Tony Blair is now a Catholic

CFLarsen · 22nd December 2007, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Tony Blair joins Catholic faith

Former PM Tony Blair has converted from the Anglican to the Catholic Church.

Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor said: "I am very glad to welcome Tony Blair into the Catholic Church.

"For a long time he has been a regular worshipper at Mass with his family and in recent months he has been following a programme of formation to prepare for his reception into full communion.

"My prayers are with him, his wife and family at this joyful moment in their journey of faith together."
...
Last year Mr Blair said he prayed to God when deciding whether or not to send UK troops to Iraq.

He told ITV1 chat show host Michael Parkinson: "In the end, there is a judgement that, I think if you have faith about these things, you realise that judgement is made by other people... and if you believe in God, it's made by God as well."

And earlier this year, the former prime minister told the BBC that he had avoided talking about his religious views while in office for fear of being labelled "a nutter".

His ex-spokesman Alastair Campbell once told reporters "We don't do God," but has since said that his former boss "does do God in quite a big way".

While I don't think it is a good thing to have a political leader who is also religious - especially not one who asks God if he should send soldiers into battle - I'd rather see a political leader be open and honest about his faith, than be sneaky and deceitful, in order to protect his own political career.

Fiona · 22nd December 2007, 06:23 AM

He has been a catholic in all but name for a long time IMO. He went to mass. He took communion. He was not open about his faith while in office because he thought it would harm his career. He is a hypocrite and a coward. He is not the stuff a martyr is made of. He is not the stuff a decent human being is made of. But we knew that

Big Les · 22nd December 2007, 08:54 AM

He seems to have waited to fully "cross over" until he was no longer directly involved in the Northern Irish peace process. Makes sense.

Most of us here couldn't care less what faith, if any, our prime minister (and of course he isn't anymore) has, as long as it's a private matter that does not influence policy. I can't help but wonder whether his firmly-held Christianity, shared of course with George W, might have had on his decisions, specifically those about the Iraq war.

Fnord · 22nd December 2007, 09:04 AM

Anglican ... Catholic ... it's all the same. One has it's authority figure wearing flowing robes and making the occasional public appearance to adoring fans while denying the immoral acts of others nearby and defending them when denial is impossible. And the other is ... dang ... forgot which one I was talking about.

Darat · 22nd December 2007, 09:07 AM

Not an entirely unexpected conversion however I would be very curious how he now reconciles his "new" faith with some of his past votes.

Fnord · 22nd December 2007, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Not an entirely unexpected conversion however I would be very curious how he now reconciles his "new" faith with some of his past votes.

How about:

"That was then. This is now."

Darat · 22nd December 2007, 09:15 AM

No I don't think that does explain it, he's become a RC presumably because he agrees with the doctrine and teachings of that faith, his conversion is just the "technical" part of that. And if he agrees with those doctrines and teachings then his past votes aren't compatible with those doctrines and teachings.

Darat · 22nd December 2007, 09:17 AM

I do think this explains why there was so much dithering and delay regarding the RCC wanting to be exempt (because of their religiously inspired bigotry) from the recent change in the law in regards to adoption.

Darth Rotor · 22nd December 2007, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

While I don't think it is a good thing to have a political leader who is also religious - especially not one who asks God if he should send soldiers into battle - I'd rather see a political leader be open and honest about his faith, than be sneaky and deceitful, in order to protect his own political career.

Has Tony Blair ever asked God if he should send soldiers into battle?

Why do you choose to discriminate against practitioners of religion when it comes to political office? That does not strike me as very open minded, Claus, given the variation in adherence to doctrine among practitioners on an individual basis.

Let me offer you an example: I dropped by my favorite local bar last night, on the way home, for some cocktails and conviviality. A nice couple in their late fifties and I struck up a conversation over a few drinks. Lively and friendly it was, with much laughter.

As the conversation progressed, I found out they were both practicing members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. (Mormons) My eyebrow only raised a bit, as I have known other Mormons who libate.

Adherence to doctrine varies, in practice.

DR

CFLarsen · 22nd December 2007, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Has Tony Blair ever asked God if he should send soldiers into battle?

Why do you choose to discriminate against practitioners of religion when it comes to political office? That does not strike me as very open minded, Claus, given the variation in adherence to doctrine among practitioners on an individual basis.

I don't "discriminate" any more than those who prefer to have a superstitious person in office. The difference is that the one I vote for does not claim to be guided by Gods.

When politicians point to divine connections as to why they make the decisions that influence us all, we should pay attention.

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Let me offer you an example: I dropped by my favorite local bar last night, on the way home, for some cocktails and conviviality. A nice couple in their late fifties and I struck up a conversation over a few drinks. Lively and friendly it was, with much laughter.

As the conversation progressed, I found out they were both practicing members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. (Mormons) My eyebrow only raised a bit, as I have known other Mormons who libate.

Adherence to doctrine varies, in practice.

A contradiction in terms.

FireGarden · 22nd December 2007, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Has Tony Blair ever asked God if he should send soldiers into battle?

Maybe not before sending them into battle, but (from the OP): "Last year Mr Blair said he prayed to God when deciding whether or not to send UK troops to Iraq."

So, at best, a subtle distinction.

andyandy · 22nd December 2007, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by FireGarden

Maybe not before sending them into battle, but (from the OP): "Last year Mr Blair said he prayed to God when deciding whether or not to send UK troops to Iraq."

So, at best, a subtle distinction.

Do you think it was more of a

(1) Blair: "OK God, should I invade Iraq? What's that? If the next word I hear starts with a constanant then you wants me to invade Iraq, If it starts with a vowel you want me to not invade...OK..."

Chere: "Tea's ready!"

Blair: "Invasion it is!"

or a

(2) "Please God, help me make the right decision"

type of prayer? The latter seems more likely than the former no?

CFLarsen · 22nd December 2007, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by andyandy

Do you think it was more of a

(1) Blair: "OK God, should I invade Iraq? What's that? If the next word I hear starts with a constanant then you wants me to invade Iraq, If it starts with a vowel you want me to not invade...OK..."

Chere: "Tea's ready!"

Blair: "Invasion it is!"

or a

(2) "Please God, help me make the right decision"

type of prayer? The latter seems more likely than the former no?

Given Blair's conversion to a religion which thrives on direct, clear-cut answers from God, I'd say the former.

Even in the latter case, what does this "help" consist of? If not a direct answer from God, then a divine justification.

In a way, that's more scary. He doesn't send soldiers because of some miracle the rest of us can see (and test, and therefore, make up our own minds about whether he is right or not), but because God Told Him This Was Right.

It's precisely what Dawkins spoke about in "The Root of All Evil?", when he talked about the Pope simply decreeing that God Told Him This Was Right.

We only have the leader's word about what God said.

The Fool · 22nd December 2007, 02:05 PM

I always forget...is it the Catholics or the Protestants that go to heaven?

Darat · 22nd December 2007, 02:08 PM

Neither - it's the Jews so it's a surprise to the adherents of all three of them!

The Fool · 22nd December 2007, 02:16 PM

I always forget...is it the Catholics or the Protestants that go to heaven?

Kerberos · 22nd December 2007, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by The Fool

I always forget...is it the Catholics or the Protestants that go to heaven?

Neither.

CFLarsen · 22nd December 2007, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Neither - it's the Jews so it's a surprise to the adherents of all three of them!

Actually, they go to hell..."The jews were right"

DanishDynamite · 22nd December 2007, 02:52 PM

Sad to see.

articulett · 22nd December 2007, 03:01 PM

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

FireGarden · 23rd December 2007, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by andyandy

Do you think it was more of a

(1) Blair: "OK God, should I invade Iraq? What's that? If the next word I hear starts with a constanant then you wants me to invade Iraq, If it starts with a vowel you want me to not invade...OK..."

Chere: "Tea's ready!"

Blair: "Invasion it is!"

or a

(2) "Please God, help me make the right decision"

type of prayer? The latter seems more likely than the former no?

I'm willing to accept it was the second.
Does Blair think that he was helped to get the right answer? If so, wouldn't that give him a special kind of certainty? -- one not supported by objective advice.

Maybe it was a bit like Homer's prayer: "Lord, if in thy wisdom you approve of this war then give me no sign...... Thy will be done." After all, isn't all such prayer a search for justification?

If Blair said, "I prayed but got no answer so I had to make the decision on my own." That wouldn't have been so bad.

Elizabeth I · 23rd December 2007, 12:01 PM

I heard this on the news yesterday and I'm not sure why anybody outside the circle of Mr. Blair's family and friends cares. Especially now that he's out of office.

E.J.Armstrong · 23rd December 2007, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

While I don't think it is a good thing to have a political leader who is also religious - especially not one who asks God if he should send soldiers into battle - I'd rather see a political leader be open and honest about his faith, than be sneaky and deceitful, in order to protect his own political career.

The catholic god apparently welcomes sinners who repent but as far as I am aware Blair has never apologised for lying to the British people about the war on Iraq and instructing men to die for his and Dub's personal economic benefit (job awarded to Blair by Dub as soon as he left office - Dub to be rewarded by the arms and oil industries when he leaves office).

At least we forced the liar out of office.

Fiona · 23rd December 2007, 01:44 PM

Too little and far too late

corplinx · 23rd December 2007, 03:12 PM

I suspect he converted for the same reason most men do. To give their spouses one less thing to nag about.

a_unique_person · 23rd December 2007, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

While I don't think it is a good thing to have a political leader who is also religious - especially not one who asks God if he should send soldiers into battle - I'd rather see a political leader be open and honest about his faith, than be sneaky and deceitful, in order to protect his own political career.

[spittle]

blah blah blah papists blah blah Rome blah blah Antichrist blah blah

[/spittle]

I wonder if he considered Atheist as an option when he was re-evaluating his faith?

Darth Rotor · 24th December 2007, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

[spittle]

blah blah blah papists blah blah Rome blah blah Antichrist blah blah

[/spittle]

I wonder if he considered Atheist as an option when he was re-evaluating his faith?

I wonder if he considered Shinto.

DR

Liszt · 24th December 2007, 08:02 AM

Apparently (I didn't see this, but someone told me), Blair said he was a "five times a night" guy. Why hasn't he got the standard 11 children then? Has he been using evil contraceptives? It might just be a National Inquirer story or something though.

corplinx · 24th December 2007, 08:11 AM

Like most manly neo-cons, he practices the pull and spray method pioneered by John Holmes and Ron Jeremy.

Liszt · 24th December 2007, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by corplinx

Like most manly neo-cons, he practices the pull and spray method pioneered by John Holmes and Ron Jeremy.

"pull and spray" !!!

That phrase, as opposed to, for example, "pull-out method", invites an image.

Thanks for that, corplinx

Fnord · 24th December 2007, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by corplinx

I suspect he converted for the same reason most men do. To give their spouses one less thing to nag about.

Did he never learn to simply nod his head and say "Yes dear"?

What surprises me is that his conversion made the news at all.

Mojo · 25th December 2007, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Not an entirely unexpected conversion however I would be very curious how he now reconciles his "new" faith with some of his past votes.

Or with some of his past statements:

I won't become a Catholic - Blair

Quote:

Tony Blair has dismissed speculation he plans to convert to Roman Catholicism.

The prime minister, an Anglican, had reportedly expressed an interest in joining his wife Cherie and their four children in the Catholic faith.

The Blair family priest, Father Timothy Russ, told The Times newspaper Mr Blair "may well" convert.

But Mr Blair emphatically denied the story when challenged by reporters, joking: "Don't they run this once a year?"

UserGoogol · 25th December 2007, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Liszt

"pull and spray" !!!

That phrase, as opposed to, for example, "pull-out method", invites an image.

Thanks for that, corplinx

Hmm... it also brings to mind the even more evocative phrase "spray and pray" (which is used in the gun world, I believe) but which is highly amusing in this context.

corplinx · 25th December 2007, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by UserGoogol

Hmm... it also brings to mind the even more evocative phrase "spray and pray" (which is used in the gun world, I believe) but which is highly amusing in this context.

Its actually a derivative of "pull and pray" which is the most often practiced form of birth control.

Elizabeth I · 25th December 2007, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by corplinx

Like most manly neo-cons, he practices the pull and spray method pioneered by John Holmes and Ron Jeremy.

Or, as it was described by a patient in the family planning clinic at which I worked, "jerk and squirt."

She was astonished by our lecture on effective and not-so-effective methods of contraception, and asked, "Do you mean to tell me jerk-and-squirt don't work?"

Zeuzzz · 26th December 2007, 06:01 PM

The Blairs are also known for their New age religious tendencies.

Cherie Blair is a big fan of homeopathy for example.

found this in the guardian newspaper;

Quote:

3 According to Jack Temple, Cherie Blair's 'homeopathic dowser healer', the leaves of which plant allow 'the lame to walk, the barren to conceive and the sad to smile' if, and only if, they capture the healing energies of the stars by being planted within the boundaries of his allegedly neolithic stone circle at West Byfleet near Woking?

Quite wierd! It doesn't surprise me that Tony would have equally odd religious ideas, he was always harking on about 'doing the right thing',etc.

Damien Evans · 27th December 2007, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Zeuzzz

The Blairs are also known for their New age religious tendencies.

Cherie Blair is a big fan of homeopathy for example.

found this in the guardian newspaper;

Quite wierd! It doesn't surprise me that Tony would have equally odd religious ideas, he was always harking on about 'doing the right thing',etc.

Yeah, Cherie's an absolute nutter, but that's old news.

KingMerv00 · 27th December 2007, 07:09 AM

I smell a new Hitchens book in the works.

Mojo · 27th December 2007, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Zeuzzz

The Blairs are also known for their New age religious tendencies.

Cherie Blair is a big fan of homeopathy for example.

Her sister is a homoeopath.

iAmerican · 27th December 2007, 09:08 AM

Who did not know Blair was Rome's when he allied with the 9-11-committing tool of the Anti-Christ, and Hitler's banker's homosexual draft-dodging grandson, George W. Bush?

America’s Founder was correct: To Samuel Kercheval Monticello, January 19, 1810

SIR, — Yours of the 7th instant has been duly received, with the pamphlet inclosed, for which I return you my thanks. Nothing can be more exactly and seriously true than what is there stated; that but a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandising their oppressors in Church and State; that the purest system of morals ever before preached to man, has been adulterated and sophisticated by artificial constructions, into a mere contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves; that rational men not being able to swallow their impious heresies, in order to force them down their throats, they raise the hue and cry of infidelity, while themselves are the greatest obstacles to the advancement of the real doctrines of Jesus, and do in fact constitute the real Anti-Christ.

Lee Atwater waited to make a death-bed conversion to the Anti-Christ and Rehnquist, the needed vote to unconstitutionally stop the Florida recount with the other Roman Catholics', waited to admit his Papist affiliation at his funeral.

22nd December 2007, 05:38 AM	#1
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Tony Blair is now a Catholic Quote: Tony Blair joins Catholic faith Former PM Tony Blair has converted from the Anglican to the Catholic Church. Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor said: "I am very glad to welcome Tony Blair into the Catholic Church. "For a long time he has been a regular worshipper at Mass with his family and in recent months he has been following a programme of formation to prepare for his reception into full communion. "My prayers are with him, his wife and family at this joyful moment in their journey of faith together." ... Last year Mr Blair said he prayed to God when deciding whether or not to send UK troops to Iraq. He told ITV1 chat show host Michael Parkinson: "In the end, there is a judgement that, I think if you have faith about these things, you realise that judgement is made by other people... and if you believe in God, it's made by God as well." And earlier this year, the former prime minister told the BBC that he had avoided talking about his religious views while in office for fear of being labelled "a nutter". His ex-spokesman Alastair Campbell once told reporters "We don't do God," but has since said that his former boss "does do God in quite a big way". While I don't think it is a good thing to have a political leader who is also religious - especially not one who asks God if he should send soldiers into battle - I'd rather see a political leader be open and honest about his faith, than be sneaky and deceitful, in order to protect his own political career.
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

22nd December 2007, 06:23 AM	#2
Fiona Guest Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8,238	He has been a catholic in all but name for a long time IMO. He went to mass. He took communion. He was not open about his faith while in office because he thought it would harm his career. He is a hypocrite and a coward. He is not the stuff a martyr is made of. He is not the stuff a decent human being is made of. But we knew that
Fiona Guest Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8,238	Last edited by Fiona; 22nd December 2007 at 06:23 AM.

22nd December 2007, 08:54 AM	#3
Big Les Not so much a medium as a large Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5,004	He seems to have waited to fully "cross over" until he was no longer directly involved in the Northern Irish peace process. Makes sense. Most of us here couldn't care less what faith, if any, our prime minister (and of course he isn't anymore) has, as long as it's a private matter that does not influence policy. I can't help but wonder whether his firmly-held Christianity, shared of course with George W, might have had on his decisions, specifically those about the Iraq war.
	__________________ "Feeling you’ve done something is not quite the same as the empirical scientific proof." -Stephen Fry The BS Historian

22nd December 2007, 09:04 AM	#4
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Anglican ... Catholic ... it's all the same. One has it's authority figure wearing flowing robes and making the occasional public appearance to adoring fans while denying the immoral acts of others nearby and defending them when denial is impossible. And the other is ... dang ... forgot which one I was talking about.
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

22nd December 2007, 09:07 AM	#5
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,778	Not an entirely unexpected conversion however I would be very curious how he now reconciles his "new" faith with some of his past votes.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

22nd December 2007, 09:10 AM	#6
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Originally Posted by Darat Not an entirely unexpected conversion however I would be very curious how he now reconciles his "new" faith with some of his past votes. How about: "That was then. This is now."
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

22nd December 2007, 09:15 AM	#7
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,778	No I don't think that does explain it, he's become a RC presumably because he agrees with the doctrine and teachings of that faith, his conversion is just the "technical" part of that. And if he agrees with those doctrines and teachings then his past votes aren't compatible with those doctrines and teachings.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

22nd December 2007, 09:17 AM	#8
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,778	I do think this explains why there was so much dithering and delay regarding the RCC wanting to be exempt (because of their religiously inspired bigotry) from the recent change in the law in regards to adoption.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

22nd December 2007, 10:27 AM	#9
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,257	Originally Posted by CFLarsen While I don't think it is a good thing to have a political leader who is also religious - especially not one who asks God if he should send soldiers into battle - I'd rather see a political leader be open and honest about his faith, than be sneaky and deceitful, in order to protect his own political career. Has Tony Blair ever asked God if he should send soldiers into battle? Why do you choose to discriminate against practitioners of religion when it comes to political office? That does not strike me as very open minded, Claus, given the variation in adherence to doctrine among practitioners on an individual basis. Let me offer you an example: I dropped by my favorite local bar last night, on the way home, for some cocktails and conviviality. A nice couple in their late fifties and I struck up a conversation over a few drinks. Lively and friendly it was, with much laughter. As the conversation progressed, I found out they were both practicing members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. (Mormons) My eyebrow only raised a bit, as I have known other Mormons who libate. Adherence to doctrine varies, in practice. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis Last edited by Darth Rotor; 22nd December 2007 at 10:30 AM.

22nd December 2007, 10:53 AM	#10
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Has Tony Blair ever asked God if he should send soldiers into battle? Why do you choose to discriminate against practitioners of religion when it comes to political office? That does not strike me as very open minded, Claus, given the variation in adherence to doctrine among practitioners on an individual basis. I don't "discriminate" any more than those who prefer to have a superstitious person in office. The difference is that the one I vote for does not claim to be guided by Gods. When politicians point to divine connections as to why they make the decisions that influence us all, we should pay attention. Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Let me offer you an example: I dropped by my favorite local bar last night, on the way home, for some cocktails and conviviality. A nice couple in their late fifties and I struck up a conversation over a few drinks. Lively and friendly it was, with much laughter. As the conversation progressed, I found out they were both practicing members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. (Mormons) My eyebrow only raised a bit, as I have known other Mormons who libate. Adherence to doctrine varies, in practice. A contradiction in terms.
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

22nd December 2007, 12:14 PM	#11
FireGarden Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Spannungsbogen -- without a visa Posts: 5,043	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Has Tony Blair ever asked God if he should send soldiers into battle? Maybe not before sending them into battle, but (from the OP): "Last year Mr Blair said he prayed to God when deciding whether or not to send UK troops to Iraq." So, at best, a subtle distinction.
	__________________ When Americans talk about freedom, it’s our secular code word for salvation. There’s no salvation outside the church; there’s no freedom outside the American way of life. -- James Carroll B'tselem Tony Karon's blog

22nd December 2007, 12:32 PM	#12
andyandy anthropomorphic ape Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: up a tree Posts: 8,192	Originally Posted by FireGarden Maybe not before sending them into battle, but (from the OP): "Last year Mr Blair said he prayed to God when deciding whether or not to send UK troops to Iraq." So, at best, a subtle distinction. Do you think it was more of a (1) Blair: "OK God, should I invade Iraq? What's that? If the next word I hear starts with a constanant then you wants me to invade Iraq, If it starts with a vowel you want me to not invade...OK..." Chere: "Tea's ready!" Blair: "Invasion it is!" or a (2) "Please God, help me make the right decision" type of prayer? The latter seems more likely than the former no?
	Last edited by andyandy; 22nd December 2007 at 12:39 PM.

22nd December 2007, 12:50 PM	#13
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Originally Posted by andyandy Do you think it was more of a (1) Blair: "OK God, should I invade Iraq? What's that? If the next word I hear starts with a constanant then you wants me to invade Iraq, If it starts with a vowel you want me to not invade...OK..." Chere: "Tea's ready!" Blair: "Invasion it is!" or a (2) "Please God, help me make the right decision" type of prayer? The latter seems more likely than the former no? Given Blair's conversion to a religion which thrives on direct, clear-cut answers from God, I'd say the former. Even in the latter case, what does this "help" consist of? If not a direct answer from God, then a divine justification. In a way, that's more scary. He doesn't send soldiers because of some miracle the rest of us can see (and test, and therefore, make up our own minds about whether he is right or not), but because God Told Him This Was Right. It's precisely what Dawkins spoke about in "The Root of All Evil?", when he talked about the Pope simply decreeing that God Told Him This Was Right. We only have the leader's word about what God said.
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

22nd December 2007, 02:05 PM	#14
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	I always forget...is it the Catholics or the Protestants that go to heaven?
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

22nd December 2007, 02:08 PM	#15
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,778	Neither - it's the Jews so it's a surprise to the adherents of all three of them!
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

22nd December 2007, 02:16 PM	#16
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	I always forget...is it the Catholics or the Protestants that go to heaven?
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

22nd December 2007, 02:41 PM	#17
Kerberos Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,608	Originally Posted by The Fool I always forget...is it the Catholics or the Protestants that go to heaven? Neither.
Kerberos Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,608	__________________ Bible code: A method for obtaining hidden messages from texts that contains none, for the purpose of predicting events after they happen. "When the facts are on you side, but the law is against you, stress the facts. When the law is on your side, but the facts are against you stress the law. When both the facts and the law is against you, pound the table and yell like hell". Laywer maxim

22nd December 2007, 02:45 PM	#18
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Originally Posted by Darat Neither - it's the Jews so it's a surprise to the adherents of all three of them! Actually, they go to hell..."The jews were right"
	__________________ SkepticReport.com Last edited by CFLarsen; 22nd December 2007 at 02:47 PM.

22nd December 2007, 02:52 PM	#19
DanishDynamite Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: In the cold Posts: 10,802	Sad to see.

23rd December 2007, 02:26 AM	#21
FireGarden Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Spannungsbogen -- without a visa Posts: 5,043	Originally Posted by andyandy Do you think it was more of a (1) Blair: "OK God, should I invade Iraq? What's that? If the next word I hear starts with a constanant then you wants me to invade Iraq, If it starts with a vowel you want me to not invade...OK..." Chere: "Tea's ready!" Blair: "Invasion it is!" or a (2) "Please God, help me make the right decision" type of prayer? The latter seems more likely than the former no? I'm willing to accept it was the second. Does Blair think that he was helped to get the right answer? If so, wouldn't that give him a special kind of certainty? -- one not supported by objective advice. Maybe it was a bit like Homer's prayer: "Lord, if in thy wisdom you approve of this war then give me no sign...... Thy will be done." After all, isn't all such prayer a search for justification? If Blair said, "I prayed but got no answer so I had to make the decision on my own." That wouldn't have been so bad.
	__________________ When Americans talk about freedom, it’s our secular code word for salvation. There’s no salvation outside the church; there’s no freedom outside the American way of life. -- James Carroll B'tselem Tony Karon's blog

23rd December 2007, 12:01 PM	#22
Elizabeth I Olympic Equestrian Wannabe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Defending the Alamo Posts: 9,265	I heard this on the news yesterday and I'm not sure why anybody outside the circle of Mr. Blair's family and friends cares. Especially now that he's out of office.
	__________________ • There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. - Winston Churchill • Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it. • My blog: Pardon me, may I ask...

23rd December 2007, 01:16 PM	#23
E.J.Armstrong Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,825	Originally Posted by CFLarsen While I don't think it is a good thing to have a political leader who is also religious - especially not one who asks God if he should send soldiers into battle - I'd rather see a political leader be open and honest about his faith, than be sneaky and deceitful, in order to protect his own political career. The catholic god apparently welcomes sinners who repent but as far as I am aware Blair has never apologised for lying to the British people about the war on Iraq and instructing men to die for his and Dub's personal economic benefit (job awarded to Blair by Dub as soon as he left office - Dub to be rewarded by the arms and oil industries when he leaves office). At least we forced the liar out of office.
	__________________ “Everybody is somebody’s Jew. And today the Palestinians are the Jews of the Israelis.” Primo Levi Capitalist (n) Someone who pays himself and his friends billions of dollars of your money as a reward for destroying your entire economy. Israelis are taught that Palestinians are not human beings like them. Gideon Levy The Punishment of Gaza

23rd December 2007, 01:44 PM	#24
Fiona Guest Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8,238	Too little and far too late
Fiona Guest Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8,238

23rd December 2007, 03:12 PM	#25
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	I suspect he converted for the same reason most men do. To give their spouses one less thing to nag about.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

23rd December 2007, 04:20 PM	#26
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,327	Originally Posted by CFLarsen While I don't think it is a good thing to have a political leader who is also religious - especially not one who asks God if he should send soldiers into battle - I'd rather see a political leader be open and honest about his faith, than be sneaky and deceitful, in order to protect his own political career. [spittle] blah blah blah papists blah blah Rome blah blah Antichrist blah blah [/spittle] I wonder if he considered Atheist as an option when he was re-evaluating his faith?
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

24th December 2007, 07:27 AM	#27
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,257	Originally Posted by a_unique_person [spittle] blah blah blah papists blah blah Rome blah blah Antichrist blah blah [/spittle] I wonder if he considered Atheist as an option when he was re-evaluating his faith? I wonder if he considered Shinto. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

24th December 2007, 08:02 AM	#28
Liszt Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,036	Apparently (I didn't see this, but someone told me), Blair said he was a "five times a night" guy. Why hasn't he got the standard 11 children then? Has he been using evil contraceptives? It might just be a National Inquirer story or something though.
Liszt Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,036

24th December 2007, 08:11 AM	#29
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Like most manly neo-cons, he practices the pull and spray method pioneered by John Holmes and Ron Jeremy.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

24th December 2007, 08:20 AM	#30
Liszt Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,036	Originally Posted by corplinx Like most manly neo-cons, he practices the pull and spray method pioneered by John Holmes and Ron Jeremy. "pull and spray" !!! That phrase, as opposed to, for example, "pull-out method", invites an image. Thanks for that, corplinx
Liszt Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,036	Last edited by Liszt; 24th December 2007 at 08:21 AM.

24th December 2007, 08:38 AM	#31
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Originally Posted by corplinx I suspect he converted for the same reason most men do. To give their spouses one less thing to nag about. Did he never learn to simply nod his head and say "Yes dear"? What surprises me is that his conversion made the news at all.
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

25th December 2007, 05:16 AM	#32
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 22,092	Originally Posted by Darat Not an entirely unexpected conversion however I would be very curious how he now reconciles his "new" faith with some of his past votes. Or with some of his past statements: I won't become a Catholic - Blair Quote: Tony Blair has dismissed speculation he plans to convert to Roman Catholicism. The prime minister, an Anglican, had reportedly expressed an interest in joining his wife Cherie and their four children in the Catholic faith. The Blair family priest, Father Timothy Russ, told The Times newspaper Mr Blair "may well" convert. But Mr Blair emphatically denied the story when challenged by reporters, joking: "Don't they run this once a year?"
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

25th December 2007, 08:57 AM	#33
UserGoogol Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 2,074	Originally Posted by Liszt "pull and spray" !!! That phrase, as opposed to, for example, "pull-out method", invites an image. Thanks for that, corplinx Hmm... it also brings to mind the even more evocative phrase "spray and pray" (which is used in the gun world, I believe) but which is highly amusing in this context.
	__________________ Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. -- Hanlon's Razor

25th December 2007, 09:22 AM	#34
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Originally Posted by UserGoogol Hmm... it also brings to mind the even more evocative phrase "spray and pray" (which is used in the gun world, I believe) but which is highly amusing in this context. Its actually a derivative of "pull and pray" which is the most often practiced form of birth control.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

25th December 2007, 04:46 PM	#35
Elizabeth I Olympic Equestrian Wannabe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Defending the Alamo Posts: 9,265	Originally Posted by corplinx Like most manly neo-cons, he practices the pull and spray method pioneered by John Holmes and Ron Jeremy. Or, as it was described by a patient in the family planning clinic at which I worked, "jerk and squirt." She was astonished by our lecture on effective and not-so-effective methods of contraception, and asked, "Do you mean to tell me jerk-and-squirt don't work?"
	__________________ • There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. - Winston Churchill • Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it. • My blog: Pardon me, may I ask...

26th December 2007, 06:01 PM	#36
Zeuzzz Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,241	The Blairs are also known for their New age religious tendencies. Cherie Blair is a big fan of homeopathy for example. found this in the guardian newspaper; Quote: 3 According to Jack Temple, Cherie Blair's 'homeopathic dowser healer', the leaves of which plant allow 'the lame to walk, the barren to conceive and the sad to smile' if, and only if, they capture the healing energies of the stars by being planted within the boundaries of his allegedly neolithic stone circle at West Byfleet near Woking? Quite wierd! It doesn't surprise me that Tony would have equally odd religious ideas, he was always harking on about 'doing the right thing',etc.
Zeuzzz Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,241