Amazing twist on the sawing-someone-in-half trick!

volatile · 8th December 2007, 07:13 AM

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

I'm absolutely floored by this routine by one Kevin James... I have no idea how this is even remotely possible, but kudos to whoever built his props.

Is this his own trick or did someone else invent it?

Safe-Keeper · 8th December 2007, 12:28 PM

Absolutely amazing. And this was before a live audience? So they couldn't just have removed the guy with a dummy in-between shots?

We are allowed to speculate in here, right? Pardon me if we aren't.

DJM · 8th December 2007, 01:18 PM

The first video is edited. The second one is what you would see live.

Calcas · 10th December 2007, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by DJM

The first video is edited. The second one is what you would see live.

That's what I thought. The only "amazing" part of the first vid is where the "re-attachement" takes place, hence the need for the edit.

Everything else is obvious.

Edited by tim:

You know, it says right there at the top - don't reveal any secrets. Please don't do it again.

Bob Klase · 10th December 2007, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Calcas

Everything else is obvious.

Everything in magic is obvious to some people. It's still magic to others- obviously it wasn't obvious to the OP. There's really no need to show how smart you are by trying to explain it to everyone just because it's obvious to you.

I've seen Kevin do this live several times and he reattaches the halves, so it obvious to me that edits aren't required and weren't done to hide the method.

DJM · 10th December 2007, 10:14 AM

I agree edits are not required as he does it live, but there was an obvious edit in the first video that probably skipped a very important element of the method. I wish it was the full video so that I could be more amazed by it. And I also wonder why he didn't do the reattachment in the second video.. maybe it doesn't look good on TV?

Calcas · 10th December 2007, 07:20 PM

I'm not a magician and have zero expertise in the matter.

But, I am frequently amazed at some of the the "magic" is see. I really do love this stuff and enjoy trying to figure out how it's done.

But, when there's an obvious edit (ala everything you see on "Mindfreak") then I like to speculate.

The first vid was great but it had an obvious edit. The second vid didn't use the edit which made the trick easier to spot.

Is "speculating" the same as revealing secrets?

Since I've been modded (is that a word?...) should I take this to Forum Management for discussion?

Azrael 5 · 11th December 2007, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Calcas

I'm not a magician and have zero expertise in the matter.

But, I am frequently amazed at some of the the "magic" is see. I really do love this stuff and enjoy trying to figure out how it's done.

But, when there's an obvious edit (ala everything you see on "Mindfreak") then I like to speculate.

The first vid was great but it had an obvious edit. The second vid didn't use the edit which made the trick easier to spot.

Is "speculating" the same as revealing secrets?

Since I've been modded (is that a word?...) should I take this to Forum Management for discussion?

Why speculate? just enjoy the trick,this forum is for discussion about magic not to discuss methods-real or otherwise.

Redtail · 11th December 2007, 11:28 AM

It's that Prof. Snape in the second vid?

(Sorry, I have a house full of kids and I've been "Potter'd" to insanity today.)

NeilC · 12th December 2007, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Azrael 5

Why speculate? just enjoy the trick,this forum is for discussion about magic not to discuss methods-real or otherwise.

The rest of the world can speculate. We can speculate anywhere else. Not being able to speculate makes this forum less interesting (in that respect) than the local pub.

Exposing secrets because you are in the know is one thing. Talking about effects and speculating on their method is what everyone does after they've seen a trick. Why bother to restrict it here? It's not going to make any difference to anything. Seems silly.

Azrael 5 · 12th December 2007, 11:18 AM

Er..I dunno.
Maybe if speculating hits on the real method?

NeilC · 13th December 2007, 09:50 AM

How does that change what I said previously?

Guessing is not exposure. If it was then almost anyone who's ever watched a magic trick and discussed it or guessed at it's method is guilty of it and that cannot be true. People do it all the time in person and on 100s of forums, blogs and websites. Restricting people from doing it at a skeptical thinking website makes no difference or sense IMO.

Anyway, if we don't know and we hit on the right method, we are still guessing and still don't KNOW the method.

DJM · 13th December 2007, 10:48 AM

Speculation might not be exposure, but in my opinion it cheapens the illusions just the same. Just because some sites and forums guess things doesn't make it ok. I always find it pretty annoying that people on Youtube keep trying to guess the method they see in the videos, instead of keeping the illusion alive and just enjoy it. Which in my opinion is what magic is all about. If people want do that then it would be better in private and not where every child can read.

Not to mention that more often than not the guessing IS the correct solution, which is what happened with the previous post by Colcas that was edited.

Calcas · 13th December 2007, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by DJM

Not to mention that more often than not the guessing IS the correct solution, which is what happened with the previous post by Colcas that was edited.

If I "guessed" the trick was done completely with mirrors I'll bet my post wouldn't have been edited. Because that would have been an incorrect guess.

But, since my guess was probably accurate it was removed.

Something about that smells funny...

DJM · 13th December 2007, 12:24 PM

If you posted an incorrect method with specific details why you think that way, then in my opinion it should be removed as well. Mostly because it could lead people to believe it is the correct method, and that would not be fair toward the magician who worked so hard to keep it mysterious. Guessing or not, I don't understand why people should ruin the illusion. This is the most important part of magic.

There used to be a Russian site made about Copperfield's secrets, and many of the things there were false. But that sill made him very angry and threatened to sue the creator of the website, who eventually took it down. Copperfield couldn't care less if the secrets were just by guessing or not, it still showed disrespect for his hard work.

I'm not saying people can't speculate about the magic effects, I do the same with other people. But in my opinion it should be kept private.

volatile · 15th December 2007, 01:47 PM

Midgets?

greymatters · 19th December 2007, 08:48 PM

Unfortunately, the gentleman who gets sawed in half in the video passed away earlier this year.

Kevin James' version is nice, but to this day, the master of presenting the sawing-in-half illusion is still Richiardi:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Bob Klase · 19th December 2007, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by greymatters

Unfortunately, the gentleman who gets sawed in half in the video passed away earlier this year.

How much earlier this year? I saw him in Daytona 6 weeks ago.

greymatters · 19th December 2007, 09:56 PM

His name is Kurtis Walker, and he died on March 31st, 2007 from a tumor under his heart. He was only 24.

Here's Kevin James' rememberance of him (written on April 12th):

Quote:

Kurtis Walker was an angel.

He did want his legs amputated from the knee down for many years. He had been forced to sit on his shins his whole life.

He always found resistance from the doctors in Utah that he was dealing with. I was able to put him in touch with a wonderful orthepedic surgeon in Los Angeles that agreed to do the operation.

Kurtis did take a leave of absence from our show but planned to be back in 3 weeks. The doctors wanted to keep him over night for observation but he did so well after the operation that they released him 2 hours later.

That day Kurtis and his parents (both nurses) drove to my house in Las Vegas and spent the night. Kurtis was in great spirits and marveled in the mirror at his new streamlined self. He was tickeled pink. The next morning they drove to Utah where he was to convalesce at his parents home for 3 weeks.

3 days later I get a call from his family saying that Kurtis is in ICU with pnumonia and that he had a 50/50 chance of survival. The cast at the World's Greatest Magic Show was devastated and prayed for him that night. For the next week he began to make small victories.

His swelling went down, his color came back, they would let his meds wear out to see if he would wake from his chemically induced coma. He did wake up like we all hoped he would. He was hand signing to his Mom and writing notes to her. He was on a respirator and it began to bother him and he pulled it out more than once.

We knew he was strong, loved life so much that he would give a great fight and come out on top. We just knew it. Then towards the beginning of the 3rd week in intesive care they decided to remove the respirator from his mouth and give him a treach. This was more comfortable for Kurtis.

Then things began to go in the wrong direction. He developed a yeast infection in his lungs and 3 days later he was no longer able to fight and passed to the next life.

Last Monday I went to Utah with several people from our show. I spoke at the funeral. It was sad, happy and wonderful all at the same time. It was a celebration of his life. Kurtis had the most positive attitude of any one I have ever met. So without even trying he inspired us to be better. He loved playing bass, photography and had the most contagous laugh.

I later learned that at the autopsy they found a grapefruit sized tumor under his heart. It would have been inoperable and they gave him only about 6 more months on our earth. This is ironic.

He touched everyone he met in very wonderful ways. The church in Utah was packed and it was a cold and rainy day. He had lots of friends.

We will be holding a memorial for Kurtis so that all of his Vegas friends can celebrate his life as well. This memorial will be the afternoon of May 11th. In his honor we will be naming our performance space the Kurtis Walker Theatre.

He was 24 years old. He will be missed and remembered.

Bob Klase · 19th December 2007, 10:59 PM

Okay- different guy then.

8th December 2007, 12:28 PM	#2
Safe-Keeper Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The House on the Hill Posts: 4,096	Absolutely amazing. And this was before a live audience? So they couldn't just have removed the guy with a dummy in-between shots? We are allowed to speculate in here, right? Pardon me if we aren't.
	__________________ For the players of the Halloween game: the game map can be found here, up-to-date character and game data here, and the original thread, with rules, here. Last edited by Safe-Keeper; 8th December 2007 at 12:29 PM.

8th December 2007, 01:18 PM	#3
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	The first video is edited. The second one is what you would see live.
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783

10th December 2007, 09:43 AM	#5
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,389	Originally Posted by Calcas Everything else is obvious. Everything in magic is obvious to some people. It's still magic to others- obviously it wasn't obvious to the OP. There's really no need to show how smart you are by trying to explain it to everyone just because it's obvious to you. I've seen Kevin do this live several times and he reattaches the halves, so it obvious to me that edits aren't required and weren't done to hide the method.
	Last edited by Bob Klase; 10th December 2007 at 09:48 AM.

10th December 2007, 10:14 AM	#6
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	I agree edits are not required as he does it live, but there was an obvious edit in the first video that probably skipped a very important element of the method. I wish it was the full video so that I could be more amazed by it. And I also wonder why he didn't do the reattachment in the second video.. maybe it doesn't look good on TV?
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Last edited by DJM; 10th December 2007 at 10:16 AM.

11th December 2007, 09:19 AM	#8
Azrael 5 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 4,171	Originally Posted by Calcas I'm not a magician and have zero expertise in the matter. But, I am frequently amazed at some of the the "magic" is see. I really do love this stuff and enjoy trying to figure out how it's done. But, when there's an obvious edit (ala everything you see on "Mindfreak") then I like to speculate. The first vid was great but it had an obvious edit. The second vid didn't use the edit which made the trick easier to spot. Is "speculating" the same as revealing secrets? Since I've been modded (is that a word?...) should I take this to Forum Management for discussion? Why speculate? just enjoy the trick,this forum is for discussion about magic not to discuss methods-real or otherwise.
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown Photography here

10th December 2007, 07:20 PM	#7
Calcas Master of my Domain Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,472	I'm not a magician and have zero expertise in the matter. But, I am frequently amazed at some of the the "magic" is see. I really do love this stuff and enjoy trying to figure out how it's done. But, when there's an obvious edit (ala everything you see on "Mindfreak") then I like to speculate. The first vid was great but it had an obvious edit. The second vid didn't use the edit which made the trick easier to spot. Is "speculating" the same as revealing secrets? Since I've been modded (is that a word?...) should I take this to Forum Management for discussion?

11th December 2007, 11:28 AM	#9
Redtail Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,438	It's that Prof. Snape in the second vid? (Sorry, I have a house full of kids and I've been "Potter'd" to insanity today.)
Redtail Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,438	__________________ MOVE!!!! SCIENCE IS COMING!!!!! I like yelling that as if science is a rampaging monster because it makes the Christians scatter... I'm kidding! I'm a christian! Shakes head while mouthing "No I'm not." ~Dr. KaBoom!

12th December 2007, 10:02 AM	#10
NeilC Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,085	Originally Posted by Azrael 5 Why speculate? just enjoy the trick,this forum is for discussion about magic not to discuss methods-real or otherwise. The rest of the world can speculate. We can speculate anywhere else. Not being able to speculate makes this forum less interesting (in that respect) than the local pub. Exposing secrets because you are in the know is one thing. Talking about effects and speculating on their method is what everyone does after they've seen a trick. Why bother to restrict it here? It's not going to make any difference to anything. Seems silly.

12th December 2007, 11:18 AM	#11
Azrael 5 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 4,171	Er..I dunno. Maybe if speculating hits on the real method?
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown Photography here

13th December 2007, 09:50 AM	#12
NeilC Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,085	How does that change what I said previously? Guessing is not exposure. If it was then almost anyone who's ever watched a magic trick and discussed it or guessed at it's method is guilty of it and that cannot be true. People do it all the time in person and on 100s of forums, blogs and websites. Restricting people from doing it at a skeptical thinking website makes no difference or sense IMO. Anyway, if we don't know and we hit on the right method, we are still guessing and still don't KNOW the method.
	Last edited by NeilC; 13th December 2007 at 09:50 AM.

13th December 2007, 10:48 AM	#13
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Speculation might not be exposure, but in my opinion it cheapens the illusions just the same. Just because some sites and forums guess things doesn't make it ok. I always find it pretty annoying that people on Youtube keep trying to guess the method they see in the videos, instead of keeping the illusion alive and just enjoy it. Which in my opinion is what magic is all about. If people want do that then it would be better in private and not where every child can read. Not to mention that more often than not the guessing IS the correct solution, which is what happened with the previous post by Colcas that was edited.
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Last edited by DJM; 13th December 2007 at 10:49 AM.

13th December 2007, 11:51 AM	#14
Calcas Master of my Domain Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,472	Originally Posted by DJM Not to mention that more often than not the guessing IS the correct solution, which is what happened with the previous post by Colcas that was edited. If I "guessed" the trick was done completely with mirrors I'll bet my post wouldn't have been edited. Because that would have been an incorrect guess. But, since my guess was probably accurate it was removed. Something about that smells funny...

13th December 2007, 12:24 PM	#15
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	If you posted an incorrect method with specific details why you think that way, then in my opinion it should be removed as well. Mostly because it could lead people to believe it is the correct method, and that would not be fair toward the magician who worked so hard to keep it mysterious. Guessing or not, I don't understand why people should ruin the illusion. This is the most important part of magic. There used to be a Russian site made about Copperfield's secrets, and many of the things there were false. But that sill made him very angry and threatened to sue the creator of the website, who eventually took it down. Copperfield couldn't care less if the secrets were just by guessing or not, it still showed disrespect for his hard work. I'm not saying people can't speculate about the magic effects, I do the same with other people. But in my opinion it should be kept private.
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Last edited by DJM; 13th December 2007 at 12:25 PM.

15th December 2007, 01:47 PM	#16
volatile Scholar and a Gentleman Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The Uncanny Valley Posts: 6,128	Midgets?
	__________________ - ""My tribe has a saying: 'If you're bleeding, look for a man with scars'" - Leela, Doctor Who 'Robots of Death'.

19th December 2007, 08:59 PM	#18
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,389	Originally Posted by greymatters Unfortunately, the gentleman who gets sawed in half in the video passed away earlier this year. How much earlier this year? I saw him in Daytona 6 weeks ago.

19th December 2007, 09:56 PM	#19
greymatters Muse Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 734	His name is Kurtis Walker, and he died on March 31st, 2007 from a tumor under his heart. He was only 24. Here's Kevin James' rememberance of him (written on April 12th): Quote: Kurtis Walker was an angel. He did want his legs amputated from the knee down for many years. He had been forced to sit on his shins his whole life. He always found resistance from the doctors in Utah that he was dealing with. I was able to put him in touch with a wonderful orthepedic surgeon in Los Angeles that agreed to do the operation. Kurtis did take a leave of absence from our show but planned to be back in 3 weeks. The doctors wanted to keep him over night for observation but he did so well after the operation that they released him 2 hours later. That day Kurtis and his parents (both nurses) drove to my house in Las Vegas and spent the night. Kurtis was in great spirits and marveled in the mirror at his new streamlined self. He was tickeled pink. The next morning they drove to Utah where he was to convalesce at his parents home for 3 weeks. 3 days later I get a call from his family saying that Kurtis is in ICU with pnumonia and that he had a 50/50 chance of survival. The cast at the World's Greatest Magic Show was devastated and prayed for him that night. For the next week he began to make small victories. His swelling went down, his color came back, they would let his meds wear out to see if he would wake from his chemically induced coma. He did wake up like we all hoped he would. He was hand signing to his Mom and writing notes to her. He was on a respirator and it began to bother him and he pulled it out more than once. We knew he was strong, loved life so much that he would give a great fight and come out on top. We just knew it. Then towards the beginning of the 3rd week in intesive care they decided to remove the respirator from his mouth and give him a treach. This was more comfortable for Kurtis. Then things began to go in the wrong direction. He developed a yeast infection in his lungs and 3 days later he was no longer able to fight and passed to the next life. Last Monday I went to Utah with several people from our show. I spoke at the funeral. It was sad, happy and wonderful all at the same time. It was a celebration of his life. Kurtis had the most positive attitude of any one I have ever met. So without even trying he inspired us to be better. He loved playing bass, photography and had the most contagous laugh. I later learned that at the autopsy they found a grapefruit sized tumor under his heart. It would have been inoperable and they gave him only about 6 more months on our earth. This is ironic. He touched everyone he met in very wonderful ways. The church in Utah was packed and it was a cold and rainy day. He had lots of friends. We will be holding a memorial for Kurtis so that all of his Vegas friends can celebrate his life as well. This memorial will be the afternoon of May 11th. In his honor we will be naming our performance space the Kurtis Walker Theatre. He was 24 years old. He will be missed and remembered.
	__________________ Grey Matters: Blog \| Videos \| Mental Gym \| Presentation \| Original Products \| Recommended Products Train and Strain Your Brain to Entertain!

19th December 2007, 10:59 PM	#20
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,389	Okay- different guy then.