Jack Schwartz - Sailor Needle Through Arm

rwgain02 · 19th January 2008, 07:27 PM

Hi Folks,

Much like Randi I enjoy the art of magic and debunking the paranormal. This evening I was doing the old "needle through the arm" magic trick. It reminded me that a fellow named Jack Schwartz did the same thing on TV with a sailor's needle. However he was not a performer but an author of a book called Voluntary Controls where he said people can gain mastery over their bodies.

Anyway, he and others like him were studied by the Menninger Foundation. My point is that I don't think he was ever called a fake. Even more puzzling is the way he punctured his arm was not like a magic trick. The open way he did it left little room for trickery.

Was there ever an official opinion rendered about him by the skeptic community, and if so, could someone provide a link for the findings? I'm certainly not suggesting his actions were real but I am curious.

Since this is my first post I'd like to extend my thanks to Randi and all those who make this forum possible. It is a fantastic resource!

Many Thanks,

Robert

Gravy · 19th January 2008, 07:36 PM

Depending on where the needle was placed, I see no need for trickery (there's also the possibility of painkiller use). There are websites that document people who like to pierce their skin with many hooks. There seems to be little blood when it's done right. The hooks are attached to wires and the people are hoisted into the air and suspended in various positions.

Well, it's Saturday night. Maybe I'll give that a try.

Edit: came across this site, which also gives Geller and others a credulous treatment.

Quote:

Below, Jack Schwartz painlessly- smiling- thrusts a large darning needle through his biceps repeatedly on request for the lab researchers. He was able to stop and start bleeding at will, control his heart rate (stop his pulse), hold lit cigarettes to his arm with no pain, or permanent skin damage. The cigarrette burns ranged from simple red marks to blisters on different occassions. With 72 hours all trace of burns dissappeared. Although he had been doing these kinds of demonstrations for years, the reserachers remarked that "The skin on Jack's arm is as smooth as a baby's." All of his puncture "wounds" closed immediately, and were completely healed and completely invisible between 24 and 48 hours.

Psst! Take a look at his other arm.

Quote:

He further had a ritual of rubbing the needle around on the dirty floor with his shoe before demonstrating.

No mystery there. We all know that's safe as long as it's done within five seconds.

My guess is that this was partly a talent for self-abuse, partly trickery (stopping the pulse, burns that don't scar), and partly the embellishments of credulous witnesses.

AgeGap · 20th January 2008, 02:31 PM

Hi rwgain02, I am a nurse and regularly give intramuscular and subcutaneous injections. These hardly ever bleed afterwards. If you put a sharp needle through the skin at the side of the biceps it won't hurt much. I have seen fakirs put needles through their cheeks. Each to their own.
Also this Needle-through-arm^WP

rwgain02 · 13th February 2008, 01:54 PM

Thanks for the replies. It sounds logical that intermuscular would not be impossible since the higher concentration of nerves are in the sub and regular cutaneous layers.

I've performed the Harry Anderson version but this guy went stright through the bicep. I even remember the flesh on the other side stretching outward in the shape of the point. The camera shot was static (the same) the whole time, no edits. I don't get unnerved easily but this would make any sane person recoil. Jack seemed like an nice fellow though.

Garrette · 14th February 2008, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by rwgain02

Thanks for the replies. It sounds logical that intermuscular would not be impossible since the higher concentration of nerves are in the sub and regular cutaneous layers.

I've performed the Harry Anderson version but this guy went stright through the bicep. I even remember the flesh on the other side stretching outward in the shape of the point. The camera shot was static (the same) the whole time, no edits. I don't get unnerved easily but this would make any sane person recoil. Jack seemed like an nice fellow though.

I haven't seen the performance you're talking of, but I have seen similar. I agree that it's not the standard Needle Through Arm (I also have the Harry Anderson version). If it is an illusion, I have no idea how it's done.

19th January 2008, 07:27 PM	#1
rwgain02 New Blood Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Louisville Posts: 4	Jack Schwartz - Sailor Needle Through Arm Hi Folks, Much like Randi I enjoy the art of magic and debunking the paranormal. This evening I was doing the old "needle through the arm" magic trick. It reminded me that a fellow named Jack Schwartz did the same thing on TV with a sailor's needle. However he was not a performer but an author of a book called Voluntary Controls where he said people can gain mastery over their bodies. Anyway, he and others like him were studied by the Menninger Foundation. My point is that I don't think he was ever called a fake. Even more puzzling is the way he punctured his arm was not like a magic trick. The open way he did it left little room for trickery. Was there ever an official opinion rendered about him by the skeptic community, and if so, could someone provide a link for the findings? I'm certainly not suggesting his actions were real but I am curious. Since this is my first post I'd like to extend my thanks to Randi and all those who make this forum possible. It is a fantastic resource! Many Thanks, Robert

19th January 2008, 07:36 PM	#2
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,062	Depending on where the needle was placed, I see no need for trickery (there's also the possibility of painkiller use). There are websites that document people who like to pierce their skin with many hooks. There seems to be little blood when it's done right. The hooks are attached to wires and the people are hoisted into the air and suspended in various positions. Well, it's Saturday night. Maybe I'll give that a try. Edit: came across this site, which also gives Geller and others a credulous treatment. Quote: Below, Jack Schwartz painlessly- smiling- thrusts a large darning needle through his biceps repeatedly on request for the lab researchers. He was able to stop and start bleeding at will, control his heart rate (stop his pulse), hold lit cigarettes to his arm with no pain, or permanent skin damage. The cigarrette burns ranged from simple red marks to blisters on different occassions. With 72 hours all trace of burns dissappeared. Although he had been doing these kinds of demonstrations for years, the reserachers remarked that "The skin on Jack's arm is as smooth as a baby's." All of his puncture "wounds" closed immediately, and were completely healed and completely invisible between 24 and 48 hours. Psst! Take a look at his other arm. Quote: He further had a ritual of rubbing the needle around on the dirty floor with his shoe before demonstrating. No mystery there. We all know that's safe as long as it's done within five seconds. My guess is that this was partly a talent for self-abuse, partly trickery (stopping the pulse, burns that don't scar), and partly the embellishments of credulous witnesses.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links Last edited by Gravy; 19th January 2008 at 07:50 PM.

20th January 2008, 02:31 PM	#3
AgeGap Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,719	Hi rwgain02, I am a nurse and regularly give intramuscular and subcutaneous injections. These hardly ever bleed afterwards. If you put a sharp needle through the skin at the side of the biceps it won't hurt much. I have seen fakirs put needles through their cheeks. Each to their own. Also this Needle-through-arm^WP
AgeGap Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,719	Last edited by AgeGap; 20th January 2008 at 02:52 PM.

13th February 2008, 01:54 PM	#4
rwgain02 New Blood Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Louisville Posts: 4	Replies Thanks for the replies. It sounds logical that intermuscular would not be impossible since the higher concentration of nerves are in the sub and regular cutaneous layers. I've performed the Harry Anderson version but this guy went stright through the bicep. I even remember the flesh on the other side stretching outward in the shape of the point. The camera shot was static (the same) the whole time, no edits. I don't get unnerved easily but this would make any sane person recoil. Jack seemed like an nice fellow though.

14th February 2008, 06:58 AM	#5
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,927	Originally Posted by rwgain02 Thanks for the replies. It sounds logical that intermuscular would not be impossible since the higher concentration of nerves are in the sub and regular cutaneous layers. I've performed the Harry Anderson version but this guy went stright through the bicep. I even remember the flesh on the other side stretching outward in the shape of the point. The camera shot was static (the same) the whole time, no edits. I don't get unnerved easily but this would make any sane person recoil. Jack seemed like an nice fellow though. I haven't seen the performance you're talking of, but I have seen similar. I agree that it's not the standard Needle Through Arm (I also have the Harry Anderson version). If it is an illusion, I have no idea how it's done.
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,927	__________________ My kids still love me.