Should NY help the NRC decide to renew Indian Point's License?

T-Diddy · 5th December 2007, 04:27 PM

It sounds like [New York] Governor Spitzer and AG Cuomo have decided that they should be inserted into the process for determining whether Indian Point Nuclear Power Plant's operating license should be renewed. NYT has an editorial about it here, predictably stating they support the Governor and AG.

So, should a state be able to participate in the renewal process? From the editorial, it almost sounds like the Times' editorial board wants them to have a veto on the process, but I'm afraid this would set a chilling president. For instance, if they can stop the renewal process, they would probably have grounds for demanding to sit in on new licenses. How many Governors, in an attempt to be 'green,' would veto a nuke that could bring much-needed jobs and energy to his state?

Or, if a state can sit in on the nuclear licensing process (and presumably be able to prevent it), why shouldn't they be able to stop any power plant from being constructed/operated?

The NRC's legal jurisdiction in being the sole arbiter is clear in this case. I tend to think that there is no overriding reason for this change. The NYT editorial rests on the premise that safety record, security, and local population are the factors that weigh in their favor, yet there are many factories and other industrial sites at far greater risk, and states do not currently have this level of power. Overall, I must conclude this is either a political sideshow or an unjustified power grab.

If NY has a problem with Indian Point, they should present their arguments in writing and request the NRC to do its job, not tell them how to do it.

DRBUZZ0 · 16th December 2007, 08:13 AM

I'd imagine that the state probably could stop any power plant from being built, or at least muck up the process a lot if they tried hard enough. Indian point gets a lot of crap because it's somewhat close to the population centers. I'd have no problem decommissioning it in favor of a new plant with more efficient systems, but as it stands it's so hard to get the approval and actually construct a new plant, it's vital to fight tooth and nail to keep the ones we have.

I can tell you that in Connecticut, the shutdown of Connecticut Yankee Nuclear a few years back has cause a lot more pollution here. There are six major coal plants in the state and since Yankee closed they have operated at higher capacities and two, which were in the process of possibly being mothballed now have a secure future. A plant which was closed a few years back that burns low grade oil is now possibly being reopened. As such the air is a lot dirtier now and emissions are up since the closure.

Indian point is a major power producer and the Tri-State area is already stretched in terms of electricity. If anyone doesn't think that the Eastern US is in a bit of a squeeze for having sufficient generating reserves, remember a little incident that happened in summer 2003? You know... that massive blackout.

The fact is that New York can't afford to loose so much generating capacity. And although it might get by increasing capacity elsewhere as well as imports, they would have some very negative enviornmental impacts.

Nuclear energy isn't really the most dangerous power source in the area anyway.. or even close. Here's info on what is: http://depletedcranium.com/?p=248

Anyways, they operate nuclear power reactors right within the city limits of New York City, and they don't even have them on a solid foundation or with seismically protected. Actually the damn things roll back and forth from time to time and don't have an NRC license or an evacuation plan. They don't even restrict aircraft from landing near them or having people living extremely close to them. Yeah.. right in the major population center.

technoextreme · 16th December 2007, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Indian point is a major power producer and the Tri-State area is already stretched in terms of electricity. If anyone doesn't think that the Eastern US is in a bit of a squeeze for having sufficient generating reserves, remember a little incident that happened in summer 2003? You know... that massive blackout.

That has nothing to do with this discussion. That was a series of idiotic decisions and problems the least of which was having sufficient reserves.

Quote:

I'd imagine that the state probably could stop any power plant from being built, or at least muck up the process a lot if they tried hard enough. Indian point gets a lot of crap because it's somewhat close to the population centers. I'd have no problem decommissioning it in favor of a new plant with more efficient systems, but as it stands it's so hard to get the approval and actually construct a new plant, it's vital to fight tooth and nail to keep the ones we have.

Sorry wrong verb tense. New York State has stopped a power plant from operating before. In that case it was what the [Rule 10]ing hell were the thinking. They built a nuclear reactor on Long Island.

DRBUZZ0 · 16th December 2007, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by technoextreme

That has nothing to do with this discussion. That was a series of idiotic decisions and problems the least of which was having sufficient reserves.

Yes it does, New York State would be idiotic to try to somehow interfere with Indian Point's license extension or in any way cause interruption in operation. Doing so will lead to a reduction in overall power generating capacity as well as increased pollution in the state and elsewhere on the national grid.

New York State and the whole eastern cordor of the US does not exactly have a big surplus of generating capacity. There are a number of plants in Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York and New Jersey which are either being upgraded or expanded. Some of the "peaker" plants in this area are now running nearly all the time and they're struggling to put in transmission lines to keep the power flowing where needed.

Believe me, the area around new york is in need of some major grid and generating expansion. I can give you plenty of sources if you'd like about the fact that things are running thin.

Quote:

Sorry wrong verb tense. New York State has stopped a power plant from operating before. In that case it was what the [Rule 10]ing hell were the thinking. They built a nuclear reactor on Long Island.

I'm sure they have stopped plants from operating before. A state can obviously legislate a lot of such activities going on within its own borders

5th December 2007, 04:27 PM	#1
T-Diddy Scholar Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 94	Should NY help the NRC decide to renew Indian Point's License? It sounds like [New York] Governor Spitzer and AG Cuomo have decided that they should be inserted into the process for determining whether Indian Point Nuclear Power Plant's operating license should be renewed. NYT has an editorial about it here, predictably stating they support the Governor and AG. So, should a state be able to participate in the renewal process? From the editorial, it almost sounds like the Times' editorial board wants them to have a veto on the process, but I'm afraid this would set a chilling president. For instance, if they can stop the renewal process, they would probably have grounds for demanding to sit in on new licenses. How many Governors, in an attempt to be 'green,' would veto a nuke that could bring much-needed jobs and energy to his state? Or, if a state can sit in on the nuclear licensing process (and presumably be able to prevent it), why shouldn't they be able to stop any power plant from being constructed/operated? The NRC's legal jurisdiction in being the sole arbiter is clear in this case. I tend to think that there is no overriding reason for this change. The NYT editorial rests on the premise that safety record, security, and local population are the factors that weigh in their favor, yet there are many factories and other industrial sites at far greater risk, and states do not currently have this level of power. Overall, I must conclude this is either a political sideshow or an unjustified power grab. If NY has a problem with Indian Point, they should present their arguments in writing and request the NRC to do its job, not tell them how to do it.
T-Diddy Scholar Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 94

16th December 2007, 08:13 AM	#2
DRBUZZ0 Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: The Command Bunker Posts: 3,320	I'd imagine that the state probably could stop any power plant from being built, or at least muck up the process a lot if they tried hard enough. Indian point gets a lot of crap because it's somewhat close to the population centers. I'd have no problem decommissioning it in favor of a new plant with more efficient systems, but as it stands it's so hard to get the approval and actually construct a new plant, it's vital to fight tooth and nail to keep the ones we have. I can tell you that in Connecticut, the shutdown of Connecticut Yankee Nuclear a few years back has cause a lot more pollution here. There are six major coal plants in the state and since Yankee closed they have operated at higher capacities and two, which were in the process of possibly being mothballed now have a secure future. A plant which was closed a few years back that burns low grade oil is now possibly being reopened. As such the air is a lot dirtier now and emissions are up since the closure. Indian point is a major power producer and the Tri-State area is already stretched in terms of electricity. If anyone doesn't think that the Eastern US is in a bit of a squeeze for having sufficient generating reserves, remember a little incident that happened in summer 2003? You know... that massive blackout. The fact is that New York can't afford to loose so much generating capacity. And although it might get by increasing capacity elsewhere as well as imports, they would have some very negative enviornmental impacts. Nuclear energy isn't really the most dangerous power source in the area anyway.. or even close. Here's info on what is: http://depletedcranium.com/?p=248 Anyways, they operate nuclear power reactors right within the city limits of New York City, and they don't even have them on a solid foundation or with seismically protected. Actually the damn things roll back and forth from time to time and don't have an NRC license or an evacuation plan. They don't even restrict aircraft from landing near them or having people living extremely close to them. Yeah.. right in the major population center. But only during fleet week. That is if they're lucky enough to get one of the big Atlantic fleet carriers to come in and give a little show, which they did a few years ago. It was cool. Really cool

16th December 2007, 09:55 AM	#3
technoextreme Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,786	Quote: Indian point is a major power producer and the Tri-State area is already stretched in terms of electricity. If anyone doesn't think that the Eastern US is in a bit of a squeeze for having sufficient generating reserves, remember a little incident that happened in summer 2003? You know... that massive blackout. That has nothing to do with this discussion. That was a series of idiotic decisions and problems the least of which was having sufficient reserves. Quote: I'd imagine that the state probably could stop any power plant from being built, or at least muck up the process a lot if they tried hard enough. Indian point gets a lot of crap because it's somewhat close to the population centers. I'd have no problem decommissioning it in favor of a new plant with more efficient systems, but as it stands it's so hard to get the approval and actually construct a new plant, it's vital to fight tooth and nail to keep the ones we have. Sorry wrong verb tense. New York State has stopped a power plant from operating before. In that case it was what the [Rule 10]ing hell were the thinking. They built a nuclear reactor on Long Island.

16th December 2007, 02:46 PM	#4
DRBUZZ0 Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: The Command Bunker Posts: 3,320	Originally Posted by technoextreme That has nothing to do with this discussion. That was a series of idiotic decisions and problems the least of which was having sufficient reserves. Yes it does, New York State would be idiotic to try to somehow interfere with Indian Point's license extension or in any way cause interruption in operation. Doing so will lead to a reduction in overall power generating capacity as well as increased pollution in the state and elsewhere on the national grid. New York State and the whole eastern cordor of the US does not exactly have a big surplus of generating capacity. There are a number of plants in Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York and New Jersey which are either being upgraded or expanded. Some of the "peaker" plants in this area are now running nearly all the time and they're struggling to put in transmission lines to keep the power flowing where needed. Believe me, the area around new york is in need of some major grid and generating expansion. I can give you plenty of sources if you'd like about the fact that things are running thin. Quote: Sorry wrong verb tense. New York State has stopped a power plant from operating before. In that case it was what the [Rule 10]ing hell were the thinking. They built a nuclear reactor on Long Island. I'm sure they have stopped plants from operating before. A state can obviously legislate a lot of such activities going on within its own borders