Does the BFRO (and other BF researchers) talk people into seeing Bigfoot? - Page 2

StankApe · 13th November 2012, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by GT/CS

So which government agency would be interested in Bipto's bogus organization?

RedRatSnake · 13th November 2012, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by GT/CS

So which government agency would be interested in hearing about Bipto's apparent misuse of his non-profit status?

Hopefully the IRS, but BF is such a joke it's going to take a big rip off before the G men notice it, Perhaps this stupid blimp thing with Meldumb will get things noticed, people pay tuition for an education not to pay some yahoo to go off and find Bigfoot, money waste is a big problem these days, if any University money is spent i think an audit should be a priority.

Sonny2 · 13th November 2012, 08:33 PM

Agree. Madrum is already making the U. look bad, the blimp will open the door to them looking ludicrous.

RedRatSnake · 13th November 2012, 08:53 PM

BF has been tolerated or just taken as a side joke with people, no one cares cause it's just one of those things you read about or see on the Sci Fi channel.
IMHO ~ The moment it makes the swap from fun to sum ( cleaver huh ! ) or soon as people have to pay to hunt this myth of an animal, the game changes and the fun is over.

I seriously think this thing with Meldrum's Blimp is going to backfire big time.

AlaskaBushPilot · 14th November 2012, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by GT/CS

So which government agency would be interested in hearing about Bipto's apparent misuse of his non-profit status?

To be exact, they are claiming themselves a charitable organization. The key tie-in to that hoax is the claim they are working for preservation of habitat.

But none of their work is actually directed at habitat preservation. At least none that they have demonstrated. No donation of land, no planting of bigfoot fruit trees - all of it directed at their alleged "bigfoot hunting".

If you are alleging that you are trying to kill a species that you also say is endangered and needs habitat protection, I would think the IRS would have to cry foul on that one.

tsig · 14th November 2012, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by StankApe

I know the BFF helps convince people to "see" Bigfoot. A former poster there who was always desperately trying to fit in and be part of the gang was very downtrodden that she had never had a sighting. Then POW!!!, she conveniently has a sighting while riding in the car with her hubby!!!

many eyes were rolled among the skeptics and many of the bleevers, yet a good 50% of the forum coddled her in a warm blanket of "one of us, one of us".

Seriously, this "elusive" creature magically appears to the one person who stated every single day how much she would love to see one? PUHHHLEAZE.

Yes, it's like speaking in tongues in a tongues speaking church, until you cut loose with the LATADA-RABATATA-EOULOUIM you just aren't really one of the group.

If you do it while rolling on the floor, crying profusely and throwing out a couple of JESUS'S!! you might be headed for the ministry.

Sonny2 · 14th November 2012, 02:18 PM

Yup, seems like you have to pass the intiation rite in order to belong. Seeing Jesus at the heavenly gate or seeing Bigfoot out by the back gate, same mindset.

The Shrike · 14th November 2012, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot

But none of their work is actually directed at habitat preservation.

Indeed, the entire landscape surrounding their study area is national forest land. What's to "preserve"? Those bigfoots are already living in a bigfoot paradise.

StankApe · 14th November 2012, 03:17 PM

"we're spending most our lives living in a bigfoot paradise, I've tree knocked once or twice living in a Bigfoot paradise........."

AlaskaBushPilot · 14th November 2012, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by The Shrike

Indeed, the entire landscape surrounding their study area is national forest land. What's to "preserve"? Those bigfoots are already living in a bigfoot paradise.

Exactly. They aren't lobbying for additional lands, nor purchasing lands for donation.

Within these public lands they could argue for habitat preservation if they were supporting real animals, eg building ponds for ducks or planting acorn trees for deer - but even for this imaginary animal they are doing nothing specific for its alleged habitat.

Every penny of these donations are going into their private hobby that just happens to be sensationalized in a way that would bring them personal profit should they get their own TV show like the BFRO or branch off into their own expeditions, or earn salary like a number of other top tier con artists.

I am not going to be the one to do it, but even a letter to the IRS that was simultaneously published in a newspaper of wide circulation would probably bring some real heat where they would have to justify their tax write-offs. In fact, with enough publicity the IRS would probably make some kind of ruling on charitable status for nonexistent animals.

StankApe · 14th November 2012, 03:57 PM

Well, nobody would think something like this could possibly be worth even posting on a bigfoot blog unless they had some thoughts it might be real:

GT/CS · 14th November 2012, 04:03 PM

Here is TBRC's info.

http://www.guidestar.org/organizatio...nservancy.aspx

Basic Organization Information

TEXAS BIGFOOT RESEARCH CONSERVANCY
Physical Address: Plano, TX 75086
EIN: 20-8267639
NTEE Category: C Environmental Quality Protection, Beautification C30 (Natural Resource Conservation and Protection)
Year Founded: 2007 Ruling Year: 2007

Sonny2 · 14th November 2012, 04:47 PM

<long low whistle of amazement>

Jeez, doean't the IRS do due diligence on these sorts of things? Guess not.

River · 14th November 2012, 04:54 PM

Some people do not need any organizations to help them see bigfoot multiple times.

Sonny2 · 14th November 2012, 05:07 PM

LOL, man is she ever convincing (not). Isn't she affiliated with the dubious Bigfoot Ballyhoo bunch?

StankApe · 14th November 2012, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by River

Some people do not need any organizations to help them see bigfoot multiple times.

Castro · 14th November 2012, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by StankApe

Well, nobody would think something like this could possibly be worth even posting on a bigfoot blog unless they had some thoughts it might be real:

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?...pictureid=6934

...

RedRatSnake · 14th November 2012, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Castro

...

Well not from that angle anyway, maybe if Sas had a nice ass and some curvy legs, or the picture was from the front and we were looking at a nice rack some of the guys might be rooting for BF to be real ~

Sonny2 · 14th November 2012, 07:01 PM

That Bigfoot looks like he's whacking his head on the tree. Is that the real source of treeknocking? Frustrated BF?

RedRatSnake · 14th November 2012, 07:18 PM

Hahahahaha ~ That was good

Night Walker · 14th November 2012, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by StankApe

I think hoaxing (see lying) IS the driving force of footery. The PGF is a hoax, the trackways are all hoaxes. Ketchum's DNA thing was a hoax. In fact, if the higher ups didn't hoax every once in awhile, they would have nothing new to sell to the flock.

If that isn't a community based on a lie , well I don't know what is.

No, that's folklore which bonds locals to one another and gives meaning to local places. Lies don't do that, stories do. It harkens back to something primal in all of us...

Originally Posted by Castro

Storytelling is maybe not lying but don't you think that the lie begins when the storyteller acts to convince people that his story is real?

The world is a stage. We all don different masks in order to play a variety of roles which occasionally may conflict with one another. Is that dishonesty or is that simply the baggage that comes with being complex humans?

Don't get me wrong - lies do play a role in the perpetuation of Bigfoot but it is just as mistaken to shoe-horn the broader processes into "dishonesty" as it is to shoe-horn natural anomolies into evidence of Bigfoot. To do so is blatantly cynical and misses the positives and the appeal of Bigfoot which is what ultimately draws people to and perpetuates the phenomenon. Is this not the real mystery?

Much can be learned about the Bigfoot phenomenon from understanding deception but that doesn't make it any more dishonest than illusions and acting...

Originally Posted by Slocie's

I agree there is folklore in the Sasquatch, that's one thing Kathy Strain gets right when she talks about the hairy man, but that's all it is, just a lot of fairy tales, stories and tall tales.

The Hairy Man is folklore of the past whereas Bigfoot is the folklore of today. It is a living process even though the quarry is imaginary. Bigfoot is the expression of culture, the performance of belief...

StankApe · 15th November 2012, 12:55 AM

i don't think you have spent much time dealing directly with footers. It's pretty much entirely a hoax based game. Invented to separate other people from their money.

Castro · 15th November 2012, 03:06 AM

Originally Posted by Night Walker

The world is a stage. We all don different masks in order to play a variety of roles which occasionally may conflict with one another. Is that dishonesty or is that simply the baggage that comes with being complex humans? ....

....Much can be learned about the Bigfoot phenomenon from understanding deception but that doesn't make it any more dishonest than illusions and acting...

Well, I think it's the way many scammers reason to avoid guilty feeling.
That and the "I give them what they ask for" thing or the "people get what they deserve" thing.

There's nothing wrong with storytelling as long as the audience is aware that the stories are fictitious, but when people believe they are real (or when the storyteller tries to make people believe they are real), storytelling is just lying and therefore dishonest IMO.

mikeyx · 15th November 2012, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Sonny2

That Bigfoot looks like he's whacking his head on the tree. Is that the real source of treeknocking? Frustrated BF?

Frustration at the hands of Shawn Evidence and Lindsay and others on Facebook.

Sonny2 · 15th November 2012, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Night Walker

No, that's folklore which bonds locals to one another and gives meaning to local places. Lies don't do that, stories do. It harkens back to something primal in all of us...

I really think NW is right. If you watch the town meetings on Finding BF, you see that element as the locals tell their stories. The looks on their faces are dramatic and fearful. But along with this is what StankApe says are the liars and cons, and he/she's right, too. It seems like two different things at play, the folklore aspect and the con aspect. I think the folklore aspect of it plays to something primal, and that's what allows the con aspect to flourish.

Night Walker · 15th November 2012, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by StankApe

i don't think you have spent much time dealing directly with footers. It's pretty much entirely a hoax based game. Invented to separate other people from their money.

I'm not much fun on expeditions: "What was that?!? Did you hear/see that?!?" "Well, let's go take a look..."

The Yowie-scene here in Oz is much smaller than in the U.S. and Canada (Why is there no Bigfoot-scene in Mexico?) but the processes and outcomes are very similar.

Making stuff up and hoaxing within a certain theme (ie Hairy Man/Bigfoot) is traditional (people have always done it) and that is folklore/storytelling. That it may be perceived as real adds to its attraction and that it fools people who you'd think should know better is testimony to the power of its attraction. The stories ("lies") of today will live on as part of the lore which inspires future generations long after we are all dead and gone.

There's far more to it than $$$. I venture that the overwhelming majority of Bigfoot seekers spend far more than they earn (if they earn anything at all) from their hobby. For those of us who became actively engaged in the possibility of Bigfoot but realised that something else entirely is going on it is perhaps easy to become cynical. I just don't think that is helpful in getting a better understanding of what that something else really is.

Furthermore, I think that it is possible for both Bigfoot-skeptics and -believers to work together and that both can learn much from the other side (I have a theory that the Bigfoot experience can be induced in almost anyone). After all, both sides are interested in the same subject. Cynicism from either side present a roadblock to that happening so round and round we continue to go...

Night Walker · 15th November 2012, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Sonny2

I really think NW is right. If you watch the town meetings on Finding BF, you see that element as the locals tell their stories. The looks on their faces are dramatic and fearful. But along with this is what StankApe says are the liars and cons, and he/she's right, too. It seems like two different things at play, the folklore aspect and the con aspect. I think the folklore aspect of it plays to something primal, and that's what allows the con aspect to flourish.

Good point. Bigfoot cons definitely exist and because they are about $$$ they often receive the highest profile within the lore. But the conditions for cons to flourish are already present within the broader Hairy-Man/Bigfoot folklore. It is fascinating that those with the will to deceive merge seemlessly with those with the need to believe but that is how many "paranormal" subjects flourish. I think the rise of Bigfoot after Willow Creek has many similarities with the rise of Spiritualism after the Fox sisters...

GT/CS · 15th November 2012, 03:51 PM

I think a lot of the normal everyday folks who think they see something may believe they saw a bigfoot because they have not researched the subject, but I also think that the folks at the upper end of the bigfoot researching world know there is no such animal as bigfoot, and they are highly unethical people.

Sonny2 · 15th November 2012, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by GT/CS

I think a lot of the normal everyday folks who think they see something may believe they saw a bigfoot because they have not researched the subject, but I also think that the folks at the upper end of the bigfoot researching world know there is no such animal as bigfoot, and they are highly unethical people.

Agree 100%

Sonny2 · 16th November 2012, 03:22 PM

From the Bigfoot Lunch Club:

Bigfoot Researchers Declare 2013 "The Year of the Bigfoot"

Bigfoot researchers have noticed an increase in the quantity and quality of Bigfoot videos submitted to Facebook.com/FindBigfoot (FBFB). It's only a matter of time before this species is discovered. FBFB declares 2013 "The Year of the Bigfoot."

Bigfoot videos have to be hoaxes cause the species isn't yet discovered, in their own words. Do these guys ever take the time to listen to what they're saying?

AlaskaBushPilot · 16th November 2012, 05:39 PM

I cannot agree to the "harmless lie" viewpoint because it inculcates antisocial character.

Look how nasty the behavior is under the superficial "happy face": the instant they're confronted with perfectly reasonable questions it's lying by omission, lying by inclusion of extraneous information, outright lying, selective memory, selective attention, playing dumb, evasion, diversion, and all the rest of it.

That behavior is insulting enough, but outright personal insults are going to be used as well.

You have to understand that antisocial character disorders are often the most charming, glib people you will ever meet. They disarm people with that cheerful act they put on while lying and utilizing every deceptive tactic in the book. So don't confuse the smile on their face with what they're actually doing.

RedRatSnake · 16th November 2012, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Sonny2

From the Bigfoot Lunch Club:

[i]Bigfoot Researchers Declare 2013 "The Year of the Bigfoot"

So wasn't the last several years, hell every year lately has been "The Year of the Bigfoot". Problem is he just don't seem to be around to care any.

Long Live The Hoax

Sonny2 · 17th November 2012, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot

I cannot agree to the "harmless lie" viewpoint because it inculcates antisocial character.

Look how nasty the behavior is under the superficial "happy face": the instant they're confronted with perfectly reasonable questions it's lying by omission, lying by inclusion of extraneous information, outright lying, selective memory, selective attention, playing dumb, evasion, diversion, and all the rest of it.

Yes, a number of posters here could attest to that with up close and personal stories.

Sonny2 · 17th November 2012, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Slocie's

So wasn't the last several years, hell every year lately has been "The Year of the Bigfoot". Problem is he just don't seem to be around to care any.

Long Live The Hoax

I think it's interesting how the footers are now using military names and such for their searches: Operation Persistance, the Falcon Project, etc. It's almost like they feel they have to esaclate the search into extreme proportions now that everything else has failed. Then they turn around and say that you don't find BF, it finds you.

Operation Exasperation
Operation Futility
Operation Fail

Jodie · 17th November 2012, 07:16 PM

LOLOL....I just thought that was tongue in cheek. When we played war games as a kid we called our teams by military names and the target was some cool name borrowed from Mission Impossible.

Sonny2 · 18th November 2012, 04:38 PM

Mission Impossible works here, too. LOL

RedRatSnake · 26th November 2012, 08:02 PM

I would say this Ketchum DNA fiasco is a good candidate for promoting Bigfoot.

Sonny2 · 26th November 2012, 08:07 PM

Man, the folks at the BFF are jumping up and down in their BF costumes over that.

RedRatSnake · 26th November 2012, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Sonny2

Man, the folks at the BFF are jumping up and down in their BF costumes over that.

If I was still a footer I would be too, the news is positive in it's own way and that's all I would be looking for, no need to question anything, my Superiors said it was proof of BF and that's all I would need to defend the result's.

Sonny2 · 26th November 2012, 08:41 PM

Well, they've already have proof in all the tracks and sightings for years, so now they have even more of such proof. Totally unsubstantiated and unverifiable. It's just gone to new heights of insanity as the hoaxers try to become more sophisticated.

I once told a footer friend that they took the word "gullible" from the dictionary and put her picture in instead.

She replied, "Really?"

13th November 2012, 07:54 PM	#41
StankApe Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,643	Originally Posted by GT/CS So which government agency would be interested in Bipto's bogus organization?
StankApe Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,643

14th November 2012, 03:17 PM	#49
StankApe Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,643	"we're spending most our lives living in a bigfoot paradise, I've tree knocked once or twice living in a Bigfoot paradise........."
StankApe Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,643

14th November 2012, 03:57 PM	#51
StankApe Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,643	Well, nobody would think something like this could possibly be worth even posting on a bigfoot blog unless they had some thoughts it might be real:
StankApe Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,643

14th November 2012, 04:03 PM	#52
GT/CS Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,626	Here is TBRC's info. http://www.guidestar.org/organizatio...nservancy.aspx Basic Organization Information TEXAS BIGFOOT RESEARCH CONSERVANCY Physical Address: Plano, TX 75086 EIN: 20-8267639 NTEE Category: C Environmental Quality Protection, Beautification C30 (Natural Resource Conservation and Protection) Year Founded: 2007 Ruling Year: 2007
GT/CS Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,626	__________________ SweatyYeti or Bill Munns would be my vote for looking at this - BFSleuth @ BFF I've got plenty of common sense! I just choose to ignore it. - Calvin; October 15, 1986 Last edited by GT/CS; 14th November 2012 at 04:05 PM.

14th November 2012, 04:54 PM	#54
River Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,744	Some people do not need any organizations to help them see bigfoot multiple times.
River Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,744	__________________ “Don't believe everything you see on the Internet.” ― Abraham Lincoln

13th November 2012, 08:27 PM	#42
RedRatSnake Slithering Through life Join Date: May 2008 Location: Southie, Massachusetts. Posts: 1,625	Originally Posted by GT/CS So which government agency would be interested in hearing about Bipto's apparent misuse of his non-profit status? Hopefully the IRS, but BF is such a joke it's going to take a big rip off before the G men notice it, Perhaps this stupid blimp thing with Meldumb will get things noticed, people pay tuition for an education not to pay some yahoo to go off and find Bigfoot, money waste is a big problem these days, if any University money is spent i think an audit should be a priority.

13th November 2012, 08:33 PM	#43
Sonny2 Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Dust on the Wind Posts: 669	Agree. Madrum is already making the U. look bad, the blimp will open the door to them looking ludicrous.

13th November 2012, 08:53 PM	#44
RedRatSnake Slithering Through life Join Date: May 2008 Location: Southie, Massachusetts. Posts: 1,625	BF has been tolerated or just taken as a side joke with people, no one cares cause it's just one of those things you read about or see on the Sci Fi channel. IMHO ~ The moment it makes the swap from fun to sum ( cleaver huh ! ) or soon as people have to pay to hunt this myth of an animal, the game changes and the fun is over. I seriously think this thing with Meldrum's Blimp is going to backfire big time.

14th November 2012, 01:38 PM	#45
AlaskaBushPilot Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,609	Originally Posted by GT/CS So which government agency would be interested in hearing about Bipto's apparent misuse of his non-profit status? To be exact, they are claiming themselves a charitable organization. The key tie-in to that hoax is the claim they are working for preservation of habitat. But none of their work is actually directed at habitat preservation. At least none that they have demonstrated. No donation of land, no planting of bigfoot fruit trees - all of it directed at their alleged "bigfoot hunting". If you are alleging that you are trying to kill a species that you also say is endangered and needs habitat protection, I would think the IRS would have to cry foul on that one.

14th November 2012, 01:47 PM	#46
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 27,232	Originally Posted by StankApe I know the BFF helps convince people to "see" Bigfoot. A former poster there who was always desperately trying to fit in and be part of the gang was very downtrodden that she had never had a sighting. Then POW!!!, she conveniently has a sighting while riding in the car with her hubby!!! many eyes were rolled among the skeptics and many of the bleevers, yet a good 50% of the forum coddled her in a warm blanket of "one of us, one of us". Seriously, this "elusive" creature magically appears to the one person who stated every single day how much she would love to see one? PUHHHLEAZE. Yes, it's like speaking in tongues in a tongues speaking church, until you cut loose with the LATADA-RABATATA-EOULOUIM you just aren't really one of the group. If you do it while rolling on the floor, crying profusely and throwing out a couple of JESUS'S!! you might be headed for the ministry.

14th November 2012, 02:18 PM	#47
Sonny2 Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Dust on the Wind Posts: 669	Yup, seems like you have to pass the intiation rite in order to belong. Seeing Jesus at the heavenly gate or seeing Bigfoot out by the back gate, same mindset.

14th November 2012, 03:11 PM	#48
The Shrike Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: USA Posts: 1,836	Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot But none of their work is actually directed at habitat preservation. Indeed, the entire landscape surrounding their study area is national forest land. What's to "preserve"? Those bigfoots are already living in a bigfoot paradise.

14th November 2012, 03:48 PM	#50
AlaskaBushPilot Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,609	Originally Posted by The Shrike Indeed, the entire landscape surrounding their study area is national forest land. What's to "preserve"? Those bigfoots are already living in a bigfoot paradise. Exactly. They aren't lobbying for additional lands, nor purchasing lands for donation. Within these public lands they could argue for habitat preservation if they were supporting real animals, eg building ponds for ducks or planting acorn trees for deer - but even for this imaginary animal they are doing nothing specific for its alleged habitat. Every penny of these donations are going into their private hobby that just happens to be sensationalized in a way that would bring them personal profit should they get their own TV show like the BFRO or branch off into their own expeditions, or earn salary like a number of other top tier con artists. I am not going to be the one to do it, but even a letter to the IRS that was simultaneously published in a newspaper of wide circulation would probably bring some real heat where they would have to justify their tax write-offs. In fact, with enough publicity the IRS would probably make some kind of ruling on charitable status for nonexistent animals.

14th November 2012, 04:47 PM	#53
Sonny2 Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Dust on the Wind Posts: 669	<long low whistle of amazement> Jeez, doean't the IRS do due diligence on these sorts of things? Guess not.

14th November 2012, 05:07 PM	#55
Sonny2 Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Dust on the Wind Posts: 669	LOL, man is she ever convincing (not). Isn't she affiliated with the dubious Bigfoot Ballyhoo bunch?

14th November 2012, 05:40 PM	#56
StankApe Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,643	Originally Posted by River Some people do not need any organizations to help them see bigfoot multiple times.
StankApe Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,643

14th November 2012, 06:45 PM	#58
RedRatSnake Slithering Through life Join Date: May 2008 Location: Southie, Massachusetts. Posts: 1,625	Originally Posted by Castro ... Well not from that angle anyway, maybe if Sas had a nice ass and some curvy legs, or the picture was from the front and we were looking at a nice rack some of the guys might be rooting for BF to be real ~

14th November 2012, 07:01 PM	#59
Sonny2 Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Dust on the Wind Posts: 669	That Bigfoot looks like he's whacking his head on the tree. Is that the real source of treeknocking? Frustrated BF?

14th November 2012, 07:18 PM	#60
RedRatSnake Slithering Through life Join Date: May 2008 Location: Southie, Massachusetts. Posts: 1,625	Hahahahaha ~ That was good

14th November 2012, 11:50 PM	#61
Night Walker Scholar Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: "Terror" Australis Posts: 119	Originally Posted by StankApe I think hoaxing (see lying) IS the driving force of footery. The PGF is a hoax, the trackways are all hoaxes. Ketchum's DNA thing was a hoax. In fact, if the higher ups didn't hoax every once in awhile, they would have nothing new to sell to the flock. If that isn't a community based on a lie , well I don't know what is. No, that's folklore which bonds locals to one another and gives meaning to local places. Lies don't do that, stories do. It harkens back to something primal in all of us... Originally Posted by Castro Storytelling is maybe not lying but don't you think that the lie begins when the storyteller acts to convince people that his story is real? The world is a stage. We all don different masks in order to play a variety of roles which occasionally may conflict with one another. Is that dishonesty or is that simply the baggage that comes with being complex humans? Don't get me wrong - lies do play a role in the perpetuation of Bigfoot but it is just as mistaken to shoe-horn the broader processes into "dishonesty" as it is to shoe-horn natural anomolies into evidence of Bigfoot. To do so is blatantly cynical and misses the positives and the appeal of Bigfoot which is what ultimately draws people to and perpetuates the phenomenon. Is this not the real mystery? Much can be learned about the Bigfoot phenomenon from understanding deception but that doesn't make it any more dishonest than illusions and acting... Originally Posted by Slocie's I agree there is folklore in the Sasquatch, that's one thing Kathy Strain gets right when she talks about the hairy man, but that's all it is, just a lot of fairy tales, stories and tall tales. The Hairy Man is folklore of the past whereas Bigfoot is the folklore of today. It is a living process even though the quarry is imaginary. Bigfoot is the expression of culture, the performance of belief...

15th November 2012, 12:55 AM	#62
StankApe Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,643	i don't think you have spent much time dealing directly with footers. It's pretty much entirely a hoax based game. Invented to separate other people from their money.
StankApe Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,643

15th November 2012, 03:06 AM	#63
Castro Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 291	Originally Posted by Night Walker The world is a stage. We all don different masks in order to play a variety of roles which occasionally may conflict with one another. Is that dishonesty or is that simply the baggage that comes with being complex humans? .... ....Much can be learned about the Bigfoot phenomenon from understanding deception but that doesn't make it any more dishonest than illusions and acting... Well, I think it's the way many scammers reason to avoid guilty feeling. That and the "I give them what they ask for" thing or the "people get what they deserve" thing. There's nothing wrong with storytelling as long as the audience is aware that the stories are fictitious, but when people believe they are real (or when the storyteller tries to make people believe they are real), storytelling is just lying and therefore dishonest IMO.
Castro Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 291	Last edited by Castro; 15th November 2012 at 04:54 AM.

15th November 2012, 07:27 AM	#64
mikeyx Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,570	Originally Posted by Sonny2 That Bigfoot looks like he's whacking his head on the tree. Is that the real source of treeknocking? Frustrated BF? Frustration at the hands of Shawn Evidence and Lindsay and others on Facebook.
mikeyx Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,570

15th November 2012, 07:35 AM	#65
Sonny2 Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Dust on the Wind Posts: 669	Originally Posted by Night Walker No, that's folklore which bonds locals to one another and gives meaning to local places. Lies don't do that, stories do. It harkens back to something primal in all of us... I really think NW is right. If you watch the town meetings on Finding BF, you see that element as the locals tell their stories. The looks on their faces are dramatic and fearful. But along with this is what StankApe says are the liars and cons, and he/she's right, too. It seems like two different things at play, the folklore aspect and the con aspect. I think the folklore aspect of it plays to something primal, and that's what allows the con aspect to flourish.

15th November 2012, 02:57 PM	#66
Night Walker Scholar Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: "Terror" Australis Posts: 119	Originally Posted by StankApe i don't think you have spent much time dealing directly with footers. It's pretty much entirely a hoax based game. Invented to separate other people from their money. I'm not much fun on expeditions: "What was that?!? Did you hear/see that?!?" "Well, let's go take a look..." The Yowie-scene here in Oz is much smaller than in the U.S. and Canada (Why is there no Bigfoot-scene in Mexico?) but the processes and outcomes are very similar. Making stuff up and hoaxing within a certain theme (ie Hairy Man/Bigfoot) is traditional (people have always done it) and that is folklore/storytelling. That it may be perceived as real adds to its attraction and that it fools people who you'd think should know better is testimony to the power of its attraction. The stories ("lies") of today will live on as part of the lore which inspires future generations long after we are all dead and gone. There's far more to it than $$$. I venture that the overwhelming majority of Bigfoot seekers spend far more than they earn (if they earn anything at all) from their hobby. For those of us who became actively engaged in the possibility of Bigfoot but realised that something else entirely is going on it is perhaps easy to become cynical. I just don't think that is helpful in getting a better understanding of what that something else really is. Furthermore, I think that it is possible for both Bigfoot-skeptics and -believers to work together and that both can learn much from the other side (I have a theory that the Bigfoot experience can be induced in almost anyone). After all, both sides are interested in the same subject. Cynicism from either side present a roadblock to that happening so round and round we continue to go...

15th November 2012, 03:06 PM	#67
Night Walker Scholar Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: "Terror" Australis Posts: 119	Originally Posted by Sonny2 I really think NW is right. If you watch the town meetings on Finding BF, you see that element as the locals tell their stories. The looks on their faces are dramatic and fearful. But along with this is what StankApe says are the liars and cons, and he/she's right, too. It seems like two different things at play, the folklore aspect and the con aspect. I think the folklore aspect of it plays to something primal, and that's what allows the con aspect to flourish. Good point. Bigfoot cons definitely exist and because they are about $$$ they often receive the highest profile within the lore. But the conditions for cons to flourish are already present within the broader Hairy-Man/Bigfoot folklore. It is fascinating that those with the will to deceive merge seemlessly with those with the need to believe but that is how many "paranormal" subjects flourish. I think the rise of Bigfoot after Willow Creek has many similarities with the rise of Spiritualism after the Fox sisters...

15th November 2012, 03:51 PM	#68
GT/CS Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,626	I think a lot of the normal everyday folks who think they see something may believe they saw a bigfoot because they have not researched the subject, but I also think that the folks at the upper end of the bigfoot researching world know there is no such animal as bigfoot, and they are highly unethical people.
GT/CS Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,626	__________________ SweatyYeti or Bill Munns would be my vote for looking at this - BFSleuth @ BFF I've got plenty of common sense! I just choose to ignore it. - Calvin; October 15, 1986

15th November 2012, 03:54 PM	#69
Sonny2 Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Dust on the Wind Posts: 669	Originally Posted by GT/CS I think a lot of the normal everyday folks who think they see something may believe they saw a bigfoot because they have not researched the subject, but I also think that the folks at the upper end of the bigfoot researching world know there is no such animal as bigfoot, and they are highly unethical people. Agree 100%

16th November 2012, 03:22 PM	#70
Sonny2 Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Dust on the Wind Posts: 669	From the Bigfoot Lunch Club: Bigfoot Researchers Declare 2013 "The Year of the Bigfoot" Bigfoot researchers have noticed an increase in the quantity and quality of Bigfoot videos submitted to Facebook.com/FindBigfoot (FBFB). It's only a matter of time before this species is discovered. FBFB declares 2013 "The Year of the Bigfoot." Bigfoot videos have to be hoaxes cause the species isn't yet discovered, in their own words. Do these guys ever take the time to listen to what they're saying?

16th November 2012, 05:39 PM	#71
AlaskaBushPilot Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,609	I cannot agree to the "harmless lie" viewpoint because it inculcates antisocial character. Look how nasty the behavior is under the superficial "happy face": the instant they're confronted with perfectly reasonable questions it's lying by omission, lying by inclusion of extraneous information, outright lying, selective memory, selective attention, playing dumb, evasion, diversion, and all the rest of it. That behavior is insulting enough, but outright personal insults are going to be used as well. You have to understand that antisocial character disorders are often the most charming, glib people you will ever meet. They disarm people with that cheerful act they put on while lying and utilizing every deceptive tactic in the book. So don't confuse the smile on their face with what they're actually doing.

16th November 2012, 06:52 PM	#72
RedRatSnake Slithering Through life Join Date: May 2008 Location: Southie, Massachusetts. Posts: 1,625	Originally Posted by Sonny2 From the Bigfoot Lunch Club: [i]Bigfoot Researchers Declare 2013 "The Year of the Bigfoot" So wasn't the last several years, hell every year lately has been "The Year of the Bigfoot". Problem is he just don't seem to be around to care any. Long Live The Hoax

17th November 2012, 07:56 AM	#73
Sonny2 Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Dust on the Wind Posts: 669	Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot I cannot agree to the "harmless lie" viewpoint because it inculcates antisocial character. Look how nasty the behavior is under the superficial "happy face": the instant they're confronted with perfectly reasonable questions it's lying by omission, lying by inclusion of extraneous information, outright lying, selective memory, selective attention, playing dumb, evasion, diversion, and all the rest of it. Yes, a number of posters here could attest to that with up close and personal stories.

17th November 2012, 07:06 PM	#74
Sonny2 Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Dust on the Wind Posts: 669	Originally Posted by Slocie's So wasn't the last several years, hell every year lately has been "The Year of the Bigfoot". Problem is he just don't seem to be around to care any. Long Live The Hoax I think it's interesting how the footers are now using military names and such for their searches: Operation Persistance, the Falcon Project, etc. It's almost like they feel they have to esaclate the search into extreme proportions now that everything else has failed. Then they turn around and say that you don't find BF, it finds you. Operation Exasperation Operation Futility Operation Fail

17th November 2012, 07:16 PM	#75
Jodie Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,919	LOLOL....I just thought that was tongue in cheek. When we played war games as a kid we called our teams by military names and the target was some cool name borrowed from Mission Impossible.
Jodie Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,919	__________________ testis unus, testis nullus quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

18th November 2012, 04:38 PM	#76
Sonny2 Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Dust on the Wind Posts: 669	Mission Impossible works here, too. LOL