Hamas Protests Egypt Bid to Seal Border

Abdul Alhazred · 1st February 2008, 01:41 PM

Hamas Protests Egypt Bid to Seal Border

Quote:

RAFAH, Gaza Strip (AP) - Hundreds of Hamas supporters protested on the breached Gaza-Egypt border Friday to demand it remain open, while Egyptian troops poured cement and laid down metal spikes in a new attempt to halt the influx of Gazans.

Gaza's Hamas rulers want a role in running the border with Egypt, a demand rejected this week by Egypt and Hamas' rival, moderate Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

It remains unclear whether Hamas will use force to keep the border open.

...

OK. Not unanticipated.

But there is one detail of the previous story I had not known.

Quote:

...

The border breach came several days after Israel had imposed a complete blockade on Gaza, with Egyptian backing, in response to a rocket barrage from Gaza on Israeli border towns.

...

Emphasis added. Egyptian backing.

Am I the only one who missed that important detail, or was it seriously underreported?

The Fool · 1st February 2008, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Abdul Alhazred

Hamas Protests Egypt Bid to Seal Border

OK. Not unanticipated.

But there is one detail of the previous story I had not known.

Emphasis added. Egyptian backing.

Am I the only one who missed that important detail, or was it seriously underreported?

It is not seriously under-reported. I don't think you are the only person that didn't know....maybe just one of a select few.

mrbaracuda · 1st February 2008, 10:07 PM

I don't really get it. It's new for you that Egypt backed / backs the blockade or that Egypt helped tearing down parts of the wall? Latter would be new, as for the first: No one seems to like Palestinians outside of their areas.

FireGarden · 2nd February 2008, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Abdul Alhazred

Am I the only one who missed that important detail, or was it seriously underreported?

That Gaza has a border with Egypt is well known. And I read a few stories about people finding it difficult to get in and out of Gaza via Rafah.

But, yes, I think Egypt's co-operation was under-reported.

From the AP, 3 hrs ago:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j..._f_OQD8UI6D8O0

Quote:

Zahar said Hamas would not prevent a closure of the border. However, he said in exchange Egypt agreed to allow thousands of Palestinians currently stuck in Egypt to travel to third countries and would coordinate with Hamas on border issues.

I guess we'll find out after Sunday, which is the day Egypt has said the border will be closed.

webfusion · 2nd February 2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

...And I read a few stories about people finding it difficult to get in and out of Gaza via Rafah.

Like this article? --

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/03/wo...03mideast.html

FireGarden · 2nd February 2008, 09:06 AM

So Egypt's co-operation wasn't complete. Are you saying that they didn't co-operate at all?

Like this:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...9D7E73DF8C.htm

the day before the wall came down.

Abdul Alhazred · 2nd February 2008, 09:50 AM

It's not that the Egyptian government does not "like" the Gazans. Nor that they acquiesce in stuff Israel does.

It's the cooperation.

I'm usually better informed about what goes on over there.

Thanks to all.

webfusion · 2nd February 2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

I'm usually better informed about what goes on over there.

I have a feeling that the HAMAS is seriously thinking of making a move to take over el-Arish.

If they can extend their control beyond the Rafah line-in-the-sand, and actually go as far as ElArish, then they would achieve two major objectives:
A port and an airfield.

The question is, are they capable of such a military maneuver?
There is very little information coming out of Sinai. Egyptian leaders are very, very nervous, and don't wish to inflame their own homegrown Muslim Brotherhood.

Steve H · 2nd February 2008, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

I have a feeling that the HAMAS is seriously thinking of making a move to take over el-Arish.

If they can extend their control beyond the Rafah line-in-the-sand, and actually go as far as ElArish, then they would achieve two major objectives:
A port and an airfield.

The question is, are they capable of such a military maneuver?
There is very little information coming out of Sinai. Egyptian leaders are very, very nervous, and don't wish to inflame their own homegrown Muslim Brotherhood.

Interesting speculation but I don't think Hamas would risk pushing Egypt any further than they already have. While the Egyptians were shy about robustly confronting the Palestinians that streamed into Egypt after the Rafah barrier was knocked down, a move on el-Arish would be a different story. Militarily you'd have Egypt's modern armed forces pitted against irregulars with no armor or air power to call their own. While I agree that Egypt is very nervous about the Muslim Brotherhood I don't feel they're so nervous that they'd cede control of one of their ports, especially at the point of a Hamas Kalashnikov.

webfusion · 2nd February 2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Militarily you'd have Egypt's modern armed forces pitted against irregulars with no armor or air power to call their own.

Egypt is prohibited by treaty with Israel from having "Armed Forces" in Sinai. They can only have Police Units, in very limited numbers.

http://www.mideasti.org/commentary/e...ry-gaza-border

Steve H · 2nd February 2008, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Egypt is prohibited by treaty with Israel from having "Armed Forces" in Sinai. They can only have Police Units, in very limited numbers.

http://www.mideasti.org/commentary/e...ry-gaza-border

I know, but that treaty was made in the context of Israeli-Egyptian relations and didn't foresee something like a Hamas attack on an Egyptian port 29 years later. You don't really think that treaty would actually prevent Egypt from defending it's own sovereignty do you? I don't and considering the extenuating circumstances if Hamas did make such a move I seriously doubt that Israel would protest all that much.

Abdul Alhazred · 3rd February 2008, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by Steve H

You don't really think that treaty would actually prevent Egypt from defending it's own sovereignty do you?

Depending on the level of cooperation, they might even courteously inform the Israeli authorities before moving in.

1st February 2008, 01:41 PM	#1
Abdul Alhazred Yes, that one. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 5,475	Hamas Protests Egypt Bid to Seal Border Hamas Protests Egypt Bid to Seal Border Quote: RAFAH, Gaza Strip (AP) - Hundreds of Hamas supporters protested on the breached Gaza-Egypt border Friday to demand it remain open, while Egyptian troops poured cement and laid down metal spikes in a new attempt to halt the influx of Gazans. Gaza's Hamas rulers want a role in running the border with Egypt, a demand rejected this week by Egypt and Hamas' rival, moderate Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. It remains unclear whether Hamas will use force to keep the border open. ... OK. Not unanticipated. But there is one detail of the previous story I had not known. Quote: ... The border breach came several days after Israel had imposed a complete blockade on Gaza, with Egyptian backing, in response to a rocket barrage from Gaza on Israeli border towns. ... Emphasis added. Egyptian backing. Am I the only one who missed that important detail, or was it seriously underreported?
	__________________ The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation.

1st February 2008, 01:48 PM	#2
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Originally Posted by Abdul Alhazred Hamas Protests Egypt Bid to Seal Border OK. Not unanticipated. But there is one detail of the previous story I had not known. Emphasis added. Egyptian backing. Am I the only one who missed that important detail, or was it seriously underreported? It is not seriously under-reported. I don't think you are the only person that didn't know....maybe just one of a select few.
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

2nd February 2008, 08:42 AM	#4
FireGarden Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Spannungsbogen -- without a visa Posts: 5,043	Originally Posted by Abdul Alhazred Am I the only one who missed that important detail, or was it seriously underreported? That Gaza has a border with Egypt is well known. And I read a few stories about people finding it difficult to get in and out of Gaza via Rafah. But, yes, I think Egypt's co-operation was under-reported. From the AP, 3 hrs ago: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j..._f_OQD8UI6D8O0 Quote: Zahar said Hamas would not prevent a closure of the border. However, he said in exchange Egypt agreed to allow thousands of Palestinians currently stuck in Egypt to travel to third countries and would coordinate with Hamas on border issues. I guess we'll find out after Sunday, which is the day Egypt has said the border will be closed.
	__________________ When Americans talk about freedom, it’s our secular code word for salvation. There’s no salvation outside the church; there’s no freedom outside the American way of life. -- James Carroll B'tselem Tony Karon's blog Last edited by FireGarden; 2nd February 2008 at 08:44 AM.

2nd February 2008, 09:06 AM	#6
FireGarden Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Spannungsbogen -- without a visa Posts: 5,043	So Egypt's co-operation wasn't complete. Are you saying that they didn't co-operate at all? Like this: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...9D7E73DF8C.htm the day before the wall came down.
	__________________ When Americans talk about freedom, it’s our secular code word for salvation. There’s no salvation outside the church; there’s no freedom outside the American way of life. -- James Carroll B'tselem Tony Karon's blog

2nd February 2008, 09:50 AM	#7
Abdul Alhazred Yes, that one. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 5,475	It's not that the Egyptian government does not "like" the Gazans. Nor that they acquiesce in stuff Israel does. It's the cooperation. I'm usually better informed about what goes on over there. Thanks to all.
	__________________ The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation.

1st February 2008, 10:07 PM	#3
mrbaracuda Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Germany Posts: 3,799	I don't really get it. It's new for you that Egypt backed / backs the blockade or that Egypt helped tearing down parts of the wall? Latter would be new, as for the first: No one seems to like Palestinians outside of their areas.

2nd February 2008, 08:59 AM	#5
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Quote: ...And I read a few stories about people finding it difficult to get in and out of Gaza via Rafah. Like this article? -- http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/03/wo...03mideast.html

2nd February 2008, 06:11 PM	#8
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Quote: I'm usually better informed about what goes on over there. I have a feeling that the HAMAS is seriously thinking of making a move to take over el-Arish. If they can extend their control beyond the Rafah line-in-the-sand, and actually go as far as ElArish, then they would achieve two major objectives: A port and an airfield. The question is, are they capable of such a military maneuver? There is very little information coming out of Sinai. Egyptian leaders are very, very nervous, and don't wish to inflame their own homegrown Muslim Brotherhood.

2nd February 2008, 07:51 PM	#9
Steve H Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 148	Originally Posted by webfusion I have a feeling that the HAMAS is seriously thinking of making a move to take over el-Arish. If they can extend their control beyond the Rafah line-in-the-sand, and actually go as far as ElArish, then they would achieve two major objectives: A port and an airfield. The question is, are they capable of such a military maneuver? There is very little information coming out of Sinai. Egyptian leaders are very, very nervous, and don't wish to inflame their own homegrown Muslim Brotherhood. Interesting speculation but I don't think Hamas would risk pushing Egypt any further than they already have. While the Egyptians were shy about robustly confronting the Palestinians that streamed into Egypt after the Rafah barrier was knocked down, a move on el-Arish would be a different story. Militarily you'd have Egypt's modern armed forces pitted against irregulars with no armor or air power to call their own. While I agree that Egypt is very nervous about the Muslim Brotherhood I don't feel they're so nervous that they'd cede control of one of their ports, especially at the point of a Hamas Kalashnikov.
Steve H Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 148

2nd February 2008, 08:12 PM	#10
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Quote: Militarily you'd have Egypt's modern armed forces pitted against irregulars with no armor or air power to call their own. Egypt is prohibited by treaty with Israel from having "Armed Forces" in Sinai. They can only have Police Units, in very limited numbers. http://www.mideasti.org/commentary/e...ry-gaza-border
	Last edited by webfusion; 2nd February 2008 at 08:14 PM.

2nd February 2008, 09:37 PM	#11
Steve H Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 148	Originally Posted by webfusion Egypt is prohibited by treaty with Israel from having "Armed Forces" in Sinai. They can only have Police Units, in very limited numbers. http://www.mideasti.org/commentary/e...ry-gaza-border I know, but that treaty was made in the context of Israeli-Egyptian relations and didn't foresee something like a Hamas attack on an Egyptian port 29 years later. You don't really think that treaty would actually prevent Egypt from defending it's own sovereignty do you? I don't and considering the extenuating circumstances if Hamas did make such a move I seriously doubt that Israel would protest all that much.
Steve H Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 148	Last edited by Steve H; 2nd February 2008 at 09:38 PM. Reason: Fixed quote

3rd February 2008, 06:35 AM	#12
Abdul Alhazred Yes, that one. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 5,475	Originally Posted by Steve H You don't really think that treaty would actually prevent Egypt from defending it's own sovereignty do you? Depending on the level of cooperation, they might even courteously inform the Israeli authorities before moving in.
	__________________ The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation.