How did the tiger escape?

Puppycow · 27th December 2007, 12:12 AM

I thought of posting in the science forum, but this seems more like something a conjurer could explain.

US zoo baffled by tiger's escape

Quote:

Police shot dead the 300lb (136kg) beast, named Tatiana, which mauled a keeper just before Christmas last year.

Zoo officials said they were baffled as to how the Siberian tiger got out at around closing time on Christmas Day.
...

Officials were at a loss to explain how Tatiana got out of the enclosure, which is surrounded by a 15ft (4.5m) wide moat and a 20ft (6m) high wall.

The zoo's director of animal care and conservation, Robert Jenkins, said: "There was no way out through the door.

"The animal appears to have climbed or otherwise leaped out of the enclosure."

Any theories about how this might have happened? Maybe a tiger can climb straight up a 20 foot wall (the most straightforward explanation I suppose), or jump and maybe catch the top of the ledge and pull himself up and over?

Or is it more likely that someone opened the door and let the tiger out?

Garrette · 27th December 2007, 07:46 AM

I doubt magician's have more ability (or even equivalent ability) to solve this than do the investigators or zookeepers. The tiger does not set out to deceive.

Now if you were asking us to solve a murder from an old series like Colombo, I'd be all over it.

Puppycow · 27th December 2007, 08:51 AM

Yeah, I suppose a conjurer's guess is as good as anyone's, but it doesn't really fit into any other forum either.

A more recent update

Quote:

Sources close to the investigation told the San Francisco Chronicle that police are probing whether one of the Siberian tiger's three victims climbed over a fence Christmas Day and then dangled a leg or other body part over the moat.

Police said Carlos Sousa, 17, of San Jose was killed just outside the tiger's enclosure. The two others, who were injured, were about 300 yards away by a cafe. Watch more on clues from the deadly attack »

A shoe and blood were found between the fence and the moat, the Chronicle reported, and a footprint has been found on a metal fence at the zoo. The investigation is looking into the possibility that the tiger escaped by latching on to a leg or other body part, the paper reported.

"Somebody created a situation that really agitated [the tiger] and and gave her some method to break her out," zoo director Manuel Mollinedo told the Chronicle. "A couple of feet dangling over the edge could possibly have done it."

Garrette · 27th December 2007, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Yeah, I suppose a conjurer's guess is as good as anyone's, but it doesn't really fit into any other forum either.

A more recent update

More evidence of how stupid people can be, I suppose.

AgeGap · 27th December 2007, 11:46 AM

Are tigers in America more dangerous than guns now?
Shame the zoo was not idiot proof.

Azrael 5 · 27th December 2007, 12:10 PM

Current events and social issues would be the place for this I guess.

But if they didnt keep them in Zoos there wouldn't be this problem in first place.

Lisa Simpson · 27th December 2007, 12:14 PM

More important - will he be up for a Darwin award?

Denial · 27th December 2007, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson

More important - will he be up for a Darwin award?

No. The Darwin awards website explicitly states that "climbing into zoo cages is not a Darwin".

Lisa Simpson · 27th December 2007, 12:44 PM

Aw....

Ladewig · 27th December 2007, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Denial

No. The Darwin awards website explicitly states that "climbing into zoo cages is not a Darwin".

Do they give a reason why that incredibly stupid and often fatal activity is not eligible?

Modified · 27th December 2007, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

Do they give a reason why that incredibly stupid and often fatal activity is not eligible?

Too common, I would guess.

Tokenconservative · 27th December 2007, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Garrette

I doubt magician's have more ability (or even equivalent ability) to solve this than do the investigators or zookeepers. The tiger does not set out to deceive.

Now if you were asking us to solve a murder from an old series like Colombo, I'd be all over it.

Oh, uh, gee...one more thing....

Denial · 27th December 2007, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Modified

Too common, I would guess.

That's correct.

From the "not a Darwin"-list:

Whizzing on an electric wire

Smoking in an oxygen tent

Being hit by a train or automobile

Aerosol cans, etc., in the oven

Climbing into zoo cages

Falling off precipice while posing or pissing

Carbon monoxide poisoning

Most autoerotic deaths

all too common!

http://darwinawards.com/rules/ - middle of the page, right side.

"It takes a phenomenal failure of common sense to earn a Darwin Award. Common idiocies such as playing Russian roulette, falling off a boat, or sleeping next to a smoldering cigarette are not sufficient to win the dubious distinction of a Darwin. On the other hand, playing Russian roulette with land mines, jumping off a boat into shark-infested waters knowing you cannot swim, or sleeping with a smoldering cigarette under an oxygen tent... just might win you a Darwin Award!"

/derail

patchbunny · 27th December 2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

A shoe and blood were found between the fence and the moat, the Chronicle reported, and a footprint has been found on a metal fence at the zoo. The investigation is looking into the possibility that the tiger escaped by latching on to a leg or other body part, the paper reported.

A press conference at noon today with the SFPD and the SF Zoo just confirmed that the report of the shoe and blood found between the fence and the moat is false. SFPD's forensics unit has the shoes from all three victims and is comparing the tread pattern against the one found to see if it matches.

I love the reporting on this one. The wall and moat have been changing height and width every news report, with most reports staing the wall was 20' high. The zoo director confirmed the dimensions at the press conference: 12.5' high wall, 33' wide moat.

--Patch

Garrette · 27th December 2007, 01:44 PM

Just to add my grammatical apologies for using an apostrophe to denote the plural of magician in my first post in this thread.

In penance, I am going to practice autoeroticism while smoking in the oxygen tent I place in my car which I will drive into a tiger cage falling over a cliff and onto a railroad track in front of a speeding train which will reach me just as I whiz on the third rail.

Denial · 27th December 2007, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by patchbunny

The zoo director confirmed the dimensions at the press conference: 12.5' high wall, 33' wide moat.

From wikipedia: In the wild, tigers can leap as high as 5 m (16 ft) and as far as 9–10 m (30–33 ft), making them one of the highest-jumping mammals.

I assume the moat was right up to the wall, and that tigers can't jump 10 meters horisontaly and 5 meters vertically at the same time, but Wiki doesn't say how high they can jump in captivity.

ETA: found this vid a bit impressive.
http://www.truveo.com/How-high-can-T.../id/3723451297

Sugriva · 27th December 2007, 03:27 PM

Look, I'm not sure how the tiger got out but I'm a bit concerned that noone has bothered to even launch a cursory investigation of the chimpanzees....

fuelair · 27th December 2007, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I thought of posting in the science forum, but this seems more like something a conjurer could explain.

US zoo baffled by tiger's escape

Any theories about how this might have happened? Maybe a tiger can climb straight up a 20 foot wall (the most straightforward explanation I suppose), or jump and maybe catch the top of the ledge and pull himself up and over?

Or is it more likely that someone opened the door and let the tiger out?

No door - as explained several times. I'm figuring he used a wormhole. Cats are good at that sort of thing.

WildCat · 27th December 2007, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Denial

From wikipedia: In the wild, tigers can leap as high as 5 m (16 ft) and as far as 9–10 m (30–33 ft), making them one of the highest-jumping mammals.

Apparently the wall was supposed to be 16.5 ft. high, but the zoo's wall was only 12.5 ft. high.

Gonna be a big lawsuit over that one!

Azrael 5 · 27th December 2007, 04:46 PM

News is reporting the wall in the compound was a metre short of the statutory requirement,thus how the tiger jumped out.
Everyone knows Tiggers bounce.

I don't agree with killing it-whats wrong with a tranquilizer? Yanks just have to shoot to kill! (no offence to US forumites).

a_unique_person · 27th December 2007, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Yeah, I suppose a conjurer's guess is as good as anyone's, but it doesn't really fit into any other forum either.

A more recent update

I was at the Melbourne Zoo once, and a large crowd of people was taunting and laughing at an Ape. The more agitated it got, the more they laughed and taunted it. It was disgusting, I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

QBinBee · 27th December 2007, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Azrael 5

News is reporting the wall in the compound was a metre short of the statutory requirement,thus how the tiger jumped out.
Everyone knows Tiggers bounce.

I don't agree with killing it-whats wrong with a tranquilizer? Yanks just have to shoot to kill! (no offence to US forumites).

None taken. Remember us Californians are a vengeful people. Not even the animals are immune to our capital punishment.

danielk · 27th December 2007, 04:58 PM

"A tiger in America?!"

WildCat · 27th December 2007, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Azrael 5

I don't agree with killing it-whats wrong with a tranquilizer? Yanks just have to shoot to kill! (no offence to US forumites).

The zoo had tranquilizer guns but the police (not zoo personnell) found the tiger first as it was mauling someone else and when officers yelled at it it started coming towards them. Really had no choice but to shoot it.

But this thread would be on page 16 by now if they had Tasered it!

Lisa Simpson · 27th December 2007, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

The zoo had tranquilizer guns but the police (not zoo personnell) found the tiger first as it was mauling someone else and when officers yelled at it it started coming towards them. Really had no choice but to shoot it.

I agree. Not only did the police have to protect the mauled, but still alive guy, but they also had to protect themselves.

greymatters · 27th December 2007, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Azrael 5

I don't agree with killing it-whats wrong with a tranquilizer? Yanks just have to shoot to kill! (no offence to US forumites).

Tranquilizer guns in the real world take time to get into the bloodstream and make the tiger sleepy. As the guy was being mauled by the tiger when they found him, tranquilizers weren't even an option.

Bullets, fortunately, take effect immediately.

My major question is: How is the moat supposed to be a security measure? True, most felines don't care for water. However, anyone who visits or lives in Vegas and has been to the Mirage will tell you how much those tigers love their swimming pools. Using a moat to stop tigers from getting to visitors is a little like trying to prevent kids from coming to your house by building it out of candy.

Azrael 5 · 27th December 2007, 05:38 PM

Apparently the Zoo is a crime scene! Can animals commit crimes?

Two waterfowl have been arrested for making false witness statements.

Denial · 27th December 2007, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by greymatters

My major question is: How is the moat supposed to be a security measure? True, most felines don't care for water. However, anyone who visits or lives in Vegas and has been to the Mirage will tell you how much those tigers love their swimming pools. Using a moat to stop tigers from getting to visitors is a little like trying to prevent kids from coming to your house by building it out of candy.

Maybe tigers have a hard time jumping 5 meters into the air when they're neck deep in water?

latent aaaack · 27th December 2007, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Azrael 5

Apparently the Zoo is a crime scene! Can animals commit crimes?

Two waterfowl have been arrested for making false witness statements.

I would've liked it to stay alive so a glimpse into the mind of a killer tiger that can jump really high could be made by the police forensic experts. The tiger could've even gone on Larry King from it's cell and been asked questions about his side of the story and explain his motivation or explain how it's all a set up and vow to not rest until the real animal culprit that did that is caught.

The tiger could merely have jumped out of the pit when he saw a guy get mauled by a kangaroo, to scare it off and drag the guy to safety, but then the kangaroo left the scene and the cops found the tiger there. Everybody always blames the tiger first!

patchbunny · 27th December 2007, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Denial

From wikipedia: In the wild, tigers can leap as high as 5 m (16 ft) and as far as 9–10 m (30–33 ft), making them one of the highest-jumping mammals.

I assume the moat was right up to the wall, and that tigers can't jump 10 meters horisontaly and 5 meters vertically at the same time, but Wiki doesn't say how high they can jump in captivity.

Believe that tigers in captivity don't jump as high as their wild cousins as they don't get the physical exercise. Bunch of damn couch potatoes, those zoo tigers.

No one's shown pictures of the enclosure yet, but I believe the moat is against the wall, so although a tiger may be able to leap 30-33 ft and 16 ft high, it's not 16 ft in the air at the end of that jump.

Clearly, Tatiana was a trained parkour tiger.

Nogbad · 27th December 2007, 06:39 PM

I think moat is a loose term in this case - they generally don't have water in them.

Siberian tigers are very rare and to lose a female one in this way - blown to pieces by shotguns - has to be considered a major failure. The Zoo has just made a major negative contribution to wild life conservation.

If the three youths were innocent victims then clearly this is a very tragic incident for them and their families also (well, to be fair, it is still tragic even they were being jerks). The tiger apparently went after all three ignoring other people as it followed the youths. If they tried to annoy it when it was in its pen they discovered to their cost that tigers can really bear a grudge rather well.

For News reporters to be questioning why the tiger was not put down when it attacked a keeper last year beggers belief. FFS! it is a tiger.

fuelair · 27th December 2007, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by greymatters

Tranquilizer guns in the real world take time to get into the bloodstream and make the tiger sleepy. As the guy was being mauled by the tiger when they found him, tranquilizers weren't even an option.

Bullets, fortunately, take effect immediately.

My major question is: How is the moat supposed to be a security measure? True, most felines don't care for water. However, anyone who visits or lives in Vegas and has been to the Mirage will tell you how much those tigers love their swimming pools. Using a moat to stop tigers from getting to visitors is a little like trying to prevent kids from coming to your house by building it out of candy.

Or the zoo in Tampa where they have Siberians - they love to roll their barrel (55 G. drum) floaty toy.

The Central Scrutinizer · 27th December 2007, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

The zoo had tranquilizer guns but the police (not zoo personnell) found the tiger first as it was mauling someone else and when officers yelled at it it started coming towards them. Really had no choice but to shoot it.

But this thread would be on page 16 by now if they had Tasered it!

If I see a tiger on an airplane, I´ll taser it.

The Central Scrutinizer · 27th December 2007, 07:09 PM

This happened in San Francisco. Does anyone know if the tiger was homosexual?

latent aaaack · 27th December 2007, 07:23 PM

So only one time at a zoo that the AZA deemed safe did a tiger leap out of a too-low wall and maul a bunch of people. Besides that they really know what they're doing and no need to retract their 'good-standing' status with the AZA because of one such 'oops.'

To be fair they really couldn't have said anything else and looked less dumb. "After viewing the reports of a tiger jumping out of it's enclosure and killing people at this previously accredited zoo, the AZA wishes to announce it has changed it's mind about whether that zoo is safe and revokes it's accreditation. Our hearts go out to the family of this cowardly tiger attack."

Quote:

The AZA said in a statement that this was the first time a visitor had been killed because of an animal escape at an AZA-accredited zoo.
"The San Francisco Zoo is a great zoo, it's an accredited AZA member in good standing, and it has our support during this difficult time," AZA president and chief executive Jim Maddy said.

Lensman · 27th December 2007, 07:57 PM

Bushie done it!

TragicMonkey · 28th December 2007, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by fuelair

No door - as explained several times. I'm figuring he used a wormhole. Cats are good at that sort of thing.

Read all about felines and wormholes in my upcoming children's classic, The Tiger, The Warlock, and the Chifforobe. It's about four senior citizens who stumble into a magical world full of talking animals who are all both retarded and religious zealots, and face a magical tiger and a warlock or something.

WildCat · 28th December 2007, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by greymatters

My major question is: How is the moat supposed to be a security measure? True, most felines don't care for water.

Moats don't necessarily contain water. Or crocodiles for that matter, even though every cartoon moat has water and crocs.

TragicMonkey · 28th December 2007, 01:44 PM

A zoo moat around a tiger enclosure would definitely not contain water. Tigers not only know how to swim, but they'll do it for fun.

fuelair · 28th December 2007, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

A zoo moat around a tiger enclosure would definitely not contain water. Tigers not only know how to swim, but they'll do it for fun.

But, unless it is shallow, they can't use a waterfilled one as a good launch point.

27th December 2007, 12:12 AM	#1
Puppycow Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 6,323	How did the tiger escape? I thought of posting in the science forum, but this seems more like something a conjurer could explain. US zoo baffled by tiger's escape Quote: Police shot dead the 300lb (136kg) beast, named Tatiana, which mauled a keeper just before Christmas last year. Zoo officials said they were baffled as to how the Siberian tiger got out at around closing time on Christmas Day. ... Officials were at a loss to explain how Tatiana got out of the enclosure, which is surrounded by a 15ft (4.5m) wide moat and a 20ft (6m) high wall. The zoo's director of animal care and conservation, Robert Jenkins, said: "There was no way out through the door. "The animal appears to have climbed or otherwise leaped out of the enclosure." Any theories about how this might have happened? Maybe a tiger can climb straight up a 20 foot wall (the most straightforward explanation I suppose), or jump and maybe catch the top of the ledge and pull himself up and over? Or is it more likely that someone opened the door and let the tiger out?
	__________________ I can't come to bed yet, honey. Someone on the Internet is wrong. -XKCD Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous Religions are God's way of telling us that He doesn't exist. -Pat Condell Last edited by Puppycow; 27th December 2007 at 12:19 AM.

27th December 2007, 07:46 AM	#2
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,964	I doubt magician's have more ability (or even equivalent ability) to solve this than do the investigators or zookeepers. The tiger does not set out to deceive. Now if you were asking us to solve a murder from an old series like Colombo, I'd be all over it.
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,964	__________________ My kids still love me.

27th December 2007, 08:51 AM	#3
Puppycow Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 6,323	Yeah, I suppose a conjurer's guess is as good as anyone's, but it doesn't really fit into any other forum either. A more recent update Quote: Sources close to the investigation told the San Francisco Chronicle that police are probing whether one of the Siberian tiger's three victims climbed over a fence Christmas Day and then dangled a leg or other body part over the moat. Police said Carlos Sousa, 17, of San Jose was killed just outside the tiger's enclosure. The two others, who were injured, were about 300 yards away by a cafe. Watch more on clues from the deadly attack » A shoe and blood were found between the fence and the moat, the Chronicle reported, and a footprint has been found on a metal fence at the zoo. The investigation is looking into the possibility that the tiger escaped by latching on to a leg or other body part, the paper reported. "Somebody created a situation that really agitated [the tiger] and and gave her some method to break her out," zoo director Manuel Mollinedo told the Chronicle. "A couple of feet dangling over the edge could possibly have done it."
	__________________ I can't come to bed yet, honey. Someone on the Internet is wrong. -XKCD Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous Religions are God's way of telling us that He doesn't exist. -Pat Condell

27th December 2007, 09:03 AM	#4
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,964	Originally Posted by Puppycow Yeah, I suppose a conjurer's guess is as good as anyone's, but it doesn't really fit into any other forum either. A more recent update More evidence of how stupid people can be, I suppose.
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,964	__________________ My kids still love me.

27th December 2007, 11:46 AM	#5
AgeGap Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,803	Are tigers in America more dangerous than guns now? Shame the zoo was not idiot proof.
AgeGap Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,803

27th December 2007, 12:10 PM	#6
Azrael 5 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 4,219	Current events and social issues would be the place for this I guess. But if they didnt keep them in Zoos there wouldn't be this problem in first place.
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown Photography here

27th December 2007, 12:14 PM	#7
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 14,830	More important - will he be up for a Darwin award?
	__________________ In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the stakes at issue. - Wallace Sayre Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers

27th December 2007, 12:41 PM	#8
Denial Scholar Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Christgrinding Avenue Posts: 93	Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson More important - will he be up for a Darwin award? No. The Darwin awards website explicitly states that "climbing into zoo cages is not a Darwin".

27th December 2007, 12:44 PM	#9
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 14,830	Aw....
	__________________ In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the stakes at issue. - Wallace Sayre Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers

27th December 2007, 01:00 PM	#10
Ladewig Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 8,960	Originally Posted by Denial No. The Darwin awards website explicitly states that "climbing into zoo cages is not a Darwin". Do they give a reason why that incredibly stupid and often fatal activity is not eligible?
	__________________ When I see all the kooky things posted on the JREF forums, I can't help but think of Max Bialystock's lament: "They come here, they all come here, how do they find us?"

27th December 2007, 01:03 PM	#11
Modified Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SW Florida Posts: 1,905	Originally Posted by Ladewig Do they give a reason why that incredibly stupid and often fatal activity is not eligible? Too common, I would guess.

27th December 2007, 01:11 PM	#12
Tokenconservative Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,204	Originally Posted by Garrette I doubt magician's have more ability (or even equivalent ability) to solve this than do the investigators or zookeepers. The tiger does not set out to deceive. Now if you were asking us to solve a murder from an old series like Colombo, I'd be all over it. Oh, uh, gee...one more thing....

27th December 2007, 01:34 PM	#13
Denial Scholar Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Christgrinding Avenue Posts: 93	Originally Posted by Modified Too common, I would guess. That's correct. From the "not a Darwin"-list: Whizzing on an electric wire Smoking in an oxygen tent Being hit by a train or automobile Aerosol cans, etc., in the oven Climbing into zoo cages Falling off precipice while posing or pissing Carbon monoxide poisoning Most autoerotic deaths all too common! http://darwinawards.com/rules/ - middle of the page, right side. "It takes a phenomenal failure of common sense to earn a Darwin Award. Common idiocies such as playing Russian roulette, falling off a boat, or sleeping next to a smoldering cigarette are not sufficient to win the dubious distinction of a Darwin. On the other hand, playing Russian roulette with land mines, jumping off a boat into shark-infested waters knowing you cannot swim, or sleeping with a smoldering cigarette under an oxygen tent... just might win you a Darwin Award!" /derail

27th December 2007, 01:40 PM	#14
patchbunny Muse Join Date: May 2004 Location: Right about... here. Posts: 661	Quote: A shoe and blood were found between the fence and the moat, the Chronicle reported, and a footprint has been found on a metal fence at the zoo. The investigation is looking into the possibility that the tiger escaped by latching on to a leg or other body part, the paper reported. A press conference at noon today with the SFPD and the SF Zoo just confirmed that the report of the shoe and blood found between the fence and the moat is false. SFPD's forensics unit has the shoes from all three victims and is comparing the tread pattern against the one found to see if it matches. I love the reporting on this one. The wall and moat have been changing height and width every news report, with most reports staing the wall was 20' high. The zoo director confirmed the dimensions at the press conference: 12.5' high wall, 33' wide moat. --Patch
	__________________ "So, they laugh at my boner, will they? I'll show them! I'll show them how many boners the Joker can make!" -- The Joker, Batman #66

27th December 2007, 01:44 PM	#15
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,964	Just to add my grammatical apologies for using an apostrophe to denote the plural of magician in my first post in this thread. In penance, I am going to practice autoeroticism while smoking in the oxygen tent I place in my car which I will drive into a tiger cage falling over a cliff and onto a railroad track in front of a speeding train which will reach me just as I whiz on the third rail.
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,964	__________________ My kids still love me.

27th December 2007, 01:56 PM	#16
Denial Scholar Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Christgrinding Avenue Posts: 93	Originally Posted by patchbunny The zoo director confirmed the dimensions at the press conference: 12.5' high wall, 33' wide moat. From wikipedia: In the wild, tigers can leap as high as 5 m (16 ft) and as far as 9–10 m (30–33 ft), making them one of the highest-jumping mammals. I assume the moat was right up to the wall, and that tigers can't jump 10 meters horisontaly and 5 meters vertically at the same time, but Wiki doesn't say how high they can jump in captivity. ETA: found this vid a bit impressive. http://www.truveo.com/How-high-can-T.../id/3723451297
	Last edited by Denial; 27th December 2007 at 02:01 PM.

27th December 2007, 03:27 PM	#17
Sugriva Scholar Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	Look, I'm not sure how the tiger got out but I'm a bit concerned that noone has bothered to even launch a cursory investigation of the chimpanzees....
Sugriva Scholar Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87

27th December 2007, 03:28 PM	#18
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 16,733	Originally Posted by Puppycow I thought of posting in the science forum, but this seems more like something a conjurer could explain. US zoo baffled by tiger's escape Any theories about how this might have happened? Maybe a tiger can climb straight up a 20 foot wall (the most straightforward explanation I suppose), or jump and maybe catch the top of the ledge and pull himself up and over? Or is it more likely that someone opened the door and let the tiger out? No door - as explained several times. I'm figuring he used a wormhole. Cats are good at that sort of thing.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 16,733

27th December 2007, 04:06 PM	#19
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 24,970	Originally Posted by Denial From wikipedia: In the wild, tigers can leap as high as 5 m (16 ft) and as far as 9–10 m (30–33 ft), making them one of the highest-jumping mammals. Apparently the wall was supposed to be 16.5 ft. high, but the zoo's wall was only 12.5 ft. high. Gonna be a big lawsuit over that one!
	__________________ "My opinion is not uninformed there are just many things I have no clue about." -atavisms "Iran DOES have the right and good reason to attack Israel." -parky76

27th December 2007, 04:46 PM	#20
Azrael 5 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 4,219	News is reporting the wall in the compound was a metre short of the statutory requirement,thus how the tiger jumped out. Everyone knows Tiggers bounce. I don't agree with killing it-whats wrong with a tranquilizer? Yanks just have to shoot to kill! (no offence to US forumites).
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown Photography here

27th December 2007, 04:52 PM	#21
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sitting in the ghostly glow of an LCD screen Posts: 27,434	Originally Posted by Puppycow Yeah, I suppose a conjurer's guess is as good as anyone's, but it doesn't really fit into any other forum either. A more recent update I was at the Melbourne Zoo once, and a large crowd of people was taunting and laughing at an Ape. The more agitated it got, the more they laughed and taunted it. It was disgusting, I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
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27th December 2007, 04:55 PM	#22
QBinBee Scholar Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 76	Originally Posted by Azrael 5 News is reporting the wall in the compound was a metre short of the statutory requirement,thus how the tiger jumped out. Everyone knows Tiggers bounce. I don't agree with killing it-whats wrong with a tranquilizer? Yanks just have to shoot to kill! (no offence to US forumites). None taken. Remember us Californians are a vengeful people. Not even the animals are immune to our capital punishment.
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27th December 2007, 04:58 PM	#23
danielk Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Berlin Posts: 1,077	"A tiger in America?!"
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27th December 2007, 05:00 PM	#24
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 24,970	Originally Posted by Azrael 5 I don't agree with killing it-whats wrong with a tranquilizer? Yanks just have to shoot to kill! (no offence to US forumites). The zoo had tranquilizer guns but the police (not zoo personnell) found the tiger first as it was mauling someone else and when officers yelled at it it started coming towards them. Really had no choice but to shoot it. But this thread would be on page 16 by now if they had Tasered it!
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27th December 2007, 05:02 PM	#25
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 14,830	Originally Posted by WildCat The zoo had tranquilizer guns but the police (not zoo personnell) found the tiger first as it was mauling someone else and when officers yelled at it it started coming towards them. Really had no choice but to shoot it. I agree. Not only did the police have to protect the mauled, but still alive guy, but they also had to protect themselves.
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27th December 2007, 05:35 PM	#26
greymatters Muse Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 751	Originally Posted by Azrael 5 I don't agree with killing it-whats wrong with a tranquilizer? Yanks just have to shoot to kill! (no offence to US forumites). Tranquilizer guns in the real world take time to get into the bloodstream and make the tiger sleepy. As the guy was being mauled by the tiger when they found him, tranquilizers weren't even an option. Bullets, fortunately, take effect immediately. My major question is: How is the moat supposed to be a security measure? True, most felines don't care for water. However, anyone who visits or lives in Vegas and has been to the Mirage will tell you how much those tigers love their swimming pools. Using a moat to stop tigers from getting to visitors is a little like trying to prevent kids from coming to your house by building it out of candy.
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27th December 2007, 05:38 PM	#27
Azrael 5 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 4,219	Apparently the Zoo is a crime scene! Can animals commit crimes? Two waterfowl have been arrested for making false witness statements.
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27th December 2007, 06:08 PM	#28
Denial Scholar Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Christgrinding Avenue Posts: 93	Originally Posted by greymatters My major question is: How is the moat supposed to be a security measure? True, most felines don't care for water. However, anyone who visits or lives in Vegas and has been to the Mirage will tell you how much those tigers love their swimming pools. Using a moat to stop tigers from getting to visitors is a little like trying to prevent kids from coming to your house by building it out of candy. Maybe tigers have a hard time jumping 5 meters into the air when they're neck deep in water?

27th December 2007, 06:09 PM	#29
latent aaaack Muse Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: 98229 Posts: 912	Originally Posted by Azrael 5 Apparently the Zoo is a crime scene! Can animals commit crimes? Two waterfowl have been arrested for making false witness statements. I would've liked it to stay alive so a glimpse into the mind of a killer tiger that can jump really high could be made by the police forensic experts. The tiger could've even gone on Larry King from it's cell and been asked questions about his side of the story and explain his motivation or explain how it's all a set up and vow to not rest until the real animal culprit that did that is caught. The tiger could merely have jumped out of the pit when he saw a guy get mauled by a kangaroo, to scare it off and drag the guy to safety, but then the kangaroo left the scene and the cops found the tiger there. Everybody always blames the tiger first!
	Last edited by latent aaaack; 27th December 2007 at 06:15 PM.

27th December 2007, 06:22 PM	#30
patchbunny Muse Join Date: May 2004 Location: Right about... here. Posts: 661	Originally Posted by Denial From wikipedia: In the wild, tigers can leap as high as 5 m (16 ft) and as far as 9–10 m (30–33 ft), making them one of the highest-jumping mammals. I assume the moat was right up to the wall, and that tigers can't jump 10 meters horisontaly and 5 meters vertically at the same time, but Wiki doesn't say how high they can jump in captivity. Believe that tigers in captivity don't jump as high as their wild cousins as they don't get the physical exercise. Bunch of damn couch potatoes, those zoo tigers. No one's shown pictures of the enclosure yet, but I believe the moat is against the wall, so although a tiger may be able to leap 30-33 ft and 16 ft high, it's not 16 ft in the air at the end of that jump. Clearly, Tatiana was a trained parkour tiger.
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27th December 2007, 06:39 PM	#31
Nogbad Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 2,091	I think moat is a loose term in this case - they generally don't have water in them. Siberian tigers are very rare and to lose a female one in this way - blown to pieces by shotguns - has to be considered a major failure. The Zoo has just made a major negative contribution to wild life conservation. If the three youths were innocent victims then clearly this is a very tragic incident for them and their families also (well, to be fair, it is still tragic even they were being jerks). The tiger apparently went after all three ignoring other people as it followed the youths. If they tried to annoy it when it was in its pen they discovered to their cost that tigers can really bear a grudge rather well. For News reporters to be questioning why the tiger was not put down when it attacked a keeper last year beggers belief. FFS! it is a tiger.

27th December 2007, 07:03 PM	#32
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 16,733	Originally Posted by greymatters Tranquilizer guns in the real world take time to get into the bloodstream and make the tiger sleepy. As the guy was being mauled by the tiger when they found him, tranquilizers weren't even an option. Bullets, fortunately, take effect immediately. My major question is: How is the moat supposed to be a security measure? True, most felines don't care for water. However, anyone who visits or lives in Vegas and has been to the Mirage will tell you how much those tigers love their swimming pools. Using a moat to stop tigers from getting to visitors is a little like trying to prevent kids from coming to your house by building it out of candy. Or the zoo in Tampa where they have Siberians - they love to roll their barrel (55 G. drum) floaty toy.
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27th December 2007, 07:08 PM	#33
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 21,721	Originally Posted by WildCat The zoo had tranquilizer guns but the police (not zoo personnell) found the tiger first as it was mauling someone else and when officers yelled at it it started coming towards them. Really had no choice but to shoot it. But this thread would be on page 16 by now if they had Tasered it! If I see a tiger on an airplane, I´ll taser it.
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27th December 2007, 07:09 PM	#34
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 21,721	This happened in San Francisco. Does anyone know if the tiger was homosexual?
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27th December 2007, 07:23 PM	#35
latent aaaack Muse Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: 98229 Posts: 912	So only one time at a zoo that the AZA deemed safe did a tiger leap out of a too-low wall and maul a bunch of people. Besides that they really know what they're doing and no need to retract their 'good-standing' status with the AZA because of one such 'oops.' To be fair they really couldn't have said anything else and looked less dumb. "After viewing the reports of a tiger jumping out of it's enclosure and killing people at this previously accredited zoo, the AZA wishes to announce it has changed it's mind about whether that zoo is safe and revokes it's accreditation. Our hearts go out to the family of this cowardly tiger attack." Quote: The AZA said in a statement that this was the first time a visitor had been killed because of an animal escape at an AZA-accredited zoo. "The San Francisco Zoo is a great zoo, it's an accredited AZA member in good standing, and it has our support during this difficult time," AZA president and chief executive Jim Maddy said.
	Last edited by latent aaaack; 27th December 2007 at 07:25 PM.