The Defends Rests In the Wesley Snipes Case...

dudalb · 29th January 2008, 02:23 PM

Now he is claiming he was misled by the Income Tax Protestors,Something tells me the Jury will not be buying that.
Maybe Snipes getting some jail time will sober up some of these "You Don't have to Pay Income Taxes" kooks.
If you don't like the Income Tax and want to repeal it,fine. Just don't tell me you don't have to pay it.

Gazpacho · 29th January 2008, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Now he is claiming he was misled by the Income Tax Protestors,Something tells me the Jury will not be buying that.

Misled him into writing bad checks and ignoring repeated warnings from the IRS that he was violating the law... right.

I have no great desire to see Snipes go to prison, even for a week, but the facts aren't on his side and the tax protesters will jump at any chance to declare victory.

rjh01 · 29th January 2008, 11:48 PM

You are legally obliged to pay tax. Failure to pay is a crime. Since he did not pay tax it was like robbing the government of tens of millions of dollars. That deserves serious jail time. The fact that he did it openly is not relevant. ddddd
Here is a link about him Jury to Start Deliberations in Wesley Snipes Tax Case

Edit The above does not include people who have no or very low income.

luchog · 31st January 2008, 12:26 AM

That's the trouble with too many modern "civil disobedience" movements -- even when they're right, they're still often unrealistic, even stupid, in their goals and expectations. They just don't take the time to think about the fact that civil disobedience often means that they're just as likely to become martyrs as they are triumphant figures. They don't learn from history that a great many of those involved in even the most noble civil disobedience actions ended up jailed, or worse; let alone the number of idiots who didn't really have a clue what they were doing or why.

Suddenly · 31st January 2008, 08:25 AM

An important thing to remember is that if the jury believes that Snipes really believed in his mind that he didn't have to pay income tax, Snipes should be acquitted.

When dealing with a criminal charge of failure to pay income tax, the government has the somewhat unique burden to show that the defendant actually knew that he was breaking the law. Quite often tax protestors are acquitted on this basis, more or less that they are dumb enough to believe these crackpot theories.

This does not make them right, or even save them from civil liability for back taxes, interest, and penalties. It just keeps them out of jail and gives the TP movement ammo when trying to scam fresh fish.

Lisa Simpson · 1st February 2008, 01:38 PM

ACQUITTED!! Mostly, anyway.

http://www.tmz.com/2008/02/01/always...-most-charges/

dudalb · 1st February 2008, 02:08 PM

Split verdict.
It's no victory for Snipes.
I guess the jury felt he honestly felt he did not need to pay his taxes and/or he was misled,but did not want him to get away scott free.

Suddenly · 1st February 2008, 02:12 PM

Good chance he was unfairly convicted, but as injustices go on a scale of one to ten this is maybe 1.000001.

Ranb · 1st February 2008, 02:17 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/01/....ap/index.html

“A jury in Florida has acquitted actor Wesley Snipes of federal tax-fraud and conspiracy charges, but convicted him of failing to file tax returns. Snipes could now be sentenced to as much as three years in prison.”

Knowing that filing an income tax return is voluntary, why is he facing prison time? CNN is missing something here. Shouldn’t he be facing time for failing to pay taxes instead?

Ranb

shadron · 1st February 2008, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Ranb

Knowing that filing an income tax return is voluntary...

Uhhhhh....... How do you figure that?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26...3----000-.html

Ranb · 1st February 2008, 03:05 PM

I remember hearing (years ago), that filing a return was voluntary, but paying the tax was not. I guess I am out of date. I have never been bothered in the past for failing to file a return. I had paid the tax, just never got a refund (a few dollars) for those years.

Ranb

Suddenly · 1st February 2008, 03:51 PM

Right. If they owe you money, they aren't going to come after you to file a return and get it....

Bob Klase · 1st February 2008, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Suddenly

Good chance he was unfairly convicted, but as injustices go on a scale of one to ten this is maybe 1.000001.

Better chance he was unfairly acquitted. I'd make that a .95 based on what I know. It's likely the jury learned more than I know, but being a celebrity can also tip things in your favor.

patchbunny · 2nd February 2008, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Ranb

I remember hearing (years ago), that filing a return was voluntary, but paying the tax was not. I guess I am out of date. I have never been bothered in the past for failing to file a return. I had paid the tax, just never got a refund (a few dollars) for those years.

Ranb

'Voluntary" means that it is up to you to determine your income tax and file it, rather than the government.

See here :

"The Law: The word "voluntary," as used in Flora and in IRS publications, refers to our system of allowing taxpayers to determine the correct amount of tax and complete the appropriate returns, rather than have the government determine tax for them. The requirement to file an income tax return is not voluntary and is clearly set forth in Internal Revenue Code §§ 6011(a) , 6012(a) , et seq., and 6072(a). See also Treas. Reg. § 1.6011-1(a)."

XBoxWarrior · 2nd February 2008, 01:14 PM

Well, I see prison in my future.........dammit.

Oh well, I guess I got to use the "freeways".

If I get the intertubes in prison, can I ask ya'll for some "commissary" change?

If not for the ex-wife, and the child-support, I coulda paid George W. Bush to kill the damn Iraqi's.......

I need another job.

PogoPedant · 4th February 2008, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Suddenly

Right. If they owe you money, they aren't going to come after you to file a return and get it....

True story from Norway. A number of unfortunate coincidences (including me slowly loosing my ability to manage myself) led to me forgetting to hand in my tax-return equivalent* and was fined some small percentage (permillage?) of my annual income. When my taxes were finally calculated, the government ended up paying me back my fine three times over.

* and considering my tax-status and the way tax-returns are done in this lovely nation, that's ALL on my head, I'm afraid.

Vic Vega · 5th February 2008, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Gazpacho

I have no great desire to see Snipes go to prison, even for a week, but the facts aren't on his side and the tax protesters will jump at any chance to declare victory.

I pay my taxes. I do have a great desire to see anyone who doesn't go to jail. Especially when it's a multi-millionaire.

When Wesley Snipes doesn't pay taxes, he is stealing from me and my family.

29th January 2008, 02:23 PM	#1
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,848	The Defends Rests In the Wesley Snipes Case... Now he is claiming he was misled by the Income Tax Protestors,Something tells me the Jury will not be buying that. Maybe Snipes getting some jail time will sober up some of these "You Don't have to Pay Income Taxes" kooks. If you don't like the Income Tax and want to repeal it,fine. Just don't tell me you don't have to pay it.

29th January 2008, 11:04 PM	#2
Gazpacho Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Valley Lodge, USA Posts: 2,136	Originally Posted by dudalb Now he is claiming he was misled by the Income Tax Protestors,Something tells me the Jury will not be buying that. Misled him into writing bad checks and ignoring repeated warnings from the IRS that he was violating the law... right. I have no great desire to see Snipes go to prison, even for a week, but the facts aren't on his side and the tax protesters will jump at any chance to declare victory.
	Last edited by Gazpacho; 29th January 2008 at 11:07 PM.

29th January 2008, 11:48 PM	#3
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 17,198	You are legally obliged to pay tax. Failure to pay is a crime. Since he did not pay tax it was like robbing the government of tens of millions of dollars. That deserves serious jail time. The fact that he did it openly is not relevant. ddddd Here is a link about him Jury to Start Deliberations in Wesley Snipes Tax Case Edit The above does not include people who have no or very low income.
	__________________ dddffffpppqqqq Want to use your computer for something that will make society better? See this thread for details Folding@home Last edited by rjh01; 29th January 2008 at 11:59 PM.

31st January 2008, 12:26 AM	#4
luchog Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Emerald City Posts: 7,958	That's the trouble with too many modern "civil disobedience" movements -- even when they're right, they're still often unrealistic, even stupid, in their goals and expectations. They just don't take the time to think about the fact that civil disobedience often means that they're just as likely to become martyrs as they are triumphant figures. They don't learn from history that a great many of those involved in even the most noble civil disobedience actions ended up jailed, or worse; let alone the number of idiots who didn't really have a clue what they were doing or why.
	__________________ "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams "The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf "Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon

31st January 2008, 08:25 AM	#5
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montani Semper Liberi Posts: 2,645	An important thing to remember is that if the jury believes that Snipes really believed in his mind that he didn't have to pay income tax, Snipes should be acquitted. When dealing with a criminal charge of failure to pay income tax, the government has the somewhat unique burden to show that the defendant actually knew that he was breaking the law. Quite often tax protestors are acquitted on this basis, more or less that they are dumb enough to believe these crackpot theories. This does not make them right, or even save them from civil liability for back taxes, interest, and penalties. It just keeps them out of jail and gives the TP movement ammo when trying to scam fresh fish.
	__________________ Visit ElbowJobertski.com for all your fine comic literature needs, that is assuming all you want is on that site. It probably isn't, but so it goes.

1st February 2008, 01:38 PM	#6
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 20,066	ACQUITTED!! Mostly, anyway. http://www.tmz.com/2008/02/01/always...-most-charges/
	__________________ That's what the Internet does -- you get a free bonus prize of Stupid Lies with every box of Delicious Facts. - cracked.com Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers

1st February 2008, 02:08 PM	#7
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,848	Split verdict. It's no victory for Snipes. I guess the jury felt he honestly felt he did not need to pay his taxes and/or he was misled,but did not want him to get away scott free.

1st February 2008, 02:12 PM	#8
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montani Semper Liberi Posts: 2,645	Good chance he was unfairly convicted, but as injustices go on a scale of one to ten this is maybe 1.000001.
	__________________ Visit ElbowJobertski.com for all your fine comic literature needs, that is assuming all you want is on that site. It probably isn't, but so it goes. Last edited by Suddenly; 1st February 2008 at 02:13 PM.

1st February 2008, 02:17 PM	#9
Ranb Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA USA Posts: 4,115	http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/01/....ap/index.html “A jury in Florida has acquitted actor Wesley Snipes of federal tax-fraud and conspiracy charges, but convicted him of failing to file tax returns. Snipes could now be sentenced to as much as three years in prison.” Knowing that filing an income tax return is voluntary, why is he facing prison time? CNN is missing something here. Shouldn’t he be facing time for failing to pay taxes instead? Ranb

1st February 2008, 02:25 PM	#10
shadron Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,719	Originally Posted by Ranb Knowing that filing an income tax return is voluntary... Uhhhhh....... How do you figure that? http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26...3----000-.html

1st February 2008, 03:05 PM	#11
Ranb Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA USA Posts: 4,115	I remember hearing (years ago), that filing a return was voluntary, but paying the tax was not. I guess I am out of date. I have never been bothered in the past for failing to file a return. I had paid the tax, just never got a refund (a few dollars) for those years. Ranb

1st February 2008, 03:51 PM	#12
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montani Semper Liberi Posts: 2,645	Right. If they owe you money, they aren't going to come after you to file a return and get it....
	__________________ Visit ElbowJobertski.com for all your fine comic literature needs, that is assuming all you want is on that site. It probably isn't, but so it goes.

1st February 2008, 06:16 PM	#13
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,833	Originally Posted by Suddenly Good chance he was unfairly convicted, but as injustices go on a scale of one to ten this is maybe 1.000001. Better chance he was unfairly acquitted. I'd make that a .95 based on what I know. It's likely the jury learned more than I know, but being a celebrity can also tip things in your favor.

2nd February 2008, 09:16 AM	#14
patchbunny Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2004 Location: Right about... here. Posts: 1,553	Originally Posted by Ranb I remember hearing (years ago), that filing a return was voluntary, but paying the tax was not. I guess I am out of date. I have never been bothered in the past for failing to file a return. I had paid the tax, just never got a refund (a few dollars) for those years. Ranb 'Voluntary" means that it is up to you to determine your income tax and file it, rather than the government. See here : "The Law: The word "voluntary," as used in Flora and in IRS publications, refers to our system of allowing taxpayers to determine the correct amount of tax and complete the appropriate returns, rather than have the government determine tax for them. The requirement to file an income tax return is not voluntary and is clearly set forth in Internal Revenue Code §§ 6011(a) , 6012(a) , et seq., and 6072(a). See also Treas. Reg. § 1.6011-1(a)."
	__________________ "So, they laugh at my boner, will they? I'll show them! I'll show them how many boners the Joker can make!" -- The Joker, Batman #66

2nd February 2008, 01:14 PM	#15
XBoxWarrior Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Down in the Treme... Posts: 1,232	Well, I see prison in my future.........dammit. Oh well, I guess I got to use the "freeways". If I get the intertubes in prison, can I ask ya'll for some "commissary" change? If not for the ex-wife, and the child-support, I coulda paid George W. Bush to kill the damn Iraqi's....... I need another job.

4th February 2008, 08:02 AM	#16
PogoPedant Muse Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 764	Originally Posted by Suddenly Right. If they owe you money, they aren't going to come after you to file a return and get it.... True story from Norway. A number of unfortunate coincidences (including me slowly loosing my ability to manage myself) led to me forgetting to hand in my tax-return equivalent* and was fined some small percentage (permillage?) of my annual income. When my taxes were finally calculated, the government ended up paying me back my fine three times over. * and considering my tax-status and the way tax-returns are done in this lovely nation, that's ALL on my head, I'm afraid.
PogoPedant Muse Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 764

5th February 2008, 01:36 PM	#17
Vic Vega Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Cradle of Liberty Posts: 1,075	Originally Posted by Gazpacho I have no great desire to see Snipes go to prison, even for a week, but the facts aren't on his side and the tax protesters will jump at any chance to declare victory. I pay my taxes. I do have a great desire to see anyone who doesn't go to jail. Especially when it's a multi-millionaire. When Wesley Snipes doesn't pay taxes, he is stealing from me and my family.