A kind of Psychological-related Health problem that really concerns me

Ron_Tomkins · 9th December 2007, 09:24 PM

Ok, here's the thing:

I faint whenever I start imagining bone fractures.

The issue is that I'm getting the feeling that sometimes I don't even have to imagine the actual bone breaking. Sometimes, just the suggestion makes my preassure drop and my stomach turn and I start feeling really dizzy and sick.

I'll try to give some background:

I remember the first time I experienced this. I was in fourth grade. There were these students giving a short lecture on bone fractures. As they began to explain the different kinds of fractures and as they began going into details of how the bone breaks and goes throught the skin and blablabla, my temperature began to raise, I began to sweat and next thing I know, I'm lying with my head on the table breathing heavily, about to completely black out. I didn't but that was a close one.

There was also a time I went to this chyropractor (or whatever the spelling is) because of a problem of tendonitis I the guy grabbed me and made my bones crunch. I nervously thanked him, payed the check, took the elevator down, sat on the sidewalk and all of a sudden began to feel how I was fainting. I felt a tinkling all over my skin and I literally began to loose my vision. I had to really take the time to calm down and recover myself.

But tonight it was the limit. This is when it got to that point where I think I need help. I was at a restaurant reading Bram Stoker's Dracula. I was reading the scene where Rennfeld falls and breaks his skull. I didn't even go too much into details imagining the fracture and I kept reading. But next thing I knew, I had to stop reading (even thought I wasn't reading a description of the injuries) because I was fainting.

I guess my question is: What exactly causes this? Why bone fractures? I know some people suffer from the same thing when they see blood. What exactly causes this? Is it genetic? Is it psychologic? And how can it be fought? I don't wanna spend the rest of my life with this thing. It's really uncomfortable and it can make life hard on some ocassions.

Jimcalagon · 10th December 2007, 02:02 AM

Have you still got that job in the trauma clinic?

petra10 · 10th December 2007, 02:28 AM

My nephew has the same reaction to blood, its really bad.
I think its like a panic attack and maybe trying some relaxation techniques.
Another extreme method would be to get some bones from your butcher and bash them with a hammer. Although I understand this may be impossible for you to do without some sort of help. Maybe from an understanding friend.

Phobias like this have an big impact on peoples everyday lifes, so getting help to overcome your fear can only be a good thing.

jmontecillo01 · 10th December 2007, 02:51 AM

My fear of height started when the medication for my illness was changed. The medication keeps me sane, so the phobia is just another thing I have to live with.

Check with a psychiatrist to see if there is anything he could offer. There is no need to suffer needlessly if the problem can be corrected.

Dancing David · 10th December 2007, 04:19 AM

Sounds like an anxiety reaction or perhaps intrusive thoughts.

A combination of medication and CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) is usually the most effective, it relief is sought.

CBT by itself can be helpful, but if it doesn't interfere with your daily life than , no problem.

Nucular · 10th December 2007, 05:46 AM

It has been suggested that fainting is much more common as an aspect of a blood injury phobia than other phobias as the usual physiological response to an anxiety-provoking stimulus is arousal, during which blood pressure raises, making fainting less likely than usual - whereas a natural response of some to the sight of blood is than blood pressure crashes, as a sort of survival mechanism to stop you bleeding all your blood out, as it were. I'm not as up on the evidence base for these claims as I should be.

Dancing David is correct to say that CBT is very useful in this context, if it is indeed interfering with daily life (and it sounds like it is).

I think I'd want to go and get a medical check up though, if this was happening to me - blood pressure, etc. Do you ever faint without the bone-breaking stimulus?

Gord_in_Toronto · 10th December 2007, 09:14 AM

A friend of mine had a fear of birds so great that she could not go outside in her backyard and once was so frightened by a flock birds that flew up in front of her while she was learning to drive that she almost crashed and could not continue with her lessons.

She finally went to a psychologist and was administered what best I understand is Systematic Desensitization -- a form of CBT (the cognitive one; not "Computer Based Training"

)

This started out with her looking at a stuffed bird from the door of the doctor's office and progressed through handling the stuffed one, touching a real bird and ended up with a trip to the park on Toronto Island where she fed the Canada geese (who are very agressive and pushy).

My wife and I have now spent time with her in her garden in Summer and she has learned to drive and owns a car.

I seem to remember that the whole therapy took a couple of months and she is now completey cured of something that incapacitated her for most of her life fro childhood (I think she was originally scared by a hen about the age of six).

YMMV

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor!

dakotajudo · 10th December 2007, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Nucular

It has been suggested that fainting is much more common as an aspect of a blood injury phobia than other phobias as the usual physiological response to an anxiety-provoking stimulus is arousal, during which blood pressure raises, making fainting less likely than usual - whereas a natural response of some to the sight of blood is than blood pressure crashes, as a sort of survival mechanism to stop you bleeding all your blood out, as it were. I'm not as up on the evidence base for these claims as I should be.

A couple references on vasovagal syncope (blood pressure decrease associated with fainting) in blood phobias:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/104/8/903
http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/.../full/44/3/253

and some correspondence on using skeletal muscle contractions to manage syncope (fainting)
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/cont...ll/107/20/e198

and cognitive treatment:
http://europace.oxfordjournals.org/c...t/full/5/3/299

It appears that placebos work about as well as beta-blockers for treatment:
http://content.onlinejacc.org/cgi/co...tract/40/3/499

Myself, I've fainted once. I'd had several shoulder dislocations and ultimately surgery. Years later, early one morning at a breakfast meeting with my thesis advisor, I was putting on my jacket and my shoulder popped out. I sat down, next thing, I was wondering why I was taking a nap on the floor.

Fortunately, passed out, I relaxed enough for my shoulder to go back in on it's own.

I've dislocated the same shoulder many times since, but never got light headed, even; but then, almost every other time the dislocation occurred during a workout - when my cardiac output was already elevated.

Nucular · 10th December 2007, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by dakotajudo

A couple references on vasovagal syncope (blood pressure decrease associated with fainting) in blood phobias:

Thanks for the links, DJ

I've fainted a few times, all whilst going through a pubescent growing spurt as a teenager. If ever I stood up too quickly, everything would go orange and swirly, and when it cleared I'd be the wrong way up. I could bring it on purposely if I wanted, which I did occasionally - it was sort of interesting.

Ron_Tomkins · 10th December 2007, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by petra10

My nephew has the same reaction to blood, its really bad.
I think its like a panic attack and maybe trying some relaxation techniques.
Another extreme method would be to get some bones from your butcher and bash them with a hammer. Although I understand this may be impossible for you to do without some sort of help. Maybe from an understanding friend.

Phobias like this have an big impact on peoples everyday lifes, so getting help to overcome your fear can only be a good thing.

Hahahaha, that's really funny but I don't think that'll work. See, I'm a meat eater and I've eaten fried chicken and pork chops and sometimes, to get a better bite area, I'll break some of the bones myself. This has never caused me the slightest effect. Obviously, it's a very specyfic psychological justification, otherwise there would be a little bit more consistency.

Ron_Tomkins · 10th December 2007, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by dakotajudo

A couple references on vasovagal syncope (blood pressure decrease associated with fainting) in blood phobias:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/104/8/903
http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/.../full/44/3/253

and some correspondence on using skeletal muscle contractions to manage syncope (fainting)
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/cont...ll/107/20/e198

and cognitive treatment:
http://europace.oxfordjournals.org/c...t/full/5/3/299

It appears that placebos work about as well as beta-blockers for treatment:
http://content.onlinejacc.org/cgi/co...tract/40/3/499

Myself, I've fainted once. I'd had several shoulder dislocations and ultimately surgery. Years later, early one morning at a breakfast meeting with my thesis advisor, I was putting on my jacket and my shoulder popped out. I sat down, next thing, I was wondering why I was taking a nap on the floor.

Fortunately, passed out, I relaxed enough for my shoulder to go back in on it's own.

I've dislocated the same shoulder many times since, but never got light headed, even; but then, almost every other time the dislocation occurred during a workout - when my cardiac output was already elevated.

Thank for the link.

As fate would have it, my preassure might have been slightly affected as I read your shoulder description. Don't worry, hehe, I'm not throwing it on you. Just thought I'd mention it as a proof of how extreme the phobia is.

9th December 2007, 09:24 PM	#1
Ron_Tomkins Satan's Helper Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 32,003	A kind of Psychological-related Health problem that really concerns me Ok, here's the thing: I faint whenever I start imagining bone fractures. The issue is that I'm getting the feeling that sometimes I don't even have to imagine the actual bone breaking. Sometimes, just the suggestion makes my preassure drop and my stomach turn and I start feeling really dizzy and sick. I'll try to give some background: I remember the first time I experienced this. I was in fourth grade. There were these students giving a short lecture on bone fractures. As they began to explain the different kinds of fractures and as they began going into details of how the bone breaks and goes throught the skin and blablabla, my temperature began to raise, I began to sweat and next thing I know, I'm lying with my head on the table breathing heavily, about to completely black out. I didn't but that was a close one. There was also a time I went to this chyropractor (or whatever the spelling is) because of a problem of tendonitis I the guy grabbed me and made my bones crunch. I nervously thanked him, payed the check, took the elevator down, sat on the sidewalk and all of a sudden began to feel how I was fainting. I felt a tinkling all over my skin and I literally began to loose my vision. I had to really take the time to calm down and recover myself. But tonight it was the limit. This is when it got to that point where I think I need help. I was at a restaurant reading Bram Stoker's Dracula. I was reading the scene where Rennfeld falls and breaks his skull. I didn't even go too much into details imagining the fracture and I kept reading. But next thing I knew, I had to stop reading (even thought I wasn't reading a description of the injuries) because I was fainting. I guess my question is: What exactly causes this? Why bone fractures? I know some people suffer from the same thing when they see blood. What exactly causes this? Is it genetic? Is it psychologic? And how can it be fought? I don't wanna spend the rest of my life with this thing. It's really uncomfortable and it can make life hard on some ocassions.

10th December 2007, 02:02 AM	#2
Jimcalagon Scholar Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 93	Have you still got that job in the trauma clinic?
Jimcalagon Scholar Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 93

10th December 2007, 02:28 AM	#3
petra10 Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: scotland uk Posts: 1,796	My nephew has the same reaction to blood, its really bad. I think its like a panic attack and maybe trying some relaxation techniques. Another extreme method would be to get some bones from your butcher and bash them with a hammer. Although I understand this may be impossible for you to do without some sort of help. Maybe from an understanding friend. Phobias like this have an big impact on peoples everyday lifes, so getting help to overcome your fear can only be a good thing.
	__________________ "Imagine theres no heaven,its easy if you try. no hell below us,above us only sky." John Lennon

10th December 2007, 02:51 AM	#4
jmontecillo01 Thinker Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 192	My fear of height started when the medication for my illness was changed. The medication keeps me sane, so the phobia is just another thing I have to live with. Check with a psychiatrist to see if there is anything he could offer. There is no need to suffer needlessly if the problem can be corrected.
jmontecillo01 Thinker Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 192

10th December 2007, 04:19 AM	#5
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,705	Sounds like an anxiety reaction or perhaps intrusive thoughts. A combination of medication and CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) is usually the most effective, it relief is sought. CBT by itself can be helpful, but if it doesn't interfere with your daily life than , no problem.
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager

10th December 2007, 05:46 AM	#6
Nucular Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brane 6, Brahman's Dream Posts: 3,050	It has been suggested that fainting is much more common as an aspect of a blood injury phobia than other phobias as the usual physiological response to an anxiety-provoking stimulus is arousal, during which blood pressure raises, making fainting less likely than usual - whereas a natural response of some to the sight of blood is than blood pressure crashes, as a sort of survival mechanism to stop you bleeding all your blood out, as it were. I'm not as up on the evidence base for these claims as I should be. Dancing David is correct to say that CBT is very useful in this context, if it is indeed interfering with daily life (and it sounds like it is). I think I'd want to go and get a medical check up though, if this was happening to me - blood pressure, etc. Do you ever faint without the bone-breaking stimulus?
	__________________ From the UK? Sceptical? Like forums? Well my psychic powers tell me that the UK Skeptics' Forum is for you - 8 out of 10 sceptics demand to know where these figures came from. Non sunt in coeli, quia fvccant vvivys of heli (Flen Flyys, c.15th Century) Get out of my head, Nucular (kmortis)

10th December 2007, 09:14 AM	#7
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,415	A friend of mine had a fear of birds so great that she could not go outside in her backyard and once was so frightened by a flock birds that flew up in front of her while she was learning to drive that she almost crashed and could not continue with her lessons. She finally went to a psychologist and was administered what best I understand is Systematic Desensitization -- a form of CBT (the cognitive one; not "Computer Based Training" ) This started out with her looking at a stuffed bird from the door of the doctor's office and progressed through handling the stuffed one, touching a real bird and ended up with a trip to the park on Toronto Island where she fed the Canada geese (who are very agressive and pushy). My wife and I have now spent time with her in her garden in Summer and she has learned to drive and owns a car. I seem to remember that the whole therapy took a couple of months and she is now completey cured of something that incapacitated her for most of her life fro childhood (I think she was originally scared by a hen about the age of six). YMMV Disclaimer: I am not a doctor!
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick Last edited by Gord_in_Toronto; 10th December 2007 at 09:15 AM.

10th December 2007, 10:04 AM	#8
dakotajudo Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 298	Originally Posted by Nucular It has been suggested that fainting is much more common as an aspect of a blood injury phobia than other phobias as the usual physiological response to an anxiety-provoking stimulus is arousal, during which blood pressure raises, making fainting less likely than usual - whereas a natural response of some to the sight of blood is than blood pressure crashes, as a sort of survival mechanism to stop you bleeding all your blood out, as it were. I'm not as up on the evidence base for these claims as I should be. A couple references on vasovagal syncope (blood pressure decrease associated with fainting) in blood phobias: http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/104/8/903 http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/.../full/44/3/253 and some correspondence on using skeletal muscle contractions to manage syncope (fainting) http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/cont...ll/107/20/e198 and cognitive treatment: http://europace.oxfordjournals.org/c...t/full/5/3/299 It appears that placebos work about as well as beta-blockers for treatment: http://content.onlinejacc.org/cgi/co...tract/40/3/499 Myself, I've fainted once. I'd had several shoulder dislocations and ultimately surgery. Years later, early one morning at a breakfast meeting with my thesis advisor, I was putting on my jacket and my shoulder popped out. I sat down, next thing, I was wondering why I was taking a nap on the floor. Fortunately, passed out, I relaxed enough for my shoulder to go back in on it's own. I've dislocated the same shoulder many times since, but never got light headed, even; but then, almost every other time the dislocation occurred during a workout - when my cardiac output was already elevated.

10th December 2007, 10:12 AM	#9
Nucular Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brane 6, Brahman's Dream Posts: 3,050	Originally Posted by dakotajudo A couple references on vasovagal syncope (blood pressure decrease associated with fainting) in blood phobias: Thanks for the links, DJ I've fainted a few times, all whilst going through a pubescent growing spurt as a teenager. If ever I stood up too quickly, everything would go orange and swirly, and when it cleared I'd be the wrong way up. I could bring it on purposely if I wanted, which I did occasionally - it was sort of interesting.
	__________________ From the UK? Sceptical? Like forums? Well my psychic powers tell me that the UK Skeptics' Forum is for you - 8 out of 10 sceptics demand to know where these figures came from. Non sunt in coeli, quia fvccant vvivys of heli (Flen Flyys, c.15th Century) Get out of my head, Nucular (kmortis)

10th December 2007, 12:27 PM	#10
Ron_Tomkins Satan's Helper Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 32,003	Originally Posted by petra10 My nephew has the same reaction to blood, its really bad. I think its like a panic attack and maybe trying some relaxation techniques. Another extreme method would be to get some bones from your butcher and bash them with a hammer. Although I understand this may be impossible for you to do without some sort of help. Maybe from an understanding friend. Phobias like this have an big impact on peoples everyday lifes, so getting help to overcome your fear can only be a good thing. Hahahaha, that's really funny but I don't think that'll work. See, I'm a meat eater and I've eaten fried chicken and pork chops and sometimes, to get a better bite area, I'll break some of the bones myself. This has never caused me the slightest effect. Obviously, it's a very specyfic psychological justification, otherwise there would be a little bit more consistency.

10th December 2007, 12:31 PM	#11
Ron_Tomkins Satan's Helper Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 32,003	Originally Posted by dakotajudo A couple references on vasovagal syncope (blood pressure decrease associated with fainting) in blood phobias: http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/104/8/903 http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/.../full/44/3/253 and some correspondence on using skeletal muscle contractions to manage syncope (fainting) http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/cont...ll/107/20/e198 and cognitive treatment: http://europace.oxfordjournals.org/c...t/full/5/3/299 It appears that placebos work about as well as beta-blockers for treatment: http://content.onlinejacc.org/cgi/co...tract/40/3/499 Myself, I've fainted once. I'd had several shoulder dislocations and ultimately surgery. Years later, early one morning at a breakfast meeting with my thesis advisor, I was putting on my jacket and my shoulder popped out. I sat down, next thing, I was wondering why I was taking a nap on the floor. Fortunately, passed out, I relaxed enough for my shoulder to go back in on it's own. I've dislocated the same shoulder many times since, but never got light headed, even; but then, almost every other time the dislocation occurred during a workout - when my cardiac output was already elevated. Thank for the link. As fate would have it, my preassure might have been slightly affected as I read your shoulder description. Don't worry, hehe, I'm not throwing it on you. Just thought I'd mention it as a proof of how extreme the phobia is.