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Temporal Renegade · 22nd December 2007, 09:56 AM

Wasn't really sure if this belongs in here, or in Entertainment:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a82...an-groups.html

http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle3080608.ece

Lisa Simpson · 22nd December 2007, 10:11 AM

I worship Doctor Who. Frankly, Jesus can take a hike. Seriously, did Jesus have anything as cool as a sonic screwdriver?

Temporal Renegade · 22nd December 2007, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson

I worship Doctor Who. Frankly, Jesus can take a hike. Seriously, did Jesus have anything as cool as a sonic screwdriver?

Damn straight!

danielk · 22nd December 2007, 10:24 AM

Heh. And there I was thinking they would appreciate that depicting a fictional character as the messiah at least isn't an atheist message.

Now they have a theological dispute with Doctor Who...

brodski · 22nd December 2007, 10:26 AM

Been there, done that.

http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=211

http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=212

Kopji · 22nd December 2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Stephen Green, of the evangelical group Christian Voice, said: “The Doctor would have to do a lot more than the usual prancing around to be a messiah. He has to save people from their sins.”

That's just too funny.

Redtail · 22nd December 2007, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson

I worship Doctor Who. Frankly, Jesus can take a hike. Seriously, did Jesus have anything as cool as a sonic screwdriver?

3 words, "Red Sleigh Down". Jesus is teh l33t!

Kopji · 22nd December 2007, 10:30 AM

Those cartoons on Brodski's link are a complete scream.

danielk · 22nd December 2007, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by brodski

http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=211
http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=212

"Fanfic". Nice gem, thanks.

Tricky · 22nd December 2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

The special Christmas Day episode of the show, which features Kylie Minogue, was accused of subverting religious iconography.

Funny, you don't hear a word from these same Christian groups when The Chronicles of Narnia depicts a Jesus Lion, complete with sacrifice and resurrection. I guess it's okay for Christians to subvert religious iconography.

A Christian Sceptic · 22nd December 2007, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Funny, you don't hear a word from these same Christian groups when The Chronicles of Narnia depicts a Jesus Lion, complete with sacrifice and resurrection. I guess it's okay for Christians to subvert religious iconography.

Actually you'd be surprised at how many Christians were upset at that.

jjramsey · 22nd December 2007, 10:50 AM

Hmm, I don't think I've seen that episode on the SciFi channel, so I gather that it hasn't made its way across the Atlantic yet. (Yes, that's a hint for you on the other side of the pond to use spoiler tags.

)

Anyway, it's only just now that Christian Voice has noticed messianic themes in Doctor Who?

Cleon · 22nd December 2007, 11:34 AM

Yeeha! It's like Mary Whitehouse never died.

Complexity · 22nd December 2007, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by A Christian Sceptic

Actually you'd be surprised at how many Christians were upset at that.

Good!

CapelDodger · 22nd December 2007, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by jjramsey

Hmm, I don't think I've seen that episode on the SciFi channel, so I gather that it hasn't made its way across the Atlantic yet. (Yes, that's a hint for you on the other side of the pond to use spoiler tags.

)

It's not aired yet, it'll be a highlight of the BBC's Xmas viewing.

Quote:

Anyway, it's only just now that Christian Voice has noticed messianic themes in Doctor Who?

He's the saviour of the local tourist trade

. I myself am available for guided tours of key Dr Who and Torchwood locations. And I can show you most of the statues (don't blink, or someone'll have your wallet away).

Darat · 22nd December 2007, 03:14 PM

Now if there really was a group of "militant atheists" with an "agenda" they'd infiltrate the BBC and get them to cancel the Christmas special because of the "relgious protests" - that would be a sure fire method of ensuring that the end of organised religion in the UK!

fuelair · 22nd December 2007, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Cleon

Yeeha! It's like Mary Whitehouse never died.

At least they named a magazine after her!!!

Temporal Renegade · 23rd December 2007, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Cleon

Yeeha! It's like Mary Whitehouse never died.

Maybe she arose three days later.....

ThatSoundAgain · 23rd December 2007, 05:31 PM

Eh. I very seldomly watch TV, but right now I'm visiting my parents and completely by chance came across a Dr. Who episode called "the Christmas Invasion" on some BBC channel or other earlier today.

Never having watched a whole episode before, I watched it all. Kind of silly, and at points almost too much conscious self-parody. Was that last year's special, and is the tone different than usual in these specials?

Nogbad · 23rd December 2007, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by fuelair

At least they named a magazine after her!!!

Did they? *he said pretending innocence*

Thankfully the Christian Voice mob a small cranky fringe - even common or garden Christians find them tedious.

Nogbad · 23rd December 2007, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by ThatSoundAgain

Eh. I very seldomly watch TV, but right now I'm visiting my parents and completely by chance came across a Dr. Who episode called "the Christmas Invasion" on some BBC channel or other earlier today.

Never having watched a whole episode before, I watched it all. Kind of silly, and at points almost too much conscious self-parody. Was that last year's special, and is the tone different than usual in these specials?

They vary some are quite dark and creepy others are quite light hearted. It has been around a long time - most people can recall watching it from behind the sofa as a kid.

jjramsey · 23rd December 2007, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Nogbad

They vary some are quite dark and creepy others are quite light hearted.

And then there are the episodes that mix the dark and creepy with the silly and lighthearted. Actually, most of the episodes are kind of like that. It's part of the fun. That, though, is better discussed in the Entertainment forum.

I barely remember the old episodes that I saw on PBS as a kid, but I love the newer ones.

Tricky · 23rd December 2007, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by A Christian Sceptic

Actually you'd be surprised at how many Christians were upset at that.

I would be surprised. Frankly, I never heard a thing about the Christian symbolism in Lion, Witch and Wardrobe until the movie came out, and all I heard then was Christians raving about what a good metaphor for Christianity it was. Admittedly, I don't read the Christian websites much, but our mainstream local newspaper went on and on about how the local churches were urging everyone to go out and see it.

It was a good movie. I didn't think the Christian symbolism was too heavy handed. I do remember back when ET was released that there were some Christians that were upset that this alien was coming back from the dead, healing dead flowers, curing wounds and doing other assorted miracles.

It seems that many Christians prefer running a closed shop when it comes to miracles.

bignickel · 23rd December 2007, 10:15 PM

Quote:

But group Christian Voice insisted that the Doctor is nothing like a Messiah. Director of the organisation, Stephen Green, said: "The Doctor would have to do a lot more than the usual prancing around to be a messiah."

"Because the real Messiah is expected to do certain things, like leading the Jewish people to victory over all their enemies, and becoming a leader to them, conquering by the sword... Oh, wait a minute."

Robin · 23rd December 2007, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson

I worship Doctor Who. Frankly, Jesus can take a hike. Seriously, did Jesus have anything as cool as a sonic screwdriver?

How do you think Jesus escaped from the tomb? Presumably he then used Venusian Karate on the centurions.

Robin · 23rd December 2007, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by jjramsey

Hmm, I don't think I've seen that episode on the SciFi channel, so I gather that it hasn't made its way across the Atlantic yet. (Yes, that's a hint for you on the other side of the pond to use spoiler tags.

)

Anyway, it's only just now that Christian Voice has noticed messianic themes in Doctor Who?

There were no such themes in the old Doctor Who. They are there in the new eps, but I am never quite sure if it is the Doctor or the Tardis.

brodski · 24th December 2007, 03:26 AM

Originally Posted by Robin

There were no such themes in the old Doctor Who.

Are you sure? "I'm more than just a timelord..."

Kiosk · 24th December 2007, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by ThatSoundAgain

Eh. I very seldomly watch TV, but right now I'm visiting my parents and completely by chance came across a Dr. Who episode called "the Christmas Invasion" on some BBC channel or other earlier today.

Never having watched a whole episode before, I watched it all. Kind of silly, and at points almost too much conscious self-parody. Was that last year's special, and is the tone different than usual in these specials?

Yes, the tone is completely different for the Christmas specials. They tend to be silly romps, full of bad jokes and daft set-pieces. It's a tribute to the concept of the show, that they can do pretty much anything with it... but give me the dark poignancy of "Human Nature" or the creepiness of "Blink" or "The Empty Child" anyday. Much as I love Doctor Who, I'll really only be watching this year's Christmas special to see Kylie Minogue in a maid's outfit.

As for the "Christian" stuff, this is a new thing. When the old Doctor Who shows got heavy, it was usually a Buddhist message they were pushing: lots of the Jon Pertwee episodes had this undercurrent ("Planet Of The Spiders" especially) and "Kinda" from the Peter Davison era was full-on Buddhist propaganda. Despite being an atheist, the current producer Russell T Davies keeps inserting Christian symbolism into the programme for some reason, and it doesn't work so well if you ask me, so no surprise the Christians have taken it as a dig. The last season finale - *** very, very mild spoilers coming up here *** - featured The Doctor as a weird cross between Jesus and Tinkerbell. It was truly preposterous, and not in a good way.

jjramsey · 24th December 2007, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by Robin

There were no such themes in the old Doctor Who. They are there in the new eps, but I am never quite sure if it is the Doctor or the Tardis.

What I meant is the messianic themes were there well before this particular Christmas episode.

ThatSoundAgain · 24th December 2007, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Nogbad

They vary some are quite dark and creepy others are quite light hearted. It has been around a long time - most people can recall watching it from behind the sofa as a kid.

Originally Posted by Kiosk

Yes, the tone is completely different for the Christmas specials. They tend to be silly romps, full of bad jokes and daft set-pieces. It's a tribute to the concept of the show, that they can do pretty much anything with it... but give me the dark poignancy of "Human Nature" or the creepiness of "Blink" or "The Empty Child" anyday. Much as I love Doctor Who, I'll really only be watching this year's Christmas special to see Kylie Minogue in a maid's outfit.

Thanks for the replies, both of you. I figured as much, and may want to see if I can catch other episodes. Silly as it was, it seemed well written.

Temporal Renegade · 25th December 2007, 06:11 AM

With all the troubles in the world, why are they getting so up in arms over a fictional character's supposed divinity?

Oh, wait a minute....

brodski · 25th December 2007, 10:51 AM

It's starting....

mummymonkey · 25th December 2007, 12:04 PM

Not bad I thought. Bit corny but hey, it's Christmas.

Charlie Monoxide · 25th December 2007, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by brodski

Been there, done that.

http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=211

http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=212

Too funny, especially on baby jebus's birthday ...

Charlie (but that's fiction!) Monoxide

Robin · 26th December 2007, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by brodski

Are you sure? "I'm more than just a timelord..."

I'm afraid I don't recognise the reference.

Robin · 26th December 2007, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by jjramsey

What I meant is the messianic themes were there well before this particular Christmas episode.

Yeah, it is a pity, I preferred him as Prometheus.

22nd December 2007, 09:56 AM	#1
Temporal Renegade Last of the Time Lords Join Date: May 2003 Location: University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople Posts: 1,893	'Doctor Who' slammed by Christian groups Wasn't really sure if this belongs in here, or in Entertainment: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a82...an-groups.html http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle3080608.ece
	__________________ "Attention please..... a child has been lost in the Tunnel of Goats......" .......FATHER TED Last edited by Temporal Renegade; 22nd December 2007 at 10:01 AM. Reason: link addition

22nd December 2007, 10:11 AM	#2
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 20,111	I worship Doctor Who. Frankly, Jesus can take a hike. Seriously, did Jesus have anything as cool as a sonic screwdriver?
	__________________ That's what the Internet does -- you get a free bonus prize of Stupid Lies with every box of Delicious Facts. - cracked.com Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers

22nd December 2007, 10:17 AM	#3
Temporal Renegade Last of the Time Lords Join Date: May 2003 Location: University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople Posts: 1,893	Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson I worship Doctor Who. Frankly, Jesus can take a hike. Seriously, did Jesus have anything as cool as a sonic screwdriver? Damn straight!
	__________________ "Attention please..... a child has been lost in the Tunnel of Goats......" .......FATHER TED

22nd December 2007, 10:24 AM	#4
danielk Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Berlin Posts: 1,077	Heh. And there I was thinking they would appreciate that depicting a fictional character as the messiah at least isn't an atheist message. Now they have a theological dispute with Doctor Who...
	__________________ "Our brains are capable of much more than we realize." - mayday Last edited by danielk; 22nd December 2007 at 10:25 AM.

22nd December 2007, 10:26 AM	#5
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,159	Been there, done that. http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=211 http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=212
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,159

22nd December 2007, 10:27 AM	#6
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	Quote: Stephen Green, of the evangelical group Christian Voice, said: “The Doctor would have to do a lot more than the usual prancing around to be a messiah. He has to save people from their sins.” That's just too funny.

22nd December 2007, 10:29 AM	#7
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,399	Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson I worship Doctor Who. Frankly, Jesus can take a hike. Seriously, did Jesus have anything as cool as a sonic screwdriver? 3 words, "Red Sleigh Down". Jesus is teh l33t!
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,399	__________________ AVENGERS!!!.. Turn off the dark!

22nd December 2007, 10:30 AM	#8
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	Those cartoons on Brodski's link are a complete scream.

22nd December 2007, 10:32 AM	#9
danielk Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Berlin Posts: 1,077	Originally Posted by brodski http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=211 http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=212 "Fanfic". Nice gem, thanks.
	__________________ "Our brains are capable of much more than we realize." - mayday

22nd December 2007, 10:39 AM	#10
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,406	Quote: The special Christmas Day episode of the show, which features Kylie Minogue, was accused of subverting religious iconography. Funny, you don't hear a word from these same Christian groups when The Chronicles of Narnia depicts a Jesus Lion, complete with sacrifice and resurrection. I guess it's okay for Christians to subvert religious iconography.

22nd December 2007, 10:49 AM	#11
A Christian Sceptic Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: I'm a male! Posts: 2,288	Originally Posted by Tricky Funny, you don't hear a word from these same Christian groups when The Chronicles of Narnia depicts a Jesus Lion, complete with sacrifice and resurrection. I guess it's okay for Christians to subvert religious iconography. Actually you'd be surprised at how many Christians were upset at that.
	__________________ How's it hanging?

22nd December 2007, 10:50 AM	#12
jjramsey Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,436	Hmm, I don't think I've seen that episode on the SciFi channel, so I gather that it hasn't made its way across the Atlantic yet. (Yes, that's a hint for you on the other side of the pond to use spoiler tags. ) Anyway, it's only just now that Christian Voice has noticed messianic themes in Doctor Who?
	__________________ "One criticism I have with freethought publications in the field of religion is that so often they are wrong; they are inaccurate. . . . The point I am trying to make is that to be authentic freethinkers, to be authentic truth seekers, we must draw on the best information available to substantiate our claims." -- Gerald LaRue, Freethinkers United! Conference 1997, Orlando, Florida

22nd December 2007, 11:34 AM	#13
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,611	Yeeha! It's like Mary Whitehouse never died.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

22nd December 2007, 11:55 AM	#14
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	Originally Posted by A Christian Sceptic Actually you'd be surprised at how many Christians were upset at that. Good!
	__________________ "It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work." - W. Somerset Maugham "Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man." - Bertrand Russell

22nd December 2007, 03:00 PM	#15
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 16,761	Originally Posted by jjramsey Hmm, I don't think I've seen that episode on the SciFi channel, so I gather that it hasn't made its way across the Atlantic yet. (Yes, that's a hint for you on the other side of the pond to use spoiler tags. ) It's not aired yet, it'll be a highlight of the BBC's Xmas viewing. Quote: Anyway, it's only just now that Christian Voice has noticed messianic themes in Doctor Who? He's the saviour of the local tourist trade . I myself am available for guided tours of key Dr Who and Torchwood locations. And I can show you most of the statues (don't blink, or someone'll have your wallet away).
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

22nd December 2007, 03:14 PM	#16
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,990	Now if there really was a group of "militant atheists" with an "agenda" they'd infiltrate the BBC and get them to cancel the Christmas special because of the "relgious protests" - that would be a sure fire method of ensuring that the end of organised religion in the UK!
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

22nd December 2007, 07:11 PM	#17
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,324	Originally Posted by Cleon Yeeha! It's like Mary Whitehouse never died. At least they named a magazine after her!!!
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,324

23rd December 2007, 05:04 PM	#18
Temporal Renegade Last of the Time Lords Join Date: May 2003 Location: University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople Posts: 1,893	Originally Posted by Cleon Yeeha! It's like Mary Whitehouse never died. Maybe she arose three days later.....
	__________________ "Attention please..... a child has been lost in the Tunnel of Goats......" .......FATHER TED

23rd December 2007, 05:31 PM	#19
ThatSoundAgain Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: cph Posts: 1,272	Eh. I very seldomly watch TV, but right now I'm visiting my parents and completely by chance came across a Dr. Who episode called "the Christmas Invasion" on some BBC channel or other earlier today. Never having watched a whole episode before, I watched it all. Kind of silly, and at points almost too much conscious self-parody. Was that last year's special, and is the tone different than usual in these specials?

23rd December 2007, 05:33 PM	#20
Nogbad Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 2,517	Originally Posted by fuelair At least they named a magazine after her!!! Did they? he said pretending innocence Thankfully the Christian Voice mob a small cranky fringe - even common or garden Christians find them tedious.

23rd December 2007, 05:38 PM	#21
Nogbad Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 2,517	Originally Posted by ThatSoundAgain Eh. I very seldomly watch TV, but right now I'm visiting my parents and completely by chance came across a Dr. Who episode called "the Christmas Invasion" on some BBC channel or other earlier today. Never having watched a whole episode before, I watched it all. Kind of silly, and at points almost too much conscious self-parody. Was that last year's special, and is the tone different than usual in these specials? They vary some are quite dark and creepy others are quite light hearted. It has been around a long time - most people can recall watching it from behind the sofa as a kid.

23rd December 2007, 05:44 PM	#22
jjramsey Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,436	Originally Posted by Nogbad They vary some are quite dark and creepy others are quite light hearted. And then there are the episodes that mix the dark and creepy with the silly and lighthearted. Actually, most of the episodes are kind of like that. It's part of the fun. That, though, is better discussed in the Entertainment forum. I barely remember the old episodes that I saw on PBS as a kid, but I love the newer ones.
	__________________ "One criticism I have with freethought publications in the field of religion is that so often they are wrong; they are inaccurate. . . . The point I am trying to make is that to be authentic freethinkers, to be authentic truth seekers, we must draw on the best information available to substantiate our claims." -- Gerald LaRue, Freethinkers United! Conference 1997, Orlando, Florida

23rd December 2007, 08:57 PM	#23
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,406	Originally Posted by A Christian Sceptic Actually you'd be surprised at how many Christians were upset at that. I would be surprised. Frankly, I never heard a thing about the Christian symbolism in Lion, Witch and Wardrobe until the movie came out, and all I heard then was Christians raving about what a good metaphor for Christianity it was. Admittedly, I don't read the Christian websites much, but our mainstream local newspaper went on and on about how the local churches were urging everyone to go out and see it. It was a good movie. I didn't think the Christian symbolism was too heavy handed. I do remember back when ET was released that there were some Christians that were upset that this alien was coming back from the dead, healing dead flowers, curing wounds and doing other assorted miracles. It seems that many Christians prefer running a closed shop when it comes to miracles.

23rd December 2007, 10:15 PM	#24
bignickel Mad Mod Poet God Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,729	Quote: But group Christian Voice insisted that the Doctor is nothing like a Messiah. Director of the organisation, Stephen Green, said: "The Doctor would have to do a lot more than the usual prancing around to be a messiah." "Because the real Messiah is expected to do certain things, like leading the Jewish people to victory over all their enemies, and becoming a leader to them, conquering by the sword... Oh, wait a minute."
	__________________ "You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real. I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that." - Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone

23rd December 2007, 10:51 PM	#25
Robin Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,541	Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson I worship Doctor Who. Frankly, Jesus can take a hike. Seriously, did Jesus have anything as cool as a sonic screwdriver? How do you think Jesus escaped from the tomb? Presumably he then used Venusian Karate on the centurions.
Robin Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,541	__________________ The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"

23rd December 2007, 10:53 PM	#26
Robin Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,541	Originally Posted by jjramsey Hmm, I don't think I've seen that episode on the SciFi channel, so I gather that it hasn't made its way across the Atlantic yet. (Yes, that's a hint for you on the other side of the pond to use spoiler tags. ) Anyway, it's only just now that Christian Voice has noticed messianic themes in Doctor Who? There were no such themes in the old Doctor Who. They are there in the new eps, but I am never quite sure if it is the Doctor or the Tardis.
Robin Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,541	__________________ The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"

24th December 2007, 03:26 AM	#27
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,159	Originally Posted by Robin There were no such themes in the old Doctor Who. Are you sure? "I'm more than just a timelord..."
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,159

24th December 2007, 05:02 AM	#28
Kiosk He Thinks He's People Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 349	Originally Posted by ThatSoundAgain Eh. I very seldomly watch TV, but right now I'm visiting my parents and completely by chance came across a Dr. Who episode called "the Christmas Invasion" on some BBC channel or other earlier today. Never having watched a whole episode before, I watched it all. Kind of silly, and at points almost too much conscious self-parody. Was that last year's special, and is the tone different than usual in these specials? Yes, the tone is completely different for the Christmas specials. They tend to be silly romps, full of bad jokes and daft set-pieces. It's a tribute to the concept of the show, that they can do pretty much anything with it... but give me the dark poignancy of "Human Nature" or the creepiness of "Blink" or "The Empty Child" anyday. Much as I love Doctor Who, I'll really only be watching this year's Christmas special to see Kylie Minogue in a maid's outfit. As for the "Christian" stuff, this is a new thing. When the old Doctor Who shows got heavy, it was usually a Buddhist message they were pushing: lots of the Jon Pertwee episodes had this undercurrent ("Planet Of The Spiders" especially) and "Kinda" from the Peter Davison era was full-on Buddhist propaganda. Despite being an atheist, the current producer Russell T Davies keeps inserting Christian symbolism into the programme for some reason, and it doesn't work so well if you ask me, so no surprise the Christians have taken it as a dig. The last season finale - * very, very mild spoilers coming up here * - featured The Doctor as a weird cross between Jesus and Tinkerbell. It was truly preposterous, and not in a good way.
	__________________ Many of the medical profession are sceptical about my work. They point to my record of treatment of athlete's foot sufferers - 84 dead, 65 severely wounded, and 12 missing believed cured. But then, people laughed at Bob Hope. People laughed at my wife when she wrapped herself up in greaseproof paper and hopped into the Social Security office - but that doesn't mean that Pasteur was wrong.

24th December 2007, 06:59 AM	#29
jjramsey Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,436	Originally Posted by Robin There were no such themes in the old Doctor Who. They are there in the new eps, but I am never quite sure if it is the Doctor or the Tardis. What I meant is the messianic themes were there well before this particular Christmas episode.
	__________________ "One criticism I have with freethought publications in the field of religion is that so often they are wrong; they are inaccurate. . . . The point I am trying to make is that to be authentic freethinkers, to be authentic truth seekers, we must draw on the best information available to substantiate our claims." -- Gerald LaRue, Freethinkers United! Conference 1997, Orlando, Florida

24th December 2007, 04:54 PM	#30
ThatSoundAgain Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: cph Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by Nogbad They vary some are quite dark and creepy others are quite light hearted. It has been around a long time - most people can recall watching it from behind the sofa as a kid. Originally Posted by Kiosk Yes, the tone is completely different for the Christmas specials. They tend to be silly romps, full of bad jokes and daft set-pieces. It's a tribute to the concept of the show, that they can do pretty much anything with it... but give me the dark poignancy of "Human Nature" or the creepiness of "Blink" or "The Empty Child" anyday. Much as I love Doctor Who, I'll really only be watching this year's Christmas special to see Kylie Minogue in a maid's outfit. Thanks for the replies, both of you. I figured as much, and may want to see if I can catch other episodes. Silly as it was, it seemed well written.

25th December 2007, 06:11 AM	#31
Temporal Renegade Last of the Time Lords Join Date: May 2003 Location: University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople Posts: 1,893	With all the troubles in the world, why are they getting so up in arms over a fictional character's supposed divinity? Oh, wait a minute....
	__________________ "Attention please..... a child has been lost in the Tunnel of Goats......" .......FATHER TED

25th December 2007, 10:51 AM	#32
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,159	It's starting....
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,159

25th December 2007, 12:04 PM	#33
mummymonkey Did you spill my pint? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,921	Not bad I thought. Bit corny but hey, it's Christmas.
	__________________ Knees bent, arms stretched, Ra! Ra! Ra!

25th December 2007, 02:11 PM	#34
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	Originally Posted by brodski Been there, done that. http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=211 http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=212 Too funny, especially on baby jebus's birthday ... Charlie (but that's fiction!) Monoxide
	__________________ Major General Wag of JREF

26th December 2007, 09:15 PM	#35
Robin Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,541	Originally Posted by brodski Are you sure? "I'm more than just a timelord..." I'm afraid I don't recognise the reference.
Robin Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,541	__________________ The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"