 AM   #15
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If only Piers Morgan had been deported already this wouldn't have happened.

Priorities people!
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Old 24th December 2012, 10:22 AM   #16
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I guess the NRA will suggest arming firefighters now.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/firefighter...ry?id=18055594

Four firefighters show while responding to a call...
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Old 24th December 2012, 10:27 AM   #17
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Just saw that on a news site. What the heck is going on? Were the shooters captured? Was the fire set for the purpose of luring in victims? Argh.
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Old 24th December 2012, 10:30 AM   #18
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Mandatory arms for everybody over 18, and bring down the crime rate to zero.

It's the only way to be sure.
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Old 24th December 2012, 10:47 AM   #19
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Shooter is dead from a gunshot wound. Not yet reporting whether it was self inflicted.
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Old 24th December 2012, 10:48 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Cylinder View Post
Merry Christmas, Delta Bravo. If you have a pause from dancing on graves you may want to notice that the trend is for first responder unions to ask for firearms.

ARMED FIREFIGHTERS? Some Firefighters Want Guns On Job



Meanwhile there are vast swaths of inner-city America - and increasingly suburban America - where first reposders are delayed - union rules do not allow them to respond without police protection.
Those are not necessarily union rules, they are also related to legal aspects and such regarding different services.
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Old 24th December 2012, 11:04 AM   #21
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Those who do not recall the turbulent 70s may not recall that there was quite a spate of various people shooting at responding fire units... Sometimes in the context of wide-spread riots, sometimes from various militant radical types.
I related a case from my own experience where an acquaintance had killed his family, set the home ablaze, and then fired on approaching firefighters... (fortunately he appeared to be just keeping them at bay till the home was fully involved)

This sort of thing is not unprecedented and there have been more-or-less serious attempts to arm firefighters in the past.
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Old 24th December 2012, 11:13 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
Those who do not recall the turbulent 70s may not recall that there was quite a spate of various people shooting at responding fire units... Sometimes in the context of wide-spread riots, sometimes from various militant radical types.
I related a case from my own experience where an acquaintance had killed his family, set the home ablaze, and then fired on approaching firefighters... (fortunately he appeared to be just keeping them at bay till the home was fully involved)

This sort of thing is not unprecedented and there have been more-or-less serious attempts to arm firefighters in the past.
And I know of a situation where the perp was still inside the burning building. And he kept firing until the fire took him.

We err in treating these things in isolation. They are part of the same thing.
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Old 24th December 2012, 11:21 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Mandatory arms for everybody over 18, and bring down the crime rate to zero.

It's the only way to be sure.
A gun in every home coat hand!

As for the incident, can you imagine if this becomes a trend, and firefighters become reluctant to respond to fires without armed escort? This could result in more people dying in home fires who might otherwise have been rescued. What the hell is wrong with people?
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Old 24th December 2012, 11:22 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
A gun in every home coat hand appendage!
Fixed that for you.
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Old 24th December 2012, 12:02 PM   #25
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Clearly the solution is more guns and lower taxes.

This has been an automated response from no-reply@gop.com. Replies to this post will not be answered.
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Old 24th December 2012, 12:08 PM   #26
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Why firefighters? Over here its common (or was) for them to have stones thrown at them by kids, its so bizarre - police I can sort of understand the thought pattern but firefighters?
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Old 24th December 2012, 12:08 PM   #27
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NRA :if there were no firefighters then there would be no dead firefighters.
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Old 24th December 2012, 12:24 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
NRA :if there were no firefighters then there would be no dead firefighters.
If we just shot everyone there would be no-one to start fires.
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Old 24th December 2012, 12:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
A gun in every home coat hand!

As for the incident, can you imagine if this becomes a trend, and firefighters become reluctant to respond to fires without armed escort? This could result in more people dying in home fires who might otherwise have been rescued. What the hell is wrong with people?
Some men just want to watch the world burn. In practice in a country the size of the US you can't expect everyone to behave rationaly.
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Old 24th December 2012, 12:39 PM   #30
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It does seem like he had a personal grudge. It's such an odd crime that I would be surprised to discover he had no prior ,negative, interaction with either the local F.D. or cops.
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Old 24th December 2012, 12:51 PM   #31
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In the UK bins or a stolen car will be set alight then the fire engine attacked when it arrives at the scene.
No guns to shoot the firemen though
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Old 24th December 2012, 12:56 PM   #32
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interesting that when merged, this thread was given the more provocative and untruthful title...
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Old 24th December 2012, 12:58 PM   #33
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So, gun violence supporters; Going to arm the firemen now?

Thanks to farmers and firefighters, there is no shortage of straw..
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Old 24th December 2012, 01:25 PM   #34
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No one on this forum supports gun violence. Dishonest title/poster noted.
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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Old 24th December 2012, 01:26 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
No one on this forum supports gun violence. Dishonest title/poster noted.
and a political statement by the mod team. I think we're not welcome here.
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Old 24th December 2012, 01:38 PM   #36
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Blame people, not guns. Given enough time and sunlight, these firefighters could have been assassinated with a magnifying glass.
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Old 24th December 2012, 01:42 PM   #37
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This could never happen in the UK.

Except that it could have, but hasn't. Perhaps it's not just the presence of guns after all?
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Old 24th December 2012, 01:43 PM   #38
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Apparently the gunman killed his grandmother in 1980 and spent 17 years in prison.
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Old 24th December 2012, 02:02 PM   #39
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Can we give them water canons?
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Old 24th December 2012, 02:17 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
and a political statement by the mod team. I think we're not welcome here.
Sorry I am not following where the merger happened. You are saying a mod actually made that thread title?
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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