I just got a broken Verge & Foliot clock...

BenBurch · 30th November 2007, 07:13 PM

I'm busy fixing it.

What an interesting thing.

Some of the wood isn't in great shape and I had to go to the doll house shop to find hardwood doweling as thin as I needed.

The roots simultaneously of all modern machines pass through this sort of mechanism, and it is amazing how crude they can be and still function.

This sort of clock isn't in vogue in the least few centuries for a good reason, though, the verge escapement, because it is a backlash escapement cannot be all that accurate, and the foliot changes length due to temperature variations and even humidity, being wooden, and these can gain or lose an hour in the day.

When I compare this to a ship's chronometer of only 500 years later it is like going from the Kitty Hawk Flyer to a 777. One wonders at the number of ideas that each had to take root to go from one to the other, and at the adaptability of we humans to be able to accomplish this; Our evolution fitted us to hunting and gathering - we learned to do these things against our nature, not because of it I feel.

And I wonder if it is only because man is the only animal to know discontent? Because you can really only have that if you can imagine something better.

BenBurch · 30th November 2007, 09:16 PM

Who would have thought that the really frustrating part of this would be tying the knots on the thread that suspends the foliot?

Zep · 1st December 2007, 02:39 AM

Pics?

BenBurch · 1st December 2007, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Zep

Pics?

Good idea. I've almost got it set up and when I do I'll shoot a short movie of it working.

Myriad · 1st December 2007, 08:54 AM

As pending complete repair you've had the clock in a broken condition for some amount of time, have you attempted to test the popular conjecture that it is right twice a day? If so, with what result?

Respectfully,
Myriad

BenBurch · 1st December 2007, 09:22 AM

It is indeed right twice a day! This is much more accurate than its running state which can be expected to only be exactly right once every 20 days or so, but ON AVERAGE, the running clock is closer to the correct time than the stopped state.

I hope to have it running today... How do surgeons tie those knots? I am so ham-handed when it comes to manipulating threads that I can not get the knots tied with the thread still the right length! I am going to try winding the attachment on the suspending twig (3/16" hardwood - its a twig) and then fixing it with a drop of wax...

BenBurch · 2nd December 2007, 10:59 AM

...google video seems to take forever to put these online once you upload them;

Google Video This video is not hosted by the JREF, the JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

wahrheit · 2nd December 2007, 11:20 AM

Thanks for the video! Clock seems to work, but the tick tock sounds a bit irregular...

PS: I'm quite an idiot.

At the beginning of the video I thought you were holding the camera at 45 degrees, the clock lying on a table...

bruto · 2nd December 2007, 02:46 PM

Ben, that is a pretty cool clock. A few questions arise:

What is its actual age?

How precise do the pins on the escapement have to be?

Are plans available?

BenBurch · 2nd December 2007, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

Ben, that is a pretty cool clock. A few questions arise:

What is its actual age?

How precise do the pins on the escapement have to be?

Are plans available?

Well, this one likely is one of many similar items sold in the 1970s. The pins only need to be correct in number, and approximately in spacing, the actual position can be a bit sloppy. There are no fine tolerances anywhere here.

Plans for a number of wooden clocks can be found here; http://www.woodenclocks.co.uk/index.htm

BenBurch · 2nd December 2007, 06:04 PM

wahrheit,

Yes, the beat is irregular, these pretty much always are, and the "dead" part of the cycle is almost non-existent, hence they are very sensitive to changes in force and any other defect in the mechanism. In a more modern clock, the dead part of the beat is the vast majority of the cycle and the impulse to the oscillating element is only momentary.

bruto · 2nd December 2007, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Well, this one likely is one of many similar items sold in the 1970s. The pins only need to be correct in number, and approximately in spacing, the actual position can be a bit sloppy. There are no fine tolerances anywhere here.

Plans for a number of wooden clocks can be found here; http://www.woodenclocks.co.uk/index.htm

Thanks. Looks like potential fun.

BenBurch · 3rd December 2007, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by bruto

Thanks. Looks like potential fun.

You're most welcome.

BenBurch · 4th December 2007, 05:57 PM

Here is a complete kit, bit it isn't exactly a verge and foliot clock of the traditional sort; This has an added escapement that makes it more accurate or so the maker claims; http://www.clockplans.com/PAGE26.htm

30th November 2007, 07:13 PM	#1
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,147	I just got a broken Verge & Foliot clock... I'm busy fixing it. What an interesting thing. Some of the wood isn't in great shape and I had to go to the doll house shop to find hardwood doweling as thin as I needed. The roots simultaneously of all modern machines pass through this sort of mechanism, and it is amazing how crude they can be and still function. This sort of clock isn't in vogue in the least few centuries for a good reason, though, the verge escapement, because it is a backlash escapement cannot be all that accurate, and the foliot changes length due to temperature variations and even humidity, being wooden, and these can gain or lose an hour in the day. When I compare this to a ship's chronometer of only 500 years later it is like going from the Kitty Hawk Flyer to a 777. One wonders at the number of ideas that each had to take root to go from one to the other, and at the adaptability of we humans to be able to accomplish this; Our evolution fitted us to hunting and gathering - we learned to do these things against our nature, not because of it I feel. And I wonder if it is only because man is the only animal to know discontent? Because you can really only have that if you can imagine something better.
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30th November 2007, 09:16 PM	#2
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,147	Who would have thought that the really frustrating part of this would be tying the knots on the thread that suspends the foliot?
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1st December 2007, 02:39 AM	#3
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Pics?
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

1st December 2007, 06:24 AM	#4
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,147	Originally Posted by Zep Pics? Good idea. I've almost got it set up and when I do I'll shoot a short movie of it working.
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1st December 2007, 08:54 AM	#5
Myriad Hyperthetical Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,198	As pending complete repair you've had the clock in a broken condition for some amount of time, have you attempted to test the popular conjecture that it is right twice a day? If so, with what result? Respectfully, Myriad
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1st December 2007, 09:22 AM	#6
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,147	It is indeed right twice a day! This is much more accurate than its running state which can be expected to only be exactly right once every 20 days or so, but ON AVERAGE, the running clock is closer to the correct time than the stopped state. I hope to have it running today... How do surgeons tie those knots? I am so ham-handed when it comes to manipulating threads that I can not get the knots tied with the thread still the right length! I am going to try winding the attachment on the suspending twig (3/16" hardwood - its a twig) and then fixing it with a drop of wax...
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2nd December 2007, 11:20 AM	#8
wahrheit Pac-Man Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 5,591	Thanks for the video! Clock seems to work, but the tick tock sounds a bit irregular... PS: I'm quite an idiot. At the beginning of the video I thought you were holding the camera at 45 degrees, the clock lying on a table...
wahrheit Pac-Man Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 5,591	__________________ For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen. D. Adams -- THHGTTG You're a sick man. The Atheist

2nd December 2007, 02:46 PM	#9
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 11,187	Ben, that is a pretty cool clock. A few questions arise: What is its actual age? How precise do the pins on the escapement have to be? Are plans available?
	__________________ "Sir, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding.(Samuel Johnson) The gods are less for their love of praise....(Wendell Berry)

2nd December 2007, 05:54 PM	#10
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,147	Originally Posted by bruto Ben, that is a pretty cool clock. A few questions arise: What is its actual age? How precise do the pins on the escapement have to be? Are plans available? Well, this one likely is one of many similar items sold in the 1970s. The pins only need to be correct in number, and approximately in spacing, the actual position can be a bit sloppy. There are no fine tolerances anywhere here. Plans for a number of wooden clocks can be found here; http://www.woodenclocks.co.uk/index.htm
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2nd December 2007, 06:04 PM	#11
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,147	wahrheit, Yes, the beat is irregular, these pretty much always are, and the "dead" part of the cycle is almost non-existent, hence they are very sensitive to changes in force and any other defect in the mechanism. In a more modern clock, the dead part of the beat is the vast majority of the cycle and the impulse to the oscillating element is only momentary.
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2nd December 2007, 06:24 PM	#12
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 11,187	Originally Posted by BenBurch Well, this one likely is one of many similar items sold in the 1970s. The pins only need to be correct in number, and approximately in spacing, the actual position can be a bit sloppy. There are no fine tolerances anywhere here. Plans for a number of wooden clocks can be found here; http://www.woodenclocks.co.uk/index.htm Thanks. Looks like potential fun.
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3rd December 2007, 05:36 AM	#13
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,147	Originally Posted by bruto Thanks. Looks like potential fun. You're most welcome.
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4th December 2007, 05:57 PM	#14
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,147	Here is a complete kit, bit it isn't exactly a verge and foliot clock of the traditional sort; This has an added escapement that makes it more accurate or so the maker claims; http://www.clockplans.com/PAGE26.htm
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