Native American myths/traditions support Bigfoot? A critical look.

[RayG]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

I apoligize, but I haven't received my super deluxe, official PGF, Hello Kitty 3D Xray glasses yet. Can someone decipher this for me?

Just click your heels together and mutter, "Manitou, manitou, manitou", it'll come to you.

RayG

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

I apoligize, but I haven't received my super deluxe, official PGF, Hello Kitty 3D Xray glasses yet. Can someone decipher this for me?

No need to apologize. I'm making light of the fact that you have very low requirements to make a connection to bigfoot. I didn't have any idea what #332 was about if you feel like returning the favour.

[manofthesea]

Apparently finding their niche already filled (consumption of raw fish) in Japan, bigfeet had to move on to fishier pastures. Only leaving room for unicorns, the poor dragon-horse-with-a-horn had to do the jobs of two mythical beasts. Thereby establishing the 23-hour workday in Japan.



This creature is known as Kirin. Banzai! Banzai! Banzai!

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

I thought that I identified more with Creekfreak, but that's okay.

I had to leave him out because he doesn't fit my model of modern shamanism. If he came close to that it was by accident not design. Creek was far too verbose and hung up on situational details to pull that off even if he wanted to. Posting a Photoshopped pic of Bigfoot fully excluded him from shamanism. That is entirely unneccesary and is counter to being a visionary. The production of a physical piece of evidence (an altered pic) that can be examined is not something a Bigfoot shaman would ever do. There is no need for it when there is so much else to work with.

Quote:

Neil and Eric are bigwigs in this field.

Jon-Erik Beckjord is the ultimate BF shaman. JREF differs from BFF because we actually can speak freely about him and even type out his full name. Free speech lives here, not on BFF. Beckjord does not create physical hoaxes to promote Bigfoot. He uses what is already around. He is shaman.

Quote:

I got a picture of the great and fantastic Japanese unicorn, Kirin. Cheers!

Ichiban.

[manofthesea]

Originally Posted by kitakaze

No need to apologize. I'm making light of the fact that you have very low requirements to make a connection to bigfoot. I didn't have any idea what #332 was about if you feel like returning the favour.

*Disclaimer* IQ of 180 or above required to view/understand some posts. Bink.

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

Bravo! This coming from a UFO believing, Atlantaean worshippher. I noticed in the Religion forum that you stated Kennewick Man predated Clovis. That is straight out of the 'Atlantis' believers handbook.

Woo hoo!

Hang around amigo, I have some special pictures just for you.

I personally would prefer not to discuss Kennewick Man and other threads here. We've already discussed Kennewick Man with you. If you insist on talking Kennewick Man and other threads then I don't mind pointing out that on Feb. 19th in the Meldrum bigfoot DNA thread here in response to a post I made with detailed links showing that "no conclusion regarding its ethnic ancestry or cultural affiliation based on DNA can be made," you said:

Originally Posted by manofthesea

Thank you Kitakaze. I saw the picture on the website showing what appeared to be, and seemed presented as Kennewick man's DNA profile.
But since you're the only one to address it, the issue is settled, to me.

Interestingly, on March 14th in a BFF thread Hairy Man aka Kathy Strain states in this post:

Quote:

[P.S. DNA on Kenniwick Man came back as being related to the Ainu from Japan and has no European association].

To which you replied on March 15th in this post:

Quote:

That is great news. One mystery involving human/hominids solved. It really shows the difficulty in analyzing 'evidence' of bigfoot in that Ainu people are an identified and living people, whereas bigfoot specimens are nonexistent.
(Hopefully the show with the Zenors was recorded, I'll have a listen today.)

Hey, great news. Mystery solved! What the heck is that? You knew the truth. You were shown explicitly the facts regarding Kennewick Man DNA and then less than a month later at the bigfoot enthusiast board Strain says something you know not to be true and you say "great news, mystery solved."
Yeah, right. Bink.

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

*Disclaimer* IQ of 180 or above required to view/understand some posts. Bink.

Originally Posted by manofthesea

Apparently finding their niche already filled (consumption of raw fish) in Japan, bigfeet had to move on to fishier pastures.

What kind of IQ do you need to remember posts addressed to you only two pages ago?

We call him hibagon or hinagon.

[manofthesea]

Originally Posted by kitakaze

I personally would prefer not to discuss Kennewick Man and other threads here. We've already discussed Kennewick Man with you. If you insist on talking Kennewick Man and other threads then I don't mind pointing out that on Feb. 19th in the Meldrum bigfoot DNA thread here in response to a post I made with detailed links showing that "no conclusion regarding its ethnic ancestry or cultural affiliation based on DNA can be made," you said:



Interestingly, on March 14th in a BFF thread Hairy Man aka Kathy Strain states in this post:



To which you replied on March 15th in this post:

Hey, great news. Mystery solved! What the heck is that? You knew the truth. You were shown explicitly the facts regarding Kennewick Man DNA and then less than a month later at the bigfoot enthusiast board Strain says something you know not to be true and you say "great news, mystery solved."
Yeah, right. Bink.

I don't challenge people that I respect. Especially when the issue is not settled.

Do you have a source of reference where Kennewick Man is definitively proven to be Ainu? I doubt it very much.

Bonk.

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

You left out a couple of people. I noticed Huntster posted here, but was banned also. There was a real bigwig here, bf2006 or something, who left rather quickly when badgered with incessant drivel. And Hairyman herself, doesn't seem to find it conducive to constructive discussion to stay around for more than one or two posts. Sadly, it reflects directly on the type of skepticism displayed here. Rather, it's contrarianism. So, you're left with me.

I would describe their sagas here differently.

Quote:

Not that traditional indian, he can kill you stuff.

JREF is not set up to support or enforce political correctness either. Indian as a term works just fine. It is easier to type out than Native American, but then NA is the easiest of all. Accusations of racism aren't necessarily ignored, but it better be the real thing to begin to matter to anyone here. The real world itself is not so kind to free speech.

Quote:

If you're saddened by the loss of the faithful, maybe you can try your banter with a couple of the ex faithful that lurk here. Like gtcs, blackdog, mangler, ray, drew. You're sitting on a gold mine of (ex) faith right here. I'm sure they'd play along, you know, like ltc.

Again I don't know what you are trying to say. Your posts alternate between articulate and incoherent.

[manofthesea]

Here's JC, in an article where he's rejoicing in establishing telepathic communications with bigfoot.

Actually it describes his UFO sighting that he reported to the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena. Sadly, NASA refused to investigate the matter, even after he became president.



Did he mention anything about a furry pilot with glowing eyes? zzzzzt

[manofthesea]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

JREF is not set up to support or enforce political correctness either. Indian as a term works just fine. It is easier to type out than Native American, but then NA is the easiest of all. Accusations of racism aren't necessarily ignored, but it better be the real thing to begin to matter to anyone here. The real world itself is not so kind to free speech.


.

You express a subtle form of indignation to the term 'indian' and then yet use inflammatory stereotypes in your own posts, such as I have bigfoot on the brain because of my indian and hawaiian roots.

You may profess political correctness to others if you wish. But the recognized term is still indian. Such as Smithsonian's definitive "Handbook of North American Indian". No use of the term native.

Need I mention the name "Indian Bob"?

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

I don't challenge people that I respect. Especially when the issue is not settled.

Do you have a source of reference where Kennewick Man is definitively proven to be Ainu? I doubt it very much.

Bonk.

Dude, what? Seriously, huuuh??? Do I have a source of reference where Kennewick Man is definitively proven to be Ainu? What on Earth are you even talking about? Do you even comprehend what is going on? Far from the first time I sincerely wonder about your state of perception. Hello:

Quote:

Thus, no conclusion regarding its ethnic ancestry or cultural affiliation based on DNA can be made.

Strain said the DNA was Ainu. I made no such statement. You knew it wasn't. You've seen the material. Snap out of it.

Really, I don't understand how someone can get it so backwards. It's right in front of you.

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

I don't challenge people that I respect.

BTW, unrelated to MOTS but I can't help but find statements like this extremely noteworthy, especially when we have people such as Crowlogic attempting to imply that we won't disagree with eachother here.

[manofthesea]

Originally Posted by kitakaze

Dude, what? Seriously, huuuh??? Do I have a source of reference where Kennewick Man is definitively proven to be Ainu? What on Earth are you even talking about? Do you even comprehend what is going on? Far from the first time I sincerely wonder about your state of perception. Hello:



Strain said the DNA was Ainu. I made no such statement. You knew it wasn't. You've seen the material. Snap out of it.

Really, I don't understand how someone can get it so backwards. It's right in front of you.

You were the one who associated Kennewick Man to the Ainu in Japan. Not me. I never heard of them. I just came across the Kennewick Man's website and it stated the original scientist who observed the skull stated that it resembled a neanderthal. And that further study was halted. I then stated that his DNA profile was posted at NPS and you said it was not. You then proclaimed Kennewick Man was Ainu.

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

You express a subtle form of indignation to the term 'indian' and then yet use inflammatory stereotypes in your own posts, such as I have bigfoot on the brain because of my indian and hawaiian roots.

WP can clarify his own statements again for you but it seems a good time to add - I don't think you have bigfoot on the brain because you're native. I think hardly any natives ever had bigfoot on the brain. I don't think they had bigfoot. That's the point of this thread. Tales of various supernatural beings? Yes. Tales of boogeymen just like everyone else all over the world? Yes. Traditions and myths regarding a species of giant 8ft hairy bipedal animals living in proximity to them? Not that I've seen. I'm seeing lots of tribes living in areas where bigfoot enthusiasts tell us bigfoot exists with lots of tales about bears and wolves and eagles and salmon but wait... no bigfoots.

In your case, I think you have bigfoot on the brain because you're a bigfoot enthusiast, nothing more. No race cards necessary.

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

You then proclaimed Kennewick Man was Ainu.

MOTS, I challenge you to right this instant put your fingers on the keyboard and quote and link where I then proclaimed Kennewick Man was Ainu. If you can not do this, I expect you will acknowledge that I made no such statement and that you were mistaken.

[manofthesea]

Originally Posted by kitakaze

In your case, I think you have bigfoot on the brain because you're a bigfoot enthusiast, nothing more.
.

I was up there with Neil and Beckjord a minute ago. At least say that I'm a Fortean. Look at all of the pictures of wonderful, magical beasts that I presented. Can you prove that Alexander didn't ride a unicorn around the (known) world. He even tamed a griffon and rode that. Imagine Harry Potter meeting up with him while riding his broom. Splat.

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

I was up there with Neil and Beckjord a minute ago. At least say that I'm a Fortean. Look at all of the pictures of wonderful, magical beasts that I presented. Can you prove that Alexander didn't ride a unicorn around the (known) world. He even tamed a griffon and rode that. Imagine Harry Potter meeting up with him while riding his broom. Splat.

OK, that was funny.

Don't worry, MOTS. You can still roll with Cedrip and The Burg. WP is the one with the shaman reference. I just said none of you can remain civil. You're all bigfoot enthusiasts to me but I do have to allow that Cedrip has the glory and The Burg is not for want of trying. Don't let that bother you. You can be a bigfoot nut too. Just work that chased angle and keep at it.

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

You express a subtle form of indignation to the term 'indian' and then yet use inflammatory stereotypes in your own posts, such as I have bigfoot on the brain because of my indian and hawaiian roots.

I don't have a problem with "Indian" as a term. Even still, it wouldn't have universal use in the BF threads because we get into enough ethnogeographic detail that "Which ones?" would be the next question.

I don't think your roots put Bigfoot on your brain so much as it does to compel you to keep it on the brain. Your Alaskan heritage gives you easier access to some primary information and you do share that (from what I can see). Not everyone can ask their own grandmother about specific Alaskan tribal Bigfoot sightings or legends. You focus on PNW NA (emphasis on Alaska) things that could be interpreted as Bigfoot. There are tribes in the NE, but they are not your focus. There's nothing wrong or unusual about any of that (Bigfoot aside). While looking for references that could be interpreted as Bigfoot, you must be learning some new things about Alaskan tribes that are unrelated to your search for BF stuff. You are even being presented with factual info about PNW Indians and their legends in this thread. At least some of that stuff must be new to you as it is often brought out to counter your own claims.

I think you may be resistant (the contrarian troll) to accepting this information when it comes from Bigfoot skeptics, even when the references are shoved in your face (don't do links).

Quote:

You may profess political correctness to others if you wish. But the recognized term is still indian. Such as Smithsonian's definitive "Handbook of North American Indian". No use of the term native.

Indian is no longer fully acceptable in true public discourse. You know damn well that Indian is now regarded as an improper term in many public arenas. There are some exceptions, with context and audience being key factors. It's not that people won't know what it means - it's about the conventions of modern political correctness and how that seeps into civilian discourse and social protocol. That Smithsonian book title does not set the standard, and you know that too. Always quick to be the contrarian troll.

Good grief. If I continually disagree with you... does that make me a contrarian troll?

[William Parcher]

Almost forgot...

Originally Posted by MOTS

and hawaiian roots.

You asked what Hawaiian had to do with anything after I mentioned it. I don't see how it does relate to your Bigfoot interest. I only mentioned it because you said it was half of your ancestry. I was trying to anticipate your contrary nature and was met with it anyway.

If I only said you are Indian, you'd follow with mention of my bad memory because you told us you were half Hawaiian. If I mention both ancestries (as I did), you ask what Hawaiian has to do with your BF interest (which you did, but I didn't anticipate that). In retrospect, I should have been far more explicit initially, mostly because you are always looking for a scrap.

Our online personalities clash; and that may be true even under the best situations here. I know that would change... if only I would give you an inch with regards to Bigfoot.

[William Parcher]

MOTS, I have an association and pattern seeking personality (mentality). It is often fruitless (nonproductive) or simply wrong. I still go at it anyway.

Since March 24th, you have made 54 posts on JREF. Of those, 52 posts are in a thread with Native Americans as a topic (this thread). There are other BF threads, but it seems that you have parked yourself in this one. I like to think you have a special interest in Native American BF topics because you are NA (partly). You give me reasons to think that, even besides your singular focus on this particular thread.

But given your personality, I'm not sure you would agree with me even if I am correct.

[Correa Neto]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

Bravo! This coming from a UFO believing, Atlantaean worshippher. I noticed in the Religion forum that you stated Kennewick Man predated Clovis. That is straight out of the 'Atlantis' believers handbook.

Woo hoo!

Hang around amigo, I have some special pictures just for you.

Wow...

I just can't believe someone could, from what I ever wrote here at this forum, conclude I am an "UFO believing, Atlantaean worshippher".

The only option I'm left to interpretate that post of yours is that its some sort of puny ah hom. You know, ad homs are useless; they can't actually help your case, at least not here (you do know where you are don't you?).

Aniway, you claimed that I am an "UFO believing, Atlantaean worshippher". remember where you are? Here we require evidence, and since it was a claim about me, I demand evidence, reliable evidence. Your claim, your burden of proof.

Prove it or remove the claim.

Regarding the Kennewick man, last time I checked, he was taken as being from a pre-Clovis population. I could posts links, but since you "don't do links", its would be a waste of my time.

You may also want to expose the reasons why you think I said Kennewick man is older than Clovis people based on some "Atlantis believers handbook".

If you have nothing usefull to discuss, if this sort of material is all you can produce, I will once again ignore you posts, since they are not worthy of my spending time.

[Correa Neto]

K., one can suppose Kennewick man may indeed be somehow linked to some wildmen tales. Suppose a certain tribe happened to wage war against them. Suppose this tribe had an ethinical affiliation different from Kennewick man's people. Remember the de-humanization tactics which make the enemy less than human?

Not completely off-topic, I'm afraid. Not much to back this speculation, I'm afraid also. I think its more plausible than a giant ape, but its just speculation.

Oh, check this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7329505.stm
14Ky (that means thousands of years, its not some lubricant, you pervs) old pre-Clovis human poop. DNA good enough to trace origin to Siberia and East Asia. Now, where's the DNA evidence for bigfoot? Why don't we have it? OK, OK, that was OT, sorry, carry on.

[manofthesea]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

I don't have a problem with "Indian" as a term. Even still, it wouldn't have universal use in the BF threads because we get into enough ethnogeographic detail that "Which ones?" would be the next question.


Indian is no longer fully acceptable in true public discourse. You know damn well that Indian is now regarded as an improper term in many public arenas. There are some exceptions, with context and audience being key factors. It's not that people won't know what it means - it's about the conventions of modern political correctness and how that seeps into civilian discourse and social protocol. That Smithsonian book title does not set the standard, and you know that too. Always quick to be the contrarian troll.


?

Oh. I didn't know. Really. I'm in Hawaii, Hawaiian is still acceptable. My mom just shakes her head when asked. I'm okay with Indian. Indian Pride.

I'll use native instead. I really dislike, not bitterly, NA. Native is cool, I hope. Noble savage is cool.
Tonto is not cool. Redskin is funny, but cool. Chief is okay. I don't like NA. It could stand for any number of uncool backronyms, or whatever.

[manofthesea]

Originally Posted by Correa Neto

Wow...

I just can't believe someone could, from what I ever wrote here at this forum, conclude I am an "UFO believing, Atlantaean worshippher".

The only option I'm left to interpretate that post of yours is that its some sort of puny ah hom. You know, ad homs are useless; they can't actually help your case, at least not here (you do know where you are don't you?).

Aniway, you claimed that I am an "UFO believing, Atlantaean worshippher". remember where you are? Here we require evidence, and since it was a claim about me, I demand evidence, reliable evidence. Your claim, your burden of proof.

Prove it or remove the claim.

Regarding the Kennewick man, last time I checked, he was taken as being from a pre-Clovis population. I could posts links, but since you "don't do links", its would be a waste of my time.

You may also want to expose the reasons why you think I said Kennewick man is older than Clovis people based on some "Atlantis believers handbook".

If you have nothing usefull to discuss, if this sort of material is all you can produce, I will once again ignore you posts, since they are not worthy of my spending time.

You stated in the Religion forum, Mormons and Native American DNA, that Kennewick Man predated Clovis culture. Clovis is older that 12,000 years.

The only time I have ever heard mention, on the web or on TV, of KM predating Clovis is on History Channel special on Atlantis. So I'll leave the remark.

[manofthesea]

Originally Posted by Correa Neto

Prove it or remove the claim.

Regarding the Kennewick man, last time I checked, he was taken as being from a pre-Clovis population. I could posts links, but since you "don't do links", its would be a waste of my time.

.

Noted. Real woos never back their wild claims.

[manofthesea]

Anyway, I was gonna post the picture of Alexander riding the griffon, just to show proof. But it's telling me that the file is too big, 200k. I'll try later.

Just to show that the British Isles held it down, I've got a couple of pictures of Lugh of the Long Hand along with the Fomorians.

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

It seems pretty obvious to me that MOTS is trying to be funny by doing thos posts. I suggest that he start smashing fruit while posting and maybe a Metallica cover band will "pay homage" to his work.

[Correa Neto]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

You stated in the Religion forum, Mormons and Native American DNA, that Kennewick Man predated Clovis culture. Clovis is older that 12,000 years.

Please post evidence that the people to whom he belong are not seen as probably being anterior to Clovis people. Show it and I will gladly say I am wrong regarding this issue.

Now, please back your claim that I am an "UFO believing, Atlantaean worshippher". If all you have is this:

Originally Posted by manofthesea

The only time I have ever heard mention, on the web or on TV, of KM predating Clovis is on History Channel special on Atlantis. So I'll leave the remark.

You need to remove your claim or back it properly. Or you don't have what it takes to do so?

If you keep this trend of yours (shared by many a footer) - make a claim and once the claim and the evidence are questioned and their flaws are shown start relying on ad homs, lies and evasion/obfuscation attempts, I will once again ignore you posts, since they are not worthy of spending time.

Remember, nothing that you wrote in this interchange of ours can hide the weaknesses of your claims.

[manofthesea]

Originally Posted by Correa Neto

Please post evidence that the people to whom he belong are not seen as probably being anterior to Clovis people. Show it and I will gladly say I am wrong regarding this issue.

Now, please back your claim that I am an "UFO believing, Atlantaean worshippher". If all you have is this:



You need to remove your claim or back it properly. Or you don't have what it takes to do so?


.

You're the one making the wild claim, but I'm just here to amuse myself.
Kennewick Man is around 9,500 years old, Clovis culture is measured at least 12,500 years. His ancestry is uncertain, and to attach him to any culture, especially an older one, is woo.

Like I said, the only media that has associated Kennewick Man with a pre Clovis culture has been a group studying Atlantis. That was on History Channel. Guilt by association.

I'll let the claim stand. But you still won't show what makes you think Kennewick Man predates Clovis. Granted, there may be new material that suggests an earlier coastal route. But those people are still one of the existing haplogroups in the Americas.

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

You're the one making the wild claim, but I'm just here to amuse myself.

Troll spill in aisle 7.

[manofthesea]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Troll spill in aisle 7.

What I meant was that I only have general knowledge of human genetics and migration. And I was the one who brought up KM in a few threads.

National Geographic .com has a good project going, The Genographic Project. It shows the latest in genetic and linguistic understanding in a migration map format. Sweet.

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

What I meant was that...

It was about this...

Quote:

...I'm just here to amuse myself.

Do you pass the time here by poking sticks at Bigfoot skeptics? Why are you no longer active on Bigfoot believer forums (BFF)? Are you bored with mundane Bigfooters who don't even make the effort to connect Alexander with Almasty?

I used to think that trolls mostly made their camps under lonely bridges. I might need to adjust their habitat to include volcanic islands in the Pacific.

Don't ever change, MOTS.

[manofthesea]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

It was about this...



Do you pass the time here by poking sticks at Bigfoot skeptics? Why are you no longer active on Bigfoot believer forums (BFF)? Are you bored with mundane Bigfooters who don't even make the effort to connect Alexander with Almasty?

I used to think that trolls mostly made their camps under lonely bridges. I might need to adjust their habitat to include volcanic islands in the Pacific.

Don't ever change, MOTS.

I do post there. But that is more an arena for active investigation. I post my ideas there. If you look in "Expedition Planning", you'll see my itinerary for my upcoming bigfoot search in the Shenandoah area.

I don't think anything I've posted here was trolling. Every topic I've presented and argued was a subject I am particularly interested. I called CN on the KM issue because I am the one who presented KM for discussion in various threads, but never had that particular claim presented. Hence the desire to have the claim verified. Which won't happen.

[manofthesea]

The collage of "Historical Evidences of Great Simian-Sapien Relations" (not the real name) came from Time Life's Enchanted World series. Magical Beasts volume.

Anyway, one of the other books that I ordered was "American Folktales", a reference type telling of Paul Bunyan, Daniel Boone, and other legends. I recently saw mention of Boone being associated with some type of encounter, so I can hardly wait to read about that. Is anyone familiar with Boone's tale?

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

I don't think anything I've posted here was trolling. Every topic I've presented and argued was a subject I am particularly interested. I called CN on the KM issue because I am the one who presented KM for discussion in various threads, but never had that particular claim presented. Hence the desire to have the claim verified. Which won't happen.

I understand. Something similar happened to me. I had to deal with a rising nutmeg titmouse bunkbed which was forward backwards within BL428 Jupiter ravine. It interests me particularly me interests it. But that was Toledo and a wombatted my foot. We might be bonding, MOTS. K1ffA!

[manofthesea]

C'mon, those pictures were fun. Monkey men and emperors. The dragon-horse-with-a-horn is as related as habingon.

I brought up Roger's book in the PGF thread and received no response. I even asked if Roger's faithful scout, Bob had published anything.

Until I receive the previously stated books, I have no other "new" information. Sorry.

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

C'mon, those pictures were fun. Monkey men and emperors. The dragon-horse-with-a-horn is as related as habingon.

Kirin, the deer/dragon giraffe associate is as related to bigfoot as hibagon, the Japanese bigfoot?

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by manofthesea

Noted. Real woos never back their wild claims.

Originally Posted by manofthesea

You then proclaimed Kennewick Man was Ainu.

Originally Posted by kitakaze

MOTS, I challenge you to right this instant put your fingers on the keyboard and quote and link where I then proclaimed Kennewick Man was Ainu. If you can not do this, I expect you will acknowledge that I made no such statement and that you were mistaken.

Bump.

[RayG]

Why do the bigfoot legends of old, when recounted more recently, lose their supernatural aspects?

I refer specifically to two written articles about boqs. The stories are the same, but in the newer versions there are no supernatural references, in the older ones there are.

The newer article is found in: Notes on the Role of Folklore in Hominology, by John Colarusso, and he uses the 1980 article Bella Coola Texts, British Columbia Provincial Museum, Heritage Record, No.10, by Phillip Davis and Ross Saunders, as his source.

The older one is found in John Green's Sasquatch: The Apes Among Us, (pages 21-24), from an article by T.F. McIlwraith, titled Certain Beliefs of the Bella Coola Indians Concerning Animals, published in Archaeological Report of 1924-25.*

Colarusso reports that in one story, a man named Almtsi tries to shoot a boq, "but his gun fails to fire."

In the version that Green reports, the gun fails to fire because the boqs "supernatural power was so great, that the hunter's musket burst in his hands." (page 24)

In the other Colarusso story, Qaaklis (Qaktlis?) and his family escape from the boqs by dragging their canoe along as "the channel they have taken seems to be running shallow."

In Green's version Qaktlis notices "the mountains were higher than usual; the boqs had, by their supernatural power, raised the whole area so that the water had been almost entirely drained away." (page 23)

Colarusso theorizes that the gun misfires because it somehow got wet, while the canoe dragged on the bottom because of the ensuing panic and disorientation, and then states that, "the significance of both happenings is not stated." That very well may be in the modernized version, but that's not the case for the McIlwraith versions, published more than 50 years earlier. In those earlier versions it is clearly the supernatural powers of these creatures that is the cause.

Obviously the more recent accounts have been cleaned up to remove any supernatural blame, and thereby make the bigfoot legend more believable.

* The same supernatural accounts can be found here, though they are authored by Dr. Wayne Suttles.

RayG