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Skeptic Ginger · 2nd February 2013, 01:34 PM

There are a lot of chicken and egg hypotheses on whether walking came first or not.

I think one hypothesis was interesting in that the brain requires a lot of cooling and it took the change in gravity assist and changes in cerebral venous drainage to effect that cooling allowing the brain to develop more.

Another hypothesis that makes some sense is the loss of the strong jaw muscle attachments to the skull ridge was needed for the brain to grow bigger. In the other great apes these muscles and tendons limit brain growth.

Then of course there are the freeing of the hands hypotheses.

I believe the answer is, a lot of different changes in anatomy contributed to the evolution of the brain.

marplots · 2nd February 2013, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by autumn1971

I guess you've never seen a hippo poop. It can fire that stuff ten meters or so.

Now there's an evolutionary just-so story I'd like to hear about. Obviously, the ability to fling poo around with your tail has a survival benefit, right?

There's a PhD awaiting the creative researcher who can outline the general theory of poo-volution.

rofl · 2nd February 2013, 06:16 PM

Walking upright and hurling poo? Both facinating, yes, but there is another usually overlooked are of evolution that needs a bit of research and study. In the area of competing to intoduce ones genes to the gene pool and get laid a lot.

The virilty of animals compared to humans indicates that they were far luckier in evolution if the goal of the game is to reproduce and do it a lot. The libido of lions for example during the mating season in very impressive. I remember reading somewhere the male is capable of having sex a few hundred times a day. I googled around but I couldn't find any links to prove it yet. My point is that animals got a pretty good deal from evolution when it comes to their reproduction abilities. Humans have many impressive advantages but not all of them.

I saw a pair of nads on a ram not long ago and they are pretty impressive. You'd need something like that to get a of sheep pregnant during the breeding season. High five for evolution.

Ironically any human with sexual prowess that distinguised himself from the competiton to mate and breed would probably be so busy that he would not have time to go and hunt food for his harem anyway.

Dancing David · 3rd February 2013, 05:07 PM

Humans are alone with chimps having free cycling estrus

Baffled · 3rd February 2013, 07:28 PM

I'm left wondering:

Originally Posted by marplots

So why are there still monkeys?

What's a "still monkey"?

marplots · 3rd February 2013, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Baffled

I'm left wondering:

What's a "still monkey"?

It's the kid you hire to guard the operation when you make a run into town to buy more sugar. The kid is placed in a tree with a walkie talkie and lets you know if the revenuers show up.

Toontown · 3rd February 2013, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dancing David

Humans are alone with chimps having free cycling estrus

That is unacceptable. There should be chaperones present whenever chimps are having free cycling estrus.

Filippo Lippi · 3rd February 2013, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by Baffled

I'm left wondering:

What's a "still monkey"?

One that hasn't been carbonated

Baffled · 4th February 2013, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by marplots

It's the kid you hire to guard the operation when you make a run into town to buy more sugar. The kid is placed in a tree with a walkie talkie and lets you know if the revenuers show up.

Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi

One that hasn't been carbonated

Oh, I thought it was this: http://shop.gestalten.com/monkey-47-sloe.html

Quote:

Monkey 47 is an extraordinary gin, distilled by Christoph Keller for Alexander Stein of Black Forest Distillers, using an old recipe with exactly 47 ingredients plus the super soft water of an own source at the Black Forest.

Distilled monkey ingredients, yum!

Dancing David · 4th February 2013, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Toontown

That is unacceptable. There should be chaperones present whenever chimps are having free cycling estrus.

Halfcentaur · 4th February 2013, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Another hypothesis that makes some sense is the loss of the strong jaw muscle attachments to the skull ridge was needed for the brain to grow bigger. In the other great apes these muscles and tendons limit brain growth.

An episode of NOVA I believe was discussing this theory, and they implied the decline in the size of the jaw muscles lines up well with the first evidence we have of fire being used as well as correlating with when the digestive tract began to change in order to accommodate cooked meat which correlated with the shrinking of our teeth to better adapt to cooked food, all suggesting the theory with cook fires that groups would gather around the fire to eat cooked meat and food, which would lead to our tendency to tolerate each other in close proximity for extended periods of time as well as a good place to develop language for communication around the fire in such close proximity, stories/discussion/mediation etc.

I thought it was interesting and all of these developments seemed to roughly correlate around each other in the way they presented the evidence.

2nd February 2013, 01:34 PM	#41
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,799	There are a lot of chicken and egg hypotheses on whether walking came first or not. I think one hypothesis was interesting in that the brain requires a lot of cooling and it took the change in gravity assist and changes in cerebral venous drainage to effect that cooling allowing the brain to develop more. Another hypothesis that makes some sense is the loss of the strong jaw muscle attachments to the skull ridge was needed for the brain to grow bigger. In the other great apes these muscles and tendons limit brain growth. Then of course there are the freeing of the hands hypotheses. I believe the answer is, a lot of different changes in anatomy contributed to the evolution of the brain.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

2nd February 2013, 05:26 PM	#42
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,643	Originally Posted by autumn1971 I guess you've never seen a hippo poop. It can fire that stuff ten meters or so. Now there's an evolutionary just-so story I'd like to hear about. Obviously, the ability to fling poo around with your tail has a survival benefit, right? There's a PhD awaiting the creative researcher who can outline the general theory of poo-volution.
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,643	Last edited by marplots; 2nd February 2013 at 05:28 PM.

3rd February 2013, 05:07 PM	#44
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,919	Humans are alone with chimps having free cycling estrus
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager

3rd February 2013, 07:28 PM	#45
Baffled Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Transcona Posts: 314	I'm left wondering: Originally Posted by marplots So why are there still monkeys? What's a "still monkey"?
	__________________ Wants to be a saint rather than a knight.

3rd February 2013, 09:21 PM	#46
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,643	Originally Posted by Baffled I'm left wondering: What's a "still monkey"? It's the kid you hire to guard the operation when you make a run into town to buy more sugar. The kid is placed in a tree with a walkie talkie and lets you know if the revenuers show up.
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,643

2nd February 2013, 06:16 PM	#43
rofl Student Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: earth Posts: 43	Walking upright and hurling poo? Both facinating, yes, but there is another usually overlooked are of evolution that needs a bit of research and study. In the area of competing to intoduce ones genes to the gene pool and get laid a lot. The virilty of animals compared to humans indicates that they were far luckier in evolution if the goal of the game is to reproduce and do it a lot. The libido of lions for example during the mating season in very impressive. I remember reading somewhere the male is capable of having sex a few hundred times a day. I googled around but I couldn't find any links to prove it yet. My point is that animals got a pretty good deal from evolution when it comes to their reproduction abilities. Humans have many impressive advantages but not all of them. I saw a pair of nads on a ram not long ago and they are pretty impressive. You'd need something like that to get a of sheep pregnant during the breeding season. High five for evolution. Ironically any human with sexual prowess that distinguised himself from the competiton to mate and breed would probably be so busy that he would not have time to go and hunt food for his harem anyway.

3rd February 2013, 09:38 PM	#47
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,646	Originally Posted by Dancing David Humans are alone with chimps having free cycling estrus That is unacceptable. There should be chaperones present whenever chimps are having free cycling estrus.
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,646	__________________ SEARCH NOW THE SPHERES PROBE THE UNIVERSE SEND BACK WORD WHAT FORCE SO IRRESISTIBLE AS THE WILL OF FREE MEN

3rd February 2013, 11:23 PM	#48
Filippo Lippi Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nottingham Posts: 1,591	Originally Posted by Baffled I'm left wondering: What's a "still monkey"? One that hasn't been carbonated
	__________________ "There is no refutation of Darwinian evolution in existence. If a refutation ever were to come about, it would come from a scientist, and not an idiot." - Richard Dawkins

4th February 2013, 12:36 AM	#49
Baffled Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Transcona Posts: 314	Originally Posted by marplots It's the kid you hire to guard the operation when you make a run into town to buy more sugar. The kid is placed in a tree with a walkie talkie and lets you know if the revenuers show up. Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi One that hasn't been carbonated Oh, I thought it was this: http://shop.gestalten.com/monkey-47-sloe.html Quote: Monkey 47 is an extraordinary gin, distilled by Christoph Keller for Alexander Stein of Black Forest Distillers, using an old recipe with exactly 47 ingredients plus the super soft water of an own source at the Black Forest. Distilled monkey ingredients, yum!
	__________________ Wants to be a saint rather than a knight.

4th February 2013, 10:45 AM	#50
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,919	Originally Posted by Toontown That is unacceptable. There should be chaperones present whenever chimps are having free cycling estrus.
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager

4th February 2013, 05:30 PM	#51
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 6,004	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Another hypothesis that makes some sense is the loss of the strong jaw muscle attachments to the skull ridge was needed for the brain to grow bigger. In the other great apes these muscles and tendons limit brain growth. An episode of NOVA I believe was discussing this theory, and they implied the decline in the size of the jaw muscles lines up well with the first evidence we have of fire being used as well as correlating with when the digestive tract began to change in order to accommodate cooked meat which correlated with the shrinking of our teeth to better adapt to cooked food, all suggesting the theory with cook fires that groups would gather around the fire to eat cooked meat and food, which would lead to our tendency to tolerate each other in close proximity for extended periods of time as well as a good place to develop language for communication around the fire in such close proximity, stories/discussion/mediation etc. I thought it was interesting and all of these developments seemed to roughly correlate around each other in the way they presented the evidence.
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 6,004